pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

riverdragon72 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Best to just go to cyrodiil and experience it firsthand. One picture is worth a thousand words, as they say.

Especially when the picture is a death recap.

I've been one shotted, or hit and stunned with no defense or recourse more times than I can count from DK's

By the sound of it you're so bad you could get one-shotted by lvl1 Mudcrabs.

Did you try pressing buttons?

He's referencing the knockback+root bug that DKs specifically have been abusing in PvP since beta.

Do you even PvP bro?

His first words were that he gets one-shotted, which is a blatant lie since even a level 10 gets 1.5k health in Cyro and no class does 1.5k one-hit damage. So I gave an insincere post a mocking reply, I think I was actually soft on him.

God knows, I've abused the knock-down and root myself but this is a thread about DKs being OP and this bug has got nothing to do with the DKs. It happens when you have more than one CC effect applied on you and I've had NightBlades do the same thing to me quite a few times.

That said, I have not managed to do it since the changes they made to the CC effects. I've also seen quite a few videos of other DKs try to do it lately and fail, which of course is how it should be.

When I'm not on the forums trolling trolls, yeah I PvP

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

This has been my experience as well. I'm not by any means a great player, but I read the boards and try to do the counters, but more often than not they do not work. I try to dodge roll out of the Talons, but often that does nothing (I am guessing it is the bug with multiple CC?); my character does not move. Even if it works, I almost immediately get Taloned again. I try to CC break, nothing. I try Purify... sometimes it works and I get a heal, being left with a sliver of life which is easily taken from me by Whips or whatever.

That was obviously quite bad, but that can't have been a recent experience bud.

First off, if you roll from talons you cannot get caught while in a roll (fix 1) or in fact at all for 3 seconds after (fix 2: CC immunity). Also like I said in the post above, I'm pretty sure the bug with stacking CC has been fixed.

There's a video further up the thread I think with 10 minutes worth of duels between a DK and a Templar, and while the DK tries the Charge+Talons combo many times the Templar gets up and out every time.

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Part of the problem seems to me to be that the Standard costs only 200 ultimate. My Nova from the Templar line is similar to the Standard, but costs 300 ultimate and is not enhanced by any Templar AoE CC. So I definitely feel inferior here.

I'm actually behind you all the way, Nova cost needs dropping to 200. Why the haven't done that yet, buffles me.

I have 4 VR12s, one of each class. All of them have decent equipment and I've spent quite a bit of time on each. Three of them (Except the NB) were top 100 wabba before the end of the campaign, my DK was ranked 23rd at the end, and the Sorc dropped to the mid 40s, templar was in the upper 90s. I would of been in the top 10 if I had focused on one character. I believe I speak with some authority on this matter. All 4 are on AD.

DK's are very strong, but not unbeatable. They have incredible staying power and decent damage. They're a mixture between Sorc's DPS and Templars tankiness, but weaker on both sides. This mixture makes for a potent combination in most situations since they're very well rounded. Most battles are determined not by my class, but by experience. Most newer players rush in and use up all their resources, I can just block & cc until they're out of steam and punish the hell out of them for it. PvP in this game is a battle of resource management. DK's are built for this, and do it quite well.

(Side note: I run full spell crit setup, I don't use Sybanes like Sypher's build since I can't Dragon scale as often, getting too old for that. Skill setup is almost identical)The majority of battles I lose come down to either outside assistance, being unable or unlucky to build crit and drop an ultimate (usually Corrosive armor/Soul Strike. Been moving away from standard because people are use to it now, Corrosive armor not so much). Occasionally it's because Im too aggressive on the CC/Roll dodges. Most of the time I can pin down my loss to a mistake I made, not because of another classes OPness.

I'd also like to mention before hand, that templars and DKs play almost identical in PvP. Both are solid tanks with great self-heals. Templars are better at the tankiness while DKs are slightly better at the damage.

vs Nightblades: Nightblades have the short end of the stick sadly. While In a pair they're unbeatable, 1v1 Nightblades don't have enough resources to sucessfully kill someone before they run out of steam. I see this all the time, they mark, they lotus fan, then attack and I pop GDB and beat them down without mercy. Once they pop their combo they're done, out of steam. Depending on the skill level of the pair of nightblades they may even both die because they're both completely empty.The trick is, CC break, block and wait. The upcoming equipment changes will vastly help nightblades in this regard, but as it stands, a properly built (equipment/stats) and blocking DK, or anyone for that matter will always beat a Nightblade 1v1 barring any super crit runs. Any class can do this, DKs/Templars have an easier time due to self heals. As my nightblade I find the exact same is true, all you have to do is survive the initial burst, after that they're dead. This is an issue with nightblades themselves rather than DKs or other classes.

vs Sorcs: This fight is more about positioning than it is resource management. Sorc is trying to stay away, you're trying to get close. If you close with a charge they'll bolt escape and stun you giving them the upper hand. Its a difficult dance. With good sorcs (read: ones who crystal cancel). What it comes down to is who doesn't block first. Sadly because this dance can take a while, it more often than not comes down to who gets backup first. As a sorc vs a sorc its all about the knock downs. Streaking between each other is common as are insta frags up close. Since this is an uncommon battle I tend to have the upper hand since I keep force shock on my destro aoe bar for this exact situation, many do not. I'm also more skilled at the streak dance. (The trick is to streak THROUGH them, not on them) I also use Sword/Shield or Two handed for my single target bar giving me a charge. Sorcs, like DK have excellent CC skills, both excel in this area making them quite even.

Overall powerlevel of Sorcs is strong but they have one weakness that DKs don't have, lack of good self heals. Sure sure crit surge, but that not only requires setup, but also crits. This is two actions that may or may not result in a heal, as opposed to DKs/Templars 1 step self heal. Since much of smaller scale pvp is about self healing/resource management and less about damage, sorcs end up on the bottom of the pile, or they just streak away. I'd say sorcs are currently the weakest class in terms of small scale pvp because of this reason, and the recent nerf to Bolt escape/Streak just removes our ability to disengage when its apparent we're going to lose. Now we're stuck in only mid/large group PvP where our high damage spells can go unchecked/blocked.

vs Templars: As said earlier, DKs and Templars play almost identically. There is one important difference, Templars can conserve resources better than DKs due to Sun Shield/better heals. With the recent buff to Jabs they even have comparable DPS. Theres a reason a Templar won the recent 1v1 tournament, when it comes down to it, templars are just better at the things that small scale PvP requires: Resource management and positioning.

Conclusion: While most people say DKs are the strongest OP class they only see it from their point of view. Yes a good DK is going to kill you. But you know what? So is a good Templar, so is a good sorc. Wanna know what happens if you're in AD and you meet up with Sypher or br-shield? (speaking of, wtf happened to nicole and fixate?) Yeah, thats right, you're going to lose because you aren't experienced enough. You're going to blow through your magicka and stamina while they just laugh and block. Once you're out of steam they're just going to beat you down without mercy and move on to the next victim. Wanna know a secret? I'll die to them too more often than not.

So in my opinion, an opinion from someone who actually plays all 4 classes is this:

#1 Templar, #2 DK, #3 Nightblade, #4 Sorcs

With the upcoming 1.3 patch the top 3 slots will change, who knows how DKs will fare with extra weapon crit (They're quite split between spell/weapon damage) also Nightblades are getting a serious buff to their burst damage which may make them able to effectively 1-shot. Also templars are receiving a HUGE buff to Sun Shield (which is already pretty OP) which may just push them over the edge to being the most OP killing machines in the game, and to be frank they currently are. Time will tell of course.

So no, DKs aren't overpowered, chance are you're just blowing your load a bit too quickly while your opponents hold down the block button. Something that DK's can easily punish you for doing.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Revy wrote: »

Can someone tell me how DK are OP? If its because of pvp why not do what other mmos do and to a pvp specific nerf. CC lasts 6 sec? Make it last 3 secs in pvp.

DKs are OP. Some combinations of skills and abilites even a class above OP to GOD MODE.

Examples? Plenty

a) PVP,

only very bad DK players going to lose a battle. They have many CC and one click abilities that even monkeys can use and win.

three nights ago, I did around 18000 damage to a DK according to CLS. The only things he was doing was cast scales, use gnb and use potions. he did 0 damage to me, but for 50 seconds I hammered him without success. And I couldn't even CC him, to get him under control.

After almost a minute, some of his mates came around and killed me.

Another instance. 4 DKs to be killed inside a tower, took 60 people and two wipes to do so.
They spam talons building Ultimate (they had at least one set ultimate reduction each according to their armour I saw), and rotation of 2 standards at all the time. They played well, but couldn't be broken nor kitted either.



b) PVE

The significan majority of them, can solo the Dark Anchors in Veteran areas.
And this before patch 1.2.4.
(Saw VR7 DK solo VR9 anchor, and didn't helped him, but observed him how he was doing it to learn)

DKs can even clear content in Craglorn that was designed for whole groups. And I know from my mate (DK), at vr4 decided and did all the group dungeons (normal difficulty) solo. Few hours later had cleared the lot.

At VR3 area (Shadowfen) while we were a grp of 3 gyuys (2 Templars and NB, after patch 1.1.2), trying to do the local public dungeon achievement, seeing the 6 dremora spawn in front of us who had just killed us, a VR3 DK went through, pulled both spawns (12 mobs) and wiped them in seconds.

Even my level 18 DK, feels ridiculous powerful, and for a test got him to Coldharbour killing level 45+ 3-4 mob spawns for heaven sake. And without sweating. Something my Templar struggled at level 45.



And everyone will say the same. They are overdue a big nerf, and a smaller one the Sorcerers to bring them all in line. Because even PvP has become ridiculous nowadays.

All very flawed or obsolete examples. If you can't clear a public VR3 dungeon with 2 mates, you're doing something very very very wrong. Don't put the blame on classes for that.

God mode in PvP? Don't make me laugh...

You all loved Sypher's vids, using them as an example of how DKs are OP and can win against 5-6 players. Well here's a vid of Sypher duelling a Templar and having 2 wins and 2 losses in 4 fights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM1k3jcnrvk

Edit: Brandoid FTW!

This.. That video shows how good templars really are, and they can control a fight.

DKs are not OP. Templars are actually more useful in both solomode and group mode in pvp at the moment.

The problem however is bad players blaming the opponents classes for dying.

You can't say something is OP just because they were better than you and managed to kill you in a fight.

Saying "nerf this nerf that" because you play a NB and couldnt 3 shot the player like you usually do means that NBs are OP and needs adjusting, not the opponent suriviving for 3 seconds.

I don't think they are in pvp or pve. I noticed my old pvp friends from wow on here they were rogues. If you played wow most rogues were really smart gamers that timed everything down. I assume more of these types of players got bored of being that type of class. so went DK sents all class can sneak/stun. Skill on timing on everything is key and knowing your enemy. Yes, I was a rogue as well but have not really got into pvp yet on eso. Just watch my friend on temp/ sorc play pvp. I camp 3 maxed lvl dks in wow and I was just a ok pvper with duelist title u got others out there that are far better and they just own. Even if ESO nerfs them into the ground they will find away to own you even if it takes them a few deaths. think of them as elitist jerk in pvp. What I do when I start pvping on any class is read, learn about the other classes as well, what I would in their shoes, think on most effective ways at killing you, and keep trying/trying/trying never ever ever give up. Until your dead then maybe go again and again till you run or get more for me to play with. Repeat does not matter class. If you don't think like this or something like it how do you expect to beat them. Well that is what I think happened.

So basically dont try to fight a DK head-on unless youre a templar

Revy wrote: »

So basically dont try to fight a DK head-on unless youre a templar

or another DK. Sorcs and Nightblades don't do well in the style of combat ESO has right now (see above post for details). Since they lack a quick self heal (shields don't cut it sadly) they will almost always lose in the resource management part of the fight, either they run out of stamina or magicka and just end up getting knocked down and finished off. Luckily they both have excellent burst damage and in a small group are a force to be reckoned with, only problem is a lot of the combat in ESO favors tanking over damage right now. I'm not skilled enough to comment how to solve this problem without wrecking all of combat as we know it. (That'd be reducing HP by a large percentage making the posturing phase quicker. Increasing the HP pool just prolongs this phase, meaning after the 1.3 update the divide between the strikers {nightblade/sorc} and the tanks {dk/templar} will only increase)

Not really... go ahead re-roll waste your time... in this game players mean much more then classes... the good players do not just use one bar... they use both bars every few secs one fight and constantly poping different potions...

Cyhawk wrote: »

Simple, as with any class Roll backwards (or which ever direction is closest to the edge of the standard). I mentioned resource management a few times in my post, this is why. Regardless of class, regardless of build if you run out of stamina and they unload on you, if you don't have stamina you die. Its the real reason stamina builds are inferior to magicka builds right now, you can use all your stamina for CC breaks instead of damage.

Most fights flow like this: Knockdown, early damage, opp heals/mitigates as much as possible, Posturing/damage phase (resource management is heavy here) then a final knockdown and final unloading of damage. If the attacker ran out of stamina, the opp's knockdown can't be blocked and they win. If the attacker saved their stamina and blocks the knockdown, they'll be able to counter back. High skilled battles repeat this process until someone messes up or gets a lucky set of crits. This is regardless of class, it's just templars and DKs excel in this type of battle due to quick self heals during the posturing phase.

Thanks for the advice. I really do try to roll every time I get stopped by the Talons. It just seems lately that whenever I try to roll out of the Talons/Standard combo, nothing happens. Like, I press the buttons, but my character does not move. Maybe it is the bug with being hit by multiple CC/Roots or whatever, but literally nothing happens for several seconds, and by that time it is often too late. I will try again though. Thanks.