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Fix for Impulse Spam (Suggestion)
shanersimms_ESO
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Hey Guys,
I wanted to post this suggestion to fix the zerg impulse spam tactic. The issue seems to be that large groups are able to run non-stop just spamming impulse without making themselves vulnerable. To fix this, what if Impulse was given a small cast time, say .5 sec to 1 sec. Something that is short so as not to nerf the ability to the ground for PvE, but make enough of a change that would force the caster to stand in place very briefly and be potentially vulnerable in that timeframe to interrupts. Of course damage could be slightly increased to compensate for the new cast time if needed, but I wanted to fish for thoughts on this suggestion.
-Lord Shaszahan, of The Septim Bloodline
I wanted to post this suggestion to fix the zerg impulse spam tactic. The issue seems to be that large groups are able to run non-stop just spamming impulse without making themselves vulnerable. To fix this, what if Impulse was given a small cast time, say .5 sec to 1 sec. Something that is short so as not to nerf the ability to the ground for PvE, but make enough of a change that would force the caster to stand in place very briefly and be potentially vulnerable in that timeframe to interrupts. Of course damage could be slightly increased to compensate for the new cast time if needed, but I wanted to fish for thoughts on this suggestion.
-Lord Shaszahan, of The Septim Bloodline
-Lord Shaszahan the Archmage, of The Septim Bloodline
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Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭or, players can simply not stand in aoes.
the concept that an aoe is op because it hurts if you stand in it, is absolutely hilarious. people would have been laughed off of daoc servers for such a statement.
fyi, i bomb large groups with my smallman, and usually with overload, as impulse is not necessary and is inferior to it.4 -
shanersimms_ESO✭✭✭or, players can simply not stand in aoes.
the concept that an aoe is op because it hurts if you stand in it, is absolutely hilarious. people would have been laughed off of daoc servers for such a statement.
fyi, i bomb large groups with my smallman, and usually with overload, as impulse is not necessary and is inferior to it.
As unhelpful as your comment is, it has nothing to do with people standing in it, it's the fact that if you're fortifying a position and 40-50 people run in wielding staffs blazing Impulse, to NOT stand in that aoe requires everyone to scatter, thus de-fortifying the position. Since the initiators can pop immovable when charging in they just roll in giant zerg balls casting impulse without much of a counter.
The discussion had nothing to do with players dying from it, it's the fact that the tactic caters to the zerg train and regardless if people are dying there's little defense other than to either scatter and de-fortify the position, or fight fire with fire and use the similar tactics.
-Lord Shaszahan the Archmage, of The Septim Bloodline4 -
Halrloprillalar✭✭✭✭✭.... or you could just hit them from behind with your own bomb squad, aoe cc, dispel, negate, root and destroy with whatever flavour aoe you prefer
BEEP BEEEEP"nerf rock, paper is fine" - scissors
https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/editor/2n/35zpb92kfggx.gif3 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭shanersimms_ESO wrote: »or, players can simply not stand in aoes.
the concept that an aoe is op because it hurts if you stand in it, is absolutely hilarious. people would have been laughed off of daoc servers for such a statement.
fyi, i bomb large groups with my smallman, and usually with overload, as impulse is not necessary and is inferior to it.
As unhelpful as your comment is, it has nothing to do with people standing in it, it's the fact that if you're fortifying a position and 40-50 people run in wielding staffs blazing Impulse, to NOT stand in that aoe requires everyone to scatter, thus de-fortifying the position. Since the initiators can pop immovable when charging in they just roll in giant zerg balls casting impulse without much of a counter.
The discussion had nothing to do with players dying from it, it's the fact that the tactic caters to the zerg train and regardless if people are dying there's little defense other than to either scatter and de-fortify the position, or fight fire with fire and use the similar tactics.
sorry, sounds like zerger problems to me. why not abandon the position anyway? who cares?
id just funnel them and burn them all up with overloads, talons and negates. it sounds like your group had no defensive tactics to combat it, and died.
jussayin.2 -
shanersimms_ESO✭✭✭Halrloprillalar wrote: ».... or you could just hit them from behind with your own bomb squad, aoe cc, dispel, negate, root and destroy with whatever flavour aoe you prefer
BEEP BEEEEP
True you could try, but the aoe cc and/root doesn't work well when they're popping immovable on the initiate. The dispel doesn't matter because it's not the DOT that kills you if you die... it's the 45 impulses you are getting hit with at the same time.
Negate would be viable, but the point I'm trying to make is that I feel there could be more dynamic combat tactics implemented that would make taking a defended node something more than: "OK EVERYONE, SPRINT NOW.... IMMOVABLE... ANNNNNND: 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5..
Yay we won the node! lol
-Lord Shaszahan, of The Septim Bloodline
-Lord Shaszahan the Archmage, of The Septim Bloodline1 -
shanersimms_ESO✭✭✭i just cant wait till all the "waah i died to X, please nerf X" posts are done.
Right because making a suggestion that could make the game more enjoyable and dynamic is the product of crying. You didn't even read the part where I mentioned dying to the tactic isn't really the problem. The logic.... is... impeccable.....-Lord Shaszahan the Archmage, of The Septim Bloodline0 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭no, it would not make the game more enjoyable, thats your opinion.
and like i said, such an opinion would get you laughed off of daoc servers, no offense.0 -
shanersimms_ESO✭✭✭no, it would not make the game more enjoyable, thats your opinion.
and like i said, such an opinion would get you laughed off of daoc servers, no offense.
That's fine, how's that game doing by the way?
The suggestion is absolutely an opinion, and as you pointed out, one that I believe would improve upon the game. This thread was intended to get feedback pro/con/alternative on that opinion.
-Lord Shaszahan, of The Septim Bloodline-Lord Shaszahan the Archmage, of The Septim Bloodline1 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭you got feedback on that opinion and whined about it lol
and that game is still pay2play and has been around for 13 years now. if its graphics and animations were current, it would be #1 in the rvr/pvp market, undebatable. not to mention that this games rvr is directly built based on daocs rvr specs.
impulse is fine, players just need to learn to play better to counter itEdited by Lowbei on July 9, 2014 10:28PM0 -
shanersimms_ESO✭✭✭you got feedback on that opinion and whined about it lol
and that game is still pay2play and has been around for 13 years now. if its graphics and animations were current, it would be #1 in the rvr/pvp market, undebatable. not to mention that this games rvr is directly built based on daocs rvr specs.
impulse is fine, players just need to learn to play better to counter it
See you're still not quite grasping what's going on here. But that's ok, I'll explain it. Saying your comments aren't helpful and then explaining why is not whining. It's a key element of any proper debate, something you may eventually run into some day.
Furthermore, "if's" don't lend themselves to facts, and an opinion of a group of people you are speaking for on general "aoe" abilities has no context in this particular game and not much bearing on whether the proposed change would make this game more or less dynamic and enjoyable.
With that, your opinion that Impulse is fine is noted, although I don't personally feel you provide any compelling evidence to support that claim.-Lord Shaszahan the Archmage, of The Septim Bloodline1 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭lol again, i cant wait till all the "waah i died to x so please nerf x" posts are done
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Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭next time you should move away from the aoes.
now you know, and knowing is half the battle, G I JOE!
Edited by Lowbei on July 9, 2014 11:39PM0 -
Imperator_Clydus✭✭✭✭Impulse is only part of the problem. The issue herein lies with AOEs in general and how they are dispersed. AOE is the optimal tactic for AvA. Unless ZOS takes steps to rectify this, so other tactics are actually possible, nerfing impulse alone won't fix a lot.The First Daggerfall Emperor of Tamriel on Bloodthorn and Guild Leader of Shehai2 -
quakedawg_ESO✭✭✭lolz! One hella large (60+) DC Pulsar spamming zerg on Wabba. Love it! Tonight is already epic!Pro Tip: Form a group of 4 and hang out with the zerg. Now you can claim you only run with 4. I'm l33t
'I've never died in AvA. Undefeated!'
'My group of 4 will often take on 100+ with no problem. I have videos to prove it'
'All the abilities on my keyboard require real skill to spam'0 -
Imperator_Clydus wrote: »Impulse is only part of the problem. The issue herein lies with AOEs in general and how they are dispersed. AOE is the optimal tactic for AvA. Unless ZOS takes steps to rectify this, so other tactics are actually possible, nerfing impulse alone won't fix a lot.
Yep, people only spam AoE skills and think they are good players and "coordinated groups" killing people that refuse to use AoEs. And if we ask about balance, they tell us "learn to play". I would like to see how many of them can play effectively without aoes.
The only way to counter aoes is use more aoes.Debon Templar VR14 Thorn Blade (EU)
Gaunnes DK VR14 Haderus (EU)4 -
quakedawg_ESO✭✭✭I really don't mind the AOE. We've learned to adapt. No different than spamming <insert latest FOTM skill>. Now, 60-70 people is a bit over kill but apparently they feel they need that many. Whatever. Its war! Adapt or release!
Pro Tip: Form a group of 4 and hang out with the zerg. Now you can claim you only run with 4. I'm l33t
'I've never died in AvA. Undefeated!'
'My group of 4 will often take on 100+ with no problem. I have videos to prove it'
'All the abilities on my keyboard require real skill to spam'2 -
HazardousNovex✭✭✭Impulse is so easy to counter, let them waste their magicka and stamina in their spam, then root them and then use negate magic on them. They have been instantly stopped from spamming impulse and you can kill them easily.Novexus - VR12 Dragonknight
DiE - Oceanic PvP
www.dieguild.com.au3 -
nukeyoo✭✭✭the concept that an aoe is op because it hurts if you stand in it, is absolutely hilarious. people would have been laughed off of daoc servers for such a statement.
Anybody proposing a insta cast pbaoe ability with no cool down that does as much, if not more, damage as single target abilities that is cast'able while holding block which reduces incoming damage and stops CC would have been "laughed off of daoc servers" for such a proposal.and like i said, such an opinion would get you laughed off of daoc servers, no offense.
"No offense" but if you're going to make game community comparisons over certain game concepts like aoe. The game concepts should be similar otherwise speculating how a community would react has no bearing.
jussayin.- done w/ it4 -
Aeaeren✭✭✭arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »Imperator_Clydus wrote: »Impulse is only part of the problem. The issue herein lies with AOEs in general and how they are dispersed. AOE is the optimal tactic for AvA. Unless ZOS takes steps to rectify this, so other tactics are actually possible, nerfing impulse alone won't fix a lot.
Yep, people only spam AoE skills and think they are good players and "coordinated groups" killing people that refuse to use AoEs. And if we ask about balance, they tell us "learn to play". I would like to see how many of them can play effectively without aoes.
The only way to counter aoes is use more aoes.
Balance is YOU CAN DO IT ALSO. You chose not to AoE, ok there are methods that can be used to kill them but that requires some work, no you would rather ZOS do that work for you and that is why you are getting the push back. Balance in this game could be about every side having the same abilities and access to the same things. Not about balance between the classes.
Edited by Aeaeren on July 10, 2014 1:12PM0 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭the concept that an aoe is op because it hurts if you stand in it, is absolutely hilarious. people would have been laughed off of daoc servers for such a statement.
Anybody proposing a insta cast pbaoe ability with no cool down that does as much, if not more, damage as single target abilities that is cast'able while holding block which reduces incoming damage and stops CC would have been "laughed off of daoc servers" for such a proposal.and like i said, such an opinion would get you laughed off of daoc servers, no offense.
"No offense" but if you're going to make game community comparisons over certain game concepts like aoe. The game concepts should be similar otherwise speculating how a community would react has no bearing.
jussayin.
you mean like bainshees pulsing pbae that hit for as much as their dds? oh, right, or perhaps warlocks with some chambered bombs?
and i dunno about you, but impulse only hits half as hard as my single target dps.
jussayinEdited by Lowbei on July 10, 2014 2:05PM0 -
yelloweyedemon✭✭✭I don't care about the skill for PvP. It's a zerg skill and I stay away from skill-less zergers, unless I find them on their own/small group, where I just 3 shot them.
Although this ability is plain stupid. It can be spammed to the point everything dies before the mage is out of magicka. PVE wise 80% of the light armoured mages I see, just charge in a group of mobs and spam impulse till the mobs are dead. Not sure why ZoS supports this kind of playstyle.
In my opinion, impulse should either have a small induction, or drawbacks when you spam it (like bolt escape)1 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭I haven't PvPed much, but...Well, first off, I loathe cast times in this game. It's a decent suggestion, but not one I think would contribute to the feel of the game and fluidity of combat. It would help, yes, but I don't think the benefits of it - Impulse Spam is easier to manage in PvP - would outweight the cons - the ability feels slow and sluggish to use.
Just from looking at one of my sorc skill trees, it looks like a swarm of people doing that would be easy to manage and take down. Or, if I was feeling adventurous, I could use Annulment with the magicka restoring more, then Bolt Escape through the lot of them, maybe applying a healing HoT or two beforehand.
Keep in mind that Impulse is an AoE from the player - they can't really choose where to put it, whereas lots of builds have ranged AoE/roots.0 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭so you dont pvp and havent experienced what we are talking about, but want to comment anyway.
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Aeaeren✭✭✭well I think Invasiion/Ambush ect should be nerf as they knock me down and well I get killed and all kinds of horrible life altering things. I mean I have nightmares over this and wake up screaming because some big baddie knocked me down or off my pretty horse. I wasn't doing anything really yup, NERF EM! Pleeeasssee so I can ride around looking all important on my horse! My horse wants an apology from that nasty Nightblade who Ambushed me the other night!!!!!!
/rolls eyes
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