Maintenance for the week of March 16:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – March 16
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 18, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – March 16
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 18, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
So my friends all rolled nightblades...
jrgray93
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
✭✭
TL;DR - opinionated rant on how class balance is making things difficult for myself and friends.
EDIT: I'm very much open to suggestions to pass on to my friends. I guess I'm less qualified to speak out for NB balance than, say, templar balance, but I'm just going by my experiences. We're going to try out some new builds and see how it goes.
It is a sad day. I convinced another friend to pick up the game (that's 5 now). He rolled a nightblade. My head hurts.
We now have a templar healer (me), a DK tank, and three stamina build nightblades. Our AoE DPS is so bad, I have to deal supplemental DPS as a healer, and I've built my alt bar to also restore tons of stamina to party members. It even makes it harder to manage magicka because a lack of AoE makes trash mob encounters require more healing for longer periods.
We do okay in most dungeons but we are about to start veteran dungeons and I don't have high hopes for the results.
Honestly, part of our problem is build issues and a general lack of skill from our DPS. Our fourth slot is sometimes filled by random people, which is where we have better luck, but our one friend is just terrible. Almost to the point of it being comedic. Our third, and regularly attending DPS, is not bad, but not exactly impressive either. Better functioning build / class balance would sure go a long way to alleviating our problems. Until then, the tank and I pretty much carry our group.
Edited by jrgray93 on July 21, 2014 7:59PM EDIT: I'm very much open to suggestions to pass on to my friends. I guess I'm less qualified to speak out for NB balance than, say, templar balance, but I'm just going by my experiences. We're going to try out some new builds and see how it goes.
It is a sad day. I convinced another friend to pick up the game (that's 5 now). He rolled a nightblade. My head hurts.
We now have a templar healer (me), a DK tank, and three stamina build nightblades. Our AoE DPS is so bad, I have to deal supplemental DPS as a healer, and I've built my alt bar to also restore tons of stamina to party members. It even makes it harder to manage magicka because a lack of AoE makes trash mob encounters require more healing for longer periods.
We do okay in most dungeons but we are about to start veteran dungeons and I don't have high hopes for the results.
Honestly, part of our problem is build issues and a general lack of skill from our DPS. Our fourth slot is sometimes filled by random people, which is where we have better luck, but our one friend is just terrible. Almost to the point of it being comedic. Our third, and regularly attending DPS, is not bad, but not exactly impressive either. Better functioning build / class balance would sure go a long way to alleviating our problems. Until then, the tank and I pretty much carry our group.
EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job
3
-
Umm there is no problem with AOE and NB class that only problem is that they chose the wrong abilities they need to get into the siphoning tree and I will guarantee they will handle AOE much better and if you can get one into Bows all the better. I ran FG vet with nothing but NB and I was the NB healer and NP 2 of us had siphon and an archer we owned that place with ease.3 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭Those NB AOE DPS that are Stamina builds should have zero issue doing decent to good DPS. As a NB they should be pairing any AOE ability with Power Extraction and Veil of Blades Ultimate for holy crap damage. It doesn't matter if they're Dual Wield, 2H or Bow AOE, it boosts it up a huge amount. Lack of skill on their part is nothing ZoS can fix, so how does your post reflect on Class balancing?
More to point, are you saying that bads only play NB, like we're the equivalent of WoW Huntards? Just trying to get a read of what you're getting at with that post. For the record I'm very good at NB and was really good at my Hunter in WoW, and even I hated Huntards when I played lol.2 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭The problem isn't Nightblade, it's stamina. A Nightblade mage is pretty good at AOE dps. Just tell your friends to get a destro staff, sap power (power extraction), impulse (pulsar), volcanic rune, and veil of blades (shadow ultimate morph), and you're good to go.0
-
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nightblades, being the closest thing to a 'rogue' archetype, draw a lot of players. Personally templar and nightblade are my preferred classes in ESO and I still havent touched sorc or dragonknight, i just have no desire to play those classes.
That said, there's no reason your group cant function with a lot of nightblades as DPS, or even as healers or tanks - they just need to get their builds worked out.
The bloodmage/warlock build for nightblades is extremely fun and effective, so if even one of your nightblades is willing to go with that setup it will help you out a lot. The build uses restoration staff on one bar, destruction staff on the other. Using the restoration staff, you apply cripple for damage over time, you can stack entropy with it as well, then you alternate between light attack (left click) and immediately hit funnel health to cast, then immediately hit a light attack again, rinse and repeat. The funnel health cast will clip your light attack staff animation, making it fire off instantly rather than having a huge windback.
Using the destruction staff you combine power extraction to deal aoe damage and boost your weapon power massively for 30 seconds, then spam impulse for aoe damage.
If your nightblades insist on playing stamina builds, have one of them go archer and use bombard for aoe control, and the others use power extraction and whirlwind/cleave for aoe damage.
PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭If there is one thing a Stamina NB can do well it is AoE you friends are just not good.0
-
Mud_Puppy✭✭✭Those NB AOE DPS that are Stamina builds should have zero issue doing decent to good DPS. As a NB they should be pairing any AOE ability with Power Extraction and Veil of Blades Ultimate for holy crap damage. It doesn't matter if they're Dual Wield, 2H or Bow AOE, it boosts it up a huge amount. Lack of skill on their part is nothing ZoS can fix, so how does your post reflect on Class balancing?
More to point, are you saying that bads only play NB, like we're the equivalent of WoW Huntards? Just trying to get a read of what you're getting at with that post. For the record I'm very good at NB and was really good at my Hunter in WoW, and even I hated Huntards when I played lol.
So much truth./kill0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emphasis on the stamina being the issue. Nightblades tend to attract players who want the whole bow / rogue experience, which is primarily what I was trying to get at. I see people complain about nightblades and stamina builds more than anything else on this forum. Usually, they say the best thing to do is get a destro staff or play a sorcerer. I'm actually surprised at all of the negative feedback so far to this thread. I also find it funny that the proposed solution is "get a destro staff," as if that wasn't the entire point of what I'm saying.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭Emphasis on the stamina being the issue. Nightblades tend to attract players who want the whole bow / rogue experience, which is primarily what I was trying to get at. I see people complain about nightblades and stamina builds more than anything else on this forum. Usually, they say the best thing to do is get a destro staff or play a sorcerer. I'm actually surprised at all of the negative feedback so far to this thread. I also find it funny that the proposed solution is "get a destro staff," as if that wasn't the entire point of what I'm saying.
Stamina should not be an issue is what people are saying. Wirlwind + power extraction with a halfway geared NB and you are doing comparable DPS to destro builds.0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do appreciate the build suggestions. I'll pass them on.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unfortunately we have to work with what the game gives us, and that's destro/light armor.
The thing is, stamina builds can be made to work, but you CANNOT go pure stamina. You -have- to hybridize and use only one or two weapon abilities and the rest class abilities, and you have to split your attributes between both resource pools.
Nightblades have stamina builds better than anyone else right now because of siphoning attacks. Put that on your bar and you'll never want for resources (both magicka and stamina).
Things are definitely getting better though, it's just happening at a very slow pace. In the next patch (1.3), the new crafted set bonuses will be lowering spell crit for magicka builds, but melee/stamina builds will be gaining 8% more crit chance with the right sets - up to 16% additional critical chance total from set bonuses alone. Looks like with the right setup we'll be running massive crit with weapon builds now, the trick is to make your build work around that.Edited by Lynx7386 on July 21, 2014 6:13PMPS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0 -
Saet✭✭✭For my NB AOE build I use the 2h cleave with the morph that gives more ultimate, siphoning strikes, power extraction, impale and veil of blades. I also had some defensive skill that I dont remember right now. I can pretty easily solo 6 or so v12 mobs at once. I'm able to use the ultimate every group and every once in a while I pop a heal pot but thats if there are a couple that tend to stay at range. To counter ranged attacks run around a corner so they have to come to you.Saet - stam nb
Hordak - magicka nb
Demigorgon - stam sorc0 -
Vuron✭✭✭✭✭Emphasis on the stamina being the issue. Nightblades tend to attract players who want the whole bow / rogue experience, which is primarily what I was trying to get at. I see people complain about nightblades and stamina builds more than anything else on this forum. Usually, they say the best thing to do is get a destro staff or play a sorcerer. I'm actually surprised at all of the negative feedback so far to this thread. I also find it funny that the proposed solution is "get a destro staff," as if that wasn't the entire point of what I'm saying.
You seem to be correct that the NB class seemed to attract people that wanted to use a bow a second, or even a primary weapon.
I leveled a NB wearing medium armor and using DW from 1-VR12 with no issues and found it pretty easy. The big difference was that I had 0 points or enchants in Stamina and had everything in Magicka using class abilities. I learned in beta to dump the bow and can use either resto, or destro as my 2nd weapon.
Even though I'm magicka based, I'm not a "mage" or "caster" NB, as most of my skills are melee range skills.
Of course, I throw all this out the window and go full light armor, resto-mage NB when doing VR dungeons or trials.
0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's all about siphoning power from your enemies man... My NB friend and I both favor greatswords as our weapons of choice, dispite their issues compared to the other weapons. We run vet dungeons together, and we are both v12. Power Extraction is awesome, and it is interesting that a class stereotyped for being a single target assassin actually craves grouped mobs due to it.
Just a bit of advice
It may not be the way they want to play their character though...
Edited by Shunravi on July 21, 2014 6:26PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭Not to mention with passives you build ultimate faster with power extraction than anything else and NB's have about the best AE ultimate you can ask for.0
-
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭
Nightblade archers can do around 1500 AOE dps easily and that's with siphoning attacks toggled on.It's all about siphoning power from your enemies man... My NB friend and I both favor greatswords as our weapons of choice, dispite their issues compared to the other weapons. We run vet dungeons together, and we are both v12. Power Extraction is awesome, and it is interesting that a class stereotyped for being a single target assassin actually craves grouped mobs due to it.
Just a bit of advice
It may not be the way they want to play their character though...
That's the way i play my melee nightlbade also.Edited by Dekkameron on July 21, 2014 6:30PM- Veteran Combat Librarian -1 -
DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There have been plenty of responses on how to improve the NB players in your gaming circle. But to be honest, one thing that you really need to do, is speak up and convince all 3 NB's that somebody has to knuckle down and roll/level-up a Sorc. Other than that, you'll have to find and bring in a new member to your fold who does play a sorc.
Sure, any class (in theory) can fill any role. But realistically, your current setup is limited in that it's harder to adapt. A Sorc that can fill both a DPS and a Healing role simply by swapping weapons (which is easy peasy for a sorc) without having to re-spec, will make your life a whole lot easier.
I know it sucks to say it. You and your personal friends wish to stick together. But when a significant portion of the group all want to fill the same role, somebody's got to give, or those 3 of the same class with the same builds will find themselves waiting in the wings for their chance to participate.3 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Funny you should say that, @DenverRalphy. was hoping our new guy would play a sorcerer so I could occasionally take on a DPS role. I just hate to turn him away from the game by telling him to play what we need. The same goes for my other friends. Actually, I'm going to hang out with our best current nightblade and at some point, we'll log in and I'll help her refine her build.
I appreciate all of the constructive feedback, instead of people getting hostile, calling names and such. We'll try out some of your suggestions and see how we can improve.
Also, I scooped up a few of the new Steam players and I'm building my guild now (previously just us friends). I figured it would be cool to let some new people in a tighter group of players for a friendly environment, and also to give us some fresh setups. Hopefully they'll catch up and fill some of those roles.Edited by jrgray93 on July 21, 2014 7:22PMEP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job1 -
Evergnar✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Well said. Not sure what more to add except running with a group of diverse builds, each with unique rolls to play is what makes the game so fun.DenverRalphy wrote: »There have been plenty of responses on how to improve the NB players in your gaming circle. But to be honest, one thing that you really need to do, is speak up and convince all 3 NB's that somebody has to knuckle down and roll/level-up a Sorc. Other than that, you'll have to find and bring in a new member to your fold who does play a sorc.
Sure, any class (in theory) can fill any role. But realistically, your current setup is limited in that it's harder to adapt. A Sorc that can fill both a DPS and a Healing role simply by swapping weapons (which is easy peasy for a sorc) without having to re-spec, will make your life a whole lot easier.
I know it sucks to say it. You and your personal friends wish to stick together. But when a significant portion of the group all want to fill the same role, somebody's got to give, or those 3 of the same class with the same builds will find themselves waiting in the wings for their chance to participate.3 -
Madval✭✭✭Your friends are not good. I played with NB who owned in dps. One was spe siphon and bow I think (never played one myself) , *** the carnage !4 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's the spirit, get rid of the old friends and bring in some flavor of the month players /sarcasm.
The issue here isn't the classes, it's the builds. Nightblades can be excellent damage dealers, excellent aoe'ers, excellent healers, and excellent tanks, but you need to use the right abilities and the right weapons to do any of those roles.
Dual wield + bow works for single target damage and control, and can contribute to aoe.
Resto + destro staff works well as an aoe damage dealer and offhealer.
Dual wield + 2handed works for support damage and offtanking.
Shield + (2handed or dual wield) works for tanking.
In any of these setups, you will need to hybridize between magicka and stamina (except the staff build), and you will need to mix both weapon, class, and guild abilities on your bar.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0 -
LariahHunding✭✭✭✭It's all about siphoning power from your enemies man... My NB friend and I both favor greatswords as our weapons of choice, dispite their issues compared to the other weapons. We run vet dungeons together, and we are both v12. Power Extraction is awesome, and it is interesting that a class stereotyped for being a single target assassin actually craves grouped mobs due to it.
Just a bit of advice
It may not be the way they want to play their character though...
The more mobs in a group, the more effective power extraction is, if you block and have some one healing you, you can take down a group. Or alternate it with whirlwind or pulsar and take down groups by oneself.
I've taken down 5-packs with this and impale has a finisher."Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
0 -
poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭My son made it to VR2, with a Vampire NB, using dual wield, with no points in it. Kind of blew my mind, he has always been a talented fighter in many games though.
He is now running several sets I made him, Willow and Kiss right now, waiting for the changes, and we have upped his critical a lot. I like numbers and we are working on his. The important dual wield passives are now in use and the difference is impressive, even with the VR nerf.
Watched him do a 20,000 health world boss yesterday.0 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭i've rolled from dk to nb and i like it so far, much more interesting abilities, passives and ults as nb.0 -
Nb stamina builds shouldnt have any problems with resources or overall dps. Only issue they might have is with survivability. Therefore it would be usefull if tank uses talons and nbs vulcanic rune. Siphoning attacks, power extraction, whirwind (stamina morph) , vulcanic rune and not wasting ultimates ( veil of blades) should be sufficient. Thing is that in most cases they have to have 3 loadouts if they want to produce best results with stamina based nb's . First loadout dw - single target ( boss fight low mobility ), second loadout bow for boss fights with high mobility and third is dw aoe setup. For best results they have to switch gear and skills with outfitter addon. That strategy with 3 loadouts can be used if dungeon u run is known to the players.Edited by tino.antoninieb17_ESO on July 21, 2014 8:38PM1
-
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wow, interesting mix of good and bad advice here....
I wish I could help more myself, but without knowing their builds, and without knowing how they approach problems, I can't give anything too helpful. For all I know, it could be something as simple as positioning issues (which it sounds like it could be). To just plain not understanding and realizing the potential of available skills.
Edited by Shunravi on July 21, 2014 8:49PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
LunaRae✭✭✭✭I personally prefer taking out high priority targets in packs of mobs, say healers or archers, instead of blind AoE spam. I think they just need to try new combinations of weapons/abilities and continue learning on what works and what doesn't work. If their AoE dps is low try getting them to focus on single target to burst down one opponent at a time, help them learn
Like others have said though there are popular AoE builds, I would recommend checking some youtube vids out or surfing forums for popular NB AoE builds. Good luck! Stands-Strong-As-Snow ~ Argonian Templar DC NA V14
Ytheri ~ Argonian Nightblade EP Thornblade NA V14
Heals-All-Colours ~ Argonian Templar EP Thornblade NA V14
Stands-In-Still-Waters~ Argonian Sorcerer EP Thornblade NA V22 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭Those NB AOE DPS that are Stamina builds should have zero issue doing decent to good DPS. As a NB they should be pairing any AOE ability with Power Extraction and Veil of Blades Ultimate for holy crap damage. It doesn't matter if they're Dual Wield, 2H or Bow AOE, it boosts it up a huge amount. Lack of skill on their part is nothing ZoS can fix, so how does your post reflect on Class balancing?
More to point, are you saying that bads only play NB, like we're the equivalent of WoW Huntards? Just trying to get a read of what you're getting at with that post. For the record I'm very good at NB and was really good at my Hunter in WoW, and even I hated Huntards when I played lol.
You obviously don't play WoW.1 -
Oinabilac✭✭As said before you just need to overlook your builds. Here is a video of our guild doing 10 minutes flat at Hel Ra Citadel, running 5 nightblades. I didn't do that well that run; I am capable of pulling 1300 dps on first boss and around 900 dps on last boss, which is about the same as most dks. AOE DPS is certainly not an issue as you will see on the first trash before the first boss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP2bVvnZELk 0
