Werewolf - ZOS made me LOL

GunemCleric · July 2014

Templars are not garbage, there are a couple powerful builds, but never meant for DPS, they have the highest HPS in the game and can be nearly unkillable, one in my guild can and has killed 3 DKs

Vampires are not garbage either, they can be rigged with equipment for any class to be DPS, assassins, in the case of a Templar, even more unkillable (i do not current know a Templar Vamp, but it would be a good one)

DKs are are supposed to be powerful and fun to play.

There is like 40 years of lore behind these archetypes. The day when a thief is toe-to-toe with a fully armored warrior is a bad day. same goes for any matchup here. Nothing should toe-to-toe a DK, or out magic a Sorc, or out crit/strike a NB, or out heal a Templar.
DK (knight,fighter,warrior,...,hard/strong)
Sorc (mage,wizard,...,soft/dangerous)
NB (thief,assassin,...,med/deadly)
Templar (druid,paladin,...,hard/tough)

Any class with a good build (not perfect or min/max) can kill any other class with a good build if they play to their archetype. If you are level 20 and trying to shadow strike me in plain view (note the "bait" in my signature) then I will crush you like the bug you imitating, but if you snipe, hide, poison, strike like a proper assassin (and for the love of god don't try it with my banner down /smackforehead) then you are actually dangerous.

And WW are garbage, i got mine like 2 weeks after gen release and have never been useful except to give it to other (for free) and irritate the peeps who sell bites.

Obscure · July 2014

Shunravi wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

Werewolf Recommendation:

1) You can CC break in WW form (not sure if this was fixed yet)
2) You are immune to CC while transforming
3) Incoming Damage capped to 3% of maximum health while transforming
4) Transformation is a toggle
5) Werewolf skills consume ultimate
6) Werewolf now has 5 skills instead of 3:
• Hircine's Call: summons two wolves to attack your target
• Feral Fortitude: clears negative status effects and restores health over time

It's not "may fix" time @ZOS, it's "do or die" time. Werewolf is laughably bad; it's an embarrassment in game design.

1. Absolutely necessary. If nothing else, this. Not being able to break cc, or even have something that reduces cc effectiveness makes what should be a terrifying predator into a puppy.
2. Yes
3. Absolutely
4. Yes. The transformation takes time, that's all the balance you need. Perhaps a small initial ultimate cost for it though.
5. Awesome. Either this, or ultimate drains while in form. The current duration would have the same overall cost, but it woulden't be blown all at once. Ultimate can be gained with devour, and any other skill that extends duration. You would gain ultimate instead of bumping a timer. Pack leader would reduce ultimate costs of duration, or stay the same.
6. I like those skills. Seeing a pack of werewolves rush the field with wolves would give a nice threat factor. With cc and aoe being what they are, it may or may not be op... The cc break goes with #1.

Just to expand on the suggested concepts:
4) Much like Overload, you'd need to have the Ultimate fully charged in order to toggle it on. This feature is mostly to allow the player to exit the form prematurely and still have Ultimate left over to use for an Ultimate on the secondary bar, much how I use Overload on my Sorc.
EX: toggle on Werewolf for a pounce gap closer, toggle off Werewolf, then use a Negate Magic. Substantially increases build versatility and play style variety along with increasing the skill ceiling in usage.

5) Ultimate would need to drain overtime while in the form and be used for skills. Feeding (and taking damage) would restore Ultimate to prolong the transformation. This is to ensure the passive skills active when in the form aren't exploited by permanently staying in the form, whilst at the same time ensuring its substantial enough to allow for the player to learn use the form efficiently.

Sonja · July 2014

What i think werewolf needs is next:

1)Lower ultimate cost

2)Skyrim running animation (run on all four legs), it would make werewolf a lot more beastly.

3)Give buffs to werewolves while in human form too.

4)Give werewolves ability to break CC.

5)Give werewolves full action bar instead of just two abilities, give them similar abilities to what NPC werewolves use.

6)Make werewolf Berserker morph black fur with red eyes, as it stands now it looks just the same like someone who became a werewolf 10 seconds ago by doing the appropriate quest

7)Give werewolves 10% damage reduction while in beast form.

@ZoS_JessicaFolsom @ZoS_GinaBruno As it stands now in its current form werewolf is utter waste of skill points, it will only get you killed in pvp and kicked from groups in pve dungeons not to mention trials.

nerrollus · July 2014

Some worthwhile buffs out of WW form would make a big difference for me ... You basically take permanent debuff for a toy you can use everyone once in awhile for a few seconds.

Increased HP regen and staminate or buffs to both. SOMETHING useful.

Sonja · July 2014

You take +59% damage while having no gain whatsoever.....

9% from FG Slayer passive which everyone have and + 50% damage from every single bow user in pvp and poison users in general (dungeons).

NorthernFury · July 2014

I agree with y'all, WW is absolutely horrible, other than for RP purposes.

I remember when the game was brand new, and levelling up and camping out in Reaper's March, trying to find a WW before the a-holes killed it (remember when people were CHARGING for WW/Vamp bites?!) so that I could get bitten.....I finally did, levelled it up, and then realized...HEY! I am much weaker using WW than just using my own skills.

Cured it as soon as I could. Bottom line: It needs a total rework, not just a tweak or two.

wafffllesss · July 2014

Shouldn't we be kicked off the fighters guild once we become WW or Vampire? That way there would be a reason not to become one of the two...

When I say kick, understand: We could not use Fighters guild skills but could still do the questline.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · July 2014

Fighters guild shouldnt even be the anti-WW/Vamp skill line but thats written elsewhere.

Its funny that they MIGHT fix werewolf. How can you not be sure that you will adjust something that needs adjustment :? Mindblown.

Tremulous · July 2014

I may just be weird but I thought I broke out of a CC as a WW before...

Katniss_Everlark · July 2014

Yes we do need a fix. I'd like to think that ZOS just chose horrible wording & they mean that they will be fixing it & looking into way to make it better. Using the word "may" just sounds like it could get fixed or it won't get fixed. Hopefully we get some fixes soon that actually work & help us out while we're in combat at least in pve. I don't change in pvp cause of players who have the passive from Fighter's Guild. I don't want to be an easy kill & give the enemy some easy AP.

Evandus wrote: »

The missing squeaky wheels and grinding gears on the forums regarding Werewolf skill line users has resulted in this. I hate to say it, but you folks need to be making some noise. Perhaps then our reactionary powers that be might actually bring the discussion to the dev table.

@Evandus‌, we have been making noise. I've found plenty of forums about how WW are under powered & pointless at this point in time. I've posted on a few of them so I do know that they are there.

Sonja wrote: »

Everyone ask yourselves, why do you never (extremly rarely) see anyone transform into a werewolf in Cyrodiil?

Because werewolf is worst skill line and worst ultimate in whole game!

@Sonja‌, I've seen a few from my pvp guild & myself but it's only against the NPCs not other players. Other than that you never see us change into WW form.

liquid_wolf wrote: »

When I'm in my human form... I don't see too many obvious benefits from being a werewolf. I really wish there was something we gained in human form.

@liquid_wolf‌, I completely agree with you. In our human form we have no bonus or benefits to being a WW. Obviously it'd probably be a passive of some sort but it'd be better than nothing.

Tremulous wrote: »

I've been looking and asking but no one says anything about this... Do argonians have a different ww model?

@Tremulous‌, Not that I've noticed. I believe every one looks the same in WW form. It just depends what they morph the ultimate into for the color of the fur to change.

Obscure wrote: »

Werewolf Recommendation:

1) You can CC break in WW form (not sure if this was fixed yet)
2) You are immune to CC while transforming
3) Incoming Damage capped to 3% of maximum health while transforming
4) Transformation is a toggle
5) Werewolf skills consume ultimate
6) Werewolf now has 5 skills instead of 3:
• Hircine's Call: summons two wolves to attack your target
• Feral Fortitude: clears negative status effects and restores health over time

It's not "may fix" time @ZOS, it's "do or die" time. Werewolf is laughably bad; it's an embarrassment in game design.

@Obscure‌, There's only 2 abilities unless you're counting the ultimate as an ability. I do like the 2 ability ideas you came up with. Those would be awesome.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

When you transform you can't heal, revive, cc break, roll, trade or use any of your class skills that enough should be enough reasoning to make werewolf permanent.

@JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO‌, I've been able to "dodge roll" so to speak. When I do it my WW goes to all fours & moonwalks back out of the AOE area indicated on the ground.

Tremulous wrote: »

I feel like the WW passive which increases your stam should also apply to your human form. The passive should apply to your human form as long as you have the ultimate slotted.

The only thing you get in human form for being a ww are the negatives. That should change.

@Tremulous‌, That'd be a nice idea for that passive to apply to human form as well as long as that is the ultimate slotted. Having only negatives does need to change.

Tremulous wrote: »

Do female toons have their own ww model?

I feel like they should... don't take away boobies... what did boobies ever do to you?

@Tremulous‌, No we females don't have our own ww model. We look like every other ww out there.

Katniss_Everlark · July 2014

Sonja wrote: »

@ZoS_JessicaFolsom @ZoS_GinaBruno As it stands now in its current form werewolf is utter waste of skill points, it will only get you killed in pvp and kicked from groups in pve dungeons not to mention trials.

@Sonja‌, Is this if you become a WW while in the dungeons or trials? I've never been kicked from a group but that's probably because the other 2 players know they'd loose their healer if they kicked me since my boyfriend is always the healer.

Tremulous · July 2014

Katniss_Everlark wrote: »

Sonja wrote: »

@ZoS_JessicaFolsom @ZoS_GinaBruno As it stands now in its current form werewolf is utter waste of skill points, it will only get you killed in pvp and kicked from groups in pve dungeons not to mention trials.

@Sonja‌, Is this if you become a WW while in the dungeons or trials? I've never been kicked from a group but that's probably because the other 2 players know they'd loose their healer if they kicked me since my boyfriend is always the healer.

I'm not vet or anything but I've saved a few of my dungeon runs by popping my WW ultimate.

TheBull · July 2014

If your group (Cyrodill) has a Pack Leader WW and that WW has healers, you group is much stronger for it.

WW works, but there is a heck of learning curve. The problem is new WWs change so infrequently, they never learn how to play!

WWs you are not DKs. You will not tank the zerg... Think like an animal. Leap, fear, gtfo. Rinse and repeat while eating and and smacking along the way.

Timing is EVERYthing. That's the learning curve. Hard to learn when the transform cost is so high...

Katniss_Everlark · July 2014

Tremulous wrote: »

Katniss_Everlark wrote: »

Sonja wrote: »

@ZoS_JessicaFolsom @ZoS_GinaBruno As it stands now in its current form werewolf is utter waste of skill points, it will only get you killed in pvp and kicked from groups in pve dungeons not to mention trials.

@Sonja‌, Is this if you become a WW while in the dungeons or trials? I've never been kicked from a group but that's probably because the other 2 players know they'd loose their healer if they kicked me since my boyfriend is always the healer.

I'm not vet or anything but I've saved a few of my dungeon runs by popping my WW ultimate.

I haven't done any of the vet dungeons yet so I'm not sure if that's what he means. I've done the same when I was lvling & going through the regular dungeons.

Obscure · July 2014

Tremulous wrote: »

Do female toons have their own ww model?

I feel like they should... don't take away boobies... what did boobies ever do to you?

Well if we're going to be fair, they should have 6 boobs...on their abdomen...

Besides, gender is a non factor when it comes to Daedra, and Werewolves being of Hircine reflect that appropriatly. They have no visible gender based organs, thus they are appropriately neither male nor female despite their masculine musculature. Hircine made them to be terrifying, not to be sexy.

Katniss_Everlark · July 2014

Obscure wrote: »

Tremulous wrote: »

Do female toons have their own ww model?

I feel like they should... don't take away boobies... what did boobies ever do to you?

Well if we're going to be fair, they should have 6 boobs...on their abdomen...

Besides, gender is a non factor when it comes to Daedra, and Werewolves being of Hircine reflect that appropriatly. They have no visible gender based organs, thus they are appropriately neither male nor female despite their masculine musculature. Hircine made them to be terrifying, not to be sexy.

@Obscure‌, That is a very good point.

Tremulous · July 2014

Obscure wrote: »

Tremulous wrote: »

Do female toons have their own ww model?

I feel like they should... don't take away boobies... what did boobies ever do to you?

Well if we're going to be fair, they should have 6 boobs...on their abdomen...

Besides, gender is a non factor when it comes to Daedra, and Werewolves being of Hircine reflect that appropriatly. They have no visible gender based organs, thus they are appropriately neither male nor female despite their masculine musculature. Hircine made them to be terrifying, not to be sexy.

boobies hater....

Kafolarbear · July 2014

I seriously hope that they are just setting our expectations low so that they can WOW us with a good WW Re-Vamp.

Obscure · July 2014

Tremulous wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

Tremulous wrote: »

Do female toons have their own ww model?

I feel like they should... don't take away boobies... what did boobies ever do to you?

Well if we're going to be fair, they should have 6 boobs...on their abdomen...

Besides, gender is a non factor when it comes to Daedra, and Werewolves being of Hircine reflect that appropriatly. They have no visible gender based organs, thus they are appropriately neither male nor female despite their masculine musculature. Hircine made them to be terrifying, not to be sexy.

boobies hater....

=P

Katniss_Everlark · July 2014

Kafolarbear wrote: »

I seriously hope that they are just setting our expectations low so that they can WOW us with a good WW Re-Vamp.

I hope so as well @Kafolarbear‌.

Arsenic_Touch · July 2014

Kafolarbear wrote: »

I seriously hope that they are just setting our expectations low so that they can WOW us with a good WW Re-Vamp.

Haha....

Malpherian · July 2014

Both Vampires and WW are garbage currently, But honestly, I mean you work to get to be one (even finding someone to bite you is a chore).

You SHOULD be OP. I mean realistically the fighters guild people are OP as *** against Vamps and WW, seems the balance here would be to make Vamps and WW OP as *** also, that way you ahve 1 of 3 OP end game choices,

Then add them as actual classes:

You must complete the QUESTLINE in order to unlock this class on your character Creation screen!!!!!

* Add Crusader as a Class (After a long and hard quest from the Dawngaurd)

* Add Vampire a a Class (After a long and hard quest in the current Vampire ***
form)

* Add WereWolf as a Class (After a long and hard questline in the current WW *** form)

Mori · July 2014

good stuff being written in this topic, now to make it happen..
something really has to happen, and very soon - or even more ppl will leave the game.

The_Sadist · July 2014

While I'm all for fixing the Werewolf skill line there's quite a few extremely over powered suggestions being thrown around and agreed with.

Simply put I feel that:

Reworking the passives to have have an impact while in 'human' form, even if it's slightly reduced, is an awesome idea. That being said, TES lore is a bit ambiguous when it comes what sort of powers a 'human' gets when not in Werewolf form. If I recall no game actually gave increased strength, speed etc etc for an individual who had lycanthropy, you simply receive immunity to basic disease and paralysis.
Reworking spells is also a good idea, however I was also under the assumption that a World skill line consisted of 2 spells and an ultimate, I think adding more spells wouldn't be ideal. Making the ultimate a toggle is widely discussed and I don't see why not. Perhaps making the spells Werewolves get have a 'human' counterpart could be considered. So using pounce while not transformed could deal less damage and knock an enemy back, likewise roar could be some sort of battle cry buff, spitballing here.
Allow Werewolves to block and break out of CC, but perhaps not allowing them to resurrect isn't a bad thing, given the blood thirsty nature and all that jazz.
Perhaps change a passive to include some sort of self heal outside of feeding (heal for x% of damage dealt sort of thing). That being said I honestly don't think Werewolves should get one. Perhaps a massive boost to Health regeneration attached to another passive could be an idea, but a raw heal passive might be a bit much.
Perhaps make spells dependent on your ultimate morph. It would be awesome if pack leader had group orientated spells whereas the berserker was raw DPS, add some emphasis to the whole 'pack' thing. But this is tricky and probably not worth the hassle.

On an ending note, Werewolves are more susceptible to poison damage and the Fighter's Guild skill line, when a passive is taken, and given the lack of poison damage in PvE would probably be a 'must' have due to the lack of drawback (much like vampirism was a must in PvP sort of thing). I'd personally max the Werewolf skill line for the passives alone if they were remotely useful to my character in the near future and not actually use any spells.. But that's just me.