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How do you think Trolling/Bullying/Baiting should be handled on the forums by mods.
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I am ok with the current way of doing things but would like to see less hate.DenverRalphy wrote: »
Perhaps not. But I can guarantee that more consumers will shop somewhere else that cleans their carts and doesn't have snot infested communities given the option. The "Thick Skin" argument is simply a rationalization to justify poor behavior at the expense of others.Everyone should just grow a thicker skin, if you ask me. Like that stupid germ killing lotion you see everywhere now, it will just result in people having less exposure to germs, and deny their body the chance to build immunities against them. Nobody ever died from touching the same shopping cart as some runny-nosed kid, and no one is ever going to die from some fool baiting you in a forum.
Like I put in my response. Balance is the key to this and many things. You don't want to coddle people or they lose the desire to become better when something lower then their best is accepted. On the other side then you certainly don't want people pushing other people so far that they can't ever hope to satisfy whoever is pushing them. The argument itself is however you perceive it, but the best answer will always be somewhere around the middle.Edited by ianangelospreub18_ESO on July 19, 2014 8:33PM1 -
Reivax✭✭✭✭DenverRalphy wrote: »The "Thick Skin" argument is simply a rationalization to justify poor behavior at the expense of others.
No, I don't think so. I can and have had my feelings hurt by other people's words and actions, we all have. God knows I've probably been the idiot on the giving end of a few of those.
But there are a few billion other people on this earth living with me and if I'm going to spend my life worrying about what they say to me and allowing it to get under my skin, then I feel I'm just wasting my life.
It's not a rationalization, it's advice from a grown man who has seen that worrying what strangers say about you and allowing it to affect you, is a waste of your time and you should ignore it.
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arena25✭✭✭✭✭Current situation is fine, I report it, they ban it.Current situation is fine, troll threads have been closed very quickly, and I think Zenimax will close this one as well by sundown Monday...if we do have maintenance.
Done. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to mowing my lawn.If you can't handle the heat...stay out of the kitchen!0 -
I am ok with the current way of doing things but would like to see less hate.Current situation is fine, troll threads have been closed very quickly, and I think Zenimax will close this one as well by sundown Monday...if we do have maintenance.
Done. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to mowing my lawn.
*Sees bait.....swims on by* I apologize if this was not your intent, just the way it appears.0 -
Allyah✭✭✭
There is an easy way to battle this. Respond politely (or not at all). It'll drive the trolls crazy and the mods will have no reason to delete your post (if it exists).MasterSpatula wrote: »None of these options really fit how I feel about things.
The report button works in theory, but in my experience, it's the trolls who can dish it out but can't take it who use the button. They post something reprehensible; someone calls them on their behavior; they report that someone; that someone gets a post removed and a warning. The troll's post remains, because the people trying to make a better community don't use the report tool. They're trying to use the powerful tool of shame to convince others to behave better. They're trying to self-police the community.
But because trolls are bullies and cowards, they jump on the report button as soon as someone gives them the response they've earned. And the wrong person receives action by ZOE mods.
How I actually feel is that the forum mods here should be using a lot more judgement and a lot less sticking to black-and-white rules that weren't necessarily that well-thought-out.
I think the solution is to make the Forum Rules much more clear and for the mods to do their jobs properly. It's not that hard to determine between who is flaming and who is just posting an opinion.The underlying problem isn't that Mods don't respond, it's that people who maybe don't like a certain player can spam report against players for comments that don't remotely fit in any description of the CoC's definitions in some attempt to get people banned. The second issue is Mods have even said it's a very gray area in regards to defining what is and what is not against CoC. Third, some people seem to get comments removed that are identical to other comments that are allowed to stay. This shows that either there are players on the rampage to get a few banned or that the Mods aren't universally acting against ALL comments.
The solution? Even Mods are Human and make mistakes, have time issues, get annoyed by constant reporting that isn't a reportable offense, etc. I think as we continue to grow as a community things will improve and less hate filled threads will be seen.
It's pretty easy to ignore someone you don't know online. Bullying is something you are constantly required to endure not something you allow to happen to yourself. Trolling and flaming are not bullying.ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »I have yet to see anything I considered "bullying" on here. Sure, trolling and flaming, but insulting someone is not automatically bullying. Bullying implies repetitive and methodical behavior targetted at one person or a group of people sharing a common trait.
For instance, if I disagree with you, I am not doing any of those things. If I call you a moron because I disagree with you (or just for the heck of it) then I am flaming you, but not necessarily trolling or bullying you. If I disagree with you just for the heck of it, to draw you into anger and useless disagreement, that would be trolling, but not flaming nor bullying. If I target you across multiple posts and/or multiple threads, then I am engaging in bullying behavior. I have yet to see any of this latter behavior.
I would disagree simply on the terminology. In my mind trolling, flaming etc is just a type of bullying, one instance of it is still bullying. Multiple instances of that would be more along the lines of Harassment. Just a difference in what terms mean what though. In the end you can always just call it for what it is: just somebody being an ass.
I'm stating the obvious, I know, but "troll" is one of the most over- and mis-used words on the internet. I'm constantly being called a troll for no other reason than I don't back down when people are trying to convince me their opinions are the "right" opinion.ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »MercyKilling wrote: »I completely dislike how someone who has a different opinion and isn't afraid to be blunt about things is labeled a troll.
Ditto to those trying to inject a little humor into things.
[...]
I wouldn't say they are immediately labeled a troll, at least I have never seen that. There is a pretty clear difference between someone trying to make a joke and someone picking on another with the intent of making them mad. The same would go for anyone who simply speaks their mind, although some things are simply offensive and you have to watch what you say, once again though there's a clear difference between an accident and intending to cause anger and frustration.
[...]0 -
I am ok with the current way of doing things but would like to see less hate.
There is an easy way to battle this. Respond politely (or not at all). It'll drive the trolls crazy and the mods will have no reason to delete your post (if it exists).MasterSpatula wrote: »None of these options really fit how I feel about things.
The report button works in theory, but in my experience, it's the trolls who can dish it out but can't take it who use the button. They post something reprehensible; someone calls them on their behavior; they report that someone; that someone gets a post removed and a warning. The troll's post remains, because the people trying to make a better community don't use the report tool. They're trying to use the powerful tool of shame to convince others to behave better. They're trying to self-police the community.
But because trolls are bullies and cowards, they jump on the report button as soon as someone gives them the response they've earned. And the wrong person receives action by ZOE mods.
How I actually feel is that the forum mods here should be using a lot more judgement and a lot less sticking to black-and-white rules that weren't necessarily that well-thought-out.
I think the solution is to make the Forum Rules much more clear and for the mods to do their jobs properly. It's not that hard to determine between who is flaming and who is just posting an opinion.The underlying problem isn't that Mods don't respond, it's that people who maybe don't like a certain player can spam report against players for comments that don't remotely fit in any description of the CoC's definitions in some attempt to get people banned. The second issue is Mods have even said it's a very gray area in regards to defining what is and what is not against CoC. Third, some people seem to get comments removed that are identical to other comments that are allowed to stay. This shows that either there are players on the rampage to get a few banned or that the Mods aren't universally acting against ALL comments.
The solution? Even Mods are Human and make mistakes, have time issues, get annoyed by constant reporting that isn't a reportable offense, etc. I think as we continue to grow as a community things will improve and less hate filled threads will be seen.
It's pretty easy to ignore someone you don't know online. Bullying is something you are constantly required to endure not something you allow to happen to yourself. Trolling and flaming are not bullying.ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »I have yet to see anything I considered "bullying" on here. Sure, trolling and flaming, but insulting someone is not automatically bullying. Bullying implies repetitive and methodical behavior targetted at one person or a group of people sharing a common trait.
For instance, if I disagree with you, I am not doing any of those things. If I call you a moron because I disagree with you (or just for the heck of it) then I am flaming you, but not necessarily trolling or bullying you. If I disagree with you just for the heck of it, to draw you into anger and useless disagreement, that would be trolling, but not flaming nor bullying. If I target you across multiple posts and/or multiple threads, then I am engaging in bullying behavior. I have yet to see any of this latter behavior.
I would disagree simply on the terminology. In my mind trolling, flaming etc is just a type of bullying, one instance of it is still bullying. Multiple instances of that would be more along the lines of Harassment. Just a difference in what terms mean what though. In the end you can always just call it for what it is: just somebody being an ass.
I'm stating the obvious, I know, but "troll" is one of the most over- and mis-used words on the internet. I'm constantly being called a troll for no other reason than I don't back down when people are trying to convince me their opinions are the "right" opinion.ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »MercyKilling wrote: »I completely dislike how someone who has a different opinion and isn't afraid to be blunt about things is labeled a troll.
Ditto to those trying to inject a little humor into things.
[...]
I wouldn't say they are immediately labeled a troll, at least I have never seen that. There is a pretty clear difference between someone trying to make a joke and someone picking on another with the intent of making them mad. The same would go for anyone who simply speaks their mind, although some things are simply offensive and you have to watch what you say, once again though there's a clear difference between an accident and intending to cause anger and frustration.
[...]
Not sure if I would agree with how you define bullying, do we even have a proper dictionary definition of Cyber Bullying? Going to look it up just out of curiosity.0 -
Allyah✭✭✭
Cyber bullying is usually done between people that know each other. When that is not the case, it is still usually someone putting something personal on the internet that attracts the attention of aggressive people. I hate to be the person to blame the victim but, in the latter case, the victim can prevent it by either not posting stuff on the internet that is causing them pain, by ignoring it, and/or by developing a thicker skin.ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »
There is an easy way to battle this. Respond politely (or not at all). It'll drive the trolls crazy and the mods will have no reason to delete your post (if it exists).MasterSpatula wrote: »None of these options really fit how I feel about things.
The report button works in theory, but in my experience, it's the trolls who can dish it out but can't take it who use the button. They post something reprehensible; someone calls them on their behavior; they report that someone; that someone gets a post removed and a warning. The troll's post remains, because the people trying to make a better community don't use the report tool. They're trying to use the powerful tool of shame to convince others to behave better. They're trying to self-police the community.
But because trolls are bullies and cowards, they jump on the report button as soon as someone gives them the response they've earned. And the wrong person receives action by ZOE mods.
How I actually feel is that the forum mods here should be using a lot more judgement and a lot less sticking to black-and-white rules that weren't necessarily that well-thought-out.
I think the solution is to make the Forum Rules much more clear and for the mods to do their jobs properly. It's not that hard to determine between who is flaming and who is just posting an opinion.The underlying problem isn't that Mods don't respond, it's that people who maybe don't like a certain player can spam report against players for comments that don't remotely fit in any description of the CoC's definitions in some attempt to get people banned. The second issue is Mods have even said it's a very gray area in regards to defining what is and what is not against CoC. Third, some people seem to get comments removed that are identical to other comments that are allowed to stay. This shows that either there are players on the rampage to get a few banned or that the Mods aren't universally acting against ALL comments.
The solution? Even Mods are Human and make mistakes, have time issues, get annoyed by constant reporting that isn't a reportable offense, etc. I think as we continue to grow as a community things will improve and less hate filled threads will be seen.
It's pretty easy to ignore someone you don't know online. Bullying is something you are constantly required to endure not something you allow to happen to yourself. Trolling and flaming are not bullying.ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »I have yet to see anything I considered "bullying" on here. Sure, trolling and flaming, but insulting someone is not automatically bullying. Bullying implies repetitive and methodical behavior targetted at one person or a group of people sharing a common trait.
For instance, if I disagree with you, I am not doing any of those things. If I call you a moron because I disagree with you (or just for the heck of it) then I am flaming you, but not necessarily trolling or bullying you. If I disagree with you just for the heck of it, to draw you into anger and useless disagreement, that would be trolling, but not flaming nor bullying. If I target you across multiple posts and/or multiple threads, then I am engaging in bullying behavior. I have yet to see any of this latter behavior.
I would disagree simply on the terminology. In my mind trolling, flaming etc is just a type of bullying, one instance of it is still bullying. Multiple instances of that would be more along the lines of Harassment. Just a difference in what terms mean what though. In the end you can always just call it for what it is: just somebody being an ass.
I'm stating the obvious, I know, but "troll" is one of the most over- and mis-used words on the internet. I'm constantly being called a troll for no other reason than I don't back down when people are trying to convince me their opinions are the "right" opinion.ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »MercyKilling wrote: »I completely dislike how someone who has a different opinion and isn't afraid to be blunt about things is labeled a troll.
Ditto to those trying to inject a little humor into things.
[...]
I wouldn't say they are immediately labeled a troll, at least I have never seen that. There is a pretty clear difference between someone trying to make a joke and someone picking on another with the intent of making them mad. The same would go for anyone who simply speaks their mind, although some things are simply offensive and you have to watch what you say, once again though there's a clear difference between an accident and intending to cause anger and frustration.
[...]
Not sure if I would agree with how you define bullying, do we even have a proper dictionary definition of Cyber Bullying? Going to look it up just out of curiosity.Edited by Allyah on July 19, 2014 10:10PM0 -
I am ok with the current way of doing things but would like to see less hate.Alright so found the actual definition and this is just part of it but: "Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another. "
So it does indicate deliberate and repeated attempts but I am not sure if that means just on like one individual or multiple instances perpetrated by the same "bully". A lot of times when an argument does get heated people will start putting each other down etc just cuz the other side doesn't agree, seems like there is a fine line there that can be crossed in the heat of the moment.0 -
I am ok with the current way of doing things but would like to see less hate.Regardless of the term used there are people who try and cause an argument just for the sake of the argument and I don't think what term is used is what is important. There has to be a balance of how much is the person who causes the anger at fault and how much is the person who is getting angry rather then walking away at fault. Both are generally to blame I would say at least a little.
So to conclude: At some point whoever is purposely trying to make people mad simply needs to be reported and stopped and at some point of being angry over and over the person being angered needs to just walk away and not let it bother them.Edited by ianangelospreub18_ESO on July 19, 2014 10:22PM0 -
Allyah✭✭✭@ianangelospreub18_ESO
I agree with your general idea. However, the meanings of words are very important. I feel it would be a disservice to all those who are constantly psychological and physically harassed at school and on the internet to be lumped in with the same group of people who put themselves into a situation where they are flamed on the internet.0 -
Romo✭✭✭✭Mods should roam endlessly smiting trolls and abusers with far greater vigor and ferocity!!!!The one thing I really miss in the poll and on the forums is the option to....
Ignore the trolls.
Please give us that option.
Would clear up at least half the mess.1 -
I am ok with the current way of doing things but would like to see less hate.@ianangelospreub18_ESO
I agree with your general idea. However, the meanings of words are very important. I feel it would be a disservice to all those who are constantly psychological and physically harassed at school and on the internet to be lumped in with the same group of people who put themselves into a situation where they are flamed on the internet.
Eh fair enough but i disagree with saying they are putting themselves into the situation. Everyone who plays does have a right to comment on these forums and expect to not have to deal with the kind of behavior such as flaming etc. That's the point of the code of conduct I thought. It obviously can't be stopped at every corner but the mods do have an obligation to try and prevent it. So saying they are putting themselves into that situation would be to far in my mind. All players should come fully aware that it might happen and what to do if it does, same as teachers have an obligation to try and prevent bullying and harassment in schools etc but can't watch every single interaction so when you are there you need at least some knowledge that it can happen and what to do if it does.Edited by ianangelospreub18_ESO on July 19, 2014 10:33PM0 -
I am ok with the current way of doing things but would like to see less hate.The one thing I really miss in the poll and on the forums is the option to....
Ignore the trolls.
Please give us that option.
Would clear up at least half the mess.
Agreed, I imagine this would solve many of the issues actually.0 -
jeradlub17_ESO✭✭✭Not enough choices in your poll. All of those are pretty much it's ok. I propose a new choice:
Forum mods and ZOS need to reduce the censorship of people's posts. They go overboard with it.- Dallamar, Sorc, EP
- Krushim of KrushimTV on Youtube and Twitch
- https://www.youtube.com/c/KrushimTV
- http://www.twitch.tv/krushim1 -
Allyah✭✭✭
Of course, you are right. But I was mainly speaking about people who are constantly letting themselves be dragged into arguments on the forums. Those that are a victim of bullying/harassment/cyberbullying/trolling should keep this quote in mind: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »@ianangelospreub18_ESO
I agree with your general idea. However, the meanings of words are very important. I feel it would be a disservice to all those who are constantly psychological and physically harassed at school and on the internet to be lumped in with the same group of people who put themselves into a situation where they are flamed on the internet.
Eh fair enough but i disagree with saying they are putting themselves into the situation. Everyone who plays does have a right to comment on these forums and expect to not have to deal with the kind of behavior such as flaming etc. That's the point of the code of conduct I thought. It obviously can't be stopped at every corner but the mods do have an obligation to try and prevent it. So saying they are putting themselves into that situation would be to far in my mind. All players should come fully aware that it might happen and what to do if it does, same as teachers have an obligation to try and prevent bullying and harassment in schools etc but can't watch every single interaction so when you are there you need at least some knowledge that it can happen and what to do if it does.
I can see an ignore button becoming just another way for people to abuse the forums and could at least partially destroy the point of forums (being exposed to other viewpoints).ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »0 -
I am ok with the current way of doing things but would like to see less hate.
Of course, you are right. But I was mainly speaking about people who are constantly letting themselves be dragged into arguments on the forums. Those that are a victim of bullying/harassment/cyberbullying/trolling should keep this quote in mind: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »@ianangelospreub18_ESO
I agree with your general idea. However, the meanings of words are very important. I feel it would be a disservice to all those who are constantly psychological and physically harassed at school and on the internet to be lumped in with the same group of people who put themselves into a situation where they are flamed on the internet.
Eh fair enough but i disagree with saying they are putting themselves into the situation. Everyone who plays does have a right to comment on these forums and expect to not have to deal with the kind of behavior such as flaming etc. That's the point of the code of conduct I thought. It obviously can't be stopped at every corner but the mods do have an obligation to try and prevent it. So saying they are putting themselves into that situation would be to far in my mind. All players should come fully aware that it might happen and what to do if it does, same as teachers have an obligation to try and prevent bullying and harassment in schools etc but can't watch every single interaction so when you are there you need at least some knowledge that it can happen and what to do if it does.
I can see an ignore button becoming just another way for people to abuse the forums and could at least partially destroy the point of forums (being exposed to other viewpoints).ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
Very true.
As for the ignore button I imagine same as anything it could be used to cause problems but I think it would solve more then it would create. If someone doesn't want to be exposed to another viewpoint even if its good for them to see they probably shouldn't be forced. People are often easy to manipulate especially if they are already upset over something else so an ignore button might be a good idea just for those instances when someone isn't thinking clearly and isn't able to stop responding very easily. It has worked fairly well in other forums and works well in the game chat where it can be abused so I figure it would work just as well here.1 -
ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mods should roam endlessly smiting trolls and abusers with far greater vigor and ferocity!!!!PERMA BAN!!!0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ8G2s--1zA&feature=youtube_gdata_player