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[Discussion] Sandbox is the future of gaming, and ESO is way behind on that.
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kieso✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know any sandbox game besides UO and Asherons call 1 that did well. Every other sandbox was pretty mediocre.0 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would say that sandbox is the past of gaming .. where is this huge trend towards sandbox gaming? I don't even think a true sandbox game would work anymore people just want to grief people and sandbox games are destroyed without a community.
DayZ, Rust, Minecraft, Everquest Next, Archeage, tons of indie developers, Pathfinder, Star Citizen, H1Z1.
Sandbox is not the past. It's coming, and you cannot stop it. We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready.
Sandbox games aren't a new thing. Why you seem to think it's some gaming innovation that is on the horizon is beyond me.
I didn't say it's new. I said it's the future. The future isn't always new.
I'm excited to watch you eat those words.
You'll be waiting a while lol. Itl hold it's niche, but I wouldn't put any faith towards an entire shift in the industry.Edited by BBSooner on July 23, 2014 2:01PM0 -
Delith✭✭✭✭I don't know any sandbox game besides UO and Asherons call 1 that did well. Every other sandbox was pretty mediocre.
EVE regularly has 30,000-40,000+ people logged on simultaneously.
The reason you don't see more successful sandboxes is because most game publishers are too afraid to generate a game that holds a medium sized and loyal fanbase, and instead opt for as many millions as possible for a mediocre game that appeals to the lowest common denominator.
If they were to actually generate a real, functioning online sandbox, people would play it. To date, all we really get are crappy half assed attempts by indie developers.
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Gix✭✭✭✭
That's far from being true.stefanosbekrwb17_ESO wrote: »Sandbox is the future of gaming
There are subtle yet important differences between player choice, non-linearity and sandbox.
A sandbox is just a toy (virtual in this context) to play in. I want a video game with clear rules, challenges and player interaction.2 -
Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Nah, that is not true at all in my opinion.
In the end it is all a matter of taste, there are plenty who like sandbox games , but that are plenty who enjoy the tons of other different kinds also.
If ESO was the best themepark MMO , then the people that enjoy themepark MMOs would keep it going , the issue is that many dont think it is.Sandbox:
Let players interact with one another beyond facile and shallow grouping methods. Let us kill and loot one another. Let us eat each other's bodies. Give us a complicated housing and decoration system. Let us break into one another's houses. Give us the ability to steal from each other. Let us turn people into vampires or werewolves against their will. Create systems to punish and ostracize people who do bad things, including bounties, jail time, and a guards system. Make the economy ENTIRELY player based so that gear lost on death is easily replaced by knowing a good black smith. Force us to actually PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE by making it impossible not to. Make us eat and drink to stay alive. Add in heat and cold exposure. Give the criminal element of the game an outlaw city since they'll be shunned from real towns.
This here is an example.
I for one would unsub without even looking behind if they made ESO even close to many of these ideas.
You'd quit the game if they added an option at character creation labeled "hardcore" and absolutely none of the above had any impact on you whatsoever? Just phase people who want to play this style together, and phase those who don't together. Tada. Everyone gets what they want.
TES is about immersion. Not being able to be anything but a hero is stupid.
If it was an option then that is different. But some things people don't realize would ruin anothers experience, sometimes does. If they are phased that is hunky dory.Go play ArchAge or Black Desert then. Leave ESO and its lore to us.
Elder Scrolls lore lends itself very well to a Sandbox MMO.... I've always thought so since I first played Morrowind. I hope the Dev's keep adding sandbox elements to the game 50+.. The theme-park leveling portion won't be too relevant over the long term...
And I would venture to say, may be wrong, but I'm guessing the majority of those who loved Morrowind may be inclined to be open to your idea, while those who rave instead about Skyrim are errrrr, a 'different' sort of
player Enkil
.
I love Morrowind and I don't want that....
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Delith✭✭✭✭I wouldn't want a 100% sandbox MMO, though. That would get so boring so fast.
A mix is indeed probably a good thing. Having quests with the ability to make buildings that actually *matter* (as opposed to 'a cool place to hang out with your friends') will bring out a lot of interesting stuff.
I look forward to the future of sandbox gaming - it will be so much more interesting than 'theme park'. Especially when players can do things like make a dungeon.
Pete: "June - wanna do a dungeon?"
June: "I've been hearing about a new one by Randmar!"
Pete: "Holy crap - I remember his Crypts of Blood dungeon! Amazing!"
June: "This one has under five hundred votes so it's not got a rating yet but when it does I'm betting it's going to be another eight plus!"
Pete: "Lets go!"
(Note: Because this is an MMO, June is played by a guy in a wig with fake breasts.)
Sounds like you want a player available creation kit, not a sandbox experience.
A player available creation kit is part of what defines sandbox, which is just a label for letting players interact with the world in a way more meaningful than "kill this thing, and loot it."
Mmm, no, a theme park MMO can have as player foundry and still remain firmly a theme parkI would say that sandbox is the past of gaming .. where is this huge trend towards sandbox gaming? I don't even think a true sandbox game would work anymore people just want to grief people and sandbox games are destroyed without a community.
DayZ, Rust, Minecraft, Everquest Next, Archeage, tons of indie developers, Pathfinder, Star Citizen, H1Z1.
Sandbox is not the past. It's coming, and you cannot stop it. We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready.
Sandbox games aren't a new thing. Why you seem to think it's some gaming innovation that is on the horizon is beyond me.
I didn't say it's new. I said it's the future. The future isn't always new.
I'm excited to watch you eat those words.
You'll be waiting a while lol. Itl hold it's niche, but I wouldn't put any faith towards an entire shift in the industry.
Again, Star CItizen: $50,000,000. Crowd sourced. No publisher.
People want emergent gameplay. We will have it, whether the big industry names want to give it to us or not. It's happening, and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it besides delay the inevitable.0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭I would say that sandbox is the past of gaming .. where is this huge trend towards sandbox gaming? I don't even think a true sandbox game would work anymore people just want to grief people and sandbox games are destroyed without a community.
DayZ, Rust, Minecraft, Everquest Next, Archeage, tons of indie developers, Pathfinder, Star Citizen, H1Z1, Shroud of the Avatar,
Sandbox is not the past. It's coming back, and you cannot stop it. We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready. Themepark is on the way out.
If all those game together get 1/4 of WoWs subs I'll eat my words. I liked sandbox games I just don't see them working anymore.
Trying to recreate the success of World of Warcraft instead of creating their own unique worlds with their own rules is exactly why almost every modern MMO toils day in and day out for a fraction of the WoW subs, as people play the game and realize they have already done this in another world with another engine.
A recreation of WoW is never going to have the same pull WoW had as far as subscribers go. It's not going to happen, and developers need to stop trying to make it happen. We've already played that game.
You said "We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready. Themepark is on the way out." .. well apparently by far the majority of people playing MMOs today are not "tired of the same nonsense over and over again". Add up all the subs for all the sandbox games and you end up with 1/100 of what the themepark games have .. that doesn't sound to me like the way out.
If what you are saying is true WoW people would be tired of the same old nonsense and would be running to these game. The truth is a very small percentage of the MMO population are nostalgic for something that will never again be what it was.0 -
I wouldn't want a 100% sandbox MMO, though. That would get so boring so fast.
A mix is indeed probably a good thing. Having quests with the ability to make buildings that actually *matter* (as opposed to 'a cool place to hang out with your friends') will bring out a lot of interesting stuff.
I look forward to the future of sandbox gaming - it will be so much more interesting than 'theme park'. Especially when players can do things like make a dungeon.
Pete: "June - wanna do a dungeon?"
June: "I've been hearing about a new one by Randmar!"
Pete: "Holy crap - I remember his Crypts of Blood dungeon! Amazing!"
June: "This one has under five hundred votes so it's not got a rating yet but when it does I'm betting it's going to be another eight plus!"
Pete: "Lets go!"
(Note: Because this is an MMO, June is played by a guy in a wig with fake breasts.)
Sounds like you want a player available creation kit, not a sandbox experience.
A player available creation kit is part of what defines sandbox, which is just a label for letting players interact with the world in a way more meaningful than "kill this thing, and loot it."
Mmm, no, a theme park MMO can have as player foundry and still remain firmly a theme parkI would say that sandbox is the past of gaming .. where is this huge trend towards sandbox gaming? I don't even think a true sandbox game would work anymore people just want to grief people and sandbox games are destroyed without a community.
DayZ, Rust, Minecraft, Everquest Next, Archeage, tons of indie developers, Pathfinder, Star Citizen, H1Z1.
Sandbox is not the past. It's coming, and you cannot stop it. We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready.
Sandbox games aren't a new thing. Why you seem to think it's some gaming innovation that is on the horizon is beyond me.
I didn't say it's new. I said it's the future. The future isn't always new.
I'm excited to watch you eat those words.
You'll be waiting a while lol. Itl hold it's niche, but I wouldn't put any faith towards an entire shift in the industry.
Again, Star CItizen: $50,000,000. Crowd sourced. No publisher.
People want emergent gameplay. We will have it, whether the big industry names want to give it to us or not. It's happening, and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it besides delay the inevitable.
I am all for those type games being developed. It just isn't going to be this game.0 -
Delith✭✭✭✭kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »I wouldn't want a 100% sandbox MMO, though. That would get so boring so fast.
A mix is indeed probably a good thing. Having quests with the ability to make buildings that actually *matter* (as opposed to 'a cool place to hang out with your friends') will bring out a lot of interesting stuff.
I look forward to the future of sandbox gaming - it will be so much more interesting than 'theme park'. Especially when players can do things like make a dungeon.
Pete: "June - wanna do a dungeon?"
June: "I've been hearing about a new one by Randmar!"
Pete: "Holy crap - I remember his Crypts of Blood dungeon! Amazing!"
June: "This one has under five hundred votes so it's not got a rating yet but when it does I'm betting it's going to be another eight plus!"
Pete: "Lets go!"
(Note: Because this is an MMO, June is played by a guy in a wig with fake breasts.)
Sounds like you want a player available creation kit, not a sandbox experience.
A player available creation kit is part of what defines sandbox, which is just a label for letting players interact with the world in a way more meaningful than "kill this thing, and loot it."
Mmm, no, a theme park MMO can have as player foundry and still remain firmly a theme parkI would say that sandbox is the past of gaming .. where is this huge trend towards sandbox gaming? I don't even think a true sandbox game would work anymore people just want to grief people and sandbox games are destroyed without a community.
DayZ, Rust, Minecraft, Everquest Next, Archeage, tons of indie developers, Pathfinder, Star Citizen, H1Z1.
Sandbox is not the past. It's coming, and you cannot stop it. We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready.
Sandbox games aren't a new thing. Why you seem to think it's some gaming innovation that is on the horizon is beyond me.
I didn't say it's new. I said it's the future. The future isn't always new.
I'm excited to watch you eat those words.
You'll be waiting a while lol. Itl hold it's niche, but I wouldn't put any faith towards an entire shift in the industry.
Again, Star CItizen: $50,000,000. Crowd sourced. No publisher.
People want emergent gameplay. We will have it, whether the big industry names want to give it to us or not. It's happening, and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it besides delay the inevitable.
I am all for those type games being developed. It just isn't going to be this game.
No, it probably won't be. I do like the baby steps back towards this with the justice system, though. I appreciate any change we can get in the industry.0 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wouldn't want a 100% sandbox MMO, though. That would get so boring so fast.
A mix is indeed probably a good thing. Having quests with the ability to make buildings that actually *matter* (as opposed to 'a cool place to hang out with your friends') will bring out a lot of interesting stuff.
I look forward to the future of sandbox gaming - it will be so much more interesting than 'theme park'. Especially when players can do things like make a dungeon.
Pete: "June - wanna do a dungeon?"
June: "I've been hearing about a new one by Randmar!"
Pete: "Holy crap - I remember his Crypts of Blood dungeon! Amazing!"
June: "This one has under five hundred votes so it's not got a rating yet but when it does I'm betting it's going to be another eight plus!"
Pete: "Lets go!"
(Note: Because this is an MMO, June is played by a guy in a wig with fake breasts.)
Sounds like you want a player available creation kit, not a sandbox experience.
A player available creation kit is part of what defines sandbox, which is just a label for letting players interact with the world in a way more meaningful than "kill this thing, and loot it."
Mmm, no, a theme park MMO can have as player foundry and still remain firmly a theme parkI would say that sandbox is the past of gaming .. where is this huge trend towards sandbox gaming? I don't even think a true sandbox game would work anymore people just want to grief people and sandbox games are destroyed without a community.
DayZ, Rust, Minecraft, Everquest Next, Archeage, tons of indie developers, Pathfinder, Star Citizen, H1Z1.
Sandbox is not the past. It's coming, and you cannot stop it. We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready.
Sandbox games aren't a new thing. Why you seem to think it's some gaming innovation that is on the horizon is beyond me.
I didn't say it's new. I said it's the future. The future isn't always new.
I'm excited to watch you eat those words.
You'll be waiting a while lol. Itl hold it's niche, but I wouldn't put any faith towards an entire shift in the industry.
Again, Star CItizen: $50,000,000. Crowd sourced. No publisher.
People want emergent gameplay. We will have it, whether the big industry names want to give it to us or not. It's happening, and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it besides delay the inevitable.
Star Citizen looks amazing, I'm buying it, but I'm not naive enough to think that it will pave the way for decades of games. 50m is a drop in the bucket for the kind of money thrown around.
Edit: It also has being space-based going for it. The setting is a selling point for a large portion of its supporters, likely.Edited by BBSooner on July 23, 2014 2:10PM1 -
Delith✭✭✭✭I would say that sandbox is the past of gaming .. where is this huge trend towards sandbox gaming? I don't even think a true sandbox game would work anymore people just want to grief people and sandbox games are destroyed without a community.
DayZ, Rust, Minecraft, Everquest Next, Archeage, tons of indie developers, Pathfinder, Star Citizen, H1Z1, Shroud of the Avatar,
Sandbox is not the past. It's coming back, and you cannot stop it. We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready. Themepark is on the way out.
If all those game together get 1/4 of WoWs subs I'll eat my words. I liked sandbox games I just don't see them working anymore.
Trying to recreate the success of World of Warcraft instead of creating their own unique worlds with their own rules is exactly why almost every modern MMO toils day in and day out for a fraction of the WoW subs, as people play the game and realize they have already done this in another world with another engine.
A recreation of WoW is never going to have the same pull WoW had as far as subscribers go. It's not going to happen, and developers need to stop trying to make it happen. We've already played that game.
You said "We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready. Themepark is on the way out." .. well apparently by far the majority of people playing MMOs today are not "tired of the same nonsense over and over again". Add up all the subs for all the sandbox games and you end up with 1/100 of what the themepark games have .. that doesn't sound to me like the way out.
If what you are saying is true WoW people would be tired of the same old nonsense and would be running to these game. The truth is a very small percentage of the MMO population are nostalgic for something that will never again be what it was.
Check out the turnover and retention rate for subs of most modern games. People just run between them, annihilate the content, get bored, and move to the next one.
They may have subs now, but will they have them six months from now? And does the cost of continually generating more static content to be conquered and invalidated with future patches make sense when that same development time could be spent on developing systems and mechanics to encourage emergent gameplay with more replayability?
Why are developers spending millions making content that will be irrelevant in a month? It makes no sense.1 -
kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »I wouldn't want a 100% sandbox MMO, though. That would get so boring so fast.
A mix is indeed probably a good thing. Having quests with the ability to make buildings that actually *matter* (as opposed to 'a cool place to hang out with your friends') will bring out a lot of interesting stuff.
I look forward to the future of sandbox gaming - it will be so much more interesting than 'theme park'. Especially when players can do things like make a dungeon.
Pete: "June - wanna do a dungeon?"
June: "I've been hearing about a new one by Randmar!"
Pete: "Holy crap - I remember his Crypts of Blood dungeon! Amazing!"
June: "This one has under five hundred votes so it's not got a rating yet but when it does I'm betting it's going to be another eight plus!"
Pete: "Lets go!"
(Note: Because this is an MMO, June is played by a guy in a wig with fake breasts.)
Sounds like you want a player available creation kit, not a sandbox experience.
A player available creation kit is part of what defines sandbox, which is just a label for letting players interact with the world in a way more meaningful than "kill this thing, and loot it."
Mmm, no, a theme park MMO can have as player foundry and still remain firmly a theme parkI would say that sandbox is the past of gaming .. where is this huge trend towards sandbox gaming? I don't even think a true sandbox game would work anymore people just want to grief people and sandbox games are destroyed without a community.
DayZ, Rust, Minecraft, Everquest Next, Archeage, tons of indie developers, Pathfinder, Star Citizen, H1Z1.
Sandbox is not the past. It's coming, and you cannot stop it. We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready.
Sandbox games aren't a new thing. Why you seem to think it's some gaming innovation that is on the horizon is beyond me.
I didn't say it's new. I said it's the future. The future isn't always new.
I'm excited to watch you eat those words.
You'll be waiting a while lol. Itl hold it's niche, but I wouldn't put any faith towards an entire shift in the industry.
Again, Star CItizen: $50,000,000. Crowd sourced. No publisher.
People want emergent gameplay. We will have it, whether the big industry names want to give it to us or not. It's happening, and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it besides delay the inevitable.
I am all for those type games being developed. It just isn't going to be this game.
No, it probably won't be. I do like the baby steps back towards this with the justice system, though. I appreciate any change we can get in the industry.
I'll try anything once. Though I am reserving judgement on the justice system.
And I just saw a greenlight MMO on Steam this morning that has many of the elements you wish. *goes to look*
edit: Ah yeah it is DayZ....don't know why I couldn't remember that. I'm old!!!
Edited by kassandratheclericb14_ESO on July 23, 2014 2:09PM1 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭I would say that sandbox is the past of gaming .. where is this huge trend towards sandbox gaming? I don't even think a true sandbox game would work anymore people just want to grief people and sandbox games are destroyed without a community.
DayZ, Rust, Minecraft, Everquest Next, Archeage, tons of indie developers, Pathfinder, Star Citizen, H1Z1, Shroud of the Avatar,
Sandbox is not the past. It's coming back, and you cannot stop it. We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready. Themepark is on the way out.
If all those game together get 1/4 of WoWs subs I'll eat my words. I liked sandbox games I just don't see them working anymore.
Trying to recreate the success of World of Warcraft instead of creating their own unique worlds with their own rules is exactly why almost every modern MMO toils day in and day out for a fraction of the WoW subs, as people play the game and realize they have already done this in another world with another engine.
A recreation of WoW is never going to have the same pull WoW had as far as subscribers go. It's not going to happen, and developers need to stop trying to make it happen. We've already played that game.
You said "We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready. Themepark is on the way out." .. well apparently by far the majority of people playing MMOs today are not "tired of the same nonsense over and over again". Add up all the subs for all the sandbox games and you end up with 1/100 of what the themepark games have .. that doesn't sound to me like the way out.
If what you are saying is true WoW people would be tired of the same old nonsense and would be running to these game. The truth is a very small percentage of the MMO population are nostalgic for something that will never again be what it was.
Check out the turnover and retention rate for subs of most modern games. People just run between them, annihilate the content, get bored, and move to the next one.
They may have subs now, but will they have them six months from now? And does the cost of continually generating more static content to be conquered and invalidated with future patches make sense when that same development time could be spent on developing systems and mechanics to encourage emergent gameplay with more replayability?
Why are developers spending millions making content that will be irrelevant in a month? It makes no sense.
I know you want to ignore WoW but it is thempark and has retained more subs than every other MMO combined. I agree it won't happen again but if people truly hated that idea it wouldn't be holding on to 7+ million subs and every game wouldn't be trying to copy it.
What sandbox games are holding on to huge sub numbers? Also calling minecraft an MMO is really pushing the definition of an MMO.1 -
indytims_ESO✭✭✭✭The people who struggle to make sure sandbox elements are left out are the reason MMOs are littered with the exact same experience, over and over again, until everyone get's bored and quits.
Sandbox usually comes with risk, and the vast majority of MMO gamers today are risk averse, terrified of potential loss, even if it's in a virtual world that has no real impact on their actual life, and they have multiple methods of recourse. There's a reason death in ESO is nearly MEANINGLESS. Pay a repair fee, walk back. Who's afraid of death?
Good luck getting them to accept the game as it should be. There's a reason ZOS made it the way they have, and have to slowly introduce emergent gameplay in the form of the justice system. And guess what? People are already bitching about that.
They want a mindless grind, from point a to point b. If you try to give them anything else, the cold dead husk of a body they purport to inhabit starts to flail wildly until they turn blue and start screaming.
Ultima Online had it perfect 17 years ago, and no developer except CCP (Eve) has had the balls to make a knock off that was worth a damn yet. We get half assed indie ventures with incompetent developers, but no AAA company has actually tried to do the same thing again.
It's sad as hell.
Sandbox:
Let players interact with one another beyond facile and shallow grouping methods. Let us kill and loot one another. Let us eat each other's bodies. Give us a complicated housing and decoration system. Let us break into one another's houses. Give us the ability to steal from each other. Let us turn people into vampires or werewolves against their will. Create systems to punish and ostracize people who do bad things, including bounties, jail time, and a guards system. Make the economy ENTIRELY player based so that gear lost on death is easily replaced by knowing a good black smith. Force us to actually PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE by making it impossible not to. Make us eat and drink to stay alive. Add in heat and cold exposure. Give the criminal element of the game an outlaw city since they'll be shunned from real towns.
It's not surprise to me that you list the two games that I totally did NOT enjoy - UO and EVE - as your shining examples of 'having it perfect' when it came to sandbox games.
No thanks.
Simply put - the style of play you mention just isn't what the majority of gamers want. It has nothing to do with 'risk' or anything like that. People enjoy gaming for various reasons, and the reasons you list - while important to you - simply aren't important to a wider array of gamers.
EVE is still going strong - and I invite you to go back to EVE if that is your preferred style of gaming. Regardless whether you do or not, I like ESO just fine. To me, it is highly unlikely and incredibly unwise to try to encourage a company with a specific type of game into another type of game. ESO isn't meant to be 'sandbox'. Perhaps they'll add some elements of that in the future (we don't know 100% what the justice system will entail or how it will be implemented), and that could be an example of a 'sandbox step'. But ultimately, a sandbox game should be designed that way from the ground up - just as EVE and UO were.
Just my 2 gold, though.
1 -
MonkeyAssassin24✭✭✭Sorry but all I could think of when I saw the title to this thread was:
"Hey JD how's the new game coming along?"
"It's the future of gaming...people will bow to it..."On second thought, let's not go to the forums. 'Tis a silly place.0 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Nah, that is not true at all in my opinion.
In the end it is all a matter of taste, there are plenty who like sandbox games , but that are plenty who enjoy the tons of other different kinds also.
If ESO was the best themepark MMO , then the people that enjoy themepark MMOs would keep it going , the issue is that many dont think it is.Sandbox:
Let players interact with one another beyond facile and shallow grouping methods. Let us kill and loot one another. Let us eat each other's bodies. Give us a complicated housing and decoration system. Let us break into one another's houses. Give us the ability to steal from each other. Let us turn people into vampires or werewolves against their will. Create systems to punish and ostracize people who do bad things, including bounties, jail time, and a guards system. Make the economy ENTIRELY player based so that gear lost on death is easily replaced by knowing a good black smith. Force us to actually PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE by making it impossible not to. Make us eat and drink to stay alive. Add in heat and cold exposure. Give the criminal element of the game an outlaw city since they'll be shunned from real towns.
This here is an example.
I for one would unsub without even looking behind if they made ESO even close to many of these ideas.
You'd quit the game if they added an option at character creation labeled "hardcore" and absolutely none of the above had any impact on you whatsoever? Just phase people who want to play this style together, and phase those who don't together. Tada. Everyone gets what they want.
TES is about immersion. Not being able to be anything but a hero is stupid.
To you , if there is one thing i never even tried in ESO is immersion. Im all for it on normal TES games , but this is also a MMO , to even play in first person is to weaken yourself to what is behind you.
The issue i have is , i dont believe zen can add this system on just another layer , you are talking about making MAJOR changes and i mean the MAJOR part , that should only work for some chars , that is not an easy task , it is not some hardcore mode where you lose your char on death, your ideas go FAR beyond that.
The lines will blur and when they do it will become an issue to many.I would say that sandbox is the past of gaming .. where is this huge trend towards sandbox gaming? I don't even think a true sandbox game would work anymore people just want to grief people and sandbox games are destroyed without a community.
DayZ, Rust, Minecraft, Everquest Next, Archeage, tons of indie developers, Pathfinder, Star Citizen, H1Z1, Shroud of the Avatar,
Sandbox is not the past. It's coming back, and you cannot stop it. We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready. Themepark is on the way out.
If all those game together get 1/4 of WoWs subs I'll eat my words. I liked sandbox games I just don't see them working anymore.
Trying to recreate the success of World of Warcraft instead of creating their own unique worlds with their own rules is exactly why almost every modern MMO toils day in and day out for a fraction of the WoW subs, as people play the game and realize they have already done this in another world with another engine.
A recreation of WoW is never going to have the same pull WoW had as far as subscribers go. It's not going to happen, and developers need to stop trying to make it happen. We've already played that game.
You said "We're tired of the same nonsense over and over again. Get ready. Themepark is on the way out." .. well apparently by far the majority of people playing MMOs today are not "tired of the same nonsense over and over again". Add up all the subs for all the sandbox games and you end up with 1/100 of what the themepark games have .. that doesn't sound to me like the way out.
If what you are saying is true WoW people would be tired of the same old nonsense and would be running to these game. The truth is a very small percentage of the MMO population are nostalgic for something that will never again be what it was.
Check out the turnover and retention rate for subs of most modern games. People just run between them, annihilate the content, get bored, and move to the next one.
They may have subs now, but will they have them six months from now? And does the cost of continually generating more static content to be conquered and invalidated with future patches make sense when that same development time could be spent on developing systems and mechanics to encourage emergent gameplay with more replayability?
Why are developers spending millions making content that will be irrelevant in a month? It makes no sense.
Just because people want change , it does not mean they want change in your direction.
If the game had open PvP , if i had to feed my char , if people could steal things from me or my house...
All those things are beyond ridiculous for me to deal with in a game. I play to relax and have fun , not to have real life 2.0 TES version personally.
There is no way i would remain paying for this.
Your posts just goes back to my original post:Nox_Aeterna wrote: »In the end it is all a matter of taste, there are plenty who like sandbox games , but that are plenty who enjoy the tons of other different kinds also.
If ESO was the best themepark MMO , then the people that enjoy themepark MMOs would keep it going , the issue is that many dont think it is.
There are many players that do seek sandbox games , i do also (only single players , i would never play a sandbox with anyone but friends) , but that does not mean i want ESO to become a sandbox at all , im perfectly fine with the themepark here.
Just need to add more features.Edited by Nox_Aeterna on July 23, 2014 3:42PM"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor1 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭Sandbox is not the future. Brain wave gaming is.
ESO is wayyy behind that. Just look at Sword Art Online.
Stop taunting me! Ever since I watched that anime and looked up "how close are VRMMORPGs" its been nothing but torture. its not even funny! I know technology is fast growing and all but....they make it sound it may appear in my lifetime or a little after it!
I mean, its telling me that I might see it one day....or die right before I get the chance to. I mean....its. right. THERE.
(ok, funs over)
On topic though, I really enjoy the concept of sandbox MMORPGs, but I really can't envision how they would be implemented. Apart from not being able visualize exactly what would be available to me, this is a themepark MMO and we are already separated enough with our choices at the hand of phasing.
Apart from fluff things like housing, I don't know what else can have a lasting impact on my player experience that I can enjoy with other players.0