Re-Think Change to Atronach

heyguyslol · July 2014

I guess when the devs decided to nerf the Sorc Atronach they didnt stop to think that maybe if a sorc new when and where to use it properly that the taunt is a necessity for a lot of situations.

For example say you are running a dung and the tank goes down a sorc can drop the atronach (un-nerfed pre 1.3) which may taunt the boss and hold agro while someone else rez's the tank.

I find it completely ridiculous that the devs decided to nerf the taunt on the atronach because some sorc's dont know when and where to use it right, gg devs.

If u absolutely feel the need to make a change then remove the taunt from the "Charged Atronach" morph and keep the taunt on the "Storm Atronach", this way sorc's have one morph with and without a taunt and at that point it is up to the sorc to know how and when to use it.

Tbh the "Charged Atronach" morph should not have a taunt as its more dmg aoe. The "Storm Atronach" is more of a tank not dps and should have a taunt.

Removing the taunt completely just makes the ultimate useless. Please dev's reconsider this change. I do not feel that this is an unreasonable request.

Tabbycat · July 2014

I would have to say I absolutely agree with you. As a Sorc, it's annoying enough that you have to put pets on both bars or they go poof. But to lose out on one of our survival mechanisms when sorcs are squishy to begin with without replacing it with a new survivability mechanic is going to make leveling a Sorcerer as a mage more difficult and tedious than it needs to be.

One Atronach with a taunt and one without it would be a perfect solution.

Axer · July 2014

It's a matter of perspective.

Imo the atronach is getting buffed.

Being able to accurately select his targets now (currently his auto target taunt bugs that out) and not have it be 100% unuseable on certain trial bosses (as it would wipe the raid) is pretty bad.

So for me, and the sorcs I run with who mostly raid.. It's a nice buff. As they will actaully be able to use it on various trial bosess now, and not wipe the group.

Only sounds like a nerf to low skilled players.

Suggestion to fix is pretty bad too. Still would result in sorcs not being able to use it, as the best use the single target, as its plain superior against booses.

Best fix would be a simple toggle in options like they added for its taunted. Maybe Y +A = Enable/disable pet taunting. (Default: Off)

Snit · July 2014

If the Greater Storm Atronach is being nerfed as a solo/ small group tool to suit raiders, then I ask what percentage of players raid? I suspect it's like any MMO, and that number is something in the 5 - 10% range. Max.

That ultimate is a very important tool for sorcs who are leveling or doing solo delves. Nerfing it so a tiny percentage of players can use it in the raid seems an odd choice.

makkon · July 2014

sorcs have more powerfull ultimates atm but atronach. use it and dont cry

Snit · July 2014

makkon wrote: »

sorcs have more powerfull ultimates atm but atronach. use it and dont cry

Sorcs have three ultimates, 1) Power Overload, 2) Negate Magic and 3) Atronach. The first two are AoE damage and crowd control, respectively.

The Greater Storm Atronach is the sorc's only class-based single-target ultimate, currently providing both DPS and CC. This change eliminates the CC, as it evidently annoys some endgame players.

Incidentally, accusing others of 'crying' when discussing balance issues has never in the entire history of the internet convinced anyone to change their mind or even reconsider their perspective.

heyguyslol · July 2014

Axer wrote: »

It's a matter of perspective.

Imo the atronach is getting buffed.

Being able to accurately select his targets now (currently his auto target taunt bugs that out) and not have it be 100% unuseable on certain trial bosses (as it would wipe the raid) is pretty bad.

So for me, and the sorcs I run with who mostly raid.. It's a nice buff. As they will actaully be able to use it on various trial bosess now, and not wipe the group.

Only sounds like a nerf to low skilled players.

Suggestion to fix is pretty bad too. Still would result in sorcs not being able to use it, as the best use the single target, as its plain superior against booses.

Best fix would be a simple toggle in options like they added for its taunted. Maybe Y +A = Enable/disable pet taunting. (Default: Off)

This is probably a better solution to keep the taunt but have it bound to a command for the pet, similar to the the recent changes to pets command. I like it. Maybe zos will consider this.

But for the record I do not consider myself a "low skilled" player and this is a nerf no matter how u look at it. The game should not revolve just around trials, its just one aspect of the game with many ways to play it, different strokes for different folks. Try not to sound so arrogant and selfish :P

Jade_Knightblazerb14_ESO · July 2014

As a Nightblade, I too ask for the Non-removal of Taunt off our Summon Shade ability and morphs.

Both the Mage and Nightblade skills have had part of their flavors removed T_T

Yolokin_Swagonborn · July 2014

The atronarch is my least used sorc ability. It is clunky and slow and much weaker and easier to avoid than DK standard.

But as has been said in this thread already, make one morph good for tanking/pve and the other morph faster and more powerful for PvP.

Solution found.

Armann · July 2014

Another solution would be to limit taunt to Y+LMB only, and in addition apply that to the familiar as well. Allows for more control as a pet user and a better experience overall when having both the familiar and twilight out when solo questing since the twilight is very weak and dies often, the cast time on it is not helping either.

kewl · July 2014

makkon wrote: »

sorcs have more powerfull ultimates atm but atronach. use it and dont cry

Your hurt Standard of Might's feelings.

heyguyslol · July 2014

I'm pretty much open to most of the solutions mentioned alrdy just mainly against the idea of removing it completely is my main complaint. Apparently someone on another forum was saying that they may not do this because its to much coding and by removing it completely is just the easy/lazy way of dealing with it.

I can't say one way or the other but if zos doesn't do something with taunt other than completely removing it then I would have to agree they would be taking the easy and lazy way out of the problem. Hopefully they dont pull a Blizzard and do that.

Sandmanninja · July 2014

The atronauch is my Oh Sh!t button when questing/soloing. It would be silly to remove the taunt. As stated earlier, just give it a morph choice

pinstripesc · July 2014

Jade_Knightblazerb14_ESO wrote: »

As a Nightblade, I too ask for the Non-removal of Taunt off our Summon Shade ability and morphs.

Both the Mage and Nightblade skills have had part of their flavors removed T_T

Does the NB Shade taunt? Last time I used it the mobs didn't even enter combat when it hit them.

Sasky · July 2014

Having a single sorc in-party you can work around as a tank since you do get 3 taunts per 10sec, so you don't run into it as much for vet dungeons although it is rather annoying. I was in one group with 3 sorcs and there'd frequently be 2 SA up on the boss. Haven't been in Trials yet, but it's probably similarly unmanageable.

Probably the best solution they'd have to change the taunt mechanics to allow a medium taunt. This that wouldn't overrride one of the active taunt skills from 1h+shield or undaunted, but would allow solo players to get mobs off them when they pop the ultimate.

Snit · July 2014

Sasky wrote: »

I was in one group with 3 sorcs and there'd frequently be 2 SA up on the boss. Haven't been in Trials yet, but it's probably similarly unmanageable.

You can easily manage it within existing mechanics. Here's how:

/p Hey guys -- please don't run Atronach in this fight
(optional) /p Mebbe try Soul Assault. Or Negate Magick so we can wreck the adds

Alternately, we can nerf an ultimate that is extremely useful in solo/ duo content.

heyguyslol · July 2014

If we can get enough players to constructively post enough on this post then I think zos may put the man hours into coding to allow us to keep the taunt. So plz tell your friends about the change and post their opinions/comments here. I really feel with the suggested changes in this post that it will allow everyone not just trial players to benefit from this ultimate.

Sasky · July 2014

Snit wrote: »

You can easily manage it within existing mechanics. Here's how:
/p Hey guys -- please don't run Atronach in this fight

(optional) /p Mebbe try Soul Assault. Or Negate Magick so we can wreck the adds

Alternately, we can nerf an ultimate that is extremely useful in solo/ duo content.

That's just like someone on the forums saying "Hey sorcs, just use absorption field while leveling." I might be a little biased since I leveled a pre-buffed templar through pre-nerfed vet content, but lacking a taunt isn't the end of the world for solo content.

(Btw, I did suggest an alternative that gives it both ways -- just make it not compete with player taunts.)

heyguyslol · July 2014

Sasky wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

You can easily manage it within existing mechanics. Here's how:
/p Hey guys -- please don't run Atronach in this fight

(optional) /p Mebbe try Soul Assault. Or Negate Magick so we can wreck the adds

Alternately, we can nerf an ultimate that is extremely useful in solo/ duo content.

That's just like someone on the forums saying "Hey sorcs, just use absorption field while leveling." I might be a little biased since I leveled a pre-buffed templar through pre-nerfed vet content, but lacking a taunt isn't the end of the world for solo content.

(Btw, I did suggest an alternative that gives it both ways -- just make it not compete with player taunts.)

Yep this is pretty much what we are asking for. But just to let u know the Atronach is literally the only real viable Ultimate we (sorcs) have for most of the content in game.

Yes Negate is useful for some situations but not near as many, Overload is a joke and imo a horribly designed ultimate which only leaves us with the Atronach which works for just about every encounter possible in the game provided they correctly fix the taunt so it doesn't disrupt player encounters during trials and vet dungs.

I think the best solutions are to either give us a pet command for taunt similar to the new pet commands they just added with the last patch or have one morph with a taunt (storm) and one without (charged).

Sunrock · July 2014

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

For example say you are running a dung and the tank goes down a sorc can drop the atronach (un-nerfed pre 1.3) which may taunt the boss and hold agro while someone else rez's the tank.

You don't think that is a bit too easy mode "I win button"? I do for sure. Playing a game that is too easy and is way too forgiving is boring in the long run. In fact it's better to have a too challenging game then a too unchallengeable game. IMO more people would quit playing because they get bored with the content then quit playing because they where unable to learn how to play and complete the content.

The taunt ability is not needed. Not even close because if your tank dies you're doing something wrong and you need to learn not doing wrong things. If the game allows you to compensate for you or your team lack of understanding the game mechanics does not in any way help you in the long run. In fact it would have the opposite effect on you.

Maverick827 · July 2014

Sunrock wrote: »

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

For example say you are running a dung and the tank goes down a sorc can drop the atronach (un-nerfed pre 1.3) which may taunt the boss and hold agro while someone else rez's the tank.

You don't think that is a bit too easy mode "I win button"? I do for sure. Playing a game that is too easy and is way too forgiving is boring in the long run. In fact it's better to have a too challenging game then a too unchallengeable game. IMO more people would quit playing because they get bored with the content then quit playing because they where unable to learn how to play and complete the content.

The taunt ability is not needed. Not even close because if your tank dies you're doing something wrong and you need to learn not doing wrong things. If the game allows you to compensate for you or your team lack of understanding the game mechanics does not in any way help you in the long run. In fact it would have the opposite effect on you.

I disagree.

heyguyslol · July 2014

Sunrock wrote: »

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

For example say you are running a dung and the tank goes down a sorc can drop the atronach (un-nerfed pre 1.3) which may taunt the boss and hold agro while someone else rez's the tank.

You don't think that is a bit too easy mode "I win button"? I do for sure. Playing a game that is too easy and is way too forgiving is boring in the long run. In fact it's better to have a too challenging game then a too unchallengeable game. IMO more people would quit playing because they get bored with the content then quit playing because they where unable to learn how to play and complete the content.

The taunt ability is not needed. Not even close because if your tank dies you're doing something wrong and you need to learn not doing wrong things. If the game allows you to compensate for you or your team lack of understanding the game mechanics does not in any way help you in the long run. In fact it would have the opposite effect on you.

You can't expect everyone to play to your standards. You will always have pro gamers, average gamers, and gamers who well gamers that aren't very good. Your statements are very narrow minded and a bit on the arrogant side.

Nothing you have said is just cause to remove the taunt. This game like many others was not made for just one type of play style or one type of player. The sooner ppl like yourself realize that the better.

Furthermore if I personally wanted an "I WIN BUTTON" I'd be playing a DK :P

heyguyslol · July 2014

There have been several well thought out solutions to the taunt Atronach issue that to not exercise one of them in this next patch over the current plans for an easy fix is really quite unacceptable especially since we pay a subscription for this game. My $15 a month sub is just as green as the $15 sub who QQ'd about the taunt to begin with.

I do not believe that it is all that difficult nor time consumming to simply implement one of the following solutions to this problem.

A. Charge Atronach morph has NO Taunt. Storm Atronach morph has Taunt.

or

B. Leave the Taunt on both morphs and give the Atronach a pet command for Taunt.

It's not rocket science, choose one or the other but don't ignore us and take the easy way out because a few Trial players wiped because they can't L2P.

Sasky · July 2014

Don't call L2P against some players or dungeon players when you refuse to change your current method.

What are you wanting to keep the taunt for? Leveling content which has recently been nerfed quite a bit and is on the easy side? Or veteran dungeons / trials where it does more harm than good overall?

I wouldn't mind if the developers looked into a way to get it both ways, but it'd be more developer effort and time when they have other issues. In the meantime, I'd rather it work well in the hardest content than in the much easier PvE leveling.

I doubt they'll implement anything, as they've already stated it was not intended to be a tanking pet but a high DPS pet.

Snit · July 2014

Sasky wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

You can easily manage it within existing mechanics. Here's how:
/p Hey guys -- please don't run Atronach in this fight

(optional) /p Mebbe try Soul Assault. Or Negate Magick so we can wreck the adds

Alternately, we can nerf an ultimate that is extremely useful in solo/ duo content.

That's just like someone on the forums saying "Hey sorcs, just use absorption field while leveling." I might be a little biased since I leveled a pre-buffed templar through pre-nerfed vet content, but lacking a taunt isn't the end of the world for solo content

Asking someone not to use a particular ultimate during specific fights is not akin to changing how they level while solo.

If you're suggesting that Absorption Field and Atronach are equivalent, that's simply incorrect. They're both excellent solutions to specific situations you encounter, but they apply to different situations.

If you don't think this change will have a significant impact on sorcs leveling through solo content, I do not think you have leveled a sorc.

Snit · July 2014

Sunrock wrote: »

You don't think that is a bit too easy mode "I win button"? I do for sure.

You play a DK, right? And you're criticising another class for having a really good ultimate?

heyguyslol · July 2014

Sasky wrote: »

Don't call L2P against some players or dungeon players when you refuse to change your current method.

What are you wanting to keep the taunt for? Leveling content which has recently been nerfed quite a bit and is on the easy side? Or veteran dungeons / trials where it does more harm than good overall?

I wouldn't mind if the developers looked into a way to get it both ways, but it'd be more developer effort and time when they have other issues. In the meantime, I'd rather it work well in the hardest content than in the much easier PvE leveling.

I doubt they'll implement anything, as they've already stated it was not intended to be a tanking pet but a high DPS pet.

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion but making the change that they wish to make is effecting more players than just the Trial players. Trials is just one aspect of the game. It sounds as if you feel the game mechanics should revolve souly around Trials which I don't think it should.

I think they should make the appropriate changes to satisfy players on both sides which is possible and doable. And for the record I'd be willing to bet there are more players against than for this change. Seems to me like Zos just wants to turn Trials into an E-Sport to try to promote the game which imo goes against the genre of this type of game but hey thats just my opinion doesn't make it a fact.

heyguyslol · July 2014

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

Sasky wrote: »

Don't call L2P against some players or dungeon players when you refuse to change your current method.

What are you wanting to keep the taunt for? Leveling content which has recently been nerfed quite a bit and is on the easy side? Or veteran dungeons / trials where it does more harm than good overall?

I wouldn't mind if the developers looked into a way to get it both ways, but it'd be more developer effort and time when they have other issues. In the meantime, I'd rather it work well in the hardest content than in the much easier PvE leveling.

I doubt they'll implement anything, as they've already stated it was not intended to be a tanking pet but a high DPS pet.

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion but making the change that they wish to make is effecting more players than just the Trial players. Trials is just one aspect of the game. It sounds as if you feel the game mechanics should revolve souly around Trials which I don't think it should.

Furthermore Zos has even stated in a pod cast that they like that they are so many avenues to playing ESO. You have players who just farm mats to make gold, you have players who just like the questing and story, you have players who like to only play with their friends whether it be dungeons or trials, and you have players who like only playing solo.

Making a change like this only cater's to the few which are the Trial players, there are far more players who don't or have not yet done or maybe even want to do Trials.

I think they should make the appropriate changes to satisfy players on both sides which is possible and doable. And for the record I'd be willing to bet there are more players against than for this change. Seems to me like Zos just wants to turn Trials into an E-Sport to try to promote the game which imo goes against the genre of this type of game but hey thats just my opinion doesn't make it a fact.

Maverick827 · July 2014

Sasky wrote: »

Don't call L2P against some players or dungeon players when you refuse to change your current method.

What are you wanting to keep the taunt for? Leveling content which has recently been nerfed quite a bit and is on the easy side? Or veteran dungeons / trials where it does more harm than good overall?

I wouldn't mind if the developers looked into a way to get it both ways, but it'd be more developer effort and time when they have other issues. In the meantime, I'd rather it work well in the hardest content than in the much easier PvE leveling.

I doubt they'll implement anything, as they've already stated it was not intended to be a tanking pet but a high DPS pet.

The taunt only does harm if you don't know how to play.

Snit · July 2014

Sasky wrote: »

I'd rather it work well in the hardest content than in the much easier PvE leveling.

It's a typical MMO dynamic: The tiny percentage of the population focused on endgame PvE raids wants the game to cater to them. The needs of non-raiders simply aren't as important as that 5% who are killing the biggest, baddest of the big-bads.

The odd thing is, that tiny sliver usually wins these debates. Their voices drown out more casual players, who are unlikely to visit the forums.

heyguyslol · July 2014

Snit wrote: »

Sasky wrote: »

I'd rather it work well in the hardest content than in the much easier PvE leveling.

It's a typical MMO dynamic: The tiny percentage of the population focused on endgame PvE raids wants the game to cater to them. The needs of non-raiders simply aren't as important as that 5% who are killing the biggest, baddest of the big-bads.

The odd thing is, that tiny sliver usually wins these debates. Their voices drown out more casual players, who are unlikely to visit the forums.

Unfortunately you are right the casual players don't typically visit or voice their opinions or concerns on the forums which is probably why the more hardcore trial players will win this debate and get their way.