Cyrodiil/PvP FPS Issues: YOU WILL LOSE SUBS IF THIS IS NOT FIXED
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Raizin✭✭✭✭lykan_spike wrote: »ZOS_AlvinM wrote: »We understand that the FPS issue is very frustrating, and would like to assure everyone that our team is working on the issue. We will absolutely push a patch as soon as we can, and will be sure to post on the forums when we do. We understand your feelings and do appreciate your patience.
That said, we do require that all posts on the ESO forums stay in line with our Code of Conduct, which does not allow demands. As such, we have removed the word "Ultimatum" from the title of this thread. In addition, we'd like to remind everyone to please keep their posts civil and on topic.
@ZOS_AlvinM You need to adjust your Forum Rules, You are in Breach of EU Law.
Charter of Fundamental Rights in the European Union, which reads:
Article 11
Freedom of expression and information
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.
2. The freedom and pluralism of the media shall be respected.
As the company trades in the EU, you need to abide by EU Law.
Also you may want to look up on the World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) Rules, as this is an organ of the United Nations, which quite explicitly categorises software as goods, whether it is delivered via a physical medium or intangibly.
If your goods are faulty, the consumer can process for a refund of their monthly subscription as this is also a service which you are currently in breach of. Every player that is unable to play the game as intended due to your poor service is by Law due a refund of their subscription for the last month.
Nice
HellSeesYou = v16/AD/Rank 37-Former emp/EU TB-AZura(Old Auriels Bow badass) ___ Vampire Templar/Resto/Destro staff user from Banana squad
HellSeesAll - v16/EP/Rank 19 Magicka NB/Necrotic Lag member
HellSeesUs - v16/AD/Rank 18 Stamina Templar1 -
Grim13✭✭✭✭✭
✭lykan_spike wrote: »Also @ZOS_AlvinM one of your rules states
Selling, Trading, and Sharing Game Accounts: The act of selling, trading, or sharing your ESO account is a violation of our Terms of Service. As such, we also do not allow discussion about selling, trading, or sharing game accounts on our forums.
I'm afraid this is incorrect. Please check on the recent EU Law that was passed on this issue 2 years ago. I will post an extract for you.
Buying and reselling any form of digital software is perfectly legal, the Court of Justice of the European Union has ruled. Software authors – or in the gaming world, publishers – can not stop customers from reselling their games, even if the publisher attaches an End User License Agreement prohibiting resale.
"The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale," the court has found.
This ruling covers customers in European Union member states, and games bought through services such as Steam or Origin. The initial purchaser is now entitled to sell the license of a game and allow someone else to download it directly from the publisher's website. The tricky part now is selling the actual license, since there is no system in place for any such transaction. The initial buyer would need a code for a game's license and upon selling it, he would no longer be able to access that game on his account.
The ruling applies to the broader scope of software, covering items such as Windows and Adobe downloads. There is no word yet on whether game distributors will change policies or services to enable a license-selling process, but that would make Steam sales much more interesting in the EU.
If only North America were so progressive.
Sadly, we've allowed our consumer laws to devolve into complete blanket protection for Big Business.1 -
themizario✭✭✭lykan_spike wrote: »Also @ZOS_AlvinM one of your rules states
Selling, Trading, and Sharing Game Accounts: The act of selling, trading, or sharing your ESO account is a violation of our Terms of Service. As such, we also do not allow discussion about selling, trading, or sharing game accounts on our forums.
I'm afraid this is incorrect. Please check on the recent EU Law that was passed on this issue 2 years ago. I will post an extract for you.
Buying and reselling any form of digital software is perfectly legal, the Court of Justice of the European Union has ruled. Software authors – or in the gaming world, publishers – can not stop customers from reselling their games, even if the publisher attaches an End User License Agreement prohibiting resale.
"The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale," the court has found.
This ruling covers customers in European Union member states, and games bought through services such as Steam or Origin. The initial purchaser is now entitled to sell the license of a game and allow someone else to download it directly from the publisher's website. The tricky part now is selling the actual license, since there is no system in place for any such transaction. The initial buyer would need a code for a game's license and upon selling it, he would no longer be able to access that game on his account.
The ruling applies to the broader scope of software, covering items such as Windows and Adobe downloads. There is no word yet on whether game distributors will change policies or services to enable a license-selling process, but that would make Steam sales much more interesting in the EU.
If only North America were so progressive.
Sadly, we've allowed our consumer laws to devolve into complete blanket protection for Big Business.
Best forum discussion I have seen in a while - insightful and I'm getting learned!0 -
crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭interesting read, I am glad EU law is so customer friendly.
I do want to ask though, since the server and company is in NA, will that make them exempt from the EU laws?0 -
Arkadius✭✭✭✭✭
✭interesting read, I am glad EU law is so customer friendly.
I do want to ask though, since the server and company is in NA, will that make them exempt from the EU laws?
EU customers are protected by EU laws. The company has to deal with that, no matter where it is located. But that is not only true for the EU. A company has to deal with the laws of every country it wants to trade with.Edited by Arkadius on July 7, 2014 10:53PM1 -
Cyanhide✭✭✭interesting read, I am glad EU law is so customer friendly.
I do want to ask though, since the server and company is in NA, will that make them exempt from the EU laws?
EU customers are protected by EU laws. The company has to deal with that, no matter where it is located. But that is not only true for the EU. A company has to deal with the laws of every country it wants to trade with.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but a lot has happened in two years, namely : the transatlantic trade deal.The purpose of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is to remove the regulatory differences between the US and European nations. I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago. But I left out the most important issue: the remarkable ability it would grant big business to sue the living daylights out of governments which try to defend their citizens. It would allow a secretive panel of corporate lawyers to overrule the will of parliament and destroy our legal protections. Yet the defenders of our sovereignty say nothing.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/04/us-trade-deal-full-frontal-assault-on-democracy
So yeah, your consumer rights just went out the window.2 -
My subscription lapsed this morning.I simply have lost confidence in ESO's management decision making and priorities.
The game was never properly tested.I'm not paying and hoping any more. Maybe dramatically less cash flow will actually get the decision makers attention. I sure will have a lot less frustration.0 -
maeiia✭✭Only have one question for all of you can you write code? And im not referring to the Zenmax people.Edited by maeiia on July 8, 2014 2:23PM0
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Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Only have one question for all of you can you write code? And im not referring to the Zenmax people.
Depends in what code your referring to. Basic, Visual Basic, Visual C++, sure. Whatever the *** ESO is coded in? Probably not. Hell, even English, French, and Spanish are examples of written code, so technically you can write in code too and are completely understood by any biological processor with the appropriate memory data to decode and make sense of it.0 -
maeiia✭✭Only have one question for all of you can you write code? And im not referring to the Zenmax people.
Depends in what code your referring to. Basic, Visual Basic, Visual C++, sure. Whatever the *** ESO is coded in? Probably not. Hell, even English, French, and Spanish are examples of written code, so technically you can write in code too and are completely understood by any biological processor with the appropriate memory data to decode and make sense of it.
I am referring to the point can you create a game and/or be apart of a team such as the eso staff? Then complain about the game?Edited by maeiia on July 8, 2014 2:54PM0 -
Heishi✭✭✭✭✭Pssst Hai guys, America has freedom of speech rights and laws as well. Unfortunately they aren't breaking them. See, when you signed the agreement to be a part of the site, you agreed that you understood the rules as they were. You were fully given the right to refuse.
Also they not once said "you can't say that", they just said you can't say it here, again as outlined in agreements your digitally agreed to. I can think of many applicable examples but I don't know how they translate in other countries.
Guns, you have the right (here) to own and carry guns, but there are buildings where you are not allowed to have them. There's things you're allowed to own that can't go on planes. You're allowed to smoke but there are places where you can't.
Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you can do it anywhere. That's why rights have laws and rules to enforce and protect other people's rights.
Oh, a good example that I believe applies. A non-disclosure agreement (NDA). Where you do something like beta testing, government work, medical history, ect. and you are bound into an agreement that you won't speak on certain things punishable by law. Just because say you work at a hospital and find out Jenny B is a patient and has syphilis doesn't mean you can talk to the neighbor who broke a leg and start telling them she's such a dirty wh___ because she has it.
As far as ultimatums go, start calling businesses and govn't offices with threats and ultimatums and see where that gets you make sure you tell them you have the right to do so XD.
People get so silly when it comes to "rights" and what they feel they're "entitled" to. Yet the same people who spout off about rights don't even read contracts and agreements where they wave them in exchange for services rendered that come with no guarantee.
I have more respect for the people who do the "this game sucks I'm unsubbing" than I do for people who do a 5 sec google search to figure out if they have been legally wronged and throw out half clauses with no idea what they are saying.
It'd be like if I did a quick google search on heart surgery and told an operating doctor that he's doing it wrong because I found this article on heart disease and it says to do otherwise.
I am positive ZOS likely has a legal team, much more experience than most of us on this board who have reviewed the documents before they were pushed to the public. I'm sure in order for ZOS to have rendered service in EU they had to present documents to Legal boards and such showing that their rules and agreements were inline with EU regulations.And so did many brave men, women, and beast fall to the end of Beta, never to be heard from again. All that is left, is whispers of the adventures they had.0 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Only have one question for all of you can you write code? And im not referring to the Zenmax people.
Depends in what code your referring to. Basic, Visual Basic, Visual C++, sure. Whatever the *** ESO is coded in? Probably not. Hell, even English, French, and Spanish are examples of written code, so technically you can write in code too and are completely understood by any biological processor with the appropriate memory data to decode and make sense of it.
I am referring to the point can you create a game and/or be apart of a team such as the eso staff? Then complain about the game?
They make games for a living, it's their job. I fix, retrofit, and inspect cranes for a living. My customers pay me not just to do a job, but to do that job correctly. I screw up, people can be seriously injured, millions of dollars of damage can be caused, or people could die (YouTube search some crane failures sometime). Suffice it to say my customers might be a bit upset and have something negative to say if I screw up. The stakes are higher, but the principle remains the same: you screw up, your paying customers have every right to complain.
I can't code a game, sure. But I don't have the education, experience, or the responsibility to do so, ZOS does. If they do a crappy job, I am well within my rights as a paying customer to complain that they did a crappy job, and any person that takes even a semblance of pride in their craft will do everything in their power to make it right. I see no such effort, at least no such effort is being expressed to me as a consumer, and thus I presume no such pride exists. This compounds my complaint with either lack of effort to resolve it, or at the very least lack of effectively communicating they are putting in an appropriate amount of effort to resolve it. Either way, every paying customer here complaining is not only justified in doing so, they should be expected to do so.3 -
Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭Only have one question for all of you can you write code? And im not referring to the Zenmax people.
Depends in what code your referring to. Basic, Visual Basic, Visual C++, sure. Whatever the *** ESO is coded in? Probably not. Hell, even English, French, and Spanish are examples of written code, so technically you can write in code too and are completely understood by any biological processor with the appropriate memory data to decode and make sense of it.
I am referring to the point can you create a game and/or be apart of a team such as the eso staff? Then complain about the game?
They make games for a living, it's their job. I fix, retrofit, and inspect cranes for a living. My customers pay me not just to do a job, but to do that job correctly. I screw up, people can be seriously injured, millions of dollars of damage can be caused, or people could die (YouTube search some crane failures sometime). Suffice it to say my customers might be a bit upset and have something negative to say if I screw up. The stakes are higher, but the principle remains the same: you screw up, your paying customers have every right to complain.
I can't code a game, sure. But I don't have the education, experience, or the responsibility to do so, ZOS does.
Because of this, I question that you have the proper Knowledge to know what a crappy job is. Now ZOS knows what a crappy job is, and would get rid of staff that met this criteria. However this is only on the Boss, employee relationship, so since we are a customer and service relation ship. You don't get the option to judge the employees, but just judge product, for being adequate or not. If the latter then you only option is to stop investing in the product.
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Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Fairydragon3 wrote: »Only have one question for all of you can you write code? And im not referring to the Zenmax people.
Depends in what code your referring to. Basic, Visual Basic, Visual C++, sure. Whatever the *** ESO is coded in? Probably not. Hell, even English, French, and Spanish are examples of written code, so technically you can write in code too and are completely understood by any biological processor with the appropriate memory data to decode and make sense of it.
I am referring to the point can you create a game and/or be apart of a team such as the eso staff? Then complain about the game?
They make games for a living, it's their job. I fix, retrofit, and inspect cranes for a living. My customers pay me not just to do a job, but to do that job correctly. I screw up, people can be seriously injured, millions of dollars of damage can be caused, or people could die (YouTube search some crane failures sometime). Suffice it to say my customers might be a bit upset and have something negative to say if I screw up. The stakes are higher, but the principle remains the same: you screw up, your paying customers have every right to complain.
I can't code a game, sure. But I don't have the education, experience, or the responsibility to do so, ZOS does.
Because of this, I question that you have the proper Knowledge to know what a crappy job is. Now ZOS knows what a crappy job is, and would get rid of staff that met this criteria. However this is only on the Boss, employee relationship, so since we are a customer and service relation ship. You don't get the option to judge the employees, but just judge product, for being adequate or not. If the latter then you only option is to stop investing in the product.
It doesn't take much knowledge to identify something that isn't working. If your car used to go 60mph but after you got it back from the shop it frequently tops out a 5mph, and you have to turn it off and turn it back on to get it to work for the next 20 minutes before needing to do so again, a mildly intelligent dog would be able to indicate someone *** something up. It's really really easy to identify a *** up, especially really really obvious *** ups. You break your leg, you know there's a *** up involved. Fixing those *** ups is certainly much more of a difficult proposition. My complaint in regard to this factual *** up, is that it happened to begin with, and I hold each and every developer independently responsible for his or her work. It's not Bill from Accountings fault that a bug in the code got past Bob in QA...that's Bob's fault and he should be held independently accountable for his *** up (if there actually is a Bob in QA who this slipped past, I apologize for breaching forum code for naming and shaming).
ZOS has done a remarkably crappy job, we judge that by looking at comparative goods. How many other MMO's out right now have the number and severity of bugs ESO currently has? Hell, Windstar is a new contender and it's vastly more stable than ESO. I personally dislike the game, but my subjective opinion has no bearing on whether or not they did their jobs well. Carbine has clearly done a good job. I'll never buy their game because I personally don't like it (or NCSoft), but that's irrelevant to them doing their job. ZOS? No. I can't point to a single patch that hasn't broken something, nor can I point to a single window in time (PTS included) at which everything in ESO worked properly. At this very moment there are a variety of elements that just don't work properly, the FPS issue is simply the most severe.
When something designed to be played is made unplayable, the person(s) doing the designing very fittingly did a crappy job. Your agreement with that statement is irrelevant. You are just as welcome to disagree that the Earth is a spherical body orbiting a star. Objective reality doesn't care if you agree.2
