[Suggestion] Remove all classes stealth and change how AoE work in PvP

sir_vasb16_ESO · July 2014

AoE:
AoE in my opinion ruins PvP... Why does AoE even exist in PvP? Massiv battles and all players do are spamming AoE, Pulsar, Banners, Batswarm etc etc just to try get as many players down as fast as they can.. DKs charging in solo in groups and bring them all down.. Thats not PvP... If there would be no AoE in the game the fights would be so much more fun... Now AoE almost force melee to go some sort of ranged since if you charge in as melee then you are dead in a few sec due to AoE.. (if you are not a DK ofc)...
Why play as singel target melee taking down one when AoE builds kills many at a time...

Stealth:
Why can all classes stealth? Also be able to stand in broad daylight in the middle of a bright field in stealth? Big groups move in sneak, Charge in and spam AOE.. Thats not PvP..

Combat would be so much more interesting if only the shadow class like NB could stealth and to make that class special... Whats the point in playing a Rouge when all players can stealth even a full heavy armor tank in broad daylight... or atleast make it harder for non stealth classes to use stealth, for ex that they can only stealth in right light conditions... Via shadows or at night etc etc

These are my suggestions..
Remove stealth from non stealth classes and make AoE singel target or atleast tone it down so players dont just FOTM and go AoE spam builds to get a high score

Top Players on the leaderboards are all AoE spammers and that says it all... Boooring

Vizier · July 2014

I don't necessarily agree that stealth should be removed from non-shadow classes. Sneak is integral to TES titles. In other titles, however, it was much less effective to sneak in heavy armor. There should be massive sneaking penalties for heavy armor. In truth there should be some place for skill points to be spent on sneaking/stealth. I'm kinda of surprised there is not. Perhaps when DB and TG are introduced...?

Durham · July 2014

Vizier wrote: »

I don't necessarily agree that stealth should be removed from non-shadow classes. Sneak is integral to TES titles. In other titles, however, it was much less effective to sneak in heavy armor. There should be massive sneaking penalties for heavy armor. In truth there should be some place for skill points to be spent on sneaking/stealth. I'm kinda of surprised there is not. Perhaps when DB and TG are introduced...?

Movement is horrid in heavy...

Lava_Croft · July 2014

Don't stand in AoE effects and start using detection potions.

Gilvoth · July 2014

sir_vasb16_ESO wrote: »

AoE:
AoE in my opinion ruins PvP... Why does AoE even exist in PvP? Massiv battles and all players do are spamming AoE, Pulsar, Banners, Batswarm etc etc just to try get as many players down as fast as they can.. DKs charging in solo in groups and bring them all down.. Thats not PvP... If there would be no AoE in the game the fights would be so much more fun... Now AoE almost force melee to go some sort of ranged since if you charge in as melee then you are dead in a few sec due to AoE.. (if you are not a DK ofc)...
Why play as singel target melee taking down one when AoE builds kills many at a time...

Stealth:
Why can all classes stealth? Also be able to stand in broad daylight in the middle of a bright field in stealth? Big groups move in sneak, Charge in and spam AOE.. Thats not PvP..

Combat would be so much more interesting if only the shadow class like NB could stealth and to make that class special... Whats the point in playing a Rouge when all players can stealth even a full heavy armor tank in broad daylight... or atleast make it harder for non stealth classes to use stealth, for ex that they can only stealth in right light conditions... Via shadows or at night etc etc

These are my suggestions..
Remove stealth from non stealth classes and make AoE singel target or atleast tone it down so players dont just FOTM and go AoE spam builds to get a high score

Top Players on the leaderboards are all AoE spammers and that says it all... Boooring

please do not take away or help take away stealth and invisibility from us nightblades

invisibility and stealth is our only survival method as dark brother hood duel wield assassin types in elderscrolls online

Lava_Croft · July 2014

Funny how a Sorcerer, whose signature skill is Bolt Escape, calls Nightblades pansies.

demenzia · July 2014

My first thought was "ah, moaning again", but after reading your comment carefully I came to realise that you were right. It would be so much more interesting and challenging.

eliisra · July 2014

Remove sneak and no other class but NB would go outside the faction gate solo.

Do we really want a game where 3/4 classes are forced to move in groups when roaming PvP areas? Sneak is the only tool solo'ers and smaller groups have against big zergs.

Imagine trying to approach a keep under attack without sneak when solo. It's not even possible with skirmish groups and gankers blocking most roads. Try do a quest or pick a skyshard in enemy territory without sneak. It would be a suicide run with a 90% fail rate.

Horrible idea.

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO · July 2014

eliisra wrote: »

Remove sneak and no other class but NB would go outside the faction gate solo.

Do we really want a game where 3/4 classes are forced to move in groups when roaming PvP areas? Sneak is the only tool solo'ers and smaller groups have against big zergs.

Imagine trying to approach a keep under attack without sneak when solo. It's not even possible with skirmish groups and gankers blocking most roads. Try do a quest or pick a skyshard in enemy territory without sneak. It would be a suicide run with a 90% fail rate.

Horrible idea.

Agree, but the AoE part is valid. Removing them would remove the farm-trains.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

I like my ability to stealth, and I don't think it's unfair for non-NBs to have this because it's not as powerful as shadowy disguise is. And I feel it can be really necessary. Sometimes you need to avoid the enemies around you.

I recently shadowy disguised my way (with a friend) through all the craglorn public dungeons to get all the skyshards. One time we had to trade off pulling away mobs to get a skyshard, but otherwise we grabbed them mostly unmolested. I think that's a pretty big advantage in and of itself.

DeLindsay · July 2014

sir_vasb16_ESO wrote: »

Stealth:
Why can all classes stealth? Also be able to stand in broad daylight in the middle of a bright field in stealth? Big groups move in sneak, Charge in and spam AOE.. Thats not PvP..

Because this is based on TES games not WoW and it IS PvP, for ESO. This is an absurd request, sorry. I can't even get on board with the AOE request either.

madangrypally · July 2014

I do not agree that only one class gets stealth. Nightblades get a stealth damage bonus and that is enough.

Change I would like to see is Shadows. Stealth players still have shadows and if walking in water then it will be noticeable. If walking in a open field and someone is stealthed then I should be able to see there shadows if I was paying special attention.

SBR_QuorTek · July 2014

Just leave stealth to NBs then as it would be intended.... anyhow it is very easy to flush out a non-stealth class as they have absolutely crap skills for it.

Also there is potions for it, and believe if I remember the skill correct magelight.. have a person or two going around with that one up could do wonders.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · July 2014

Removing stealth is a terrible idea. Stealthing is what makes the game fun. My char moves slow as hell stealthed and it uses up all my stam very quickly.

Nightblades and med armor uses should have much better stealth but don't nerf heavy armor anymore that it is already. Heavy armor is already useless in PvP.

Anomaly 2 · July 2014

The point is you can make stealth builds using any classes, nightblades and certain races are just more effective at it. Removing stealth would be limiting customization on builds. I would hate to see that happen to ESO especially because I've been playing elder scroll games since morrowind and was excited for the fact this was suppose to be a TES game and without stealth it just wouldnt be. If you have a lot of problems with stealthers try using mage light, it does wonders. Also dealing with AoE spammers isnt hard. If you find it hard I can only assume your running in a zerg/pug group. I've never seen a DK charge in solo and take down a group since the whole dk vamp bat swarm days. I like people are posting there ideas to make the game better. I just disagree with everything you said lol

Nox_Aeterna · July 2014

Nope , dont agree.

Stealth in TES games had nothing to do with "class".

You could be good or bad on any character.

What they could do is add another tree for stealth alone , NOT LINKED TO NBs ONLY , something ALL classes could have , which would make the char have to invest a little before being good on it.

But it is ridiculous to say only the NBs should have it.

quakedawg_ESO · July 2014

Nah, leave both as they are. Some people are able to adapt why can't more people take the time to learn? Not an exclusive club.

Domander · July 2014

My reply to your post is No, both aoe and stealth are fun parts of the game.

VagabondAngel · July 2014

Fire Ring and Bat Swarm ftw.

Large battles are becoming a rinse-and-repeat of who can spam these the most... man, I hardly even get hit with Crystal Shards or Standard of Might any more.

I used to know which class had killed me...

I don't have a solution... simply nerfing everything to the ground is a bad idea but these things are making a mockery of strategy and are beginning to feel more like an exploit than a battle.

dcincali · July 2014

If they removed AOE ppl would just complain that they got focused down by x class with x skill and it should be nerfed so only x amount of ppl could hit you at one time..

Hello Kitty Online Adventure is here ->http://www.hellokittyonline.com/ they dont have pvp..

Please leave pvp to the people who enjoy the aspects of it. Thanks.

pmn100b16_ESO · July 2014

Concerning AoE, just don't go near the zerg trains, avoid sieges etc, and certainly don't go running into a group of players spamming AoE. Myself, I prefer to stealth about (NB) and pick off the stragglers. Find some small scale fights to join in. Can't say I'm bothered about who has what keep and how many.

Your choice is; go solo/small group, avoid big keep battles and zerg trains, spot your enemy player by player.

Or

Run about stacked on top of 20+ other players spamming a single skill over and over. Think they call that a PvP guild, lol. GG

sir_vasb16_ESO · July 2014

I gave it some thought and you are right about stealth but they should make it harder to stealth, that you have to use shadows if you dont use medium armor for ex.. Its just *** that a whole raid Sneak in Broad daylight and stack ulti with Restrostaff then zerg train and spam AoE thats thats not pvp.. You dont see zerg train in other games so Why should AoE be the mani attack Here.. So make Sneak harder for non NB and tone down AoE so its not the main abillity

there we go..

Lava_Croft · July 2014

VagabondAngel wrote: »

I don't have a solution... simply nerfing everything to the ground is a bad idea but these things are making a mockery of strategy and are beginning to feel more like an exploit than a battle.

I know 'exploit' is a buzzword on the ESO forums, but please stop using it for everything that you don't like. You might as well call it 'My Little Pony', since that makes as much sense as 'exploit'.

Morticielle · July 2014

sir_vasb16_ESO wrote: »

Stealth:
Why can all classes stealth? Also be able to stand in broad daylight in the middle of a bright field in stealth? Big groups move in sneak, Charge in and spam AOE.. Thats not PvP..

No, stealth has to stay the way it is!

ALL players can use stealth so NO ONE has a disadvantage. If you never have learned to play against stealthers then YOU must change something (your tactics) and not Zenimax has to change it with consequences for all.

Stop that "Nerf XYZ !"-Bull.*** and LEARN TO PLAY!

Honfold · July 2014

I think a good solution to the AOE zerg balls would be player collision detection. However Zenimax had already stated that they would not add it since it could reduce performance. Still, maybe it is a possibility. If player collision existed then the area of the AOE zerg would be greater meaning that they could not all fit into the keep at one time and that there would not be as many AOEs hitting in one area. Also I few heavy armored players holding block with massive spell resistance could hold off one of those zerg balls at a broken postern wall. I think collision would be great in many ways.

As for you comment on stealth, I dont think there should be any nerf or class restrictions to stealth. However, the keep guards need to turn off their thermal detection because I am sick of being 20 yards away from a keep sneaking (as a khajiit nightblade with every possible stealth skill/passive maxed) and getting spotted by a NPC guard. The guards need to have the same detection as the npcs in PVE. Also it would be nice to know when an enemy has a stealth detection potion active so I know that it was not just a stealth bug that got me killed. Maybe a red eye above them or the stealth meter eye should have an exclamation point when your around someone that has a detection potion active.

Halrloprillalar · July 2014

No. It would promote zergballing even more.

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO · July 2014

I've always thought if a game had no or next to no area spells and add collision detection, that would be probably the best pvp combat ever. Tanks could act like tanks to hold the line and it would be a more a skill based and tactical system rather than a zerg ball all hitting 1 button.

quakedawg_ESO · July 2014

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO wrote: »

I've always thought if a game had no or next to no area spells and add collision detection, that would be probably the best pvp combat ever. Tanks could act like tanks to hold the line and it would be a more a skill based and tactical system rather than a zerg ball all hitting 1 button.

So I can create a character in your alliance and go afk on a stairwell or inside a doorway blocking you from getting where you might want to go? I'll get some buddies together and make a circle around the most used NPC merchants. The griefing list would be endless. Add in some friendly fire and you'd have a huge mess.

Heck, the collision currently on NPC's is annoying enough

VagabondAngel · July 2014

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I know 'exploit' is a buzzword on the ESO forums, but please stop using it for everything that you don't like. You might as well call it 'My Little Pony', since that makes as much sense as 'exploit'.

That's the first time I've actually used that word, so you're picking the wrong person to berate. I didn't say it was anyway, I said it's beginning to feel like one and by definition, it actually is - many players are now exploiting the low-cost, fast-charge and over-lapping effects of the vampire ultimate attack and resistance is, quite literally, futile.

Now justify your my little pony comparison from your moral high-ground.

Columba · July 2014

Unlike guild fails 2, it's very easy to expose stealthers here. No.

Bashev · July 2014

Stealth is fine as it is. Just NB's skill should be fixed so they have an advantage.
About AoE I agree that something should be done. That's why I proposed to ZoS, just to create one test campaign where no AoE skills are available. Who wants to use AoE will join another campaign.
Here are my thoughts:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/114541/can-we-have-a-campaign-where-all-aoe-dps-skills-are-disabled