PERFECT example of how VR zones are flawed and why people are leaving.
Alphashado
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VR8 Shrine of the Black Maw. This is a solo dungeon. Not a public dungeon with mobs of 5+, or an instanced group dungeon designed for a group. This dungeon is designed for solo play.
Yet the very first thing you come across is an elite Gargoyle with 14677 health, hits like a Mac truck, and is immune to all forms of CC.
You have 3 options here.
1. Fight it (pretty much impossible)
2. Die and spirit run past it (pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
3. Run past it in hopes that you can survive long enough to reset it without gaining threat from every other mob in the dungeon along the way. (usually pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
But the issue is this: Why is this thing even here? Why would you design a solo dungeon then park a ridiculously powerful monster at the entrance?
Design decisions like this just don't make any practical sense. It just leads to frustration. This is just one example of many.
Yet the very first thing you come across is an elite Gargoyle with 14677 health, hits like a Mac truck, and is immune to all forms of CC.
You have 3 options here.
1. Fight it (pretty much impossible)
2. Die and spirit run past it (pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
3. Run past it in hopes that you can survive long enough to reset it without gaining threat from every other mob in the dungeon along the way. (usually pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
But the issue is this: Why is this thing even here? Why would you design a solo dungeon then park a ridiculously powerful monster at the entrance?
Design decisions like this just don't make any practical sense. It just leads to frustration. This is just one example of many.
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Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭OH GOD i only have to see the picture to know exactly where that is and what you are talking about, fortunately those things are slow, just take a few soul; gems and this place was easy, there are only 3 gargoyles in there, and you can avoid them all this way9 -
Razour✭✭✭Option 4: use invisibility pots to get past
Option 5: sneak/stealth past (I've put this last because not everyone has this option depending on class/skills)╔══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗⋆ ℛ ⋆ α ⋆ ӡ ⋆ ѻ ⋆ υ ⋆ г ⋆╠══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╣Bosmer NightbladeClothier 50 | Wood Worker 50 | Black Smith 50 | Provisioner 50 | Alchemist 50 | Enchanter 50^^^ Now Recruiting ^^^╚══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝12 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sneak?Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.6 -
arena25✭✭✭✭✭My suggestion: Submit a ticket and say "Elite boss and a solo dungeon? Is this a design issue?"If you can't handle the heat...stay out of the kitchen!10 -
Evergnar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some good advice but having to sneak past everything doesn't sound like a lot of fun.10 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some good advice but having to sneak past everything doesn't sound like a lot of fun.
Not really, unless that's your thing. Just trying to help out someone get past a difficult situation, not really the best, but it is what I have the power to do.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
Razour✭✭✭
Many people who rolled NB's would disagree with that statementSome good advice but having to sneak past everything doesn't sound like a lot of fun.
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Anilahation✭✭✭✭✭Nah I killed it... lol. .. I'm sure you fight many cc immune foes before VR5... you think you would learn your (they can't be CCd bar by now)
(Fighting a cc immune mob, still has cc on his bar, laugh out loud)Edited by Anilahation on July 1, 2014 3:57PM9 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Im not trying to derail this thread but i had a really hard time trying to solo Gargoyles in normal content that cant be CCed. So to me, it seems like it might more be an issues with Gargoyles then with Vet content.
But i haven't run into any Gargoyles in Vet content yet, so maybe i have no idea what i am talking about. Wouldn't be the first time!Edited by vyndral13preub18_ESO on July 1, 2014 3:58PM7 -
ebondeath✭✭✭✭✭I remember him, I shadow cloaked around him. I think there were one or two more that I had to stealth squeeze around in tight hallways as well.
Yeah, I have no idea what I would have done if I weren't on a NB.╔═════════════⌈Alannah Corvaine⌋══════════════╗
Rise, rise! To freedom, rise! Arise, ye Breton sons and daughters.
Ride, ride! To freedom, ride! Truth and glory to the brave!
╚═════════════⌊VR 12 Breton NB⌉══════════════╝1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fairydragon3 wrote: »OH GOD i only have to see the picture to know exactly where that is and what you are talking about, fortunately those things are slow, just take a few soul; gems and this place was easy, there are only 3 gargoyles in there, and you can avoid them all this way
Aye, there were 3 of them. I was able to finish the dungeon, get the achievement and the skyshard. like you said, its just a matter of how many soul gems you want to use. The point isn't that it can't be done, the point is that it just doesn't make any sense.
It's like some of the designers on cloud ZoS are maniacal masochists that say to themselves.."Ok this solo dungeon is clearly too soloable, so imma put a godlike monster here, here, and oooh, here!"
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Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭Easiest way to beat vet gargoyles is medium armor + bow (preferably NB with siphoning to sustain stamina). This setup allows you to keep kiting the gargoyle around and wear him down.1
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Razour✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »You have 3 options here.
1. Fight it (pretty much impossible)
2. Die and spirit run past it (pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
3. Run past it in hopes that you can survive long enough to reset it without gaining threat from every other mob in the dungeon along the way. (usually pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)Alphashado wrote: »I was able to finish the dungeon, get the achievement and the skyshard.
So, just out of interest, which of the 3 options did you chose to beat the cunning puzzle that ZOS set you?
I guess it was 2 or 3 based on:Alphashado wrote: »its just a matter of how many soul gems you want to use.
Either way I don't see any great problem with ZOS setting things up so that the players have to think their way through problems taking into account the different strengths and weaknesses of their toon and the resources available to them.
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »You have 3 options here.
1. Fight it (pretty much impossible)
2. Die and spirit run past it (pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
3. Run past it in hopes that you can survive long enough to reset it without gaining threat from every other mob in the dungeon along the way. (usually pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)Alphashado wrote: »I was able to finish the dungeon, get the achievement and the skyshard.
So, just out of interest, which of the 3 options did you chose to beat the cunning puzzle that ZOS set you?
I guess it was 2 or 3 based on:Alphashado wrote: »its just a matter of how many soul gems you want to use.
Either way I don't see any great problem with ZOS setting things up so that the players have to think their way through problems taking into account the different strengths and weaknesses of their toon and the resources available to them.
You really consider willingly dieing and ghost walking past the mob to be an acceptable example of "thinking your way through a problem"?
Really?
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LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭I for one love fighting gargoyles, though if you're not a tank build I can see them easily being a problem.NerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/163 -
rusila22✭✭✭Guys Welcome to the club
Rusila CP :600
Title : Monster Hunter
Currently : Beta Tester in Morrowind0 -
Heraclea✭✭✭I just cleared a Rivenspire dungeon where every spawn was a troll. I can imagine that's unplayable at a veteran version.Hircine loves me, this I know,
Your intestines told me so.
Quæ tam fera immanisque natura? - Cicero8 -
Malpherian✭✭✭✭✭I thought you all knew...... Sheogorath is the Lead Developer.... Insanity and Madness is what you should come to expect.20 -
Razour✭✭✭
Nope. That was your choice.Alphashado wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »You have 3 options here.
1. Fight it (pretty much impossible)
2. Die and spirit run past it (pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
3. Run past it in hopes that you can survive long enough to reset it without gaining threat from every other mob in the dungeon along the way. (usually pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)Alphashado wrote: »I was able to finish the dungeon, get the achievement and the skyshard.
So, just out of interest, which of the 3 options did you chose to beat the cunning puzzle that ZOS set you?
I guess it was 2 or 3 based on:Alphashado wrote: »its just a matter of how many soul gems you want to use.
Either way I don't see any great problem with ZOS setting things up so that the players have to think their way through problems taking into account the different strengths and weaknesses of their toon and the resources available to them.
You really consider willingly dieing and ghost walking past the mob to be an acceptable example of "thinking your way through a problem"?
Really?
Being a NB I sneaked past. Assuming that you're not a NB then you could still have sneaked past by using an invisibility potion.
Others would have killed it.
Others might have grouped up.
All viable options.
EDIT: another option that I've used in some circumstances is to wait for someone else to get aggro on a mob and then either jump in on the fight or just sneak around it.
Edited by Razour on July 1, 2014 4:22PM╔══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗⋆ ℛ ⋆ α ⋆ ӡ ⋆ ѻ ⋆ υ ⋆ г ⋆╠══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╣Bosmer NightbladeClothier 50 | Wood Worker 50 | Black Smith 50 | Provisioner 50 | Alchemist 50 | Enchanter 50^^^ Now Recruiting ^^^╚══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝5 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
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Nope. That was your choice.Alphashado wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »You have 3 options here.
1. Fight it (pretty much impossible)
2. Die and spirit run past it (pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
3. Run past it in hopes that you can survive long enough to reset it without gaining threat from every other mob in the dungeon along the way. (usually pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)Alphashado wrote: »I was able to finish the dungeon, get the achievement and the skyshard.
So, just out of interest, which of the 3 options did you chose to beat the cunning puzzle that ZOS set you?
I guess it was 2 or 3 based on:Alphashado wrote: »its just a matter of how many soul gems you want to use.
Either way I don't see any great problem with ZOS setting things up so that the players have to think their way through problems taking into account the different strengths and weaknesses of their toon and the resources available to them.
You really consider willingly dieing and ghost walking past the mob to be an acceptable example of "thinking your way through a problem"?
Really?
Being a NB I sneaked past. Assuming that you're not a NB then you could still have sneaked past by using an invisibility potion.
Others would have killed it.
Others might have grouped up.
All viable options.
EDIT: another option that I've used in some circumstances is to wait for someone else to get aggro on a mob and then either jump in on the fight or just sneak around it.
I believe you are missing the point. There is no logical reason why this mob is here.
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Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I solod threw there a few days ago on my DW NB. I fought all 3 and while they were very tough and challenging i beat them all. The key is to make sure you block. When they do the area attack that is you chance to get beside them and unload damage. For me my strife skill kept feeding me life the whole fight.
VET content is suppose to be challenging and it is.5 -
AreoHotah✭✭✭✭
i dont know how you play your nightblade but i sneak to kill not sneak to run away lol...
Hota'h, Dual-wield/bow full medium armor NB Khajiit from day 1.
https://imageshack.com/i/p2rF313Qj/b]2 -
VagabondAngel✭✭✭✭I suppose it's an attempt to have at least something in a dungeon that can't be one-hit killed by a sorceror or a DK/light armour/staff-wielder.
Kite it with a bow is the preferred solution with anything like this but if that ever becomes fun, something horrible must have happened.
"You're thinking, did he fire 3,784 shots or 3,785? Now to tell you the truth, I fell asleep in all this excitement..."~ Níamh ~
~ Ebonheart Pact ~
~ SatGNU - PC - EU ~2 -
Razour✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »I believe you are missing the point. There is no logical reason why this mob is here.
The logical reason to have that mob there is to make the dungeon a challenge; to make people think a little about how to deal with it.
You found a strategy to deal with it - you solved the puzzle - you're not happy with how you did it but nevertheless you got the achievement and the shard.
Others used other strategies - that was the point of having the mob there.
Nothing more to say.
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stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭You really consider willingly dieing and ghost walking past the mob to be an acceptable example of "thinking your way through a problem"?
Really?
Not only is it thinking, it is thinking outside the box. Thinking outside the plane of existence, even. I have grabbed a few skyshards in VR dungeons like this. If you strip naked you only have to spend the soul gem, no repairs required. This is not how I want to play the game, but it is how the game forces me to do it if I want to do some of the supposedly "solo" content by myself and not find a pug or wait for one or two other people to show up. (Waiting for help can take a very long time in VR zones at the moment.)
I am half expecting the "ghost walk" to be called an "exploit" and being removed from the game as an option for bypassing tough enemies. You certainly don't learn to play their game from using it. You learn to avoid playing their game.
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Razour✭✭✭
Both - pick your fights; pick where to fight; and if it isn't going so well...
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Mortosk✭✭✭✭You are supposed to smother the gargoyle with love. It just wants a hug, like the domesticated trolls you sometimes run into in other dungeons. An Orc once told me it was so. Run up to it and hug it and L2P.Edited by Mortosk on July 2, 2014 2:14AM"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)4
![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\"){kind=small}