Tonturri wrote: »

I haven't PvPed much, but...Well, first off, I loathe cast times in this game. It's a decent suggestion, but not one I think would contribute to the feel of the game and fluidity of combat. It would help, yes, but I don't think the benefits of it - Impulse Spam is easier to manage in PvP - would outweight the cons - the ability feels slow and sluggish to use.

Just from looking at one of my sorc skill trees, it looks like a swarm of people doing that would be easy to manage and take down. Or, if I was feeling adventurous, I could use Annulment with the magicka restoring more, then Bolt Escape through the lot of them, maybe applying a healing HoT or two beforehand.

Keep in mind that Impulse is an AoE from the player - they can't really choose where to put it, whereas lots of builds have ranged AoE/roots.

The best way I can relate this is to have people imagine if Dark Crystal didn't have a cast time. Sure having no cast time on the spell would be great, lots of fluidity, but how healthy would that be for the combat system?

You could have all the same half-assed responses we've seen so far such as "Well you should just sneak up on Sorcs or rush them from behind first, duh." "You should cast negate on those sorcs, duh.." "You can parry and cast immovable, etc. duh" and so-on and so-on.

The point isn't that Impulse spam is not manageable is situational ways (i.e. negate requires your group to have sorc present whose ulty is up for example), or that people are being dumb and standing in the aoe and need to L2P. It is a question of game dynamics. Just how having a cast time on Crystal Shards is healthy for game dynamics in a solo\small group context, adding a short cast time to Impulse would provide a similar dynamic benefit in large grouping contexts imo based on points made in the OP.

-Lord Shaszahan, of The Septim Bloodline

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

I'm Daggerfall Covenant, so yes, I am blue. Your points are non sequitur. Sad I must re-iterate that suggesting changes to improve the dynamics of PvP isn't crying. You are getting the two confused. If anything, it's advocating a more competitive atmosphere.

It's an AoE that does about half the damage of a single Target spell. If they nerf it like you want guess what? YOU ARE STILL GOING TO DIE as it's not the spell that is killing you it's the amount of people using it on you that does the trick! Like I said in other threads I would be more then happy to replace it as I only keep it on the bar for the guild and to counter other impluse groups.

Now the other issue is when/if they nerf it you know it's going to really *** off the Non PvPing crowd who will be all .... sorry I got the Admin nerf bat so I am watching my language Changes made for PvP also effect the PvE crowd and I never one button anything, it's more like Volcanic Rune, Talons then PULSAR and then Destructive Touch to any of those running away so I can get them too! Oh I forgot the I win Stick also which just makes EVEN MORE DEADLY to be around me!

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

Aeaeren wrote: »

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

I'm Daggerfall Covenant, so yes, I am blue. Your points are non sequitur. Sad I must re-iterate that suggesting changes to improve the dynamics of PvP isn't crying. You are getting the two confused. If anything, it's advocating a more competitive atmosphere.

It's an AoE that does about half the damage of a single Target spell. If they nerf it like you want guess what? YOU ARE STILL GOING TO DIE as it's not the spell that is killing you it's the amount of people using it on you that does the trick! Like I said in other threads I would be more then happy to replace it as I only keep it on the bar for the guild and to counter other impluse groups.

Now the other issue is when/if they nerf it you know it's going to really *** off the Non PvPing crowd who will be all .... sorry I got the Admin nerf bat so I am watching my language Changes made for PvP also effect the PvE crowd and I never one button anything, it's more like Volcanic Rune, Talons then PULSAR and then Destructive Touch to any of those running away so I can get them too! Oh I forgot the I win Stick also which just makes EVEN MORE DEADLY to be around me!

To touch on a couple of your points that made sense, I offered in the original post a reasonable suggested change. You keep calling the cast time a "nerf" but a nerf suggests the ability becomes weaker overall. To compensate for the added cast time the ability itself can be augmented to do MORE damage. This would balance out the total dps (before and after modification) for PvE environments making the impact minimal to PvE if not an enhancement. With PvP the ability can be even more powerful/useful if you get a good aoe stun off, run in, charge it up, and release.

The suggestion merely changes the way in which Impulse is used, especially in large groups. This ability would still work great in large fights once the fight has begun, but it makes the 'zerg train Impulse spam' playstyle a little less viable.

-Lord Shaszahan, of The Septim Bloodline

All it does it make sure we use it at a different times to make sure there is always enough casting and ones blasting. It's a slight adjustment really to work on the timing but it will happen quickly and you just made it hurt even more. Kind of like that Sorcs do now with Negate, you go 1st then I will be 2nd and you....
I could also change it up to like Rune then pulsar then rune then pulsar. Trust me we will find a combination of skills that will kill large groups no matter what you leave us with. Get my point? You might not like the change you get.

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

Hey Guys,

I wanted to post this suggestion to fix the zerg impulse spam tactic. The issue seems to be that large groups are able to run non-stop just spamming impulse without making themselves vulnerable. To fix this, what if Impulse was given a small cast time, say .5 sec to 1 sec. Something that is short so as not to nerf the ability to the ground for PvE, but make enough of a change that would force the caster to stand in place very briefly and be potentially vulnerable in that timeframe to interrupts. Of course damage could be slightly increased to compensate for the new cast time if needed, but I wanted to fish for thoughts on this suggestion.

-Lord Shaszahan, of The Septim Bloodline

Does anyone actually think that there is anything in this game that needs to nerfed? Maybe the answer isn't to nerf things but rather to make other things better or even to fix the stuff that is clearly broken. Unless something is a blatant exploit or broken then leave it alone.

Aeaeren wrote: »

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

Aeaeren wrote: »

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

I'm Daggerfall Covenant, so yes, I am blue. Your points are non sequitur. Sad I must re-iterate that suggesting changes to improve the dynamics of PvP isn't crying. You are getting the two confused. If anything, it's advocating a more competitive atmosphere.

It's an AoE that does about half the damage of a single Target spell. If they nerf it like you want guess what? YOU ARE STILL GOING TO DIE as it's not the spell that is killing you it's the amount of people using it on you that does the trick! Like I said in other threads I would be more then happy to replace it as I only keep it on the bar for the guild and to counter other impluse groups.

Now the other issue is when/if they nerf it you know it's going to really *** off the Non PvPing crowd who will be all .... sorry I got the Admin nerf bat so I am watching my language Changes made for PvP also effect the PvE crowd and I never one button anything, it's more like Volcanic Rune, Talons then PULSAR and then Destructive Touch to any of those running away so I can get them too! Oh I forgot the I win Stick also which just makes EVEN MORE DEADLY to be around me!

To touch on a couple of your points that made sense, I offered in the original post a reasonable suggested change. You keep calling the cast time a "nerf" but a nerf suggests the ability becomes weaker overall. To compensate for the added cast time the ability itself can be augmented to do MORE damage. This would balance out the total dps (before and after modification) for PvE environments making the impact minimal to PvE if not an enhancement. With PvP the ability can be even more powerful/useful if you get a good aoe stun off, run in, charge it up, and release.

The suggestion merely changes the way in which Impulse is used, especially in large groups. This ability would still work great in large fights once the fight has begun, but it makes the 'zerg train Impulse spam' playstyle a little less viable.

-Lord Shaszahan, of The Septim Bloodline

All it does it make sure we use it at a different times to make sure there is always enough casting and ones blasting. It's a slight adjustment really to work on the timing but it will happen quickly and you just made it hurt even more. Kind of like that Sorcs do now with Negate, you go 1st then I will be 2nd and you....
I could also change it up to like Rune then pulsar then rune then pulsar. Trust me we will find a combination of skills that will kill large groups no matter what you leave us with. Get my point? You might not like the change you get.

Yes I certainly do, but if large groups are coordinating this well then that's a fine tactic indeed. The problem again is how it's being used as a train. Even if the whole group is coordinated if they all cast at the same time, everyone is currently vulnerable as well as immobile for a brief time.

If people are getting wiped from the abilities extra damage, then this is a true scenario where they failed to get out of the way while the ability was charging. As such it would actually be more beneficial to have half you group and the other half casting at alternating times against groups of decent players.

Still it makes it a much more tactic-full scenario than the current rendition.

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

Aeaeren wrote: »

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

Aeaeren wrote: »

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

I'm Daggerfall Covenant, so yes, I am blue. Your points are non sequitur. Sad I must re-iterate that suggesting changes to improve the dynamics of PvP isn't crying. You are getting the two confused. If anything, it's advocating a more competitive atmosphere.

It's an AoE that does about half the damage of a single Target spell. If they nerf it like you want guess what? YOU ARE STILL GOING TO DIE as it's not the spell that is killing you it's the amount of people using it on you that does the trick! Like I said in other threads I would be more then happy to replace it as I only keep it on the bar for the guild and to counter other impluse groups.

Now the other issue is when/if they nerf it you know it's going to really *** off the Non PvPing crowd who will be all .... sorry I got the Admin nerf bat so I am watching my language Changes made for PvP also effect the PvE crowd and I never one button anything, it's more like Volcanic Rune, Talons then PULSAR and then Destructive Touch to any of those running away so I can get them too! Oh I forgot the I win Stick also which just makes EVEN MORE DEADLY to be around me!

To touch on a couple of your points that made sense, I offered in the original post a reasonable suggested change. You keep calling the cast time a "nerf" but a nerf suggests the ability becomes weaker overall. To compensate for the added cast time the ability itself can be augmented to do MORE damage. This would balance out the total dps (before and after modification) for PvE environments making the impact minimal to PvE if not an enhancement. With PvP the ability can be even more powerful/useful if you get a good aoe stun off, run in, charge it up, and release.

The suggestion merely changes the way in which Impulse is used, especially in large groups. This ability would still work great in large fights once the fight has begun, but it makes the 'zerg train Impulse spam' playstyle a little less viable.

-Lord Shaszahan, of The Septim Bloodline

All it does it make sure we use it at a different times to make sure there is always enough casting and ones blasting. It's a slight adjustment really to work on the timing but it will happen quickly and you just made it hurt even more. Kind of like that Sorcs do now with Negate, you go 1st then I will be 2nd and you....
I could also change it up to like Rune then pulsar then rune then pulsar. Trust me we will find a combination of skills that will kill large groups no matter what you leave us with. Get my point? You might not like the change you get.

Yes I certainly do, but if large groups are coordinating this well then that's a fine tactic indeed. The problem again is how it's being used as a train. Even if the whole group is coordinated if they all cast at the same time, everyone is currently vulnerable as well as immobile for a brief time.

If people are getting wiped from the abilities extra damage, then this is a true scenario where they failed to get out of the way while the ability was charging. As such it would actually be more beneficial to have half you group and the other half casting at alternating times against groups of decent players.

Still it makes it a much more tactic-full scenario than the current rendition.

But we are vulnerable, nothing protects us with this spell it doesn't have any CC abilities attached to it. I can be negated, ambushed, stunned slamed ect. Like I said it't not the spell its the group and no matter what they do if you ain't got the numbers or are not extremely well organized you are going to lose no matter what.

eliisra wrote: »

Might as well suggest a fix for Barrier/Rapid Maneuvre/Purge spamming lol.

Because it's not the actual Impulse that's hard to counter. It's the fact that the entire blob is immune to root, snares, knock backs/downs and fully embedded in multiple barriers.

This while you're own AoE is limited to only effect 6 players.

Nerfing Impulse to the ground wont change a thing. The blob will use other instant AoE abilities, while running people down.

But wait didn't someone say we were one button non intellectuals zergers? I mean using barrier and purge and all that is kind of like a strategy right?

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

Hey Guys,

I wanted to post this suggestion to fix the zerg impulse spam tactic. The issue seems to be that large groups are able to run non-stop just spamming impulse without making themselves vulnerable. To fix this, what if Impulse was given a small cast time, say .5 sec to 1 sec. Something that is short so as not to nerf the ability to the ground for PvE, but make enough of a change that would force the caster to stand in place very briefly and be potentially vulnerable in that timeframe to interrupts. Of course damage could be slightly increased to compensate for the new cast time if needed, but I wanted to fish for thoughts on this suggestion.

-Lord Shaszahan, of The Septim Bloodline

Does anyone actually think that there is anything in this game that needs to nerfed? Maybe the answer isn't to nerf things but rather to make other things better or even to fix the stuff that is clearly broken. Unless something is a blatant exploit or broken then leave it alone.

This is the point of my suggestion you must have missed.

-Lord Shaszahan, of The Septim Bloodline

I'm sorry I don't think I missed anything. You did not suggest making it better you suggested a nerf to impulse. I bolded what you suggested to be a "fix". You can call it a "fix" or whatever you want, but it's still a nerf. For it to be a fix then the spell would have to be broken or not functioning in a way that was intended. It seems like it's working just fine, you just don't like it.

Just seems time would be better spent trying to figure out the multiple counters that other players are using. The good teams will always find another way.

Lowbei wrote: »

nukeyoo wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

the cast time was 2secs on no cooldown with 2sec pulses for dd level dps, and the lock could dump uninterruptably (1-2sec animations like eso) for pbaes.

sorry if that crushes your feeble attempt at an argument champ ☺️

How does you confirming a cast time for Bainshees and avoiding answering how many times a warlock can"dump uniterruptably" without reloading chambers "crush my feeble attempt at an argument"? Not to mention avoiding all the other questions of innate abilities for reducing damage/stopping CC.

How many times can the warlock "dump uninterruptably" before they would need to reload their chambers? And I thought we were talking about insta cast abilities not ones that require a 2 second interruptable cast?

Lets face it, Interruptable cast times... Limited dumping of chambers... Anyone attempting to make these comparisons seriously would get laughed off of daoc servers. No offense, buttercup.

jussayin

lol you dont cast the pulse during the fight, its up before the fight and has no timer. and locks could potentially dump 4 chambers, which was plenty enough to kill anything,

you fail, as daoc clearly had this thing you hate, despite your attempts to downplay it.

did you have any other points or was that it, booboo?

Yes please continue to downplay the limitations of the aoe you're presenting found in DAoC as if they are of no consequence and are on equal terms with impulse/block spam.

Continued aversion and deflecting is testament to a lack in ability to back up your argument. Perhaps we should ask the DAoC community whether introduction of a spammable ability combination such impulse/block (resources being the only limitation) would be acceptable?

I doubt you played DAoC at all before MoC nerf, but if you did. How'd the community like a limited time period of uninterruptable spells that had cast times? Oh that's right... they nerfed it, buttercup.

*edit jussayin

Lowbei wrote: »

played daoc since its beta (you must not see signatures) and the competitive 8v8 community was fine with moc in gvg.

the nerf only came when masses of free rp zerglings whined about getting farmed.

now you are whining for a nerf.

coincidence?

No offense, but I've find it common place that anyone needing to tell people who they were or are in their signatures are probably not worth remembering. So I don't pay them much mind. Sorry!

I see we're now diverting from DAoC community to a more specific "competitive 8v8 community" to try and fit the hole in your argument. Deflecting from the obvious fact that it was in fact nerfed because the daoc community spoke and the developers listened.

Could you please quote me where I "whined for a nerf"?

Can't quite fill all the current holes in your argument and you keep creating new ones, huh buttercup?

jussayin

Lowbei wrote: »

my point still stands as valid, you are not experienced on the topic you discuss.

What does it matter that he does or does not play much PvP?
Any changes to a skill will effect everyone who uses it, whether PvP or PvE. so all have a right to comment.

Lowbei wrote: »

most daoc players used the vnboards, since daoc had no official forums, and most all of them had their toons in their sigs, since that game had about 50ish classes. you obviously dont have any toons worth mentioning from there, no offense.

and theres no difference between daoc zergers whining till moc was nerfed, and eso zergers whining until ae caps were introduced.

crushed, again, sorry "buttercup"

You're more then welcome to state as many reasons as you'd like for wanting people to recognize you from your signature. Like I said anybody worth remembering is usually due to their game play; not some signature. The reason I don't pay them much mind.

The people I might care about recognizing me; do so. And the others well there seems to be a lack of caring. I'm not some try hard that thinks his actions in a video game need recognition.

So now we're comparing a nerf to a single ability to a nerf on all aoe caps... LOL

Please press it again and tell me how I've been "crushed", buttercup.