IKilled007 wrote: »

In this thread I asked specifically:

Does Zenimax share all the patches it makes in the patch notes?

Or does Zenimax make some changes they do not share with us? And I'm not talking about minor changes like cleaning up some code here and there -- I'm talking about substantive changes to our abilities or mob/npc abilities or to difficulty or to armor and weapons or armor sets, etc.

If they do make stealth changes, why do they do this? Why wouldn't they want us to know about substantive changes?

ZOS_HugoP admin replied unambiguously:

Greetings folks!

Please be sure that the patch-notes contain every change we made to the game, even the smallest one.

If you think that something changed without being listed in the patch-note, feel free to share that with us, so we can review it

Thank you!

Where are the patch noted about the wolf respawn rates in Crow's Wood being reduced, effectively destroying it as a farm/grind? Credibility is important to me. Did I miss this patch note? If so, I will apologize profusely. If I did not, WTF devs?

amadoth wrote: »

A lot of you (you know who you are) bash this game every chance you get. This was done wrong, this didn't get communicated to me, they nerfed my farming ability on such and such mob...the question I ask is this:

Why are you folks even playing this game?

Slash8915 wrote: »

amadoth wrote: »

A lot of you (you know who you are) bash this game every chance you get. This was done wrong, this didn't get communicated to me, they nerfed my farming ability on such and such mob...the question I ask is this:

Why are you folks even playing this game?

Because we still have hope for it. Otherwise, we wouldn't even take the time to post here. I never farmed the wolves, but the shadiness of these stealth nerfs isn't right.

Also, @ZOS_GinaBruno, I like you. You're by far my favorite admin on these forums. But you can't tell me that all of these stealth "fixes" being left out of patch notes is purely an accident. There are several of them EVERY patch. It's either ZoS being very underhanded, or just extremely incompetent.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

It's interesting that you assume they are lying -- to you personally -- rather than simply assuming that a new developer's patch note/ internal documentation process is not bulletproof.

zgrssd wrote: »

IKilled007 wrote: »

Where are the patch noted about the wolf respawn rates in Crow's Wood being reduced, effectively destroying it as a farm/grind? Credibility is important to me. Did I miss this patch note? If so, I will apologize profusely. If I did not, WTF devs?

Wait. Something was not noted explcitly in the patchnotes and your first thought is "Liar, liar pants on fire?".

May I suggest you read the quote in the Op from ZoS, it does say they include every single change, no matter how small.

No... It doesn't. Read it again.

amadoth wrote: »

\

I want the game to get better as well, I think the easy answer is the majority do. The thing that's missing from a lot of these posts is what or how can we help fix the game. Constructive criticism or ideas/suggestions go much further than asking if ZOS lied to me or us. If you bash everything ZOS says or does you're not helping and actually you're ruining the game for the majority of us.

Slash8915 wrote: »

amadoth wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

amadoth wrote: »

A lot of you (you know who you are) bash this game every chance you get. This was done wrong, this didn't get communicated to me, they nerfed my farming ability on such and such mob...the question I ask is this:

Why are you folks even playing this game?

Would you prefer that no one ever question ninja nerfs and not post about bugs and issues that they're having? do you think that will make for a positive gaming experience? If so, I got a bridge for sale. Some people actually want to see this game improve, despite their negative posts. Here's a better question, if you have such an issue with these posts, why are you even reading them? why bother responding?

I want the game to get better as well, I think the easy answer is the majority do. The thing that's missing from a lot of these posts is what or how can we help fix the game. Constructive criticism or ideas/suggestions go much further than asking if ZOS lied to me or us. If you bash everything ZOS says or does you're not helping and actually you're ruining the game for the majority of us.

See, we tried that in the beginning. All it resulted in was ZoS being silent and never communicating. Once the "mean" threads started popping up, ZoS started replying. So naturally, people starting posting more of those.

Slash8915 wrote: »

amadoth wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

amadoth wrote: »

A lot of you (you know who you are) bash this game every chance you get. This was done wrong, this didn't get communicated to me, they nerfed my farming ability on such and such mob...the question I ask is this:

Why are you folks even playing this game?

Would you prefer that no one ever question ninja nerfs and not post about bugs and issues that they're having? do you think that will make for a positive gaming experience? If so, I got a bridge for sale. Some people actually want to see this game improve, despite their negative posts. Here's a better question, if you have such an issue with these posts, why are you even reading them? why bother responding?

I want the game to get better as well, I think the easy answer is the majority do. The thing that's missing from a lot of these posts is what or how can we help fix the game. Constructive criticism or ideas/suggestions go much further than asking if ZOS lied to me or us. If you bash everything ZOS says or does you're not helping and actually you're ruining the game for the majority of us.

See, we tried that in the beginning. All it resulted in was ZoS being silent and never communicating. Once the "mean" threads started popping up, ZoS started replying. So naturally, people starting posting more of those.

I honestly feel bad for the admins on these forums because they have to put up with all of us. I really do. But there's no other way to get our point across to ZoS and actually have them listen.

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

amadoth wrote: »

\

I want the game to get better as well, I think the easy answer is the majority do. The thing that's missing from a lot of these posts is what or how can we help fix the game. Constructive criticism or ideas/suggestions go much further than asking if ZOS lied to me or us. If you bash everything ZOS says or does you're not helping and actually you're ruining the game for the majority of us.

Do tell how this thread is going to negatively impact the majority of players? Did you even read the OP or know what it's about?

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It's not a "nerf," and it was in the patch notes. They specifically said they were making general changes to the enemies in public dungeons. Your inability to read does not equate to a lack of communication on ZO's part.

And yes, I would love if they made grinding a less viable option in this game. You have 100+ well-written quests, bosses, dolmens, dungeons, delves, PvP, etc. If you can't find something to do besides run in a circle smashing the same button over and over again, you just aren't trying.

Your uncanny ability to bend over backwards for ZoS is down right amusing. As is your uncanny ability to throw out insults when someone doesn't tow the company line. Keep up the great work, you're on a roll.

Reducing spawn rates and by extension, drop rates, isn't a nerf? just wow.
Not a single patch notes says anything about altering these mobs in crow's wood, though there are patch notes specifically pertaining to crow's wood that have nothing to do with this. Amazing how they forgot to put that in the section with the crow's wood change. Funny, there's no patch notes about general changes to mobs in public dungeons either yet you claim there is. Go figure.

Let's see...

1.2.4 says nothing about it.
1.2.3 says nothing about but specifically mentions crow's wood for something else, imagine that.
1.1.5 says nothing about it.
1.1.4 says nothing about it.
1.1.3 says nothing about it.
1.1.2 says nothing about it.
Do you see a trend here yet?

But this is all coming from someone who has claimed that they NEVER make stealth changes unless it pertains to security or connections despite almost if not every single patch having ninja changes that have been well documented on the forums and on reddit. Thumbs up.

Public Dungeons
Increased the difficulty of the following public dungeons:
Village of the Lost
Razak’s Wheel
The Lion’s Den
The Vile Manse
Crimson Cove
Rulanyil’s Fall
Hall of the Dead
Sanguine’s Demesne
Lost City of the Na-Totambu
Obisidian Scarp

crislevin wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to provide some clarification, we never intend to leave information out of the patch notes. That said, mistakes do happen, and there have been times when we've accidentally missed something. We've always updated the patch notes (including a reply so it's not snuck in) with anything we edit after they're published. We are continually working on our patch note process to ensure important fixes aren't missed, but please understand that we never intentionally leave things out.

In regards to the wolves in Crow's Wood, we did recently increase the difficulty slightly in all public dungeons (this is something that should have been in the patch notes when it was implemented). One of the things we did to support this effort was replace these individual wolves with the wolves that call their pack for backup, so even though there are technically less wolf mobs, there are more wolves when you include their pack members. It's just a different type of monster to provide more of a challenge.

Hope this helps explain a few things, and thanks for understanding. If you ever have a question about something that appears to be missing from the patch notes, please bring it to our attention and we'll be happy to look into it.

It would be the right thing to do to put these in the patch note and people wouldn't have to find out themselves.

I appreciate your explanation, but lets just work together to make sure future patch note are accurate and comprehensive, so we don't have to discuss this type of topics ever again.

I would suggest:

1. list ALL changes, however small it may be.
2. list accurate changes, rather than "we changed this" "... is increased", offer details, such as "this skill now deals 10% more damage", "increased drop rate of xxx to 0.0128", etc.
3. offer skill refund when the skill is significantly changed.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It's not a "nerf," and it was in the patch notes. They specifically said they were making general changes to the enemies in public dungeons. Your inability to read does not equate to a lack of communication on ZO's part.

And yes, I would love if they made grinding a less viable option in this game. You have 100+ well-written quests, bosses, dolmens, dungeons, delves, PvP, etc. If you can't find something to do besides run in a circle smashing the same button over and over again, you just aren't trying.

Your uncanny ability to bend over backwards for ZoS is down right amusing. As is your uncanny ability to throw out insults when someone doesn't tow the company line. Keep up the great work, you're on a roll.

Reducing spawn rates and by extension, drop rates, isn't a nerf? just wow.
Not a single patch notes says anything about altering these mobs in crow's wood, though there are patch notes specifically pertaining to crow's wood that have nothing to do with this. Amazing how they forgot to put that in the section with the crow's wood change. Funny, there's no patch notes about general changes to mobs in public dungeons either yet you claim there is. Go figure.

Let's see...

1.2.4 says nothing about it.
1.2.3 says nothing about but specifically mentions crow's wood for something else, imagine that.
1.1.5 says nothing about it.
1.1.4 says nothing about it.
1.1.3 says nothing about it.
1.1.2 says nothing about it.
Do you see a trend here yet?

But this is all coming from someone who has claimed that they NEVER make stealth changes unless it pertains to security or connections despite almost if not every single patch having ninja changes that have been well documented on the forums and on reddit. Thumbs up.

Maybe you should read 1.1.2 again:

Public Dungeons
Increased the difficulty of the following public dungeons:
Village of the Lost
Razak’s Wheel
The Lion’s Den
The Vile Manse
Crimson Cove
Rulanyil’s Fall
Hall of the Dead
Sanguine’s Demesne
Lost City of the Na-Totambu
Obisidian Scarp

They didn't specify how difficulty was adjusted in each area (as stated by the green post earlier), but changing the enemy type is a way of increasing difficulty. I'm sure you'll find some reason to say that it was super-dishonest and mean and that we should be stamping our widdle feet in frustration because stuff. But it was in the patch notes.

And leaving things out of notes by mistake isn't a "stealth change". It's not a particularly good thing, but honestly, do you have nothing better to moan about?

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

We're really reaching for things to whine about, aren't we?

The harder they make this game for people to grind, the happier I will be. Might actually make people in Craglorn group up for the content.

Pointing out yet another ninja nerf change to the game is reaching? you must have short arms.

It's not a "nerf," and it was in the patch notes. They specifically said they were making general changes to the enemies in public dungeons. Your inability to read does not equate to a lack of communication on ZO's part.

And yes, I would love if they made grinding a less viable option in this game. You have 100+ well-written quests, bosses, dolmens, dungeons, delves, PvP, etc. If you can't find something to do besides run in a circle smashing the same button over and over again, you just aren't trying.

Greetings adventurer:

In this Patch x.y.x

We changed some thing.
Something is now more difficult
Others are now easier