Do you think veteran content is too hard?

michaelb14a_ESO2 · July 2014

No

Alphashado wrote: »

Zos would never make a business decision based on a metric involving a few hundred people. Let's be real.

What if the poll got over 1,000 responses?

SFBryan18 · July 2014

No

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

It really doesn't matter what the poll says, most people voting don't make video games and should not have a voice on the matter. The devs should make the game however they see fit as they know their game better than anyone.

That's sort of like saying people that buy rotten fruit from the supermarket should just shut up and eat it. They aren't farmers after all. They didn't plant and water and harvest the crops.

They just showed up with the MONEY.

No ones forcing you to buy rotten fruit anymore than their forcing you to play this game. If you reached vr content, then you got your money's worth. The choice to stay is yours.

Fetaro · July 2014

No

No.

It's not too hard. It's badly balanced.

Phinix1 · July 2014

No

SFBryan18 wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

It really doesn't matter what the poll says, most people voting don't make video games and should not have a voice on the matter. The devs should make the game however they see fit as they know their game better than anyone.

That's sort of like saying people that buy rotten fruit from the supermarket should just shut up and eat it. They aren't farmers after all. They didn't plant and water and harvest the crops.

They just showed up with the MONEY.

No ones forcing you to buy rotten fruit anymore than their forcing you to play this game. If you reached vr content, then you got your money's worth. The choice to stay is yours.

I could easily say the same about the people who cry about a learning curve and having to group for anything in an "MMO." But the WoW crowd always get their way, don't they.

Draxys · July 2014

No

I think the difficulty is ok, I would just tweak down health and damage output of NPCs slightly and give more incentive to do veteran content. Right now there are literally only the skyshards, skill points from city/dungeon quests, and Cadwell's Silver (to unlock the VR6-10 zones), and that's the only reason to do anything in any of the veteran zones. Apart from that, people go to Craglorn to grind and that's the end game right now.

Edit of the edit: I voted no, in case that's not clear. It disappears upon editing for a typo, apparently.

Redlag · July 2014

Yes

Yes

and the people who quit that ZOS wants back. Aren't here to vote.

SFBryan18 · July 2014

No

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

It really doesn't matter what the poll says, most people voting don't make video games and should not have a voice on the matter. The devs should make the game however they see fit as they know their game better than anyone.

That's sort of like saying people that buy rotten fruit from the supermarket should just shut up and eat it. They aren't farmers after all. They didn't plant and water and harvest the crops.

They just showed up with the MONEY.

No ones forcing you to buy rotten fruit anymore than their forcing you to play this game. If you reached vr content, then you got your money's worth. The choice to stay is yours.

I could easily say the same about the people who cry about a learning curve and having to group for anything in an "MMO." But the WoW crowd always get their way, don't they.

First off, I shouldn't have even accepted the terrible analogy. This game has nothing in common with rotten fruit and surely you can try harder to make a decent point.

Second, I said the devs shouldn't listen to ANYONE. L2R.

framatcheb17_ESO · July 2014

No

I did the whole content as a heal Templar playing at contact in light armor which sounds a suicide. (No armor, most of the time small dps)
It was unbalanced but probably because I refused to change my role.
They told "you can play as you want" so I did.
This concept was kinda broken in VR content.
But it forced me to discover all my templar skills and other weapon skills (I only raised to 50 healing and destruction staff, and a bit 1H+Shied)
Which is a good point, i enjoyed it.
It forced me to learn to always be blocking, which is also good (i already was dodging)
And in a few quests in the last map and in a few public dungeons I had to group to finish the quests.

Now, since last patch, the main infighting aoe attack i was using was improved so it heals for 40% of the damage. So it should be more easy with packs today.

The bad point of veteran content is that : if you try it alone (which i do because i like to test and move the limits of my toon)
- its unbalanced. Throwing knive for example, if i would miss to block because i did no see it coming in a pack, was hiting me for 8-900. I only had 2k+ health with food. Most kind of mobs have at least one overpower skill.
- its unrewarding in respect of the difficulty. Long hard work needs cool reward.
- its very long and even if you do all the quests while killing as much as mobs as possible, without doing the closed dungeon, you may miss up to 20% of your level at the end of the map (in the last maps). You should find a way where only doing the main quest of a map would be enough or something.
- There are no solo daily quest in the last v11 map. That would give a way to relax alone and win some gold and potions without the need to grind for hours.
- It's boring and facerolling when played in group. So maybe that there should be two challenging ways to do it, one for solo, and one for groups.

That was for me, and i think i did it the less easy way possible

Animus0724 · July 2014

No

framatcheb17_ESO wrote: »

I did the whole content as a heal Templar playing at contact in light armor which sounds a suicide. (No armor, most of the time small dps)
It was unbalanced but probably because I refused to change my role.
They told "you can play as you want" so I did.
This concept was kinda broken in VR content.
But it forced me to discover all my templar skills and other weapon skills (I only raised to 50 healing and destruction staff, and a bit 1H+Shied)
Which is a good point, i enjoyed it.
It forced me to learn to always be blocking, which is also good (i already was dodging)
And in a few quests in the last map and in a few public dungeons I had to group to finish the quests.

I cut out a lot in the quote just to minimize the quote pyramid, but I have to agree, after face rolling through 1-50, vr1 forced me learn hot to use blocks and dodge rolls, this made me a better pvper in the process.

After doing dungeons with a group, I realized my high single target DPS wasn't doing the group any good with large mobs, this forced me to invest in AOE skills and learn how to use the effectively, this made me much more viable in group dungeons as I can switch out skills before certain fights.

All in all, vet content has made me a better player, more helpful in group situations, better pvper and a team player (learning how to target mobs trying to kill your healer) instead of dps racing

Allicus · July 2014

No

I voted no because after going through it all I realised that I enjoyed the challenge especially when I went back and experienced the earlier zones and Coldharbour to finish off the world bosses and realised how easy they were.

I believe the issue is that there is a step up from normal levels to veteran levels, which requires you to adapt and use different skills you may not have use before. Some people make the change others don't, play the same way and then quit complaining that its too hard.

DW/Bow NB - 7/7 Medium armour

Dusty5 · July 2014

No

To quote a World Famous Canadian Band. Now there is no more Oak oppression. For they passed a noble law. and the trees are all kept equal by hatchet/ax and saw. The problem with vet lvls was not the monsters. It was the fact they stopped giving players ability points. the player cap on regen well really the whole list needs to be removed so players get full use of skills and items. Give the players their development back. and up date the drops some. Do not use an ax when a pocket knife will do the job just fine

Tabbycat · July 2014

Yes

Eh I've not gotten into veteran content yet (outside of pre-launch PTS) but there is no other option and I wanted to see the poll results.

Prokonto · July 2014

No

Vr content is not to hard but it is not enough rewarding in exp & gold to be worth of time to me. so i grided Craglorn bosses

demenzia · July 2014

No

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

It really doesn't matter what the poll says, most people voting don't make video games and should not have a voice on the matter. The devs should make the game however they see fit as they know their game better than anyone.

That's sort of like saying people that buy rotten fruit from the supermarket should just shut up and eat it. They aren't farmers after all. They didn't plant and water and harvest the crops.

They just showed up with the MONEY.

On the one hand you're right, we are customers and we have legal rights to complain. On the other hand, your comparison is not accurate. This rotten fruit you're talking about is Mac client for example (had played on OSX for more than 2 months and it was painful experience

), plus lags, bugs, fps drop etc. However in this thread some people complain that they bought a lemon and wow it tastes like a lemon, that it's sour, but they want it to be sweet. Games are supposed to be challenging, VR zones should not be easy to play. When they watch horror film they probably don't complain that some things they see can scare them, do they?

cracker81 · July 2014

No

Here it comes... L2P... Oh yes I it.

demenzia · July 2014

No

Animus0724 wrote: »

framatcheb17_ESO wrote: »

I did the whole content as a heal Templar playing at contact in light armor which sounds a suicide. (No armor, most of the time small dps)
It was unbalanced but probably because I refused to change my role.
They told "you can play as you want" so I did.
This concept was kinda broken in VR content.
But it forced me to discover all my templar skills and other weapon skills (I only raised to 50 healing and destruction staff, and a bit 1H+Shied)
Which is a good point, i enjoyed it.
It forced me to learn to always be blocking, which is also good (i already was dodging)
And in a few quests in the last map and in a few public dungeons I had to group to finish the quests.

I cut out a lot in the quote just to minimize the quote pyramid, but I have to agree, after face rolling through 1-50, vr1 forced me learn hot to use blocks and dodge rolls, this made me a better pvper in the process.

After doing dungeons with a group, I realized my high single target DPS wasn't doing the group any good with large mobs, this forced me to invest in AOE skills and learn how to use the effectively, this made me much more viable in group dungeons as I can switch out skills before certain fights.

All in all, vet content has made me a better player, more helpful in group situations, better pvper and a team player (learning how to target mobs trying to kill your healer) instead of dps racing

Hear, hear

That's what I want from VR content - to become a better player, to learn how to use skills in order to face challenges, not what some people suggest "if it's too easy for you, remove your armour and use only light attacks"

SootyTX · July 2014

Yes

framatcheb17_ESO wrote: »

I did the whole content as a heal Templar playing at contact in light armor which sounds a suicide. (No armor, most of the time small dps)
It was unbalanced but probably because I refused to change my role.
They told "you can play as you want" so I did.
This concept was kinda broken in VR content.
But it forced me to discover all my templar skills and other weapon skills (I only raised to 50 healing and destruction staff, and a bit 1H+Shied)

<snip>

That was for me, and i think i did it the less easy way possible

Actually, you did it the easiest way possible, except maybe a DK in LA+resto/destro.

Your playstyle choice is significantly more powerful and easier to use in VR content than any other, which is why 75% of players are now using that same combination.

Nothing personal, but a resto/destro user getting through VR is easy mode compared to many others.

AshTal · July 2014

Yes

Some of it does seem too hard. Not all of it but fighting 3 mobs is very difficult they seem to do a lot of damage while I seem to do very little damage. So far I have got to Vet 4 with no deaths outside PvP so it's not like it's impossible but some NPC's need to be balanced a bit, lower health etc.

Big issue I have is that I don't really know why my Pact Argonian is going out of his way to help Dagger fall and some of the NPC's should already be dead/known to me as I have already met them. I suspect if I felt more engaged in the story I might grind more and then it might be easier?

xaraan · July 2014

Yes

I voted yes, but not because it's too hard to slog through. You can do it, it's just more irritation than challenge IMO because they went about making vet zones harder the wrong way.

Instead of just doubling the power and health of mobs (making the player feel like they are less powerful fighting three guys in V1 than they did fighting 3 level 48 guys, even if they were underleveled for the L48. I think they should have tried a few other things like making a three pull into a four pull for example.

This game has always had a little bit of a problem with getting balance right. You can go from faceroll to instadeath in a few steps by picking the wrong fight, walking to the wrong place or boss, etc. That's just amplified by the vet mob power level.

NadiusMaximus · July 2014

No

No. If I get to a point that I start having a hard time, I take that as a gear check. Up my grade of gear, play smarter and get back into rolling stuff.
Vet lol are hard once in a while, but just group up.

AleriSadasIndoril · July 2014

No

I would prefer a button to activate an additional higher difficulty Hard Mode.

martinhpb16_ESO · July 2014

No

The challenge is the only thing that makes vet zones interesting. Otherwise it would only be a quest snooze-fest for me.

martinhpb16_ESO · July 2014

No

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

I do think the difficulty borders on insane/impossible. I have parked my main at VR2. Im barely playing alts at this time praying zenimax fixes this before I tire of paying to bang my head into a wall.

Still parked Ragnar, even though many people have given you loads of tactics to push through.

Dekkameron · July 2014

No

Vet content isn't hard at all. It can be tricky sometimes with certain builds that might lack the ability to fight multiple enemies, but it's still not hard.

I have so far used in VR levels...

Templar (sword/shield-resto) Light armoured magika based VR5:Everything is just super easy, all public dungeons are a walkover with possibly the exception of some bosses.
Nightblade (sword/shield-destro) Heavy armoured magika based VR3: Can sometimes have issues with large groups of mobs in public dungeons, but otherwise practically immortal especially good against world bosses due to insane resists and siphon skills.
Nightblade (Bow-Bow) Medium armoured stamina based VR2: Generally can trot along destroying all comers with bombard spam, can run into issues against bosses that are immune to CC.
Dragonknight (Sword/shield-resto) Light armoured magika based V2: Similar to the Templar.

martinhpb16_ESO · July 2014

No

DigitalHype wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

They are making the Vet levels easier. But for those who like it hard, there is a new hard-code mode too.

You start off as a L1 templar, but you only have a sword and board and heavy armor. You can never use any other weapon type or armour and at L15, you do get a weapon swap, but its just another sword and board (you still get the extra 'skill slots' tho).

Leveling from 1 to V12 with only ever using a sword and board with heavy armor....hard-code mode (doable tho)

When you're done with that, try it in medium armor.

Its perfectly do-able in medium armour

Dekkameron · July 2014

No

Dusty5 wrote: »

To quote a World Famous Canadian Band. Now there is no more Oak oppression. For they passed a noble law. and the trees are all kept equal by hatchet/ax and saw.

Justin Beiber sung that?

..........

:P

RatsnevE · July 2014

Yes

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

The challenge is the only thing that makes vet zones interesting. Otherwise it would only be a quest snooze-fest for me.

EXACTLY... This is why I have no interest in Veteran zones--because I am interested in Questing and the story at that point if there was one and not fighting challenges.

RatsnevE · July 2014

Yes

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Still parked Ragnar, even though many people have given you loads of tactics to push through.

Once again you think the only rightful solution is to brings us up to your (hardcore) level of strategy but that is not my interest at least. If you gave me one of your successful characters and trained me properly in how she was to be used I wouldn't be interested. I wouldn't 'enjoy' the mechanics involved. So don't go feeling frustrated or disappointed in us if we ignore your efforts.

The only thing that makes any sense to me is separate servers--one for a powerful story and quest driven game without Veteran or PvP. The casual gamer would keep achievements earned from character to character too. Solo play throughout the world would be possible and there would be no main story forced solo only boss battles. The solo gamer might skip many dungeons and bosses but wouldn't get stuck unable to finish the story because they lacked the desire or interest in fighting something solo only.

And the second weak on story and quests but powerful on Veteran and PvP challenges. This ESO would keep achievements separate to each character as the game does now. A character early on in an alliance would be focused more on crafting necessity and more on challenging group battles where solo play would largely be impossible with group and guild development critical.

Stratti · July 2014

No

born2beagator wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Very simple if you were to nerf the content for me as a player the most likely outcome would be for me to leave the game and return to WoW when WoD launches - if no company is willing to go with tougher content then why play in a smaller sandbox

Bye then. Enjoy world of cartooncraft

Maybe you missed my point . Nerfing content to make it easier trivialises the content. Why would I stay with a low population MMO with little interaction AND trivial content when I can return to a high population MMO with high interaction AND trivial content...

See my point or where you to quick to be cheeky and someone called that insightful

LonePirate · July 2014

Yes

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

No. If I get to a point that I start having a hard time, I take that as a gear check. Up my grade of gear, play smarter and get back into rolling stuff.
Vet lol are hard once in a while, but just group up.

You really have no concept of gameplay in the Veteran levels do you? Most people increase levels so slowly once they hit VR1 that they upgrade their gear every single level. Not only that, but playing smarter such as using crowd control skills, AOE and defensive techniques like bashing, blocking and interrupting are already in the rotation for most people. When you're already playing at maximum, someone cannot simply "play smarter" as you suggest. Not only that but Veteran zones, especially the upper zones (VR8-10) are ghost towns. I can spend hours in them and never see another player running around or even posting in zone chat. You can't group with people who are not present, let alone the near impossibility of finding someone to join your a quest due to phasing issues.

I swear the vast majority of people answering No to this poll have not hit the upper Veteran zones and have no idea what hell and pain awaits them there.