Zebug wrote: »

as I said in the other thread, thanks for the screenies and the work getting this info together, I just fear you might be spreading false info on the damage part being that your VR level and gear has changed from one time to the other....the HP differences are perfect and thanks again for that.

Arato wrote: »

That's a rather substantial change actually, particularly the outgoing damage. Prior you had to be really careful about avoiding or blocking attacks because they hit really hard, now it seems like you can ignore/absorb most attacks and only avoid things like uppercut, like in 1-50 content.

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Without the windup you don't really get a chance to block or dodge the attack. Then you have to neuter its damage or people will complain its too hard because they get hit every single time.

in GW2 it's pretty much they left mob damage high, mobs have very subtle tells (not easily readable like here) that are often obscured by particle effects from your attacks, and you just get one shot, and arenanet just considers players getting downed in 1 hit as the norm, and excuses it as "downed is not dead"

I find having easy to read tells makes for a better combat experience than "well watch his eyebrows, if he raises one eyebrow up and faces your direction he's about to do a 1 shot attack that you have to dodge"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZChSzoYy8D8

Arato wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Without the windup you don't really get a chance to block or dodge the attack. Then you have to neuter its damage or people will complain its too hard because they get hit every single time.

in GW2 it's pretty much they left mob damage high, mobs have very subtle tells (not easily readable like here) that are often obscured by particle effects from your attacks, and you just get one shot, and arenanet just considers players getting downed in 1 hit as the norm, and excuses it as "downed is not dead"

I find having easy to read tells makes for a better combat experience than "well watch his eyebrows, if he raises one eyebrow up and faces your direction he's about to do a 1 shot attack that you have to dodge"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZChSzoYy8D8

This is what your average GW2 world boss fight looks like. Spot the one shot incoming tell on the boss.

Stalwart385 wrote: »

At one time I noticed mobs were breaking CC a lot after a patch. It seems they stopped doing that also. I liked that, it killed the monotony.

And yes 30% damage reduction and 16% health reduction is significant. A total of 46% easier. That is all we have found that was nerfed.

MeowGinger wrote: »

I hope this was helpful. To those who have asked: I'll try testing damage with and without armor tomorrow.

I wonder why a (hopefully) informative and unbiased post is getting LOLs? Maybe people just don't like numbers...

After playing for a few hours, I also think the changes were a little much. I do not feel that any VR players should be able to solo any veteran zone dolmen (I'm sure this has happened pre-patch, although I have never seen it for myself before). I also have another observation (without screenshot proof this time): enemies are still inconsistent. The "trash" trolls (in Erokii Ruins?) still have more HP than the dungeon boss, Grimtooth. I don't have a death recap, but I feel as though the damage was comparable. It would be nice if the inconsistency could have been fixed.

Lyall84 wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

So this is what people are complaining about? 16% less health and 30% less damage? By the way people are complaining you'd think it'd be 60% less health and 80% less damage :P
This is good info to know.

That's a rather substantial change actually, particularly the outgoing damage. Prior you had to be really careful about avoiding or blocking attacks because they hit really hard, now it seems like you can ignore/absorb most attacks and only avoid things like uppercut, like in 1-50 content.

The real problem before was that the VR NPCs hit harder with light attacks than players could with similar weapons and heavy attacks. The damage nerf was needed. If the change is too much and they decide to make it harder. Instead of just add a bigger stat increase to the mobs like they did before. I would like to see them remove the NPC skill wind up that you see, so the NPCs cast more like a player. Whirlwind should be instant cast, not 2 seconds fiddling with their junk before hitting you for 700 (1k damage pre patch). Also increase the rate and variety of skills that they use. No more just spamming throwing knife, but hit me with sparks or twin slashes or whatever. That would make things like blocking and interrupt more important while not making the game numerically crushing like it was before.

I think it would do wonders of making NPC combat more like player combat. (Player combat can be both the easiest and hardest depending on the player)

EDIT: fixed typo.

fosley_ESO wrote: »

I don't think it's so much about adding more npc skills, as giving each npc access to more of the current skills. Right now, any given npc has two or three skills they use. A light, unavoidable attack; a heavy, interruptable/blockable attack; and a special, interruptable/dodgeable attack. And it's the same set of attacks for any given npc type. A scamp will have a little firebolt, a heavy firewall, and a special puddle of fire, no matter where you find it.

To make it more interesting, they could give scamps a firebolt plus a melee attack, a heavy firewall plus a fire nova aoe, and a fire puddle plus a cone attack. Or something. Then any given attack isn't particularly over-powered, but you still have to be more careful than right now because there are more possible attacks to consider when defending against them.

SDZald wrote: »

kewl wrote: »

fosley_ESO wrote: »

I don't think it's so much about adding more npc skills, as giving each npc access to more of the current skills. Right now, any given npc has two or three skills they use. A light, unavoidable attack; a heavy, interruptable/blockable attack; and a special, interruptable/dodgeable attack. And it's the same set of attacks for any given npc type. A scamp will have a little firebolt, a heavy firewall, and a special puddle of fire, no matter where you find it.

To make it more interesting, they could give scamps a firebolt plus a melee attack, a heavy firewall plus a fire nova aoe, and a fire puddle plus a cone attack. Or something. Then any given attack isn't particularly over-powered, but you still have to be more careful than right now because there are more possible attacks to consider when defending against them.

Make fights more dynamic, what a brilliant idea!

Ahhh but now we are talking AI, well ok maybe not true AI but what you are asking for is what every gamer has asked for since the first computer games. NPC's that act more 'real' is very tough to do, requires a heck of a lot of code. Add to that the verity of NPC types in a game like this, that is asking for a lot from a company that can't even fix quest bugs, FPS problems, and memory leaks.

fosley_ESO wrote: »

To make it more interesting, they could give scamps a firebolt plus a melee attack, a heavy firewall plus a fire nova aoe, and a fire puddle plus a cone attack. Or something. Then any given attack isn't particularly over-powered, but you still have to be more careful than right now because there are more possible attacks to consider when defending against them.