Auralia wrote: »

Sure I like trying to earn achievements, but having only 1 way to get dyes is wrong, and too limited, should be several options as I think if you want to do achievements to earn dyes you can, but if you don't want to, especially for those who may only have an hour or 2 of play you should be able to craft the dyes and buy from others or even have it as a drop.

Only one way?

Achievements cover all aspects of the game; exploration, quest completion, slaying, dungeon crawling, PvP, crafting, lore, everything. There is not 'only one way' to earn achievements, ergo there is not 'only one way' to unlock dyes.

Let's look at your suggestions, which are far more restrictive:

1) I'd have to craft them - and to collect all the dyes as a crafter will probably take a couple of years, based off the design for current gear crafts.

2) Two I could buy them off a crafter - see above, I may have to wait a long time for my colour of choice. Assuming I could afford to buy them in the first place.

3) Why anyone would ask to be at the mercy of RNG is beyond me. RNG is an evil in MMOs, a necessary one admittedly, but no less evil.

I honestly can't understand the lack of vision some players have. That and the sense of entitlement to all content - tip: you're not playing a single-player game - really brings the gaming community down. Can we have a non-ageist "Grow up" please?

Dyes are silly. I would prefer a stable and decent frame rate during Pvp.

Anastasia wrote: »

Night_Watch wrote: »

Shadowcaster_9481 wrote: »

(please dont say leveling alchemy is a time investment)

In your opinion! Others will think differently. The tag line is 'play how you want' not play as others dictate. No offence meant.

That said;

Having dye tied (please - no jokes) to achievements is clearly not acceptable to some players as they may not want to do associated content.

Would it not be just fabulous to have a dye you could only achieve from fishing? Catch 10,000 salmon to get the 'Salmon Pink' achievement with salmon pink dye reward. Maybe we could have PVP 'Blood Red' achievement with blood red dye reward.

Thing is, not everyone wants to fish or to PVP. So what do we offer as a way for those people to get those dyes? Do we give an alternate way to get the dye or an alternate dye? What about a 'Dyed in the wool achievement' for those that collect every (other) dye and give a rarest of rare dye reward? But, no! That latter achievement and dye would mean we would be forced to fish or PVP!

Crafting dyes could have many draw backs. There could instantly be an insane market for dyes that could easily see rarer dyes (or even not so rare) selling at huge prices and there could well be an instant way to rip off the buyer (or seller)! Something akin to this;

• Chat(1): Selling uber rare dye at uber price.
• Chat Frenzy.
• Chat (55) I'll give you that price.
• [Postal sale]
• Chat(1) COD dye, Chat(55) holds dye in mail with no payment made - potentially endlessly.

Or

• Chat(1) COD dye that looks like uber dye but is worth much less in the hope of scamming Chat(55).

Of course, this could apply to dye crafting ingredients too.

What would happen if, say, plants could be used for crafting dyes? would this affect the alchemist? Could dye making be part of alchemy or would the alchemist be in direct competition with the dyer for materials? What about the clothier? Could not such a player complain that dyeing should be in their craft - that is making dyes as well as applying such. And, hey! How come just anyone can dye - surely dyes should only be applied by a clothier! ( )

I'm sure there is much more to the debate

Personally, I would not want to craft dyes. Other players may well want to.

As much as I can see that there may be problems linked to tying dye to achievements, I cannot think of a fairer way of imnplementing the new dyes. I write this fully understanding that, for various reasons, there is content that I am unlikely to take part in and thus there are likely to be dyes that I never use.

Should we have to work for dyes? Yes! We absoloutely should. The arguements (points of view) in this debate seem to be all about what type of work we should do to enable the collecting of dyes.

---

1. There is no economy and ZOS is fine with that. If I didn't have access to choice for my own characters armor, weaps, good stat food, enchants etc by doing my own crafting, even though I've crafted in every MMO since 1999 as most raiders do, I'd not do it in TESO. With a very few exceptions, the literal only reason at this point to craft is for self-sufficiency.

2. Crafting-centric players (who may have come into TESO based largely on the promise that Crafters would always be relevant) vs. Solo'rs and Explorer/Achievement-centric players.

*Sits back and munches on some great spicy hummus and an ice-cold glass of wine while waiting to see which population of players in this debate get listened to.

It was obviously completely irrelevant on that other issue (Nerfing Vet Content 1 - 10) in which something was changed that was also a part of original TESO dev design and planning. The part of the population who based buying the game and subbing to it primarily on having a good long chunk of grouping-needed content in the Veteran areas as was part of advertising and promo's long prior and included in launch. That Vet Content was deleted and difficulty changed 'just a tad', instead of adding/creating/providing more valuable content for those who demanded it: Solo-centric players.

So now there is little to NO impetus to group up in Vet Content 1 - 10, and no way for any player to have a chance to enjoy grouping on their way to the endgame. It was inconsequential. The actual consequences of said change will no doubt be seen in further along content. *Coming soon in Phases II, III, IV etc.

Don't try being logical and noting that 'dying' items might somehow be connected to a craft already in place like Alchemy OR that a new sub-craft could have been created to address the fabulous new dye implementation.
We can be thankful at least the cool new dye colors are also able to be 'achieved' through fighting in various content outside of exploration ie PvP and etc. "Hey PvP'rs: gotcha some new content finally...DYES! You'll look sharp while you continue to do the current content for awhile longer yet. "

Also, do not mention that Achievements COULD have outstanding titles and reasons to work toward/goals/rewards separately instead of grabbing something players do desire and out of thin air deciding to connect it to exploration and achievements.

?What?

Was all that aimed at me? It seems so as you quote my post.

1. No economy ... craft is for self-sufficiency: There is an in game economy - just not one that everyone likes or is necessarily the best for the game. For me, as it seems with you, crafting is for self-sufficiency as I have no guild (other than mages / fighters) affiliation and thus have no access to the economy other than NPC vendors or face to face trading (have not done that yet).

2. I was trying to be reasonable in my post and point out that not all players play for the same reasons. The part where I mention made up names for achievements from fishing or PVP (only examples) and associated dyes was meant to be 'tongue in cheek' and in no way mandatory! I then went on to sarcastically mention an achievement for getting all dyes that rewards another dye. I was not saying we must do achievements or must not or that we must do crafting to get dyes, I was looking at potential alternatives.

Who will ZOS listen to? If they have any sense at all they will listen to all the player base (as best as possible). When ZOS act though, they will inevitably disappoint some players and please others. That is their call (ZOS) only and they will make it. Spicey hummus sounds nice - I like the three bean with jalapeno type.

That other issue - nerfing content ... solo content ... the consequences. I'm sure you have a good point to make there. It's all about balance. Again, that call is down to ZOS to make and they will dissapoint or please as they go along. If you are trying to relate that ZOS is being unfair to certain groups of player, creating imbalance in the game structure or not listening as such then I can relate to that and for proof of your correctness, or at least for supporting evidence of the pleasure or displeasure, we can see this simply by reading the forums. Non of this changes that I did not mention any of this 'That other issue - nerfing content ... solo content ... the consequences' in my original post!

You wrote 'Don't try being logical'. My reply is that you have no right to dictate what I do - so I ask that you please do not.

As it happens, though I did ask many questions concerning dye crafting and did show an example (two versions) of how dye crafting could be a bad thing for the game - seller / buyer dishonety, these where only examples. The questions and examples where all fine for the debate at hand. The thing is, there is no 'also'! The only way to get dyes will be through achievements. Now then! Before anyone goes all 'flame' on me. I know that achievements cover many aspects of the game including, crafting, PVP, exploring and many other things.

As for the last remark;

'Also, do not mention that Achievements COULD have outstanding titles and reasons to work toward/goals/rewards separately instead of grabbing something players do desire and out of thin air deciding to connect it to exploration and achievements.'

Erm .. ! Not sure I understand you here. Achievements do have outstanding titles and reasons to work toward/goals/rewards separately. Other than a few silly examples used to further the discussion or demonstrate the ideas, I grabbed nothing from anywhere! Edit: If you mean players desire dyes or dyeing then I agree. I did not decide to tie dye to anything though - ZOS did that.

The sad thing with just about any (in my experience) internet forum is that it is hard to have a reasonable debate when some people do not want to be reasonable. I point no fingers at anyone specifically.

Edited some spelling / granma, removed one line that made no sense on read back and added line where edit is shown..

There should be more than one way to get the same dye, I like the idea of rare drops and achievements.

There should be a drop that gives you a quest for some as well.

I think this is the right way to do it. There are many ways to get achievements including crafting. There are several ways of getting one colour even if it is a different shade. If you want emperor red then yes you should have the achievement you get from being emperor. Why should someone who has never done PvP get the dye ? If you don't want to do PvP do another achievement & get another red will it really make that much of a difference ? I can see 29 reds only 7 are rare. There are 6 different rare reds, with 6 different ways of getting them if you want to PvP but not go as far as emperor then there's 2 other achievements for PvP for reds. If you don't like PvP then there are 4 other rare reds for PvE. If you don't like PvP or PvE I personally think you're in the wrong game.

Well, OP, by your own poll it seems no one likes your ideas and wants ZOS's instead.

I like having achievements tied to dyes, actually gives a purpose to doing achievements.

preevious wrote: »

Actually, I think the should be lootable AND craftable.
Linking them to achievement is not a really good idea.
I, for one, do not want want to kill the same mob a trillion times just to get a achievement and unlock a dye.

That decision is a way to artificially increase the game content, and I am a bit disappointed.

But hey .. as always in mmo, crafters are never, ever, usefuls, and it'll stay that way in TESO too.

Crafters are useful I am a crafter as well as a PvE'er & often craft myself items to help me progress, I also craft items that help my guildies progress at lower levels or increase their crafting skill. But as has been said many times you don't HAVE to take part in one particular activity to get a colour it just means that you get a different shade of it. There is a red called Kresh Flower Red, you get this by completing Grand Master Crafting Harvester. There also dyes for exploring, PvE, PvP, Collectors etc. You will NOT be made to do anything you don't want to get a red or any other colour.

BBSooner wrote: »

(If they aren't already) id like to see them account wide - achievements on one character applies to the player, not just the character. Besides that, I'm fine with it staying achievement based.

Yes it will be account wide so you don't have to do the same achievements on all characters. This will also help if you have one spec'd for PvP, one for PvE & one for crafting like me.

Malpherian wrote: »

Well for one, You don;t have to do alchemy to get the dyes, you can simply BUY a dye color from an alchemist... Why that isn't apparently obvious to some of you all I have no idea. It's just like anything else with crafting.

Trading is not really accessible in this game unless you spend a lot of time in chat channels, join a trading guild and have a lot of gold.

Achievements however everyone does automatically while playing, you should go to the PTR to actually get a clue about the achievements as you seem to be miss informed about the Dyes.

Those are not all hidden behind difficult tasks such as Emperor,

most of the rare colors are simply done by questing and this everyone does in that game. Others are by finding books, doing crafting, running dungeons.

Its all pretty much accessible to anyone, there will be enough colors to choose from.