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When will they nerf DK again for PVP?
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SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭I continually steal your builds @asweetroll.
Wait what?Edited by SRIBES on July 3, 2014 9:23AM0 -
mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Reflective Scale is an essential PvE skill that group dungeon bosses seem to have been designed around.
Again a thing where DKs have it better than Templars.
If I understood you right, Reflective Scale works even on bosses? Templar's Eclipse often does not work (Target too powerful)
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OkieDokie✭✭✭It is pretty obvious that reflective scale needs some change. Not sure how to do it though, but clearly one skill (quite cheap compared to others with similar and inferior effect) that requires a lot of measures to counter can't be quite balanced.
Edited by OkieDokie on July 3, 2014 11:17AMPeople keep saying they heard of a friend of friend of friend of their neighbors that plays a NB and can catch up with dks and sorcs and this guy just never shows up. He would be a rock star if he existed.2 -
sagitter✭✭✭✭✭It is pretty obvious that reflective scale needs some change. Not sure how to do it though, but clearly one skill (quite cheap compared to others with similar and inferior effect) that requires a lot of measures to counter can't be quite balanced.
Reflective scales it's stupid, it neutralizes 95% of range offensive abilities and makes 100% reversed damage killing uself, so you are forced to melee vs Dk making ranged build totally worthless.Edited by sagitter on July 4, 2014 6:37AM1 -
ForTheRealm✭✭✭It is pretty obvious that reflective scale needs some change. Not sure how to do it though, but clearly one skill (quite cheap compared to others with similar and inferior effect) that requires a lot of measures to counter can't be quite balanced.
Reflective scales it's stupid, it neutralizes 95% of range offensive abilities and makes 100% reversed damage killing uself, so you are forced to melee vs Dk making ranged build totally worthless.
DK does not have any long-ranged (22+m) abilities.
Against a caster attacking at that range, DK can only react (use Scales). If a caster does not cast any projectile spell DK can do nothing to the player at 22+m range.
I see players killing themselves in PvP while trying to get DK, but it is happening only if a caster is spamming spells without looking at the opponent reaction.
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piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »
DK does not have any long-ranged (22+m) abilities.
Against a caster attacking at that range, DK can only react (use Scales). If a caster does not cast any projectile spell DK can do nothing to the player at 22+m range.
Just like other classes can only react if they stand in Talons/Standard of Might
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ForTheRealm✭✭✭monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »
DK does not have any long-ranged (22+m) abilities.
Against a caster attacking at that range, DK can only react (use Scales). If a caster does not cast any projectile spell DK can do nothing to the player at 22+m range.
Just like other classes can only react if they stand in Talons/Standard of Might
Other classes can break through Talons, except Sorcerers who have a choice to break or just to Bolt Escape with Talons.
Standard of Might is an Ultimate and ultimates needs time to generate, so it cannot be casted every second.
BTW, your respond is not related to the topic of the thread - which is Scales ability not Talons or Standard.1 -
SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭It is pretty obvious that reflective scale needs some change. Not sure how to do it though, but clearly one skill (quite cheap compared to others with similar and inferior effect) that requires a lot of measures to counter can't be quite balanced.
Reflective scales it's stupid, it neutralizes 95% of range offensive abilities and makes 100% reversed damage killing uself, so you are forced to melee vs Dk making ranged build totally worthless.
Don't use projectiles if they don't have scales up. Make sure the projectile you're using doesn't have a cast time; any good DragonKnight will active scales by the time you finish your cast. If your build revolves around projectiles that is your fault for making it revolve around projectiles. Having a build revolve around projectiles is pretty damn unbeatable in a 1v1 since you can kite them around and nuke them at a range, there is a counter and that is scales. One class has the ability, there is a chance they will have it on there bar. In most fights you won't be running into a dk who uses it.
I think sybrane is a little silly, since it restores magika when you reflect stamina attacks. Ex. Bow attacks/flying blade restore magika. So it doesn't drain magika, just stamina. Leaving the RS caster with lots of magika but little stamina. This can be countered by simply stunning the enemy. I think the best way to beat RS casters is melee.
Vel familiar for sorcerer gives me a hard ass time as the stun doesn't give CC immunity and the damage can't be blocked. Some people keep there damage shields up while they explode there pet then eso resto heals when they get low health. I'm unsure if the empowered ward morph increases the pets damage but if that's the case it could make using a resto staff+combat prayer at full health have your pet pretty damn hard.
Nightblades shades rip through peoples stamina, I don't play a nb but I have encountered multiple nbs that can tank a lot of hits and heal themselves up.
Templars just don't really have a problem with dks imo.
Dk vs dk comes down to skill.1 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Refelctive Scales is fine. It is ignorance or plain stupidity that is the problem here. If you are NOT going to research the abilities that other classes have then you have no business in PvP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28g9LCqNBD0
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SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭
Sure, i'm on the side that it's not a OP ability, just a strong one. But that's a bad example, the sorcerer in the video thought he had the jump on him, by the time fragments was in the air he used reflect. The guy may not have had addons resulting in him not realizing he was fighting a dragonknight. Everyone does have to learn at some point, and there's not a huge chance that every single dk build uses scale. I guess you could say the sorc should have gone in sneak, that's what I would have done if I were the sorc and had the jump.tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Refelctive Scales is fine. It is ignorance or plain stupidity that is the problem here. If you are NOT going to research the abilities that other classes have then you have no business in PvP.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28g9LCqNBD0Edited by SRIBES on July 5, 2014 3:44AM1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AsweetRoll wrote: »
Sure, i'm on the side that it's not a OP ability, just a strong one. But that's a bad example, the sorcerer in the video thought he had the jump on him, by the time fragments was in the air he used reflect. The guy may not have had addons resulting in him not realizing he was fighting a dragonknight. Everyone does have to learn at some point, and there's not a huge chance that every single dk build uses scale. I guess you could say the sorc should have gone in sneak, that's what I would have done if I were the sorc and had the jump.tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Refelctive Scales is fine. It is ignorance or plain stupidity that is the problem here. If you are NOT going to research the abilities that other classes have then you have no business in PvP.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28g9LCqNBD0
Maybe as a DK you just don't realize how often you see those wings because you don't have projectiles, but wings are now a constant sight in pvp. I wouldn't be surprised if 75%+ of DK are using them regularly.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭
So lets do some math, assuming that 25% of the ESO population picked the dragonknight class since there 4 classes, and you're saying 75% of dks are using it, that's about a 18% chance of a dragonknight having it on a hotbar. Now lets remember there are lower level dks in PvP and also not every dk PvPs. So this drops the chance of you running into a scale user ever lower, now encountering a scale user or dragonknight is a whole other chance. So it's a pretty damn low chance of you running into a scale user, while it's still a chance, it's unlikely, I would say you have about a 9% chance of running into one. Of course this can vary, this is just theoretically speaking.AsweetRoll wrote: »
Sure, i'm on the side that it's not a OP ability, just a strong one. But that's a bad example, the sorcerer in the video thought he had the jump on him, by the time fragments was in the air he used reflect. The guy may not have had addons resulting in him not realizing he was fighting a dragonknight. Everyone does have to learn at some point, and there's not a huge chance that every single dk build uses scale. I guess you could say the sorc should have gone in sneak, that's what I would have done if I were the sorc and had the jump.tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Refelctive Scales is fine. It is ignorance or plain stupidity that is the problem here. If you are NOT going to research the abilities that other classes have then you have no business in PvP.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28g9LCqNBD0
Maybe as a DK you just don't realize how often you see those wings because you don't have projectiles, but wings are now a constant sight in pvp. I wouldn't be surprised if 75%+ of DK are using them regularly.
And if your a sorc vel familar is honestly the perfect counter it absolutely wrecks ***. There is no CC immunity from it and it hits pretty hard. If you have cost reduction rigs and neck and 7/7 light in worm cult and have other gear with seducer or something you can get its cost next to nothing+ the 20% magika restore on death. The stun can be blocked but the damage can't be. Tanking out the damage from the player with a sword and shield is great. It will catch dks off guard because they think your just a pet user and don't use projectiles, but when fragments proc you use it. Keeping damage shields up is great as I mentioned before also. But never block when you have damage shields up unless its for CC immunity. Does this seem to make more sense?
Edited by SRIBES on July 5, 2014 5:42AM1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AsweetRoll wrote: »
So lets do some math, assuming that 25% of the ESO population picked the dragonknight class since there 4 classes, and you're saying 75% of dks are using it, that's about a 18% chance of a dragonknight having it on a hotbar. Now lets remember there are lower level dks in PvP and also not every dk PvPs. So this drops the chance of you running into a scale user ever lower, now encountering a scale user or dragonknight is a whole other chance. So it's a pretty damn low chance of you running into a scale user, while it's still a chance, it's unlikely, I would say you have about a 9% chance of running into one. Of course this can vary, this is just theoretically speaking.AsweetRoll wrote: »
Sure, i'm on the side that it's not a OP ability, just a strong one. But that's a bad example, the sorcerer in the video thought he had the jump on him, by the time fragments was in the air he used reflect. The guy may not have had addons resulting in him not realizing he was fighting a dragonknight. Everyone does have to learn at some point, and there's not a huge chance that every single dk build uses scale. I guess you could say the sorc should have gone in sneak, that's what I would have done if I were the sorc and had the jump.tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Refelctive Scales is fine. It is ignorance or plain stupidity that is the problem here. If you are NOT going to research the abilities that other classes have then you have no business in PvP.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28g9LCqNBD0
Maybe as a DK you just don't realize how often you see those wings because you don't have projectiles, but wings are now a constant sight in pvp. I wouldn't be surprised if 75%+ of DK are using them regularly.
And if your a sorc vel familar is honestly the perfect counter it absolutely wrecks ***. There is no CC immunity from it and it hits pretty hard. If you have cost reduction rigs and neck and 7/7 light in worm cult and have other gear with seducer or something you can get its cost next to nothing+ the 20% magika restore on death. The stun can be blocked but the damage can't be. Tanking out the damage from the player with a sword and shield is great. It will catch dks off guard because they think your just a pet user and don't use projectiles, but when fragments proc you use it. Keeping damage shields up is great as I mentioned before also. But never block when you have damage shields up unless its for CC immunity. Does this seem to make more sense?
No. You make no sense at all. I say 75% of DK use scale in pvp and you go on about low level players and all this other nonsense that does not factor at all into the statement that 75% of DK use scale in pvp. You really are a dimwit and I feel every time I answer one of your posts, I get dumber myself. You're so desperate to not be nerfed, I simply mention one comment on your post and you go on some long spiel about how sorc can counter DK with vol familiar.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭AsweetRoll wrote: »
So lets do some math, assuming that 25% of the ESO population picked the dragonknight class since there 4 classes, and you're saying 75% of dks are using it, that's about a 18% chance of a dragonknight having it on a hotbar. Now lets remember there are lower level dks in PvP and also not every dk PvPs. So this drops the chance of you running into a scale user ever lower, now encountering a scale user or dragonknight is a whole other chance. So it's a pretty damn low chance of you running into a scale user, while it's still a chance, it's unlikely, I would say you have about a 9% chance of running into one. Of course this can vary, this is just theoretically speaking.AsweetRoll wrote: »
Sure, i'm on the side that it's not a OP ability, just a strong one. But that's a bad example, the sorcerer in the video thought he had the jump on him, by the time fragments was in the air he used reflect. The guy may not have had addons resulting in him not realizing he was fighting a dragonknight. Everyone does have to learn at some point, and there's not a huge chance that every single dk build uses scale. I guess you could say the sorc should have gone in sneak, that's what I would have done if I were the sorc and had the jump.tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Refelctive Scales is fine. It is ignorance or plain stupidity that is the problem here. If you are NOT going to research the abilities that other classes have then you have no business in PvP.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28g9LCqNBD0
Maybe as a DK you just don't realize how often you see those wings because you don't have projectiles, but wings are now a constant sight in pvp. I wouldn't be surprised if 75%+ of DK are using them regularly.
And if your a sorc vel familar is honestly the perfect counter it absolutely wrecks ***. There is no CC immunity from it and it hits pretty hard. If you have cost reduction rigs and neck and 7/7 light in worm cult and have other gear with seducer or something you can get its cost next to nothing+ the 20% magika restore on death. The stun can be blocked but the damage can't be. Tanking out the damage from the player with a sword and shield is great. It will catch dks off guard because they think your just a pet user and don't use projectiles, but when fragments proc you use it. Keeping damage shields up is great as I mentioned before also. But never block when you have damage shields up unless its for CC immunity. Does this seem to make more sense?
No. You make no sense at all. I say 75% of DK use scale in pvp and you go on about low level players and all this other nonsense that does not factor at all into the statement that 75% of DK use scale in pvp. You really are a dimwit and I feel every time I answer one of your posts, I get dumber myself. You're so desperate to not be nerfed, I simply mention one comment on your post and you go on some long spiel about how sorc can counter DK with vol familiar.
Woah settle down. Let me explain this to you, maybe you can understand then I will teach you how to play eso and teach you some manners.
1) 1/4 classes=25% chance of encountering a dragonknight
2) You claim 75% of dks use scales (which is bs since a lot of dks are lower levels and also PvP. Also sybrane is a must have for scale users which in that case for them to be competitive they must have the vr version. VR 5-12, if they don't have this they are less effective and scales won't really help them as much.)
3) 25% x .75= 18% chance of you encountering a dragonknight who uses scales but you don't take into account lower leveles or the ones who PvE which drops the chance even lower. But we're just throwing random numbers out there ofc. I never claimed I was desperate not to be nerfed, the amount of ignorance you put into each post is a joke.. I've admitted sybrane needs a fix but it's nothing insane like you're making it out to be. Vel familiar is what gets me, don't use it and keep geting your ass smashed bud. Up to you, "Play the way you want to play" but please don't ask for nerfs if you're not willing to use the skills or advice others have given you to beat it.
Edited by SRIBES on July 5, 2014 6:44AM2 -
sagitter✭✭✭✭✭For you it's so easy , maybe i m still noob and need some advices, but have you ever tryed a nightblade?.Ofc i m penalized cause i m a vampire also and dk's offensive abilities are all fire damage. All the shiphoning damage abilities are reflected and also bow attacks, only bombard 20 m and magnum 10 m and aoe (blah for a nightblade) are not, and that make me useless at distance 28+ m, melee vs good dk for me it's almost impossible , if i open with a stealth attack and i m able to dmg 50% they use greendblood and still out dps me due to high fire dmg.
I'm leveling a DK now and at lvl 11 i can easy kill lvl 20 mobs, and that was almost impossible with my poor nb.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I stated it before, Reflective Scale is the "Ranged" version of Blazing Shield.
one counters range, the other counters anything in melee.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭
That's a pretty good way of looking at it, considering that blazing shield can crit is insane. Hopefully people don't start calling out a nerf for that also. The only thing I see different is that there is no sybrane melee version other then magika furnace which sucks now because it was a bit OP in pvexsorusb14_ESO wrote: »I stated it before, Reflective Scale is the "Ranged" version of Blazing Shield.
one counters range, the other counters anything in melee.For you it's so easy , maybe i m still noob and need some advices, but have you ever tryed a nightblade?.Ofc i m penalized cause i m a vampire also and dk's offensive abilities are all fire damage. All the shiphoning damage abilities are reflected and also bow attacks, only bombard 20 m and magnum 10 m and aoe (blah for a nightblade) are not, and that make me useless at distance 28+ m, melee vs good dk for me it's almost impossible , if i open with a stealth attack and i m able to dmg 50% they use greendblood and still out dps me due to high fire dmg.
I'm leveling a DK now and at lvl 11 i can easy kill lvl 20 mobs, and that was almost impossible with my poor nb.
That's what you get for being a vampire. Your hurting yourself more then helping yourself imo. You don't even need to go dk, nightblade is a great class and is designed for ganking. Not tanking. Your only 50 cost ulti is great to reduce peoples healing, and i've had plenty of nbs burst me down very fast, some have managed to be tanky and bursty as well. I've seen a NB do the exact same thing that sypher did in the video with harness magika+his ult down for 0 spell damage and only magika restore on those hits. He kept using his executioner for restore when they got low health so he could move onto the next guy, he was spamming strife, which would have been countered if one of the vr 12 dks he was fighting there was using scale. I posted a pretty decent set up earlier but i'm not sure what the guy I was running with was using. I just know he was tanking like a boss and strife spam was healing him, I think he used combat prayer, not sure.
The thing I feel like nightblade lacks is a AoE root, I think it would fix so many problems people are having. Maybe make the root a poison DoT? Idk. But any class can be OP with the right build.Edited by SRIBES on July 5, 2014 7:50AM1 -
cracker81✭✭✭I watch video look like skill not op. Ppl ran into ultimate, cast spell knowing it would be reflected, did nothing to get out of cc, and some ppl just running around. Sneaking works/ line of sight1 -
cracker81✭✭✭
If I played your class I would know. For starters sneak you see some hit from back. He hit reflect don't cast spell that would be reflected. Sword and board do not put out that much damage. Most ppl are killing themselves.starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »It's my opinion, after seeing how things have gone for the last 3 months, that the PvE part of the game will soon become unplayable because of all the nerfs called for by PvP players. No more than 2 or 3 days go by without someone who got beatup in PvP, runs to the forums squealing "nerf this, nerf that, it's too OP." I never thought I'd say this but, people need to learn to play before calling for nerfs. Except for a few skills that really are broken, most of the things I see people complaining about can be countered with intellegent play. But it seems people would rather cry if they can't "win" by mashing 1 or 2 buttons. *sigh...* (rant over.)
Please enlighten me to how a ranged caster build can counter a Reflective Scales DK with intelligent play?
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AsweetRoll wrote: »AsweetRoll wrote: »
So lets do some math, assuming that 25% of the ESO population picked the dragonknight class since there 4 classes, and you're saying 75% of dks are using it, that's about a 18% chance of a dragonknight having it on a hotbar. Now lets remember there are lower level dks in PvP and also not every dk PvPs. So this drops the chance of you running into a scale user ever lower, now encountering a scale user or dragonknight is a whole other chance. So it's a pretty damn low chance of you running into a scale user, while it's still a chance, it's unlikely, I would say you have about a 9% chance of running into one. Of course this can vary, this is just theoretically speaking.AsweetRoll wrote: »
Sure, i'm on the side that it's not a OP ability, just a strong one. But that's a bad example, the sorcerer in the video thought he had the jump on him, by the time fragments was in the air he used reflect. The guy may not have had addons resulting in him not realizing he was fighting a dragonknight. Everyone does have to learn at some point, and there's not a huge chance that every single dk build uses scale. I guess you could say the sorc should have gone in sneak, that's what I would have done if I were the sorc and had the jump.tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Refelctive Scales is fine. It is ignorance or plain stupidity that is the problem here. If you are NOT going to research the abilities that other classes have then you have no business in PvP.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28g9LCqNBD0
Maybe as a DK you just don't realize how often you see those wings because you don't have projectiles, but wings are now a constant sight in pvp. I wouldn't be surprised if 75%+ of DK are using them regularly.
And if your a sorc vel familar is honestly the perfect counter it absolutely wrecks ***. There is no CC immunity from it and it hits pretty hard. If you have cost reduction rigs and neck and 7/7 light in worm cult and have other gear with seducer or something you can get its cost next to nothing+ the 20% magika restore on death. The stun can be blocked but the damage can't be. Tanking out the damage from the player with a sword and shield is great. It will catch dks off guard because they think your just a pet user and don't use projectiles, but when fragments proc you use it. Keeping damage shields up is great as I mentioned before also. But never block when you have damage shields up unless its for CC immunity. Does this seem to make more sense?
No. You make no sense at all. I say 75% of DK use scale in pvp and you go on about low level players and all this other nonsense that does not factor at all into the statement that 75% of DK use scale in pvp. You really are a dimwit and I feel every time I answer one of your posts, I get dumber myself. You're so desperate to not be nerfed, I simply mention one comment on your post and you go on some long spiel about how sorc can counter DK with vol familiar.
Woah settle down. Let me explain this to you, maybe you can understand then I will teach you how to play eso and teach you some manners.
1) 1/4 classes=25% chance of encountering a dragonknight
2) You claim 75% of dks use scales (which is bs since a lot of dks are lower levels and also PvP. Also sybrane is a must have for scale users which in that case for them to be competitive they must have the vr version. VR 5-12, if they don't have this they are less effective and scales won't really help them as much.)
3) 25% x .75= 18% chance of you encountering a dragonknight who uses scales but you don't take into account lower leveles or the ones who PvE which drops the chance even lower. But we're just throwing random numbers out there ofc. I never claimed I was desperate not to be nerfed, the amount of ignorance you put into each post is a joke.. I've admitted sybrane needs a fix but it's nothing insane like you're making it out to be. Vel familiar is what gets me, don't use it and keep geting your ass smashed bud. Up to you, "Play the way you want to play" but please don't ask for nerfs if you're not willing to use the skills or advice others have given you to beat it.
Again I feel dumb for responding but if I say 75% of DK in pvp use Scales, that has already taken into account the ones that are too low of a level to use it. Also, assuming there are just as many temp/NB as DK/sorc in pvp is probably wrong as well. I'd say dk/sorc are sitting up around 30% each at least. None of this matters at all when it comes to how OP reflective scales is, but I find it humorous how your latest tactic for defending Scales is saying that it isn't all that common (which multiple people on multiple message boards have told you is false).
You keep saying to use Vol Fam but you keep calling it Vel Familiar for some reason... leading me to believe you have never used it yourself because you don't even know the name of it. Vol Fam is slow as *** and completely useless in most situations in PVP. Any situation where a fight starts where there is distance between you and the enemy is a bad time to use Vol Familiar. Trust me, I've used it for a very extended period of time in Cyrodiil. It only works when you get the stealth jump on your opponent or in dueling situations. Yes I would use it in a duel, but duels aren't what PVP is about and do you know what is insanely powerful in the most common form of PVP (tons of ranged dmg coming from multiple opponents) ???? REFLECTIVE SCALE.
If you want to teach manners you should re-read your first entries into this thread and how often you threw around the terms crying, bitching, and whining.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »I stated it before, Reflective Scale is the "Ranged" version of Blazing Shield.
one counters range, the other counters anything in melee.
@xsorusb14_ESO
Now I don't have a templar but I'm trying to compare Blazing Shield and Reflective Scale from tooltips.
Unless the tooltip is completely wrong, Blazing Shield is not at all like Reflective Scales and it leads me to believe you do not understand why Reflective Scales is OP. I have no problem with Reflective Scale in a 1 vs 1 situation. The real issue is that it allows DKs to survive against hordes of enemies, especially in keep defense/attack. Everyone is at range and the DK can basically attack with impunity.
Blazing shield is 6 second 30% max HP dmg shield. So for a decently geared character in PVP let's say it is 1000 hp dmg shield. It does increase if surrounded by enemies upon activation but 4% of 1000 is 40, which is minimal, so you would need 8+ people around you to really make any pre-mitigation dmg shield increase in strength that means anything ... so I'm just going to ignore that for comparison sake, considering Reflective Scale does not need to be surrounded upon activation.
So just for starters, Blazing Shield lasts for 6 seconds or 1000 pre-mitigation dmg, while Reflective Scales lasts for 4 seconds regardless. While being focus fired, you will eat up that pre-mitigation 1000 dmg is half a second and start taking dmg again. Reflective Scales can sit there and take 20k dmg if properly focus fired by a zerg without a single bit of dmg to the DK. Which would you rather have in Cyrodiil ... 1000 point dmg shield that stops magicka regen, or something that blocks all ranged dmg (a vast majority of dmg being thrown around in cyrodiil) for 4 seconds?
Blazing Shield returns 53% of dmg taken to nearby enemies, which is a maximum of around 500 dmg to each enemy. The Dragon Fire Scale morph of Reflective Scale will return 135% of incoming dmg back to the attacker. So, each ranged attacker will get AT LEAST 500 dmg back for basically any ranged attack out there. In large scale fights, Reflective SCale will output much more dmg than Blazing Shield because A) blazing only hits enemies right around you which isn't always the case, and
blazing shield tops out at 500 dmg non crit. You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »I stated it before, Reflective Scale is the "Ranged" version of Blazing Shield.
one counters range, the other counters anything in melee.
@xsorusb14_ESO
Now I don't have a templar but I'm trying to compare Blazing Shield and Reflective Scale from tooltips.
Unless the tooltip is completely wrong, Blazing Shield is not at all like Reflective Scales and it leads me to believe you do not understand why Reflective Scales is OP. I have no problem with Reflective Scale in a 1 vs 1 situation. The real issue is that it allows DKs to survive against hordes of enemies, especially in keep defense/attack. Everyone is at range and the DK can basically attack with impunity.
Blazing shield is 6 second 30% max HP dmg shield. So for a decently geared character in PVP let's say it is 1000 hp dmg shield. It does increase if surrounded by enemies upon activation but 4% of 1000 is 40, which is minimal, so you would need 8+ people around you to really make any pre-mitigation dmg shield increase in strength that means anything ... so I'm just going to ignore that for comparison sake, considering Reflective Scale does not need to be surrounded upon activation.
So just for starters, Blazing Shield lasts for 6 seconds or 1000 pre-mitigation dmg, while Reflective Scales lasts for 4 seconds regardless. While being focus fired, you will eat up that pre-mitigation 1000 dmg is half a second and start taking dmg again. Reflective Scales can sit there and take 20k dmg if properly focus fired by a zerg without a single bit of dmg to the DK. Which would you rather have in Cyrodiil ... 1000 point dmg shield that stops magicka regen, or something that blocks all ranged dmg (a vast majority of dmg being thrown around in cyrodiil) for 4 seconds?
Blazing Shield returns 53% of dmg taken to nearby enemies, which is a maximum of around 500 dmg to each enemy. The Dragon Fire Scale morph of Reflective Scale will return 135% of incoming dmg back to the attacker. So, each ranged attacker will get AT LEAST 500 dmg back for basically any ranged attack out there. In large scale fights, Reflective SCale will output much more dmg than Blazing Shield because A) blazing only hits enemies right around you which isn't always the case, and blazing shield tops out at 500 dmg non crit.
Blazing Shield doesn't have a cap on the amount of people it gets the 4% from, and it absorbs basically all damage, then unloads it on anyone near ya... I've seen it crit for close to 1k damage. The Magicka Regen itself isn't that big of an issue either with things like Warlock/Pots and Restro Staff.
Trust me..You fight a Templar spamming it once..and you'll get why its comparable to Reflective Scale. Cause you'll find that you won't be able to go anywhere near the Templar... And the the second you're not near him, he's going to be using Heavy Restro to get mana back.. If you start ranging him, he'll charge you.
It also doesn't have the big ole wings that basically says.. hey, stop attacking that guy.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
cracker81✭✭✭If you get the jump on them. You solve your own problem if watch most of pvp they are in stealth.0
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SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭AsweetRoll wrote: »AsweetRoll wrote: »
So lets do some math, assuming that 25% of the ESO population picked the dragonknight class since there 4 classes, and you're saying 75% of dks are using it, that's about a 18% chance of a dragonknight having it on a hotbar. Now lets remember there are lower level dks in PvP and also not every dk PvPs. So this drops the chance of you running into a scale user ever lower, now encountering a scale user or dragonknight is a whole other chance. So it's a pretty damn low chance of you running into a scale user, while it's still a chance, it's unlikely, I would say you have about a 9% chance of running into one. Of course this can vary, this is just theoretically speaking.AsweetRoll wrote: »
Sure, i'm on the side that it's not a OP ability, just a strong one. But that's a bad example, the sorcerer in the video thought he had the jump on him, by the time fragments was in the air he used reflect. The guy may not have had addons resulting in him not realizing he was fighting a dragonknight. Everyone does have to learn at some point, and there's not a huge chance that every single dk build uses scale. I guess you could say the sorc should have gone in sneak, that's what I would have done if I were the sorc and had the jump.tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Refelctive Scales is fine. It is ignorance or plain stupidity that is the problem here. If you are NOT going to research the abilities that other classes have then you have no business in PvP.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28g9LCqNBD0
Maybe as a DK you just don't realize how often you see those wings because you don't have projectiles, but wings are now a constant sight in pvp. I wouldn't be surprised if 75%+ of DK are using them regularly.
And if your a sorc vel familar is honestly the perfect counter it absolutely wrecks ***. There is no CC immunity from it and it hits pretty hard. If you have cost reduction rigs and neck and 7/7 light in worm cult and have other gear with seducer or something you can get its cost next to nothing+ the 20% magika restore on death. The stun can be blocked but the damage can't be. Tanking out the damage from the player with a sword and shield is great. It will catch dks off guard because they think your just a pet user and don't use projectiles, but when fragments proc you use it. Keeping damage shields up is great as I mentioned before also. But never block when you have damage shields up unless its for CC immunity. Does this seem to make more sense?
No. You make no sense at all. I say 75% of DK use scale in pvp and you go on about low level players and all this other nonsense that does not factor at all into the statement that 75% of DK use scale in pvp. You really are a dimwit and I feel every time I answer one of your posts, I get dumber myself. You're so desperate to not be nerfed, I simply mention one comment on your post and you go on some long spiel about how sorc can counter DK with vol familiar.
Woah settle down. Let me explain this to you, maybe you can understand then I will teach you how to play eso and teach you some manners.
1) 1/4 classes=25% chance of encountering a dragonknight
2) You claim 75% of dks use scales (which is bs since a lot of dks are lower levels and also PvP. Also sybrane is a must have for scale users which in that case for them to be competitive they must have the vr version. VR 5-12, if they don't have this they are less effective and scales won't really help them as much.)
3) 25% x .75= 18% chance of you encountering a dragonknight who uses scales but you don't take into account lower leveles or the ones who PvE which drops the chance even lower. But we're just throwing random numbers out there ofc. I never claimed I was desperate not to be nerfed, the amount of ignorance you put into each post is a joke.. I've admitted sybrane needs a fix but it's nothing insane like you're making it out to be. Vel familiar is what gets me, don't use it and keep geting your ass smashed bud. Up to you, "Play the way you want to play" but please don't ask for nerfs if you're not willing to use the skills or advice others have given you to beat it.
Again I feel dumb for responding but if I say 75% of DK in pvp use Scales, that has already taken into account the ones that are too low of a level to use it. Also, assuming there are just as many temp/NB as DK/sorc in pvp is probably wrong as well. I'd say dk/sorc are sitting up around 30% each at least. None of this matters at all when it comes to how OP reflective scales is, but I find it humorous how your latest tactic for defending Scales is saying that it isn't all that common (which multiple people on multiple message boards have told you is false).
You keep saying to use Vol Fam but you keep calling it Vel Familiar for some reason... leading me to believe you have never used it yourself because you don't even know the name of it. Vol Fam is slow as *** and completely useless in most situations in PVP. Any situation where a fight starts where there is distance between you and the enemy is a bad time to use Vol Familiar. Trust me, I've used it for a very extended period of time in Cyrodiil. It only works when you get the stealth jump on your opponent or in dueling situations. Yes I would use it in a duel, but duels aren't what PVP is about and do you know what is insanely powerful in the most common form of PVP (tons of ranged dmg coming from multiple opponents) ???? REFLECTIVE SCALE.
If you want to teach manners you should re-read your first entries into this thread and how often you threw around the terms crying, bitching, and whining.
You're so mad.. Please calm down erock, vol familiar (happy now? Lmao) is what gets me in PvP. You just don't use the skills you have at your disposal in a fight. Vol familiar is great
1) no CC immunity after it explodes
2) It's a AoE
3) if you explode it multiple times you will wreck people, when fragments proc cast it in between.
I have caught people off guard and they still won with vol familiar. They tank hits and let it explode
You seem to spend more time asking for a nerf then actually playing pvp. Honestly, l2p. I have found plenty of sorcs that beat me and if you watch syphers streams sorcs kill him also. How? It comes down to skill and proper timing.Edited by SRIBES on July 5, 2014 6:23PM1 -
JLB✭✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Blazing Shield doesn't have a cap on the amount of people it gets the 4% from, and it absorbs basically all damage, then unloads it on anyone near ya... I've seen it crit for close to 1k damage. The Magicka Regen itself isn't that big of an issue either with things like Warlock/Pots and Restro Staff.
Trust me..You fight a Templar spamming it once..and you'll get why its comparable to Reflective Scale. Cause you'll find that you won't be able to go anywhere near the Templar... And the the second you're not near him, he's going to be using Heavy Restro to get mana back.. If you start ranging him, he'll charge you.
It also doesn't have the big ole wings that basically says.. hey, stop attacking that guy.
Blazing Shield DOESN'T increase Shield by +4% for each nearby enemy, and shield is always capped at 30% of your morale no matter what. It's always been like that since launch. I though you'd like to know.0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AsweetRoll wrote: »AsweetRoll wrote: »AsweetRoll wrote: »
So lets do some math, assuming that 25% of the ESO population picked the dragonknight class since there 4 classes, and you're saying 75% of dks are using it, that's about a 18% chance of a dragonknight having it on a hotbar. Now lets remember there are lower level dks in PvP and also not every dk PvPs. So this drops the chance of you running into a scale user ever lower, now encountering a scale user or dragonknight is a whole other chance. So it's a pretty damn low chance of you running into a scale user, while it's still a chance, it's unlikely, I would say you have about a 9% chance of running into one. Of course this can vary, this is just theoretically speaking.AsweetRoll wrote: »
Sure, i'm on the side that it's not a OP ability, just a strong one. But that's a bad example, the sorcerer in the video thought he had the jump on him, by the time fragments was in the air he used reflect. The guy may not have had addons resulting in him not realizing he was fighting a dragonknight. Everyone does have to learn at some point, and there's not a huge chance that every single dk build uses scale. I guess you could say the sorc should have gone in sneak, that's what I would have done if I were the sorc and had the jump.tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Refelctive Scales is fine. It is ignorance or plain stupidity that is the problem here. If you are NOT going to research the abilities that other classes have then you have no business in PvP.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28g9LCqNBD0
Maybe as a DK you just don't realize how often you see those wings because you don't have projectiles, but wings are now a constant sight in pvp. I wouldn't be surprised if 75%+ of DK are using them regularly.
And if your a sorc vel familar is honestly the perfect counter it absolutely wrecks ***. There is no CC immunity from it and it hits pretty hard. If you have cost reduction rigs and neck and 7/7 light in worm cult and have other gear with seducer or something you can get its cost next to nothing+ the 20% magika restore on death. The stun can be blocked but the damage can't be. Tanking out the damage from the player with a sword and shield is great. It will catch dks off guard because they think your just a pet user and don't use projectiles, but when fragments proc you use it. Keeping damage shields up is great as I mentioned before also. But never block when you have damage shields up unless its for CC immunity. Does this seem to make more sense?
No. You make no sense at all. I say 75% of DK use scale in pvp and you go on about low level players and all this other nonsense that does not factor at all into the statement that 75% of DK use scale in pvp. You really are a dimwit and I feel every time I answer one of your posts, I get dumber myself. You're so desperate to not be nerfed, I simply mention one comment on your post and you go on some long spiel about how sorc can counter DK with vol familiar.
Woah settle down. Let me explain this to you, maybe you can understand then I will teach you how to play eso and teach you some manners.
1) 1/4 classes=25% chance of encountering a dragonknight
2) You claim 75% of dks use scales (which is bs since a lot of dks are lower levels and also PvP. Also sybrane is a must have for scale users which in that case for them to be competitive they must have the vr version. VR 5-12, if they don't have this they are less effective and scales won't really help them as much.)
3) 25% x .75= 18% chance of you encountering a dragonknight who uses scales but you don't take into account lower leveles or the ones who PvE which drops the chance even lower. But we're just throwing random numbers out there ofc. I never claimed I was desperate not to be nerfed, the amount of ignorance you put into each post is a joke.. I've admitted sybrane needs a fix but it's nothing insane like you're making it out to be. Vel familiar is what gets me, don't use it and keep geting your ass smashed bud. Up to you, "Play the way you want to play" but please don't ask for nerfs if you're not willing to use the skills or advice others have given you to beat it.
Again I feel dumb for responding but if I say 75% of DK in pvp use Scales, that has already taken into account the ones that are too low of a level to use it. Also, assuming there are just as many temp/NB as DK/sorc in pvp is probably wrong as well. I'd say dk/sorc are sitting up around 30% each at least. None of this matters at all when it comes to how OP reflective scales is, but I find it humorous how your latest tactic for defending Scales is saying that it isn't all that common (which multiple people on multiple message boards have told you is false).
You keep saying to use Vol Fam but you keep calling it Vel Familiar for some reason... leading me to believe you have never used it yourself because you don't even know the name of it. Vol Fam is slow as *** and completely useless in most situations in PVP. Any situation where a fight starts where there is distance between you and the enemy is a bad time to use Vol Familiar. Trust me, I've used it for a very extended period of time in Cyrodiil. It only works when you get the stealth jump on your opponent or in dueling situations. Yes I would use it in a duel, but duels aren't what PVP is about and do you know what is insanely powerful in the most common form of PVP (tons of ranged dmg coming from multiple opponents) ???? REFLECTIVE SCALE.
If you want to teach manners you should re-read your first entries into this thread and how often you threw around the terms crying, bitching, and whining.
You're so mad.. Please calm down erock, vol familiar (happy now? Lmao) is what gets me in PvP. You just don't use the skills you have at your disposal in a fight. Vol familiar is great
1) no CC immunity after it explodes
2) It's a AoE
3) if you explode it multiple times you will wreck people, when fragments proc cast it in between.
I have caught people off guard and they still won with vol familiar. They tank hits and let it explode
You seem to spend more time asking for a nerf then actually playing pvp. Honestly, l2p. I have found plenty of sorcs that beat me and if you watch syphers streams sorcs kill him also. How? It comes down to skill and proper timing.
It is clear you have never actually pvp'd with vol familiar. Trust me, you would understand if you had. It is useless in a huge majority of cyrodiil encounters. I'm waiting on the reply post where you spew a random list of useless facts that have nothing to do with why vol familiar sucks, which is it is a stupid pet with terrible targeting and closing speed.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1