So DK's Fiery Grip Was Nerfed Monday.......

Arsenic_Touch · July 2014

Amazing how these "mistakes" keep happening.

Shiall · July 2014

I'm v12 pvp DK and i'm not interested in pve (quests are ok but i don't want to do it again for my alt).

I'm using full light armor (heavy armor = useless trash anyway) and shield+sword and fire staff.

"Thanks" for free skill space in my shield+sword skillbar .

demonlkojipub19_ESO · July 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi there, everyone. We did recently make a change to Fiery Grip in patch 1.2.5 that was mistakenly not included in the patch notes as there is still an art-related fix to be made. We reduced the Y-axis (vertical distance variable) of this ability from 10m to 8.5m as we found that it was mitigating the defender’s advantage too heavily while in Cyrodiil. This change was also made to address an issue where some players were creating characters of opposing factions, and pulling themselves into keeps to bypass intended keep siege mechanics. We apologize for making this change to the mechanic without telling you; it was not our intent.

Is it possible for you guys to change only the Y-axis downward instead of the Y-Axis upward, so people can still be pulled down from keeps, but not up to keeps?

Alphashado · July 2014

I recently rolled a DK and I still haven't found a place where fiery grip doesn't work in pve. Does this change only effect keep walls? I've been pulling mobs up and down stairs in dungeons.

Orizuru · July 2014

irre_greg wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

...This change was also made to address an issue where some players were creating characters of opposing factions, and pulling themselves into keeps to bypass intended keep siege mechanics...

I think it would be fine if a DK pulled an enemy up over the wall quite by accident. That would be one of those "oops!" moments--sort of like inviting a vampire into your home.

Consider this:
An enemy get's pulled over the wall and they manage to kill the fool that did it. The enemy can go crazy on as many players as he can, but as soon as he comes into contact with an NPC guard, an alarm is sounded and the attack radius of the NPCs expands to insane levels where basically every single NPC behind the wall comes over to attack the invader. And while we're at it, let's have the guards respawn at a guard house as soon as they are killed.

I think you missed the problem in that though.

People weren't mistakenly pulling enemies over the walls. They were doing it deliberately. In fact, they were using it to avoid having to siege a keep altogether. For example, an AD player organizes a large group to try and take a keep defended by EP players. One of the guys in the AD player's group also has an alt that is playing the same campaign, but is a member of the EP. He switches to his EP alt, enters the keep as a defender, then proceeds to use Fiery Chains to transport the entire group of AD players over the wall so they can rush the scroll and take the keep without having to follow the intended game mechanics for sieging a keep.

This is why ZOS had to change the skill. It's clearly bypassing game mechanics for how to capture a keep from the enemy.

Mescalamba · July 2014

xMovingTarget wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Pretty much just a PvE skill now.

nah. not at all. used it in trials sometimes to pull some outside mobs into the group aoe. But thats not viable anymore. If the mob is 1cm above or below you, the pull doesnt work.

So in the end, its pretty much useless in its current state.

Always love when PvE bites dust due PvP "balance". In this case there was plenty ways to fix this "issue". And they made great job in finding worst possible variant. I mean I couldnt invent such horrible solution and I have pretty good imagination..

Defatank · July 2014

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ was Silver Leash looked at for this same potential issue?

If people were using these to allow enemy players into the keep to cap flags before the walls were taken down could you not make it impossible to capture flags until a wall / door is down for the inner and outer walls / doors?

apostate9 · July 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Jesus christ.

Zenimax messed up again...

They destroy an ability COMPLETELY that is already quite bad and expensive to fix a bug.
They could have fixed the bug without destroying the ability...

@zos_ginabruno What's up with destroying the ability and take 5 steps back to fix a bug and go 1 step forward, and without mentioning it in the notes...again?

Wow, over-react a little more. I didn't realize that adding a Z-axis check, a completely reasonable bug fix, constitutes "completely destroying" and ability.

I am surprised that you are even still playing DK, since two weeks ago you were complaining that they "completely destroyed" the entire DK class with the balance pass.

Did you also think that the caltrops ability was "completely destroyed" when they fixed the exploit that was letting it ignore siege damage?

Did you complain that the economy was "completely destroyed" when they fixed the hireling mail exploit?

Do you think I "completely destroyed" your quote because I removed the obnoxious formatting?

Did you actually read the OP?

Baphomet · July 2014

Hopefully @ZOS will revert it once they get the new campaigns going where the population should be so high that emperor farming can't happen.

Food4Thought · July 2014

In PVE I haven't seen this skill much impacted. But then again, the terrain doesn't tend to change much in those environments. But there have been times that I was unable to pull a mob to me. At the time I thought it was just a game glitch or the mob was immune to my pull. Now I know the real reason this wasn't working.

All I can say is thanks for the enlightment guys. Like many of you have said, it is time to consider whether the skill if even worth applying to the toolbar now. It certainly annoys me knowing I spent more points to give it longer distance and that increase in distance is likely to cause it to not work even more now.

OrangeTheCat · July 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

DK players have been pulling enemies onto Keep walls for ages so that they can cap a Keep without having to lay siege.
That's the source of the change most likely.

Yup. Abuse it and lose it.

OrangeTheCat · July 2014

xaraan wrote: »

...snip...

Only thing I hate about them are the jerks in PvE that yank stuff away from other players mid fight.

OMG, I hate it when people do that to me. I just stop fighting and hope they die without my help (rarely happens though).

SDZald · July 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

...snip...

Only thing I hate about them are the jerks in PvE that yank stuff away from other players mid fight.

OMG, I hate it when people do that to me. I just stop fighting and hope they die without my help (rarely happens though).

In the early days when Bots were a huge problem in dungeons on the boss's, this 'Jerk' used to hang around for long periods of time, repeatedly telling real players that I was going to pull the Boss to me when it spawned. Then once it spawned it was funny watching the bots swing away at nothing after I had pulled it. Most of the real players didn't think I was a 'jerk'

Maulkin · July 2014

Let's have a look here.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey folks! Just made a number of updates to the original thread for the following issues:
Rapid Maneuver

XP Gains

One-Shotting in Cyrodiil

Teleporting to safe areas in Cyrodiil

Fiery Grip (and note that the issue was that players were getting pulled through walls)

Silver Shards

Weapon Swapping breaking stealth

Quest in Volenfell

More to come as we gather the information. Hope this helps!

...and then

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi there, everyone. We did recently make a change to Fiery Grip in patch 1.2.5 that was mistakenly not included in the patch notes as there is still an art-related fix to be made. We reduced the Y-axis (vertical distance variable) of this ability from 10m to 8.5m as we found that it was mitigating the defender’s advantage too heavily while in Cyrodiil. This change was also made to address an issue where some players were creating characters of opposing factions, and pulling themselves into keeps to bypass intended keep siege mechanics. We apologize for making this change to the mechanic without telling you; it was not our intent.

So first you said you wouldn't change the chain's ability to pull down from walls, which is to say that you wouldn't put a y-axis variable.

Then you went on and stealth changed exactly what you said you wouldn't, breaking the skill in the process (for PvEers and PvPers alike) as it currently doesn't even work with the tiniest of angles.

It took you a week to even acknowledge the stealth change, while you still haven't acknowledged that the y-axis is currently rendering the skill useless.

To top it all off, we didn't even get the skill points back. With the current stupid respec system this means that I not only lost a skill, but that I also have to spend 26k to put the points to something else.

Given the above, would you say @ZOS_GinaBruno that it'd be unfair, harsh or insulting if we didn't believe a single word you guys say in the future? It's either complete incompetence or you guys are for some reason actively trying to alienate customers. I can't think of a 3rd reason