Is it just me or are the Vet zones not a challenge after patch 1.2.5 ...

Alphashado · July 2014

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

For example, I did the Death of Balreth quest and Balreth was not anywhere near a difficult battle. Before I started the battle, Balreth wasn't even at full health. In reading posts on the topic, Balreth is supposed to be a tough boss.

I just did this on VR1 and it seems bugged t me.

As with you he started on only about 90% health or maybe less. He simply stood by the lave pool he spawned at and did nothing, at all.

It's a long time since I did this quest chain but I think I remember him being a pain, hard to damage, with the scamps being annoying, while he at times would run to one pool or the other and heal some.

As for VR in general now, I like it so far, less tedious that my previous time in the early VR zones, and I can only imagine how much worse it got VR6+: of course, I've yet to see what it is now, so ...

I did this fight on an alt the other day and I was dumbfounded. I really hope it was just a glitch or something because if people complained about the difficulty of that fight to the point where zos just said "screw it lets cut his health in half and make him just stand there and not attack", then just take the damn quest out of there and tell us he died instead of wasting our time.

To the OP, they said this was the first in a series of changes so I don't think that by any means it will stay this easy. I think they will start tweaking certain mobs and bringing the balance to a normal level because they basically just went from one extreme to the other. Yeah the challenge was fun before except for the fact that you pretty much had zero leeway to change skills. People throwing out the l2p argument were basically saying learn to use these 5 or 6 skills that are the only thing that gets you through this content.

The game is improving, slowly but surely, and that's all that really matters this early (we're only a little past the 3 month mark)

This. Exactly this. I have seen way more comments from people saying they have re subbed due to the change than people that have unsubbed because of it. There has been grumbles of course. It's impossible to make everyone happy. But grumbling and unsubbing are entirely different.

In the latest interview with Paul Sage, he explicitly mentions that they are working on content designed for above average players that enjoy a challenge.

Until then, the average player can progress with an average build in vet content. And that is good for the game.

Skwor · July 2014

Yes it is to easy now. However templers are still desperately in need of fixes due to the very poor dps and magicka issues.

Great a templer can more easily do the vet zones, big deal. Most raids still do not need a templer or only need 1. Please for the love of the game and balance of the classes fix templers.

timidobserver · July 2014

Amazingly there are still people complaining about the game being too difficult. They are going to have to make the NPCs stop moving or attacking or having any health at all to make the game acceptable to some.

MonkeyAssassin24 · July 2014

wrlifeboil wrote: »

I'm surprised that no one caught this. OP is, umm, misinformed and the basis for this thread invalid.

OP apparently doesn't know that ZOS nerfed Balreth before the Vet Rank changes in 1.2.5. My guess is that the devs couldn't reconcile Balreth getting healed by the lava with new VR1s having specs that didn't have any cc that was effective or enough dps for the Balreth fight. That or the devs couldn't solve the problem of Balreth bugging out (happened to me on non-VR Balreth back months ago).

Decent theory but they fixed the bug by making it so once he is defeated, his "spirit" just appears at the static location instead of having to relying on the corpse, and not having cc doesn't matter as they give you an item specifically designed to cc him when he goes to the lava to heal. I'm EP so I don't have any idea how hard this fight was for v1 or v6 pre-nerf but to make it so he just stands there and takes a beating is...sad. Maybe I'm more biased because I really enjoyed the Brothers of Strife storyline from Stonefalls and now it seems any schlub with a weapon can defeat him

aleister · July 2014

Bosses and another single or duo encounters seem much easier. Some of the 3 and 4-pack trash mob encounters can still be somewhat challenging if you are unprepared or make a mistake. This imbalance has always been the issue - pre-nerf I never had a problem with the end-quest bosses, but the damn trash mobs I needed to kill to get to the boss were annihilating me. At least now I can survive them well enough if I am prepared.

Edit: I'd also like to add that while I would have preferred to see more of a considered balance than an across-the-board nerf, this change is still a good thing overall for a lot of players. At least now, I am willing to come back to complete Cadwell's silver/gold. It just wasn't worth the time and frustration before.

Erock25 · July 2014

The patch ruined the game for me, personally. The challenge was the best part of solo pve and now there is none. It doesn't matter if I'm skirt and sticking it or going melee, there is zero challenge and that is even with ignoring aoe circles and stuff like that.

KariTR · July 2014

Players still don't understand that singles, pairs and groups of three in an MMO act as a difficulty slider would in a single player game. If you have trouble soloing anything over 1s or 2s then circumnavigate the larger groups.

Anyway, groups of three seem to be in less abundance now (condolences for those who play as a pair) and, ironically, I probably die to pack mobs just as often as my over confidence often has me pulling two groups at a time to try and add back some challenge.

The biggest and most disappointing change has come from the other intended group content, specifically world bosses and dolmens. I know there were leet players who could solo WBs before now, but I am not a leet player and I couldn't. And I was fine with that, they were group content and people wanted to group for them. Now very, very few people need to and those that do can't find anyone to do them with. Twice yesterday (a Saturday!) I stopped what I was doing to help someone with a WB then later someone else with a public dungeon (that I had already soloed) as they had been shouting for well over 30 minutes. That never happened when players had to have help. If nothing else gets addressed, I do hope the changes to intended group content is reverted.

As it is, "You can solo [insert dungeon/world boss/dolmen, whatever applies]" is the new call in our multiplayer game.

Esha76 · July 2014

The plain reality of it is that VR zones are still basic leveling despite what people thought it should be. And the majority of the population are not hard-core gamers that want to fear being stomped into the dirt by trash. It has a lot less to do with being "wusses", as one genius referred to them in another thread, but people who just wanted to experience the content of the game without perpetual irritation. I wrote pretty much a massive dissertation of this whole this in another thread... The problem with this debate is two different types of gamers arguing with each other, and it almost always turns hostile and vicious. People just can't refrain for initiating snide, condescending, and blatantly insulting remarks in a forum media.

I completed Cadwells gold on a medium DW/Bow NB a while back now. I refer to the experience as a "punishing death grind". Solo'ed all solo content, but it was beyond irritating. Everyone still thinks this nerf happened due to people "crying and whining" on the forums. Forums are only a small parts of dev's decision on their games. There was a lot more to the nerf than people on here.

With this nerf, I'm fighting everything I come across. The only time I sneak to avoid something is if I have a time constraint. I have no fear of packs of three, and even go out of my way to go kill them and other stuff. I found myself experimenting with other abilities and builds to see how they would go over. So, due to this nerf, I feel I'm getting much more out of this game and actually playing it more rather than sneaking and hiding from things. And, if you screw up, you'll still get killed.

I think VR is exactly what it should be right now as it's still basic leveling. I'm all for the extra difficult content in the game, I just don't think VR was the place for it. And I'm sure ZOS will be working it in somewhere. We still have to see what this new vision of theirs will be.

KariTR · July 2014

Esha, I said pre-nerf, L1-L50 will become the harder levelling content as VR ranks don't have main story and guild story bosses, who were relatively harder than anything you came across in Vet zones.

I stand by that comment.

Fairydragon3 · July 2014

KariTR wrote: »

Esha, I said pre-nerf, L1-L50 will become the harder levelling content as VR ranks don't have main story and guild story bosses, who were relatively harder than anything you came across in Vet zones.

I stand by that comment.

addendum: F&$K the Alchemist

Esha76 · July 2014

KariTR wrote: »

Esha, I said pre-nerf, L1-L50 will become the harder levelling content as VR ranks don't have main story and guild story bosses, who were relatively harder than anything you came across in Vet zones.

I stand by that comment.

Why on Earth are you replying to me directly when I said nothing about you, or anything you said anywhere. I said nothing to you, at all, nor especially anything that you needed to stand by any comments. What the hell is the matter with you?

KariTR · July 2014

This is a discussion forum right?

Esha76 · July 2014

Yeah, but why are you calling me specifically when I said nothing to, about you, or even anything you mentioned in you post directed to me???

steveb16_ESO46 · July 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

And not to be rude, I'm sure the developers are very smart. But the simple question is if they are so super super smart why did it take people crying and whining on the forums to get the content nerfed?

Because only a very naive person would think for one second devs do anything like this because of forum yahoo's. They did it, quite probably under instructions to DO SOMETHING in response to unpleasant financial projections.

Zenimax are part of a very big business with a lot of money invested. The ONLY thing, the only thing they respond to is money. Not forum denizens. Money.

What goes on in the forums is a symptom not a cause.

KariTR · July 2014

Esha76 wrote: »

Yeah, but why are you calling me specifically when I said nothing to, about you, or even anything you mentioned in you post directed to me???

Can I paraphrase?

You said "VR levels are an extension of L1-L50"

I replied "L1-L50 is harder than VR levels"

Esha76 · July 2014

KariTR wrote: »

Esha76 wrote: »

Yeah, but why are you calling me specifically when I said nothing to, about you, or even anything you mentioned in you post directed to me???

Can I paraphrase?

You said "VR levels are an extension of L1-L50"

I replied "L1-L50 is harder than VR levels"

Fine, whatever - basic leveling/extension of 1-50... really something that needs to be debated, where would we be without you? But if you feel you need to "stand by your comment" (which I still have no idea what comment you were initially referring to, nor do I care to look it up at this point) and be all defensive over something I never said to you, that's clearly your problem, and yours alone.

I am now finished with you.

KariTR · July 2014

What? I was expanding on your comments. I wasn't "calling' you, nor was I being defensive.

Is English not your first language? No offence, but you seem to have completely misunderstood the tone and point of my reply.

crislevin · July 2014

You are imaging things, although mob health and damage are reduced, they did not reduce the numbers of monster in any specific groups.

Kayira · July 2014

I soloed all dolmen and world bosses in alikr desert vet 9 yesterday as a vet 12. That should not be possible. It is plain boring without any challenge. I am not saying to change back to the old difficulty but please make it slightly harder again....

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

I'm surprised that no one caught this. OP is, umm, misinformed and the basis for this thread invalid.

OP apparently doesn't know that ZOS nerfed Balreth before the Vet Rank changes in 1.2.5. My guess is that the devs couldn't reconcile Balreth getting healed by the lava with new VR1s having specs that didn't have any cc that was effective or enough dps for the Balreth fight. That or the devs couldn't solve the problem of Balreth bugging out (happened to me on non-VR Balreth back months ago).

Decent theory but they fixed the bug by making it so once he is defeated, his "spirit" just appears at the static location instead of having to relying on the corpse, and not having cc doesn't matter as they give you an item specifically designed to cc him when he goes to the lava to heal. I'm EP so I don't have any idea how hard this fight was for v1 or v6 pre-nerf but to make it so he just stands there and takes a beating is...sad. Maybe I'm more biased because I really enjoyed the Brothers of Strife storyline from Stonefalls and now it seems any schlub with a weapon can defeat him

It was rough at vr1, I had a stamina build at the time, though.

But yea, did it on an alt recently, was expecting a nasty fight. He just stood there, don't think he even swung at me or anything.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

And not to be rude, I'm sure the developers are very smart. But the simple question is if they are so super super smart why did it take people crying and whining on the forums to get the content nerfed?

Because only a very naive person would think for one second devs do anything like this because of forum yahoo's. They did it, quite probably under instructions to DO SOMETHING in response to unpleasant financial projections.

Zenimax are part of a very big business with a lot of money invested. The ONLY thing, the only thing they respond to is money. Not forum denizens. Money.

What goes on in the forums is a symptom not a cause.

I agree and disagree to some extent. For example, say they can see that once people hit veteran content that they quit playing. And there are 900 post written on the forum about how they hate they veteran content because it is to hard.

They are loosing money and seeing people say they dislike something. I don't think it is an either or situation. They take both into account. I'm sure some people fill out exit questionnaires, but some don't and they have to look some where for information.

Taleof2Cities · July 2014

Thanks, everyone, for all the posts!

To be honest, I am not trolling nor am I trying to imply my gameplay or Sorc is better than others. I just noticed how much different the enemies were.

I do understand there were a lot of complaints about the VR content being too difficult to solo pre-patch ... so I get that. I also get that the game is malleable and could be tweaked back a little should the devs decide to do so.

Appreciate the comments.

Loco_Mofo · July 2014

Now that dolmens and world bosses require no groups, yes VR has become a boring joke to some.

Jermu73 · July 2014

VR content was never difficult it was boring grind in the beginning you just can do it little faster now and it was directed to gruop at first and now more likely to soloplay. Example if sinmur had hp 200 000 or something like that and now little less and does little bit less damage. You just can kill him faster thats all.

You hit same buttons then before but it doesn't take 20 minutes now.

Dagoth_Rac · July 2014

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I also noticed there were not any multiple (3 or more) enemy groups.

Maybe it is just the VR6 zone Stonefalls, but I wanted to post this to see what others think.

VR6 is a Level 1-15 zone for non-VR. Those early zones rarely have mobs of 3 or 4. The mob types and numbers are no different than non-VR Stonefalls. It is just a buffed version of the non-VR content. Go back to VR5 or work your way into the higher level zones of EP. You'll start to find plenty of mobs of 3 or 4 again. I would not be surprised if VR5 is harder than VR6. VR5 mobs don't have much less health or damage, but you get attacked by more at a time.

I think what happened is that the VR content that was really causing problems for the average player was probably around VR3-5, which is the later regions of non-VR content, where you start to see larger groups of mobs and more archers/mages/healers. But all the VR content got the same nerf. So that while VR3-5 and VR8-10 might now be seen as a reasonable compromise, VR1-2 and VR6-7 is probably a little too easy due to not having to face too many enemies at once.

The best solution probably would have been a sliding nerf scale. Nerf VR1 and VR6 a little, VR2 and VR7 a little more, and so on. But the game is not coded for that. The "VR buff/nerf factor" is just some single, global data field somewhere that affects all of VR1-VR10. They can easily change that field to affect everything. Recoding the VR zones to have a sliding difficulty scale? That would have been more work, more likely to introduce bugs, etc.

This was the best they could come up with in a short amount of time to stop all the average players and people coming from single player ES games to stop unsubbing. There is a good chance they will make further tweaks in the future to difficulty.

Software development is basically lots of meetings that consist of, "We have a problem. What is the best solution? [Best solution provided]. How long will that take? 12 weeks! That is too long! Well, get started, but is there any kind of half measure we can put in place quickly to hold us over? Something not ideal but better than what we have?"

I am pretty sure the above is what happened with VR difficulty/grindyness/lack-of-fun.

wrlifeboil · July 2014

KariTR wrote: »

Players still don't understand that singles, pairs and groups of three in an MMO act as a difficulty slider would in a single player game. If you have trouble soloing anything over 1s or 2s then circumnavigate the larger groups.

Anyway, groups of three seem to be in less abundance now (condolences for those who play as a pair) and, ironically, I probably die to pack mobs just as often as my over confidence often has me pulling two groups at a time to try and add back some challenge.

The biggest and most disappointing change has come from the other intended group content, specifically world bosses and dolmens. I know there were leet players who could solo WBs before now, but I am not a leet player and I couldn't. And I was fine with that, they were group content and people wanted to group for them. Now very, very few people need to and those that do can't find anyone to do them with. Twice yesterday (a Saturday!) I stopped what I was doing to help someone with a WB then later someone else with a public dungeon (that I had already soloed) as they had been shouting for well over 30 minutes. That never happened when players had to have help. If nothing else gets addressed, I do hope the changes to intended group content is reverted.

As it is, "You can solo [insert dungeon/world boss/dolmen, whatever applies]" is the new call in our multiplayer game.

Players don't understand that unlike in 1-10 Stonefalls, there aren't as many players in VR1 Stonefalls or VR6 Stonefalls. So viewing grouping as a difficulty slider isn't realistic for many players.

Balreth as a new EP player in Stonefalls was fun at launch. Lots of players to group with. I was sort of dreading the fight when I got my AD toon to VR1 but ZOS had already nerfed Balreth into oblivion. ZOS nerfed it before the VR nerf. OP got it wrong.

Paladin_echo1 · July 2014

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Thank god. I was sick of those repair costs.

Ya for you people who like a challenge. Go solo a group dungeon. As for me, I like money and not struggling to repair armor so I can keep my stats up. I do like to up my armor every now and then... Even though armor sucking is a whole nother topic.

pilotfish · July 2014

I hope after soft caps on stats are raised and armor set bonuses are buffed they consider dialing up the damage and hp of everything. I agree with some that this was tuned down too far. Incoming changes in 1.3 suggest to me it will get even easier.

Naru_D_Wynn · July 2014

don't cry ...

if you want a challenge go naked / bare fists or wear lvl 20 gear ....

you can make it as hard for yourself as you want but you can't make it easier for those that have problems ...

Hilgara · July 2014

Naru_D_Wynn wrote: »

don't cry ...

if you want a challenge go naked / bare fists or wear lvl 20 gear ....

you can make it as hard for yourself as you want but you can't make it easier for those that have problems ...

Yes you can. Watch some videos, read some guides, talk to people playing your class.
The challenge is meeting the goals set by the developers. its HAVING to be the best you can to meet that challenge. You shouldn't have to tie your own shoe laces together just to make the game interesting.

And yeah. I have a full time job.....just in case you were wondering.