Please readjust the insane VR content nerf

ferzalrwb17_ESO · July 2014

kaer426 wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

My 10 year old cousin, who has never played this game before, just killed the boss of a V10 dungeon after clearing it solo from the entrance. I spent no more than 5 minutes showing her how to play my Templar. She didn't die once and used no potions (probably forgot about them).

This is supposed to be VETERAN content. Instead, it is content that a child that has never played this game before can do. There is something very wrong here.

Start posting some vids man...
This is like your 3rd or 4th wild claim w/o proof

Wild? Sounds very believable to me. 10 year olds would be better than half of us

And learning to play though a Vet delve in 5 minutes? Easy. You have 5+1 skills. It's almost impossible to die if you're pressing some buttons. I have tested this: facetanking any normal Vet content spamming one button is a viable way to beat this game.

Sihnfahl · July 2014

Innocente wrote: »

Which I expect Zenimax to give to them, one way or another.

Eventually, yes, just like how a lot of content on other MMOs got tuned down when later content is introduced.

It made sense to have VR content hard when the top was V10 'content' PvPing. And everything Cyrodiil was tuned for level 50.

Now they tuned Cyrodiil for V5, Trials and such (V12) are the end-game content, and getting folks through to V10 easier doesn't really matter. It really doesn't affect Cyrodiil as much, since they can always tune that upwards and adjust the 'balance' for lower-level folks, and it doesn't mean they get into end-game content because they still have those two levels to work out with in Craglorn. Which is group only.

Innocente · July 2014

Craglorn is currently 'group only'. I expect that to change not that far into the future.

Elad13 · July 2014

MeowGinger wrote: »

Same mod data, etc. as for my last post. For those wondering... yes, I did just stand there and let her ravage my sweet, sweet body. For the second time, anyway. The first, I didn't even realize she was a boss since I didn't see a shiny health bar courtesy of my addon. Oops.

Again: my spell resist, armor rating, and VR level all changed (I was wearing VR1 gear at VR5 or VR6, vs. now wearing gear at my level and softcapped), and I didn't think to record the decay level of my armor in the first image so I don't have that information (this would have affected spell resist due to the heavy armor passive).

Before:

After:

[(1279 - 894) / 1279] * 100% = 30.1016419774...%

I can't check with the worm cultists in Vernim wood since they're cleared out of the area now that I finished the questline. So the only thing I have left for comparison are the boneshapers, which I'm still trying to find -- don't remember where they are. If I find anything else at VR level that isn't Fildgor Orcthane, I'll compare that too.

This is a death recap...so with that the game must be much harder since you died so much faster on the after....I guess people are over looking what this actually shows. ...so either your after means you got killed faster or that your hp is much less....so while you think it's showing how much less they hit...you are wrong. It shows that either you used a different toon or you photo edited it or you are much weaker now at a higher level.

Sihnfahl · July 2014

Innocente wrote: »

Craglorn is currently 'group only'. I expect that to change not that far into the future.

Which, again, only makes sense as they add V14 content. It's a moving target.

I have yet to see anyone explain WHY Craglorn becoming solo-play possible in the future is a bad thing considering that, whenever I went there, nobody was grouping for quests - only anomaly farming.

LFG Craglorn quest running - no queries or invites. LFG Craglorn Anomaly AOE? Multiple groups available.

Innocente · July 2014

Sihfahl,

It is not a bad thing for solo players, not at all. The point is, as ESO becomes more and more a solo game, it appeals to social MMO players less and less.

Evergnar · July 2014

All this fuss cracks me up. As if raising or lowering HP is all it takes to make something more or less interesting. In that case Zos should just forget about story lines, dialogue, and voice actors all together.

To me nothing has really changed about vet areas other than being able to run through them quicker.

Sihnfahl · July 2014

Innocente wrote: »

The point is, as ESO becomes more and more a solo game, it appeals to social MMO players less and less.

Okay, so, how is it becoming a solo game? Last I checked, you definitely cannot do Trials solo. Or any other 12+ person dungeon.

How is making it possible to solo world, non-boss, content make the game inimical to group play?

That's like saying, to borrow a WoW thing, that WoW is a single player game because you can get through Pandaria zones solo ... even though SoO exists. And all the other raids.

Innocente · July 2014

Sihnfahl,

There is really not enough content for group play in ESO to make it really fun. Running the same single dungeon over and over for no gain? Timed Trials? Had enough of Fractal type gameplay in GW2, thank you very much. Social MMO players like challenge, and a reason to work together. I am afraid ESO does not provide that very much, and is looking to provide less and less of it as time goes on.

Loco_Mofo · July 2014

Elad13 wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

Same mod data, etc. as for my last post. For those wondering... yes, I did just stand there and let her ravage my sweet, sweet body. For the second time, anyway. The first, I didn't even realize she was a boss since I didn't see a shiny health bar courtesy of my addon. Oops.

Again: my spell resist, armor rating, and VR level all changed (I was wearing VR1 gear at VR5 or VR6, vs. now wearing gear at my level and softcapped), and I didn't think to record the decay level of my armor in the first image so I don't have that information (this would have affected spell resist due to the heavy armor passive).

Before:

After:

[(1279 - 894) / 1279] * 100% = 30.1016419774...%

I can't check with the worm cultists in Vernim wood since they're cleared out of the area now that I finished the questline. So the only thing I have left for comparison are the boneshapers, which I'm still trying to find -- don't remember where they are. If I find anything else at VR level that isn't Fildgor Orcthane, I'll compare that too.

This is a death recap...so with that the game must be much harder since you died so much faster on the after....I guess people are over looking what this actually shows. ...so either your after means you got killed faster or that your hp is much less....so while you think it's showing how much less they hit...you are wrong. It shows that either you used a different toon or you photo edited it or you are much weaker now at a higher level.

Wow...

It's really strange what conspiracies some people will come up with when the obvious reality is staring them right in the face.

Stalwart385 · July 2014

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Elad13 wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

Same mod data, etc. as for my last post. For those wondering... yes, I did just stand there and let her ravage my sweet, sweet body. For the second time, anyway. The first, I didn't even realize she was a boss since I didn't see a shiny health bar courtesy of my addon. Oops.

Again: my spell resist, armor rating, and VR level all changed (I was wearing VR1 gear at VR5 or VR6, vs. now wearing gear at my level and softcapped), and I didn't think to record the decay level of my armor in the first image so I don't have that information (this would have affected spell resist due to the heavy armor passive).

Before:

After:

[(1279 - 894) / 1279] * 100% = 30.1016419774...%

I can't check with the worm cultists in Vernim wood since they're cleared out of the area now that I finished the questline. So the only thing I have left for comparison are the boneshapers, which I'm still trying to find -- don't remember where they are. If I find anything else at VR level that isn't Fildgor Orcthane, I'll compare that too.

This is a death recap...so with that the game must be much harder since you died so much faster on the after....I guess people are over looking what this actually shows. ...so either your after means you got killed faster or that your hp is much less....so while you think it's showing how much less they hit...you are wrong. It shows that either you used a different toon or you photo edited it or you are much weaker now at a higher level.

Wow...

It's really strange what conspiracies some people will come up with when the obvious reality is staring them right in the face.

I thought it was sarcasm. I hope he wasn't being serious.

hamon · July 2014

Hilgara wrote: »

Nathano wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

This is across the board.

Percent change formula:
[(2582 - 2152) / 2582 ] * 100% = 16.65375677769... % less health

Great to see someone looking at the facts rather than pulling dodgy numbers out of thin air (33-50% REALLY??).

16% less health + lets assume 16% less damage = 32% nerf

seriously? thats how you measure nerf you add hp reduction to damage reduction and get your nerf factor? lol

like its as simple as adding the numbers together.

aleister · July 2014

Wag those epeens!

MeowGinger · July 2014

Elad13 wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

Same mod data, etc. as for my last post. For those wondering... yes, I did just stand there and let her ravage my sweet, sweet body. For the second time, anyway. The first, I didn't even realize she was a boss since I didn't see a shiny health bar courtesy of my addon. Oops.

Again: my spell resist, armor rating, and VR level all changed (I was wearing VR1 gear at VR5 or VR6, vs. now wearing gear at my level and softcapped), and I didn't think to record the decay level of my armor in the first image so I don't have that information (this would have affected spell resist due to the heavy armor passive).

Before:

After:

[(1279 - 894) / 1279] * 100% = 30.1016419774...%

I can't check with the worm cultists in Vernim wood since they're cleared out of the area now that I finished the questline. So the only thing I have left for comparison are the boneshapers, which I'm still trying to find -- don't remember where they are. If I find anything else at VR level that isn't Fildgor Orcthane, I'll compare that too.

This is a death recap...so with that the game must be much harder since you died so much faster on the after....I guess people are over looking what this actually shows. ...so either your after means you got killed faster or that your hp is much less....so while you think it's showing how much less they hit...you are wrong. It shows that either you used a different toon or you photo edited it or you are much weaker now at a higher level.

I did not edit it, and the character is now stronger (VR8 instead of VR6).

I didn't die any faster. The death recap does not show the just the last five hits, but the last five hits in a certain time frame. I just stood there and waited for her to hit me. After taking out the add, I only used heals in between Gaetane's attacks to make sure I got both her "special" and her normal attacks. Too much time elapsed in between Gaetane's attacks to show the last 5 hits, and therefore it only shows the last 3.

Here's a new one I just took. You owe me a filled grand soul gem, by the way.

TRIP233 · July 2014

dcincali wrote: »

Denaia wrote: »

I think that the VR content was nerfed way too hard and should be readjusted. Please stop this 33 to 50% nerf and bring it back to a more normal 5 or 10% nerf. This is absolutely insane and totally ruining the game.

What is worst is that no one from zenimax has responded ever since we found out how hard the nerf was. I was always hopeful the game would get well at some point, but this is making me lose faith very very quickly. I am just sick and tired of the fact that we get 1.no information 2.lies (there would just be a readjustment that would still keep the game challenging) 3.no responses to complaints 4.it takes WAY too long to fix. And yes about point 4 I understand it's hard, but there are way too many problems that get fixed way too slowly and most likely the vr content problems we have now will never be fixed either.

Please please do something about it, I am just sick and tired of the fact that the wrong decisions are made constantly.

Pretty sure they had data to support the decision to nerf the content. After all, if you have been here since closed beta's you would see that a majority of the players stopped playing in vet areas.

Very true, vet zones have been deserted. Now, people are returning and I can't wait to see more people in the vet zones.

Elad13 · July 2014

Lol ....I guess I always get killed faster with my templar...so I always see the 5 last hits....I was after all just being sarcastic...1 soul gem coming up

MeowGinger · July 2014

Elad13 wrote: »

Lol ....I guess I always get killed faster with my templar...so I always see the 5 last hits....I was after all just being sarcastic...1 soul gem coming up

It's okay, I was joking about the soul gem. The internet needs a sarcasm font... I can't tell if people are being sarcastic or serious online. I didn't know that about the death recap, either, until I tried this out today. The first time, I died in 7.7 seconds (and took more than 3000 damage in that time).

BrassRazoo · July 2014

If it allows more people to enjoy the then this can only be a good thing.
As for those who desire a challenge there is always Veteran Dungeons and Craglorn and I'm sure more of these type of things to come in the future.
General questing and levelling should never be so hard as to turn off casual players.
Dungeons and Raids and PvP should be where the challenge is.

Uisi · July 2014

This game is too hard ... rage quit!
...
This game is too easy ... rage quit!
...
That means almost nobody play this game. Then who are those people that i bump every evening in the game ... developers?
...
Just amusing myself

, this forum is so educational, i loveit.

Zabus · July 2014

I welcome the "nerf", I don't mind going through vet content easier as a nightblade. I also can't complain about the process being sped up when I absolutely hate the leveling grind..

Apparently this will be further changed to make it "easier and faster" in update 3, so keep on whining xD

RatsnevE · July 2014

While you lose faith I gain faith.

Danisheraser · July 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

holy crap no one is happy. They did what people asked now its to easy? Want to know why its to easy? Cause you got really good at the game while it was hard, so of course now it is going to seem super easy.

No! You obviously do not understand that a large portion of the players hate what zenimax did to the difficulty. So tired og dating this again and again, but the update to VR content, maling it easier, is so wrong. Within the next month people will complain about lack of content, although eso brings so much. It will be sad to watch

Ecco · July 2014

The game world isn't divided into just full groups and solo players, there are a boatload of people in between, like my wife and I playing duo. While the new changes may make it possible for some to solo VR content now, it is just insanely and ridiculously boring-easy to duo VR content. I was so disappointed tonight with how the challenge had completely disappeared.

I never thought I'd be in the camp complaining a game is too easy, but here I am. The pendulum has swung too far, you need to ratchet it back some.

Hilgara · July 2014

hamon wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

Nathano wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

This is across the board.

Percent change formula:
[(2582 - 2152) / 2582 ] * 100% = 16.65375677769... % less health

Great to see someone looking at the facts rather than pulling dodgy numbers out of thin air (33-50% REALLY??).

16% less health + lets assume 16% less damage = 32% nerf

seriously? thats how you measure nerf you add hp reduction to damage reduction and get your nerf factor? lol

like its as simple as adding the numbers together.

Yes because you are not adding the same percentage component. if it was 16% less damage then another 16% less damage you would be correct but its two different components. The damage you put out plus the damage you take back. Lets say under normal condition you can kill 3 standard mobs before dying. reducing their health by 16% means you will kill them faster so they get less chances to hit you but also those hits are doing 16% less damage. Time to kill is reduced so the hits you take are recused. + the hits themselves are doing less damage. it accumulative because they are different components.

Ojustaboo · July 2014

I played all last night (EU)

Before the patch, I logged out right where a troll spawned that I found hard to kill (as I have often said, while I am against these changes, I am far from the best player)

I killed it 3 times before the patch as an experiment to make sure it wasn't a fluke

One of those 3 times I died, the other two it was a really challenging fight.

Logging in after the patch, I killed it in next to no time, health bar hardly moved.

I tried again, this time no blocking, ignoring red areas, just standing there not moving. Sure this way my health went down about 80% but I still killed him.

Personally I don't call that veteran.

I soloed numerous dungeons, the only one I struggled with was one with Gargoyles in, I still personally found these challenging but again I'm not the best player. That was a dungeon with a Plus sign next to it meaning it needs a group, you know what I'm going to say don't you. Yes a couple of places where there was a group of 5 mobs, I died (especially when I kited them into more mobs) and a couple of times those dam Gargoyles also got me. But I completed it on my own (no one else was in there), easily soloed the bosses etc. And again I want to stress I am not what most players would call very good or very skilled.

I also tried soloing a couple of skull and bone areas. First one a single mob, I got him down to about 75%, stunned him so I could regen magica, repeated. Not long before he was dead.

That should simply not happen in vet content.

Second one did a lot more damage to me and I had to be on full alert, it killed me twice, but it was doable, simply shouldn't be able to solo these at all.

Before the patch, I had to be very wary of what I was doing, I couldn't run round the corner, run into some mobs and then react, I had to see what mobs were there and decide what to do first.

After the patch I can simply go where I like, if I run into some mobs, I can worry at that point.

My overall opinion is twofold.

I understand there are problems with balancing in the vet areas, some classes being able to easilyish do it before the nerf, some almost impossible for the average player. I had to totally respec to do it before the nerf.

But just lowering the overall difficulty has I think ruined the experience, It is no longer vet content, it is more of the same 1 - 49, in fact many parts I found easier than some of the 1 - 49 stuff.

I also didn't notice any more people than usual in there.

Part of me doesn't care from the point of view of I'm there to get myself to about vet 5 (and get the skyshards) so that I can start enjoying the other vet content. But another part of me has already done the easy 1 - 49 and reaching vet was expecting a real challenge and now there is none (well the odd tiny bit).

While I don't like having to do the other two factions on my main (wanting to do them on my alts) at least prenerf I had to think.

My biggest concern though is where next. We already had the mages and fighters guild quests nerfed. Now we have vet levels nerfed.

What happens when everyone happy with this nerf gets through it?

Logic says they are going to complain that PvP is too hard and want that made easier.

Logic says they will want Craglorn made easier.

I've seen this happen too many times before. And NOTHING would please me more than be proven wrong.

I also didn't notice any more people in this area and while some may say thats because they are all on the vet 1 area, if that is the case, it kind of looks like you didn't really give the old vet content much of a try/chance.

I think it's Zenimax that's firmly to blame for this as there was a design flaw in the 1 - 49 content where it didn't get harder, infact for many, it got easier as people who explored everywhere tended to be a bit over levelled, Then players hit vet and it's kind of like doing a maths course for your first year and only doing addition, then on your first day of year two, the tutor starts talking about advanced equations.

So yes I'm sad about this change, I'm even more sadder as to where it will lead in months to come.

Ojustaboo · July 2014

Sihnfahl wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

Craglorn is currently 'group only'. I expect that to change not that far into the future.

Which, again, only makes sense as they add V14 content. It's a moving target.

I have yet to see anyone explain WHY Craglorn becoming solo-play possible in the future is a bad thing considering that, whenever I went there, nobody was grouping for quests - only anomaly farming.

Many many many players myself included rarely if ever will join a pug group or advertise in chat that I'm looking for one.

Many like me will simply group up with fellow guildies, so what you see, may not be giving you the complete picture.

Also not everyone is in a race to get to the end asap, most of the vet players in my guild (not all) are spending a majority of time having great fun in PvP, maybe going into Craglorn etc one or two evenings a week. That doesn't mean they are not enjoying Craglorn, what it means is they are here for the long haul and I suspect most of them will be subbing for quite a few years (unless of course they nerf other areas)

Vahrokh · July 2014

Kayira wrote: »

The main problem is that Zenimax reacted to the forum whining. All the people content with it didn't post anything so Zeni thought: Oh look Vet content is too hard.

Now the people that were happy with vet difficulty come to the forum to tell them it is not ok, so it is not really the same people complaining here but actually the people that were content in playing before. Zenimax should get their information not only from the forum but maybe from surveys before such a massive change to difficulty.

I also agree that Vet content is a joke now. I stopped using buff food and only sometimes block. You don't have to put it back to the old but just make it slightly harder again.

Yesterday I have finished the former broken VR 6-7 quests and finished the VR 8 zone, close to 8 (eight) hours of playing. Didn't use any food or pots. I did not die ONCE. Compared to the "physiological" 6-7 deaths a session (about 1 per hour) I had till before patch and compared with the fact I had to use both foods and pots, this is the physical representation of how big this nerf has been.

The perspective for my business: provisioning foods, alchemy and grand soul shards packs selling, has never been so grim.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · July 2014

For P sake.

Make you minds.

Few days ago, almost everyone was crying that VR content is deserted and unplayanble.

Now everyone complains it too easy.

The mobs got a ~30% nerf on Armour & Spell penetration only, from 95% they had to around 60% and inline with Coldharbour mobs and Molag Bal. HP are the same, so are the amount of magicka and stamina, along with the big heals.

Dragonknigns and Sorcerers never had issues with VR content. Only those who refused to use class abilities. Neither Templars after the 1.2.3 patch.

So, you asked for it, live with it.

TheAmu · July 2014

This isn't a case of people not being able to make up their minds.

The people who complained that VR content was too hard are now happy and have stopped complaining.

The people [sorry, Gods among men] who were perfectly happy with VR content the way it was are now furious at the change. Now they are the ones complaining.

Loco_Mofo · July 2014

MeowGinger wrote: »

Elad13 wrote: »

Lol ....I guess I always get killed faster with my templar...so I always see the 5 last hits....I was after all just being sarcastic...1 soul gem coming up

It's okay, I was joking about the soul gem. The internet needs a sarcasm font... I can't tell if people are being sarcastic or serious online. I didn't know that about the death recap, either, until I tried this out today. The first time, I died in 7.7 seconds (and took more than 3000 damage in that time).

Why is sarcastica not a default OS font already?!