Please make Balreth/Doshia harder.

purple-magicb16_ESO · July 2014

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

These are low level bosses. Challenge is not the primary function for low level bosses. It's actually orientation for newer players who are just getting used to the movement controls and battle system(ie. Quickslotting etc.). Degree of difficulty is also a combination of knowing how to battle particular bosses (i.e. exploiting weaknesses) and sometimes your skill set (like Fighters Guild skills in battling undead/daedra). If you find these bosses too easy, move on to something harder. I suggest you try VR. Or maybe you could take your advantage down a few notches by taking off armor or not using certain skills. If you do VR bosses you may find yourself coming back to use Balreth and Doshia for punching bags.

Maybe "challenge quests" are the solution. Playing Fable (sorry-not an intended plug) they gave you the option to do a quest but make it harder by doing it without armour, without weapons etc. For extra xp and rewards. I'd go for that. I wouldn't want to see them necessarily make these bosses harder tho. I defeated them when they were really hard to fight and actually came to these forums to see what strategy people were using to beat them. Lots of tears of rage at that time. Personally, I enjoyed the challenge, but I'm sure they're not anxious to get back to that cry-fest again. Lol!

It's a fine balance. They don't want to turn away (or turn off) inexpeienced players essentially "at the door".

Soloeus · July 2014

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

These are low level bosses. Challenge is not the primary function for low level bosses. It's actually orientation for newer players who are just getting used to the movement controls and battle system(ie. Quickslotting etc.). Degree of difficulty is also a combination of knowing how to battle particular bosses (i.e. exploiting weaknesses) and sometimes your skill set (like Fighters Guild skills in battling undead/daedra). If you find these bosses too easy, move on to something harder. I suggest you try VR. Or maybe you could take your advantage down a few notches by taking off armor or not using certain skills. If you do VR bosses you may find yourself coming back to use Balreth and Doshia for punching bags.

Maybe "challenge quests" are the solution. Playing Fable (sorry-not an intended plug) they gave you the option to do a quest but make it harder by doing it without armour, without weapons etc. For extra xp and rewards. I'd go for that. I wouldn't want to see them necessarily make these bosses harder tho. I defeated them when they were harder and actually came to these forums to what strategy people were using to beat them. Lots of tears of rage at that time. Personally, I enjoyed the challenge, but I'm sure they're not anxious to get back to that cry-fest again. Lol!

Ah, Fable's Challenge Quests.

Would be cool if you could repeat a quest which is then leveled to you.

JinShepard01 · July 2014

On my second playthrough, 3 month safter my first, I noticed a huge decrease in difficulty in the 4 man dungeons to the point they were not even remotely challenging and I wondered wtf happened.. sure the bugs and things are still there but I liked to whipe a few times and then feel proud to succeed, now its so easy its not even fun because you dont even get any other rewards apart from the skillpoint.

AlexDougherty · July 2014

hk11 wrote: »

I was playing around with a sorc in AD this week and literally oneshot Doshia. The quest was grey, but even then I remember in EP Doshia was quite a battle.

Exactly there were three versions of the battle, one was ok, one was too hard, and the third was literally impossible. They should have equallised the conditions for the fight, then it would have been fairer.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · July 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

If they had redesigned the dungeons you fought her in some it was fair for all factions, then they wouldn't have had to nerf her so hard.

In the faction with the small room version .. EP I think it is .. you simply need to pull her out into the large room just before hers. Not hard, just needs a moment's thought.

That said, on release it was still way over-tuned for most players/builds to be able to do it on-level.

AlexDougherty · July 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

If they had redesigned the dungeons you fought her in some it was fair for all factions, then they wouldn't have had to nerf her so hard.

In the faction with the small room version .. EP I think it is .. you simply need to pull her out into the large room just before hers. Not hard, just needs a moment's thought.

That said, on release it was still way over-tuned for most players/builds to be able to do it on-level.

Pull her out? I wasn't a DK in that one, I was a Khajiit Templar, how does a templar pull her out???

purple-magicb16_ESO · July 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

If they had redesigned the dungeons you fought her in some it was fair for all factions, then they wouldn't have had to nerf her so hard.

In the faction with the small room version .. EP I think it is .. you simply need to pull her out into the large room just before hers. Not hard, just needs a moment's thought.

That said, on release it was still way over-tuned for most players/builds to be able to do it on-level.

Pull her out? I wasn't a DK in that one, I was a Khajiit Templar, how does a templar pull her out???

I agree. Sometimes it's not that easy to pull out. Lol!

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · July 2014

you simply need to pull her out into the large room just before hers.

I tried that in beta, and she reset once she got out in the open area. Maybe her reset distance is larger now. In any case, I think the nerf was unnecessary. It was the tiny size of the room that made her too difficult in one faction, but I guess it was too late in production to go back and change the environments.

BBSooner · July 2014

I wished the difficulty had remained the same. Bosses should push people out of their comfort zone so they can get better. Its kind of sad how 'hand-holdy' gaming had gotten. If the nes Ninja Gaiden had been released in this day of gaming it would have infinite lives and checkpoints every quarter map.

Irakandji · July 2014

I play a Sorcerer and when I did Doshia it had not yet been nerfed. I died a LOT I was 2 levels higher than Doshia at the time.

This quest forced me to sit my magical butt down and THINK ...
1) This is a fighters guild quest ..
2) My cast time is too long to take out the healing globes
3) I am ranged so how do I use this to my advantage ..
4) I am too low level to have AoE's yet so close in melee is not possible for me

Soo.... I got my sorry butt up off the stone. Trudged into town and bought a training bow, the best I could afford .. I killed some stuff with it ..

Then, I hiked up my skirt and climbed down into the dungeon gritting my teeth, I faced the creature with a fighters weapon in hand ..

With lightning speed my arrows burst her cursed healing globes, my "puppy" held her at bay, spells leapt through the air ...

I stood over her smoldering body with a wide and wicked grin .. take THAT B@$ch ..!!!!! I yelled! The sense of accomplishment was real...

I too wish they left it the same .. many people will never have that feeling of accomplishment .. and that is a loss.

PS - As a solution I wish they could put in a "god mode" button in the death screen that would allow people to progress though a quest "boss fight" they find too difficult. You press it and poof you become "stronger", if you complete the quest in this way you get completion but diminished loot and no achievement.

zhevon · July 2014

Initial Doisha was just too hard for where you were at at the time - in fact I think I had a rant thread about it. Some of areas were very badly designed for this encounter - and I swear her original version sent out far more healing spheres.

But thinking back some of my problems might not have been Doisha itself but some of the mechanisms in the game itself. The slow field that happens when you are in combat sometimes. The minilags and fps spikes so you get hit with her special attack even when you are clearly out of the red area. The limitted choices on your toolbar even so you enter this encounter you really don't have enough tools in your toolbox when this encounter occurs. I don't recall but I don't think you can respec yet when you get this quest.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · July 2014

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

If they had redesigned the dungeons you fought her in some it was fair for all factions, then they wouldn't have had to nerf her so hard.

In the faction with the small room version .. EP I think it is .. you simply need to pull her out into the large room just before hers. Not hard, just needs a moment's thought.

That said, on release it was still way over-tuned for most players/builds to be able to do it on-level.

Pull her out? I wasn't a DK in that one, I was a Khajiit Templar, how does a templar pull her out???

I agree. Sometimes it's not that easy to pull out. Lol!

DK,. wtf has a DK got to do with it?

'Pull', as in common MMO terminology for God knows how many years .. make her aggro you then run out and she follows .. aka. 'pulling the boss'.

I guess there are many here for whom ESO is their first MMO.

EinionYrth · July 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

If they had redesigned the dungeons you fought her in some it was fair for all factions, then they wouldn't have had to nerf her so hard.

In the faction with the small room version .. EP I think it is .. you simply need to pull her out into the large room just before hers. Not hard, just needs a moment's thought.

That said, on release it was still way over-tuned for most players/builds to be able to do it on-level.

Pull her out? I wasn't a DK in that one, I was a Khajiit Templar, how does a templar pull her out???

I agree. Sometimes it's not that easy to pull out. Lol!

'Pull', as in common MMO terminology for God knows how many years .. make her aggro you then run out and she follows .. aka. 'pulling the boss'.

I guess there are many here for whom ESO is their first MMO.

I think he was attempting a somewhat innuendo based witticism.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · July 2014

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

you simply need to pull her out into the large room just before hers.

I tried that in beta, and she reset once she got out in the open area.

You can't pull her all the way but I was able to get her where only one of the orbs was a pain to get to .

zhevon · July 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

In the faction with the small room version .. EP I think it is .. you simply need to pull her out into the large room just before hers. Not hard, just needs a moment's thought.

That said, on release it was still way over-tuned for most players/builds to be able to do it on-level.

I was unable to pull her out with aggro - she would be out for about a second then run back in and reheal. It was not only a small room but the cooridor into the room was seriously enclosed.

A lot of the issues with this game are due to the fact the ability to kite is significanly limitted. If the entire encounter area had been available for kiting purposes (even with the arbitrary combat slowdowns) the problem would have been much less.

dcincali · July 2014

Doshia was hard if you didn't understand the idea of running in a circle or how to kite. Sad times.. If everything is a push over, new players to mmo's don't learn the tatics needed. Ex. Kiting. However this game is one of the worst for kiting as they reset so early. I miss the days of EQ where you could run a mob across the whole zone and it wouldn't stop till either you or it was dead..

Syntse · July 2014

dcincali wrote: »

Doshia was hard if you didn't understand the idea of running in a circle or how to kite. Sad times.. If everything is a push over, new players to mmo's don't learn the tatics needed. Ex. Kiting. However this game is one of the worst for kiting as they reset so early. I miss the days of EQ where you could run a mob across the whole zone and it wouldn't stop till either you or it was dead..

Agree tactics should be learned but why below lvl 10, tactics of maybe one of the most annoying mob in the game that you will next time encounter maybe many levels after.

kieso · July 2014

I've killed this quest mob on both hard and easy versions; does it really matter? It's one mob out of millions you have to kill over the course of the overall game play and one out of thousands of harvesters...In neither scenario did i ever look back to reminisce on a doshia fight.

BBSooner · July 2014

Syntse wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

Doshia was hard if you didn't understand the idea of running in a circle or how to kite. Sad times.. If everything is a push over, new players to mmo's don't learn the tatics needed. Ex. Kiting. However this game is one of the worst for kiting as they reset so early. I miss the days of EQ where you could run a mob across the whole zone and it wouldn't stop till either you or it was dead..

Agree tactics should be learned but why below lvl 10, tactics of maybe one of the most annoying mob in the game that you will next time encounter maybe many levels after.

Why not at that level though? The tutorial is over at this point in the game, it's time for your character to make a name for themselves. My templar hit this fight after the nerf, and apparently spamming puncturing strikes interrupts her shape change with the final blow kickback. She didn't even have a chance to transform. The fight is a shell of what it used to be, not even worth mentioning anymore.

AlexDougherty · July 2014

dcincali wrote: »

Doshia was hard if you didn't understand the idea of running in a circle or how to kite. Sad times.. If everything is a push over, new players to mmo's don't learn the tatics needed. Ex. Kiting. However this game is one of the worst for kiting as they reset so early. I miss the days of EQ where you could run a mob across the whole zone and it wouldn't stop till either you or it was dead..

As I said there where three versions of the fight.

In the first one I did runn around her, it was fairly easy.
In the second one you had to zig-zag, there wasn't enough room to circle.
In the third one there was no room at all, you couldn't dodge.

First fight I was one level over, and won easily.
Second fight, I was four levels over, and won, but not easily.
Third fight, I was six levels over, and still couldn't do it, until she was nerfed.

I was surprised they nerfed her a second time, the first was enough.

purple-magicb16_ESO · July 2014

EinionYrthb16_ESO wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

If they had redesigned the dungeons you fought her in some it was fair for all factions, then they wouldn't have had to nerf her so hard.

In the faction with the small room version .. EP I think it is .. you simply need to pull her out into the large room just before hers. Not hard, just needs a moment's thought.

That said, on release it was still way over-tuned for most players/builds to be able to do it on-level.

Pull her out? I wasn't a DK in that one, I was a Khajiit Templar, how does a templar pull her out???

I agree. Sometimes it's not that easy to pull out. Lol!

'Pull', as in common MMO terminology for God knows how many years .. make her aggro you then run out and she follows .. aka. 'pulling the boss'.

I guess there are many here for whom ESO is their first MMO.

I think he was attempting a somewhat innuendo based witticism.

...maybe that was his first joke.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · July 2014

I fought both Doshia in the much too tight space and Lyris' Doppelganger in her slightly too powerful version, before their respective nerfs. Those encounters taught me to hate and fear Harvesters and only fight them with lots of preparation and clenched teeth, or with help. With that mindset, the harvesters at the end of the Fighters' Guild quest and in the final DC quest in Bangkorai seemed almost like pushovers.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · July 2014

They arent going to make it tougher, dont even try to ask.

ItsMeToo · July 2014

I hate Doshia and all harvesters. I knew what to do, but couldn't react fast enough to get all the orbs in time. I died several times no matter the tactic, skill sets, or weapons used.

I even came back every few levels to see if I could beat her, but no joy. One, three, ten levels above her, still no joy until they nerfed her.

Yes, my NB and I were wimps back then. Now just me, my NB not so much.

Having someone to team up with at times for these instance bosses would be nice.

I like to solo, but sometimes you need help.

DenverRalphy · July 2014

richard.a.ellisb16_ESO wrote: »

I play a Sorcerer and when I did Doshia it had not yet been nerfed. I died a LOT I was 2 levels higher than Doshia at the time.

This quest forced me to sit my magical butt down and THINK ...
1) This is a fighters guild quest ..
2) My cast time is too long to take out the healing globes
3) I am ranged so how do I use this to my advantage ..
4) I am too low level to have AoE's yet so close in melee is not possible for me

Soo.... I got my sorry butt up off the stone. Trudged into town and bought a training bow, the best I could afford .. I killed some stuff with it ..

Then, I hiked up my skirt and climbed down into the dungeon gritting my teeth, I faced the creature with a fighters weapon in hand ..

With lightning speed my arrows burst her cursed healing globes, my "puppy" held her at bay, spells leapt through the air ...

I stood over her smoldering body with a wide and wicked grin .. take THAT B@$ch ..!!!!! I yelled! The sense of accomplishment was real...

I too wish they left it the same .. many people will never have that feeling of accomplishment .. and that is a loss.

PS - As a solution I wish they could put in a "god mode" button in the death screen that would allow people to progress though a quest "boss fight" they find too difficult. You press it and poof you become "stronger", if you complete the quest in this way you get completion but diminished loot and no achievement.

Or you could have just used a resto or lightning staff. Those have a quick light attack that pop the Harvests/Globes easy peasy.

AKSb16_ESO2 · July 2014

I totally agree.
Doshia now is dead before calling the first bubbles...
And Balreth is dead after only one stun...

Pupsy · July 2014

I killed her in four moves. One puncture, one dragonknight ult, two normal light attacks. Dead. her dialouge got cut off she died so quick. GG Doshia. Sucks to suck. She should have rolled a dragonknight like me.

DenverRalphy · July 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

IMHO, while most players probably wouldn't admit it, I'd bet dollars to donuts that if there were a significant item/gear reward for beating each of them, then there would probably have been substantially less grumbling about the difficulty.

Nope, the problem wasn't that she was hard, it was that she was too hard for the level. With added difficulty if you had the wrong faction, where you were fighting her in a eight foot by six room, try dodging ther electric zombie arms then, let alone stopping the orbs that regenerated her.

People would still have complained, especially if they had outlevelled any decent reward.

As I said it was a combination of too hard for some class combined with different rooms for the fight, you might overcome one within a suitable level but not both.

If they had redesigned the dungeons you fought her in some it was fair for all factions, then they wouldn't have had to nerf her so hard.

Nah, that's a lot of hyperbole. I was able to control and manage the fight in all three factions, and I would by no means make any claim to being anything close to an elite player. There's only one thing to consider in the fight (regardless the class or which faction dungeon you're in)... and that's fight her with a ranged weapon, even if you're not trained or skilled up with the weapon. A bow/resto-staff/lightning-staff/ranged-spells all pop those harvests/globes like soap bubbles, and they heal you every bit as dramatically as they heal Doshia. They heal you enough that even pre-nerf you didn't need to worry about your class' own healing abilities keeping you alive. When those zombie arms hit you, you've got harvests coming right after to heal you back up, which are easy to snag with a ranged weapon.

Nicky_W · July 2014

I remember Gutsripper and Doshia during the beta and wow were they tough fights, but at the same time I felt like I had accomplished something.

I just this second beat Doshia on my level 9 Sorcerer and she is a joke.
She didn't even have time to transform into a harvester.
According to the 'Recount' add-on I was in combat for a total of 5 seconds.

Mescalamba · July 2014

Doshia was bit harder, but I needed only lvl 10 to beat her. Given what I know now, I could take her even at lower.

But then, I have my assortment of werewolves and vampires, which were turned all between lvl 14 and 18 max (vampires are easy, werewolves bit less.. but its challenge to make it at lvl 16).

Otherwise fully agree, Doshia is now joke and Balreth.. well I didnt find him dangerous even in beta. Now he was just really pathetic.

Some bosses (like Cave of Memories, if thats still valid) have very nice difficulty (I guess maybe even comparable with VR). But some are just poor.

They also nerfed Kwama elites near Stonefalls, disappointing really.