Do you think veteran content is too hard?
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NoIt can be challenging, but it is all doable. Sure there were a few fights that infuriated me and there were times it felt like a bit of a grind... but looking back on it, the difficulty was spot on.
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesChange Approved for those that need it. Reserve difficulty for endgame raiding and pvp.
And what about the people who bought ESO but are not interested in raiding due the RL commitments it takes?
Should they now all unsub or will we get some awesome Pokémon pet battle system like at WOW as compensation?
Its really annoying that people tend to think that only raiding is where it should be hard... Not everyone likes raiding, I bet that more than 80% never put feet into a raid dungeon and with the loss of the solo and small scale content that VR currently is, these people will have nothing left in this game.
You burry your own grave by supporting these changes, the open world will die out and in the end you wont even have players for your raid content just like it is now with WOW where people even pay your real money so you heal for their guild ...
Welcome to overreaction theater. I sympathize with those that really enjoyed the hard mode solo experience. But we haven't even seen the changes yet for one thing. To suggest that reducing the health and damage of VR zone mobs is somehow going to instantly destroy the game like a fireball from from space is just a tad dramatic.
And yes, the Craglorn content is scaled much more appropriately than the upper VR zones. A mob of 3 in V10 zones is harder than a mob of 5 in Craglorn.
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Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesI voted yes, so I suppose I'm one of those milk drinking carebears. Really, I'm just a casual player who never came from the WoW crowd or any other combat oriented MMO. Although I expect the veteran levels to be a challenge, I don't want to keep getting my ass handed to me every 5 minutes by some trash mobs. And really, this poll doesn't mean squat. I'm sure ZOS is keeping numbers of who is going where and I'm sure they are seeing exactly what I'm seeing, the VR zones are ghost towns. They are loosing subs by the dozens because of the VR grind so they had to do something about it. So I applaud the changes they are making and finally look forward to what's ahead.4 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭NoAlphashado wrote: »
Welcome to overreaction theater. I sympathize with those that really enjoyed the hard mode solo experience. But we haven't even seen the changes yet for one thing. To suggest that reducing the health and damage of VR zone mobs is somehow going to instantly destroy the game like a fireball from from space is just a tad dramatic.
And yes, the Craglorn content is scaled much more appropriately than the upper VR zones. A mob of 3 in V10 zones is harder than a mob of 5 in Craglorn.
Which means that if this fix is just a generic nerf to all vet content mobs those inconsistencies will still exist. Trash will still be more powerful than bosses. Groups of 3 with a summoner will still be more challenging that most solo dungeons.Edited by Hilgara on July 4, 2014 4:07PM2 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoI made a post why I dont think Vet 1-6 is to hard. I have no standing on craglorn
However, if someone says Graglorn is to hard, and are vet 3, trying to solo, then go read up.
Short version. The jump from 50-vet 1 is VERY good. Felt like a new game! I got to test my skills again and exploring playing questing in Vet 1-6 zones (other 2 alliances ) is freakin fun, cause you need to really keep an eye out.
Easy MMOs, I cant count how many there are to choose from.
MMO as ESO, that keeps you interested and actually dodge mobs on your way to a quest. Makes perfect sense and simply is way cooler, then run, Kill 50. dont care.
I got much better since I got vet 1, think 1.5 weeks ago?
Never though I would be able to use weapon swap in combat. Thats how slow I am...now I can!
This is Tamriel btw. "trash" mobs dont exist. Its a world. Sure, veteran players are skilled champions and could take on most.....but you are at veteran area....
Those who claims its stupid that 3 wolves can kill you. Think about it.
If 3 wolves attacked you in real.....Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"2 -
DigitalHype✭✭✭✭YesThey are making the Vet levels easier. But for those who like it hard, there is a new hard-code mode too.
You start off as a L1 templar, but you only have a sword and board and heavy armor. You can never use any other weapon type or armour and at L15, you do get a weapon swap, but its just another sword and board (you still get the extra 'skill slots' tho).
Leveling from 1 to V12 with only ever using a sword and board with heavy armor....hard-code mode (doable tho)
When you're done with that, try it in medium armor.
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KariTR✭✭✭✭✭NoVet content in Cyrodiil and Craglorn is different from other veteran content. They just aren't on the same page. If Cyrodiil and Craglorn were the standard of VR content we wouldn't be having discussions about it. It's harder than 1-50, but doesn't have high spell/armour penetration, so armour has a point, and you can use tactics other than just CC.
Isn't that how VR 1-10 used to be before the buff that was later (allegedly) reversed? Just asking because I wasn't up to VR level at the time.
No. I was 6 or 7 VRlvl DK when they changed it. VR5 NPCs in Cyrodiil are not even VR1, as it was mentioned above. I wouldn't complain about it though, cos Cyrodiil is a zone for 10+lvl players who should be able to do some stuff too. I guess they just changed their level from 50 to vr5 in order to let VR players get xp from killing mobs. Officially they are VR5, but actually they are still 50 or even lower. Personally I like this kind of compromise.
I don't use addons nor do I exp watch, but I read somewhere else that at VR levels our characters are still awarded exp from any kills of NPCs of L46 and above as L50 is technically the level cap. If I can be bothered I will return to Coldharbour and find out if this is true.
If it is, I just wish all those who found VR too 'hard' had stayed there to grind out their Veteran ranks.1 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭YesYes, the difficulty makes veteran leveling to difficult for me. Although I too have around 50 days paid my solution is not to venture far into veteran but start a character in another alliance only playing so far as to recover the characters soul. A huge part of the problem I feel is promoting PvP which I have no interest in. Even in PvE playing solo in a public dungeon is terrible.
Ppl who vote 'yes' don't like the difficulty. People who vote 'no' like the challenge. Do you see the difference here?Edited by RatsnevE on July 4, 2014 6:10PM0 -
demenzia✭✭✭NoVet content in Cyrodiil and Craglorn is different from other veteran content. They just aren't on the same page. If Cyrodiil and Craglorn were the standard of VR content we wouldn't be having discussions about it. It's harder than 1-50, but doesn't have high spell/armour penetration, so armour has a point, and you can use tactics other than just CC.
Isn't that how VR 1-10 used to be before the buff that was later (allegedly) reversed? Just asking because I wasn't up to VR level at the time.
No. I was 6 or 7 VRlvl DK when they changed it. VR5 NPCs in Cyrodiil are not even VR1, as it was mentioned above. I wouldn't complain about it though, cos Cyrodiil is a zone for 10+lvl players who should be able to do some stuff too. I guess they just changed their level from 50 to vr5 in order to let VR players get xp from killing mobs. Officially they are VR5, but actually they are still 50 or even lower. Personally I like this kind of compromise.
I don't use addons nor do I exp watch, but I read somewhere else that at VR levels our characters are still awarded exp from any kills of NPCs of L46 and above as L50 is technically the level cap. If I can be bothered I will return to Coldharbour and find out if this is true.
If it is, I just wish all those who found VR too 'hard' had stayed there to grind out their Veteran ranks.
Yes, we do get xp now, but as remember I didn't get xp in Cyrodiil before the changes, only for killing other players and other alliances' guards (not sure about guards though), that's why I think they made them VR5 without changing the actual level. I didn't get xp in Coldharbour either for killing mobs when I went there being VR10 , maybe it has changed though, idk
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesAlphashado wrote: »
Welcome to overreaction theater. I sympathize with those that really enjoyed the hard mode solo experience. But we haven't even seen the changes yet for one thing. To suggest that reducing the health and damage of VR zone mobs is somehow going to instantly destroy the game like a fireball from from space is just a tad dramatic.
And yes, the Craglorn content is scaled much more appropriately than the upper VR zones. A mob of 3 in V10 zones is harder than a mob of 5 in Craglorn.
Which means that if this fix is just a generic nerf to all vet content mobs those inconsistencies will still exist. Trash will still be more powerful than bosses. Groups of 3 with a summoner will still be more challenging that most solo dungeons.
Trash mobs did not feel more powerful than bosses in 1-50. And that is the same feel they are shooting for with this change.
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Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoIt's not and it's a joke that they're going to nerf it before fixing the balance issues with armor classes and weapon skill lines. Which also goes in line with dodging and CC breaks needing to be reworked.
However, there are certain mobs that need to be toned down (gargoyles, harvesters, atronachs, and the like) and the ability for mobs to spam CC effects (the 2h uppercut comes to mind) archers of all kind need to be toned down.
Mobs should not have endless resources to cast these abilities over and over again. Such as the healing mobs with their endless heals unless they get interrupted. Melee has an interrupt, range doesn't.
With that being said, the rewards are the true problem in my eyes. They have a perfectly fine stick, the line needs some work but they forgot to put a carrot on the end.Edited by Arsenic_Touch on July 4, 2014 6:31PM☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
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NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB1 -
Arora✭✭✭Nocongratulations whinners, now vet will not be an achievement but a hand me like all the other levels. Now, everyone will be VR 12 and end game content will come to fast.
Either that or it will take longer, they will make them weaker and drop the experience, I am unsure which route it will goArora Moon - EB- Nightblade
Arora Moonlight- EB- Sorcerer
- GM Souless-
Hail Sithis - Glory to the Night Mother3 -
SootyTX✭✭✭YesI voted yes because I feel the OP is being disingenuous with the 2 options presented.
It's not 'too hard' per se. Its actually very easy when you accept one of two things;
1) change to LA+staff and enter easy mode
2) expect at least one death per 3 mob trash encounter
For the non-staff users, another poster in the main thread discussing this pointed it out very well;
1) Attack the multiple mob group and kill one of them
2) Die
3) Resurrect and kill the remaining one or two mobs
4) Rinse and repeat until armour is broken
5) Craft new armour
Its not 'too hard'. It's not even challenging. It's dull, repetitive and utterly devoid of merit. Either switch build or accept that you'll be using 30-40 soul gems per zone and carry on.
Both are pretty crappy options that I'm extremely glad the devs are now addressing.1 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoI voted yes because I feel the OP is being disingenuous with the 2 options presented.
It's not 'too hard' per se. Its actually very easy when you accept one of two things;
1) change to LA+staff and enter easy mode
2) expect at least one death per 3 mob trash encounter
For the non-staff users, another poster in the main thread discussing this pointed it out very well;
1) Attack the multiple mob group and kill one of them
2) Die
3) Resurrect and kill the remaining one or two mobs
4) Rinse and repeat until armour is broken
5) Craft new armour
Its not 'too hard'. It's not even challenging. It's dull, repetitive and utterly devoid of merit. Either switch build or accept that you'll be using 30-40 soul gems per zone and carry on.
Both are pretty crappy options that I'm extremely glad the devs are now addressing.
Do you ever bother changing the abilities on your bar? Volcanic Rune is an excellent CC ability that ANY class can gain access to through Mages Guild, but all classes have some for of crowd control.
It makes me so depressed that so many people take a unique and intelligent game like this where you are encouraged to ADAPT and try new things and just throw their hands up and cry for nerfs the first time they run into any trouble with the five abilities they have chosen.
People don't even know what they are missing. Watch a month from now, when everyone is bored with using the same five abilities to faceroll easy-mode content and start to wonder, where is that challenge and intelligent "play how you want" adaptability I was promised?"
So depressing.6 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭NoVery simple if you were to nerf the content for me as a player the most likely outcome would be for me to leave the game and return to WoW when WoD launches - if no company is willing to go with tougher content then why play in a smaller sandbox3 -
vmoped✭✭NoI said no, but mean that only in regards to if the combat and lag issues were resolved it would not be. Currently it is, but not because of the content, rather the systems that cause animation skipping, server side latency, etc... that lead to death outside of your control. Fix the game first I say. Then we can talk about balance once things do what they are supposed to do.
Cheers!2 -
born2beagator✭✭✭✭YesVery simple if you were to nerf the content for me as a player the most likely outcome would be for me to leave the game and return to WoW when WoD launches - if no company is willing to go with tougher content then why play in a smaller sandbox
Bye then. Enjoy world of cartooncraft3 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭NoAlienDiplomat wrote: »I voted yes because I feel the OP is being disingenuous with the 2 options presented.
It's not 'too hard' per se. Its actually very easy when you accept one of two things;
1) change to LA+staff and enter easy mode
2) expect at least one death per 3 mob trash encounter
For the non-staff users, another poster in the main thread discussing this pointed it out very well;
1) Attack the multiple mob group and kill one of them
2) Die
3) Resurrect and kill the remaining one or two mobs
4) Rinse and repeat until armour is broken
5) Craft new armour
Its not 'too hard'. It's not even challenging. It's dull, repetitive and utterly devoid of merit. Either switch build or accept that you'll be using 30-40 soul gems per zone and carry on.
Both are pretty crappy options that I'm extremely glad the devs are now addressing.
Do you ever bother changing the abilities on your bar? Volcanic Rune is an excellent CC ability that ANY class can gain access to through Mages Guild, but all classes have some for of crowd control.
It makes me so depressed that so many people take a unique and intelligent game like this where you are encouraged to ADAPT and try new things and just throw their hands up and cry for nerfs the first time they run into any trouble with the five abilities they have chosen.
People don't even know what they are missing. Watch a month from now, when everyone is bored with using the same five abilities to faceroll easy-mode content and start to wonder, where is that challenge and intelligent "play how you want" adaptability I was promised?"
So depressing.
5 months try 3 weeks2 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Noborn2beagator wrote: »Very simple if you were to nerf the content for me as a player the most likely outcome would be for me to leave the game and return to WoW when WoD launches - if no company is willing to go with tougher content then why play in a smaller sandbox
Bye then. Enjoy world of cartooncraft
If the nerf of content has such a massive impact on the subs like it had at LOTRO, WOW and other games then there will soon be no more game for you to play.
Keep in mind, this isn't WOW which can live with a 6 million loss of subs due the nerfed content. ESO might have a few hundred K, if half of them leave what's left?
You wont be able to finance the game on your own, you need to realize that!
I would imagine that many people who are annoyed by the nerf move over to WS, as there the challenge still exists.
People play games for mechanics and design, not for graphics by the way.
ESO shipped with the promise to be different than other MMO´s, to offer challenging open world content for everyone, solo and in groups. The Devs clearly said this wont be a raid or die game, this will be a game with VR content for non raiders with decisions and real brain activity.
Right now that promise is on the line and if Monday came we will all know if they broke it.4 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Noborn2beagator wrote: »Everyone keeps talking about "massive" nerf. You don't know that.
When has ZoS ever done anything halfway? just look at their track record and you'll understand why people are acting the way that they are. Had they said that they were going to address the issues with class balances and stamina skills, the bugged skills and the missing carrot before tweaking difficulty of veteran content, then I would be able to look forward to their changes but when they say they're going to make things easier without even touching on the real problems, I am going to voice my concern.☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB3 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nocongratulations whinners, now vet will not be an achievement but a hand me like all the other levels. Now, everyone will be VR 12 and end game content will come to fast.
Either that or it will take longer, they will make them weaker and drop the experience, I am unsure which route it will go
keep on making exaggerated assumptions Arora, you excel at it.1 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YesArsenic_Touch wrote: »born2beagator wrote: »Everyone keeps talking about "massive" nerf. You don't know that.
When has ZoS ever done anything halfway? just look at their track record and you'll understand why people are acting the way that they are. Had they said that they were going to address the issues with class balances and stamina skills, the bugged skills and the missing carrot before tweaking difficulty of veteran content, then I would be able to look forward to their changes but when they say they're going to make things easier without even touching on the real problems, I am going to voice my concern.
I can certainly sympathize with you on that. There's been many times when I've heard that ZOS is going to change something and I've cringed because I know what's coming. I remain hopeful that this change will not be as bad as some think it's going to be and enough of a change to encourage players who dropped their subs once they got stuck in VR content to return to the game.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%1 -
demenzia✭✭✭NoArsenic_Touch wrote: »born2beagator wrote: »Everyone keeps talking about "massive" nerf. You don't know that.
When has ZoS ever done anything halfway? just look at their track record and you'll understand why people are acting the way that they are. Had they said that they were going to address the issues with class balances and stamina skills, the bugged skills and the missing carrot before tweaking difficulty of veteran content, then I would be able to look forward to their changes but when they say they're going to make things easier without even touching on the real problems, I am going to voice my concern.
I can certainly sympathize with you on that. There's been many times when I've heard that ZOS is going to change something and I've cringed because I know what's coming. I remain hopeful that this change will not be as bad as some think it's going to be and enough of a change to encourage players who dropped their subs once they got stuck in VR content to return to the game.
If these players cancelled their subs because VR content is too difficult for them (and not because of bugs, lags etc.), then I hope they won't return, because it will cause another wave of moaning that it's still hard for them to play. VR content may not be easy, but it's not nightmare level, it is at the level that VR should be in my opinion.
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michaelb14a_ESO2✭✭✭✭NoYea I have to say it's definitely concerning that nerfing the content to become more soloable is being done before combat, class balance and skill bugs/passives are fixed.
How do we know the content isn't soloable once these above mentioned problems areas themselves are fixed and balanced? The reality is that they are tweaking content to fit broken game mechanics that, to be honest, once fixed will require yet more VR content tweaks. I'm not so much concerned that they want VR content to be soloable, my concern is that the reason they are jumping to this.... is because they simply CANT fix whats actually broken.
/sighEdited by michaelb14a_ESO2 on July 5, 2014 4:38AM1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesThere is a similar poll with slightly different wording that has very different results. These polls are very inconsistant and seldom have any more than a few hundred votes. The only thing these polls show conclusively is that the small % of gamers that come to this forum is very divided on this issue.
Zos would never make a business decision based on a metric involving a few hundred people. Let's be real.2 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoIt really doesn't matter what the poll says, most people voting don't make video games and should not have a voice on the matter. The devs should make the game however they see fit as they know their game better than anyone.Edited by SFBryan18 on July 5, 2014 5:43AM2 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoIt really doesn't matter what the poll says, most people voting don't make video games and should not have a voice on the matter. The devs should make the game however they see fit as they know their game better than anyone.
That's sort of like saying people that buy rotten fruit from the supermarket should just shut up and eat it. They aren't farmers after all. They didn't plant and water and harvest the crops.
They just showed up with the MONEY.3