Please make Balreth/Doshia harder.

Soloeus · July 2014

These bosses along with a few others were really hard. I struggled and they beat me up left and right. I had to get 5 more levels to beat them. And it was an epic battle that raged to the bitter end.

Until you turned Balreth into a My Little Pony and Doshia into Rainbow Brite.

Please turn their difficulty in the EP zone up. This change might not be desired in Vet Zones, I don't know how those fights are for the other factions but for our faction its a big whopping disappointment.

AlexDougherty · July 2014

They nerfed them for a reason, with several classes you had to be more than five levels higher and with Doshia it also varied by faction. Having played all the faction versions of Doshia, I can tell you they needed to do something.

Now if you have to be so high you don't get any experience from beating a foe, then something is wrong. I don't mind levelling up a few times, I've done it, but if the quest greys out, it needs fixing.

Now if you want to fight a hard version of them, then suggest to the devs a hard mode version somewhere in cold harbour.

Soloeus · July 2014

1. Sorcerer was one of those classes. The abilities you needed to win didn't unlock early enough so you had to wait a bit. However the battles were epic.

2. I agree and have had many battles where I couldn't beat the enemy until I was unable to get exp/loot.

3. I just want the "lower level" version of these battles to be harder because they are designed for low level difficulty. Why else would they give a boss "Press E for Stun" unless they wanted there to be a "way to overcome" this?

I really enjoyed those hard bosses at levels 1-20. I wish there were more of them. Not hard because they are Harvesters or Wispmothers in a tight space or because of Light Attacks with a distance of 20m and no animation. Not because they are immune to everything I can do (Storm Atronach/Gargoyle). I want them to be hard because the "way to win" is difficult.

I hope this improves over time. Some vet bosses are so hard, let alone trash mobs. Then you compare to the experience of a trash mob 3 vet levels below yourself to the experience of a boss at your own level in "normal zones".

As for a "hard mode" for lower level? I would do it.

MongooseOne · July 2014

Oddly enough I just battled Doshia for first time on an alt since her change, I have to admit with original poster, she was a huge disappointment.

mad.ferretb16_ESO · July 2014

Doshia I would say was too hard initially, Balreth however was a wuss and I presume an even bigger one now.

That being said I do enjoy the odd 'impossible boss' it just gives me something to have a go at.

Weberda · July 2014

My V6 sorc just did the Balreth quest last week. I was prepared for a slugfest. The big idiot just stood by the lava while my character blasted away at him. I had more trouble with the scamps.

AlexDougherty · July 2014

mad.ferretb16_ESO wrote: »

Doshia I would say was too hard initially, Balreth however was a wuss and I presume an even bigger one now.

That being said I do enjoy the odd 'impossible boss' it just gives me something to have a go at.

I enjoy a tough boss too, but I want some experience for beating them.

The main problem with Doshia wasn't actually Doshia, it was that the room you were in limited your options. In one faction you had tons of room to move about and could get the orbs so she couldn't regenerate, in another the room was half the size, which made getting the orbs much harder, and in the final faction the room was so small you couldn't dodge, or even see the orbs.

Personally I would have made all the rooms the same size, and maybe given Doshia a slight nerf, but left her tough. They just nerfed her until all three factions could beat her.

Another problem was she was a main boss, you couldn't skip her and continue, impossible bosses should never hinder a major quest line like that. Now if the made the really difficult bosses into world bosses, ie optional then the protests would be much smaller. I still remember being killed by Trapjaw on Tattooine, did I mind, not really, it was a one-sided fight though.

daemonios · July 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

1. Sorcerer was one of those classes. The abilities you needed to win didn't unlock early enough so you had to wait a bit. However the battles were epic.

I beat Doshia with my low level sorc back in beta and you definitely had all the skills you needed. Crystal shards for damage (available at level 1), regular weapon attack for sustained damage while recovering mana, and Wall of Elements for AoE, useful for taking care of those orbs, preventing Doshia from healing while healing yourself (available at level 4).

Yes, it was a long battle, but most of the time was spent learning the mechanics of this boss. I think it was my very first boss fight in ESO and I had a blast beating her.

Rather than nerfed bosses, I'd like to see them allow groups in main and guild quests. When you nerf a boss, you change it for everyone (ruining the fun for some). Allowing groups wouldn't change it except for whoever wants to do it in a group.

EinionYrth · July 2014

Since it's instanced anyway why not allow differing levels of difficulty?
Uber epeen
Normal
Wimp.

edwar368 · July 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Snip ........
Another problem was she was a main boss, you couldn't skip her and continue, impossible bosses should never hinder a major quest line like that. Now if the made the really difficult bosses into world bosses, ie optional then the protests would be much smaller. I still remember being killed by Trapjaw on Tattooine, did I mind, not really, it was a one-sided fight though.

This.
Not every one is good at games, and whilst it may therefore be fair to stop these people getting the uber rewards, it should NOT gate progression into other areas and allow them to at least attempt/sample the content. The general structure of a lot of the content seems to be "hourglass" shaped. i.e.
You start off in an area level 1 - 10 with say 40 or 50 quests, which you can skip or not and may be of varying difficulty, but then you hit the bottle neck of having to complete a single quest against a hard mob, to progress to the next level 11 - 20 area with another 40 or 50 quests. This structure is just wrong, if said person wants to progress into the level 10 - 20 zone and dies at lot, that's their choice, but stopping them from even experiencing the content because they cant complete one gating quest is wrong

Soloeus · July 2014

daemonios wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

1. Sorcerer was one of those classes. The abilities you needed to win didn't unlock early enough so you had to wait a bit. However the battles were epic.

I beat Doshia with my low level sorc back in beta and you definitely had all the skills you needed. Crystal shards for damage (available at level 1), regular weapon attack for sustained damage while recovering mana, and Wall of Elements for AoE, useful for taking care of those orbs, preventing Doshia from healing while healing yourself (available at level 4).

Yes, it was a long battle, but most of the time was spent learning the mechanics of this boss. I think it was my very first boss fight in ESO and I had a blast beating her.

Rather than nerfed bosses, I'd like to see them allow groups in main and guild quests. When you nerf a boss, you change it for everyone (ruining the fun for some). Allowing groups wouldn't change it except for whoever wants to do it in a group.

Pardon me for not being a L337 pro gaming athlete, sir.

I had no such luck. But we do agree about something; back in Beta we were all crying "LFG BALRETH" and "LFG GUTSRIPPER" only to learn you can't.

I would rather have the option to bring a friend and toughen the boss up a bit per person there, than have a boss become an empty experience that is less hard than the trash mobs right outside the boss room.

Mordria · July 2014

The whiners won. Again. Doshia, which use to be really challenging, is now a complete joke. The first time I beat her, before they sent her to candy mountain, I felt accomplished after the fight. I remember thinking "Wow, I can't believe I just beat that. That was crazy".

EinionYrth · July 2014

Mordria wrote: »

The whiners won. Again. Doshia, which use to be really challenging, is now a complete joke. The first time I beat her, before they sent her to candy mountain, I felt accomplished after the fight. I remember thinking "Wow, I can't believe I just beat that. That was crazy".

I can see both points of view to some extent. The first time I came up against her on my NB alt I got my arse handed to me time and time again such that in the end I actually rage quit, which isn't like me at all. Went of and leaned to play the class/build and thought I'd go back and have another go. I looked at her funny and she dropped dead, she must have been in harvester form for about 5 seconds before she just keeled over, madness, I knew i hadn't got THAT much better.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO · July 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

1. Sorcerer was one of those classes. The abilities you needed to win didn't unlock early enough so you had to wait a bit. However the battles were epic.

2. I agree and have had many battles where I couldn't beat the enemy until I was unable to get exp/loot.

3. I just want the "lower level" version of these battles to be harder because they are designed for low level difficulty. Why else would they give a boss "Press E for Stun" unless they wanted there to be a "way to overcome" this?

I really enjoyed those hard bosses at levels 1-20. I wish there were more of them. Not hard because they are Harvesters or Wispmothers in a tight space or because of Light Attacks with a distance of 20m and no animation. Not because they are immune to everything I can do (Storm Atronach/Gargoyle). I want them to be hard because the "way to win" is difficult.

I hope this improves over time. Some vet bosses are so hard, let alone trash mobs. Then you compare to the experience of a trash mob 3 vet levels below yourself to the experience of a boss at your own level in "normal zones".

As for a "hard mode" for lower level? I would do it.

this this all of this, doshia is actually what convinced me to keep the game after beta, a boss with a difficult but rewarding win mechanic, dodge the black winters, kill the feasts, heal to full slowly wittle her down. I had so much fun with it, now I still have a bunch of fun with most of the fights, but the win mechanics are more down to pulling off a good rotation, which is far less satisfying.

daemonios · July 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

1. Sorcerer was one of those classes. The abilities you needed to win didn't unlock early enough so you had to wait a bit. However the battles were epic.

I beat Doshia with my low level sorc back in beta and you definitely had all the skills you needed. Crystal shards for damage (available at level 1), regular weapon attack for sustained damage while recovering mana, and Wall of Elements for AoE, useful for taking care of those orbs, preventing Doshia from healing while healing yourself (available at level 4).

Yes, it was a long battle, but most of the time was spent learning the mechanics of this boss. I think it was my very first boss fight in ESO and I had a blast beating her.

Rather than nerfed bosses, I'd like to see them allow groups in main and guild quests. When you nerf a boss, you change it for everyone (ruining the fun for some). Allowing groups wouldn't change it except for whoever wants to do it in a group.

Pardon me for not being a L337 pro gaming athlete, sir.

I had no such luck. But we do agree about something; back in Beta we were all crying "LFG BALRETH" and "LFG GUTSRIPPER" only to learn you can't.

I would rather have the option to bring a friend and toughen the boss up a bit per person there, than have a boss become an empty experience that is less hard than the trash mobs right outside the boss room.

I can live without your sarcasm. I didn't mean to brag, I was just retelling my experience. I'm far from a top player, but I do recognize that others may not have the skills or invest the time in the game to perfect them so as to do these solo quests. That's why I'd live perfectly fine with the ability to group up for main/guild quests. That way you don't take anything away from anyone.

Why is it legitimate to beg for boss nerfs, but the minute someone comes in and says "I did boss x alone and I'd like to continue to meet tough solo challenges, but feel free to allow groups for solo quests", they have to be labelled as l33t braggarts?

[EDIT]By the way, I only told about my experience because YOU categorically stated that sorcerers lacked the in-game skills to do the battle at level.

ebondeath · July 2014

I fought Doshia for the first time at level 9 on my nightblade and died probably upwards of 20 times. The difficulty was frustrating, but manageable once I finally figured out Harvester mechanics and that I needed an aoe. She needed a slight nerf, but not what they gave her.

Honestly, doing this as DC, more frustrating than the fight was the distance back to town to repair and buy soulgems.

Soloeus · July 2014

You are offering a false attribution. I didn't say you are a l33t braggart for the reason that you said you did boss x alone and want to continue to meet tough solo challenges.

I said you are being a l337 braggart because of your snob tone in telling how "easy" it was.

It was, as you called it, "a blast" despite being hard. I didn't want it "easy."

Maybe it wasn't even "HARD" but balanced correctly for a boss of that level. Designed to challenge you and push you but be defeated with the right set of skills and skill.

Knowing everything I know now if I went back in time with the same character, I probably win with little effort. But it would still be a hard battle where I can't make any mistakes.

I didn't even mind having to outlevel the boss to fight it, back when I could still get the exp and loot from it.

DenverRalphy · July 2014

I really miss the challenge of the pre-nerf of solo bosses. Despite what many claim, it didn't require the player to be highly skilled. It only just took a few moments of thought and planning, regardless which class or faction you were playing. And should a player choose not to put forth the effort to plan for and execute tactics to successfully take them down, they could simply choose to come back to it after leveling up a bit more. The solo bosses were in no way game stoppers.

IMHO, while most players probably wouldn't admit it, I'd bet dollars to donuts that if there were a significant item/gear reward for beating each of them, then there would probably have been substantially less grumbling about the difficulty.

Soloeus · July 2014

Good point, players who went through the bosses didn't feel rewarded; they simply felt like "okay, um... next?". ESO is famously bad for all stick no carrot but that is a different thread for a different day. The carrots do come in time but there are people lose interest and quit before having them.

Besides, "Hard Balreth" would have been fun to do with a friend.

mad.ferretb16_ESO · July 2014

ebondeath wrote: »

I fought Doshia for the first time at level 9 on my nightblade and died probably upwards of 20 times. The difficulty was frustrating, but manageable once I finally figured out Harvester mechanics and that I needed an aoe. She needed a slight nerf, but not what they gave her.

Honestly, doing this as DC, more frustrating than the fight was the distance back to town to repair and buy soulgems.

Actually as an NB the aoe was the bit that tripped me up. I eventually opted for a 2H which allowed me a bit more leeway.

If I'd made the balancing decision I'd have had more balls giving less heal. Giving you the option not to have to hit everyone to stand a chance.

It was fun, frustrating but fun. It was also in DC, so that maybe made a difference too.

daemonios · July 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

You are offering a false attribution. I didn't say you are a l33t braggart for the reason that you said you did boss x alone and want to continue to meet tough solo challenges.

I said you are being a l337 braggart because of your snob tone in telling how "easy" it was.

Tell me where I said it was easy. It wasn't. I died a bunch of times. I stand by my former replies: sorcs COULD do it at level; and your sarcasm was uncalled for and didn't contribute to the actual discussion.

End of argument, if this is even one. I seem to be doing nothing other than replying to personal attacks.

Syntse · July 2014

Think Doshia was bit too much for the lvl it was introduced in and needed some nerfing so that people would not quit the game immediately as it seemed too hard. Have to agree though that it was nerfed maybe bit too much.

Maybe it was also strange choice of enemy to introduce at such early stage. Maybe just Lyris Dobbel would have been enough to introduce the harvesters and about appropriate level too.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO · July 2014

Doshia is joke. She killed me many times in beta. I killer here on a firt try on release, but only because I knew what to do. It was long fight and fun!

Then I tried NB after nerf. And lol.. Stealth, heavy attack, that six hits from dual weild and assassination finisher and she was gone. She actualy did not even turn into harvester as she did not wake from first stun.

theyancey · July 2014

Initially those boss fights were just not level appropriate. The majority of players could not defeat them on level, much less a few levels under. Most had to out level the bosses entirely ending up with no XP and useless loot. If this had been just some random dungeon encounter it may have been OK. Those blocked all progress in the entire quest line however.

There were many threads about it here. Most echoed that there was little incentive to play a game that defeated them to this degree. I agree with them. The same goes for all of these major boss fights that are solo only. There has to be a path to victory and quest advancement for all players that provides some sort of reward. Sure advanced players may get bonuses for soloing the quest 5 levels below but the average player needs to be able to have fun as well.

The easy solution, and the one ZOS implemented at the time was to institute balance b nerfing the mobs to a degree. Another approach that will take more coding would be to allow the solo player to bring a helper with him/her to complete the quest.

The above was my serious reply. I do not think that the OP is serious though. Just trolling while the servers are down. LOL.

Vuron · July 2014

Doshia, Gutsripper, Balreth, and Mannimarco have been nerfed, at least, 4-5 times since I started testing.

The problem with these encounters is that most people aren't prepared when they reach them. Up until these encounters, most fights can be won by just button mashing regardless of what skills you have slotted. These are the first fights that you need to actually figure out the mechanics and come up with a strategy.

I was always on the side of letting people get help instead of nerfing the fights into the ground.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · July 2014

theyancey wrote: »

The easy solution, and the one ZOS implemented at the time was to institute balance b nerfing the mobs to a degree.

By saying "at the time" you seem not to realise it's been nerfed again, and now she often doesn't even make it to Harvester form, even on-level it would seem: it's also amusing for Silver Bullet to proc and one-shot her before she changes form as well.

Kaynlor · July 2014

Weberda wrote: »

My V6 sorc just did the Balreth quest last week. I was prepared for a slugfest. The big idiot just stood by the lava while my character blasted away at him. I had more trouble with the scamps.

Mine did that, too. I went ahead and bugged it.

hk11 · July 2014

I was playing around with a sorc in AD this week and literally oneshot Doshia. The quest was grey, but even then I remember in EP Doshia was quite a battle.

purple-magicb16_ESO · July 2014

These are low level bosses. Challenge is not the primary function for low level bosses. It's actually orientation for newer players who are just getting used to the movement controls and battle system(ie. Quickslotting etc.). Degree of difficulty is also a combination of knowing how to battle particular bosses (i.e. exploiting weaknesses) and sometimes your skill set (like Fighters Guild skills in battling undead/daedra). If you find these bosses too easy, move on to something harder. I suggest you try VR. Or maybe you could take your advantage down a few notches by taking off armor or not using certain skills. If you do VR bosses you may find yourself coming back to use Balreth and Doshia for punching bags.

Mordria · July 2014

Vuron wrote: »

Doshia, Gutsripper, Balreth, and Mannimarco have been nerfed, at least, 4-5 times since I started testing.

The problem with these encounters is that most people aren't prepared when they reach them. Up until these encounters, most fights can be won by just button mashing regardless of what skills you have slotted. These are the first fights that you need to actually figure out the mechanics and come up with a strategy.

Yep, and instead of making them weaker they could have just lessened the damage they did to give some of the players that were having trouble with them more time to fight them. Also, for the Doshia fight, they could have had Merrick screaming - Get the orbs! Get the Orbs! They heal her! Or something along those lines to give them a clue while keeping it immersive.

AlexDougherty · July 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

IMHO, while most players probably wouldn't admit it, I'd bet dollars to donuts that if there were a significant item/gear reward for beating each of them, then there would probably have been substantially less grumbling about the difficulty.

Nope, the problem wasn't that she was hard, it was that she was too hard for the level. With added difficulty if you had the wrong faction, where you were fighting her in a eight foot by six room, try dodging ther electric zombie arms then, let alone stopping the orbs that regenerated her.

People would still have complained, especially if they had outlevelled any decent reward.

As I said it was a combination of too hard for some class combined with different rooms for the fight, you might overcome one within a suitable level but not both.

If they had redesigned the dungeons you fought her in some it was fair for all factions, then they wouldn't have had to nerf her so hard.