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I see the real issue with NB's now
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PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
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It would be objectively better. That build would die less and kill faster for any player with the stamina points divided between health and magicka.Can't offer bow advice, but as a dual dagger NB i have no problems. My attribute spread is 1magicka and 1 stamina for every 2 health (so at level 50 that's 12 mag, 25 hp, 12 sta). Armor (medium) has magicka enchants up to magicka pool cap, then rest hp enchants. I use magicka skills only. Stamina goes to blocks/dodges.
concealed weapon/dark cloak/piercing mark/impale/ambush
Your build would actually be much better if you didn't have any points in stamina.
Better for who?
If its working for him who's to judge?
ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)1 -
The recent changes to some bow abilities have made the line better. I can 3 -4 shot almost any mob I come across with my bow by doing the following: Stealth, -> Piercing Mark -> Focused Aim X2 -> Magnum shot or Poison Arrow.
Piercing Mark + Focused Aim will net you 1100+ in crit damage and almost always be a stun if done from stealth.
My wife plays a Dragon Knight and I play my NB as a 7 Medium crit damage build. My wife actually complains about the fact that she doesn't get to do much unless we are attacked by large groups because I kill them too quickly.
There are some tweaks that need to be made, and bows still are not working with Weapon Speed increases (regardless of what the patch says).2 -
Targanwolf✭✭✭My issues with my current NB is sustaining with multiple targets. I Bow/DW. I am ok with three targets and depending on the range .
With range...Mark target---Focus Aim--Focus Aim --Swallow Soul = 1 dead.
switch to DW then Blood Craze spammed throw in some Swallow Soul=2 more dead.
If I start with mele
Surprise Attack( always from behind)= 1 kill(often with 1 blow) follow with
Blood Craze(spam it on the other 2 targets)...throw in some Swallow Soul= 2 more dead
I'm experimenting with some an occasional Shadowy Disguise in my mele mix to see how well it disrupts the npc's reaction(so far the results are promising)
this is all pve fighting
AVA.....As a VR 1 Focus Aim only atm. I'll add Mark Target in static fighting situations. I solo mainly atm
I always use crafted set medium armor( I craft all my armors ).My stealth is outstanding.
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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It would be objectively better. That build would die less and kill faster for any player with the stamina points divided between health and magicka.Can't offer bow advice, but as a dual dagger NB i have no problems. My attribute spread is 1magicka and 1 stamina for every 2 health (so at level 50 that's 12 mag, 25 hp, 12 sta). Armor (medium) has magicka enchants up to magicka pool cap, then rest hp enchants. I use magicka skills only. Stamina goes to blocks/dodges.
concealed weapon/dark cloak/piercing mark/impale/ambush
Your build would actually be much better if you didn't have any points in stamina.
Better for who?
If its working for him who's to judge?
1, Kill faster: Stamina affects the damage of light and heavy attacks. I am using those a lot.
2, Die less: Having more stamina allows me for one more roll dodge/CC break/etc. where someone without it would have to take damage.
3, Since i am a Redguard, i actually get a % based increase to stamina. The higher the base, the better the effect of this passive.Edited by Sharee on June 30, 2014 2:34PM1 -
It would be objectively better. That build would die less and kill faster for any player with the stamina points divided between health and magicka.Can't offer bow advice, but as a dual dagger NB i have no problems. My attribute spread is 1magicka and 1 stamina for every 2 health (so at level 50 that's 12 mag, 25 hp, 12 sta). Armor (medium) has magicka enchants up to magicka pool cap, then rest hp enchants. I use magicka skills only. Stamina goes to blocks/dodges.
concealed weapon/dark cloak/piercing mark/impale/ambush
Your build would actually be much better if you didn't have any points in stamina.
Better for who?
If its working for him who's to judge?
1, Kill faster: Stamina affects the damage of light and heavy attacks. I am using those a lot.
2, Die less: Having more stamina allows me for one more roll dodge/CC break/etc. where someone without it would have to take damage.
3, Since i am a Redguard, i actually get a % based increase to stamina. The higher the base, the better the effect of this passive.
It says that it affects light and heavy attacks. It doesn't - 168 weapon damage means 140 damage light attacks (after hitting the average vr mob with mark target on them) - with static natural stamina this remains the same1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »
It would be objectively better. That build would die less and kill faster for any player with the stamina points divided between health and magicka.Can't offer bow advice, but as a dual dagger NB i have no problems. My attribute spread is 1magicka and 1 stamina for every 2 health (so at level 50 that's 12 mag, 25 hp, 12 sta). Armor (medium) has magicka enchants up to magicka pool cap, then rest hp enchants. I use magicka skills only. Stamina goes to blocks/dodges.
concealed weapon/dark cloak/piercing mark/impale/ambush
Your build would actually be much better if you didn't have any points in stamina.
Better for who?
If its working for him who's to judge?
1, Kill faster: Stamina affects the damage of light and heavy attacks. I am using those a lot.
2, Die less: Having more stamina allows me for one more roll dodge/CC break/etc. where someone without it would have to take damage.
3, Since i am a Redguard, i actually get a % based increase to stamina. The higher the base, the better the effect of this passive.
It says that it affects light and heavy attacks. It doesn't - 168 weapon damage means 140 damage light attacks (after hitting the average vr mob with mark target on them) - with static natural stamina this remains the same
Watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiUATvbFDUQ
Notice how the basic damage with dagger light attack went up from 70 to 75 after he ate stamina food.2 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have a VR4 NB archer. I have 25 points into stamina, and 24 points into magicka(not one point Into health) so far, I have actually done well in the vet zones. iv only had trouble in the vet dungeons, but that was to be expected(I did fungal grotto at VR1. lol. VERY hard, but very fun) in PvP, I do OK, I have even managed to 1v1 some higher lvl vet players(the game actually letting me stun them had something to do with it) I use impale, for a finisher, shadow cloak to sneak by tough enemies, and to escape from battle and confuse my enemies. strife/funnel health(thinking of replacing that with haste when haste gets fixed for the bow) this helps me to survive a little longer. scatter shot, to knock enemies back, and venom arrow to interrupt those annoying spell casters. my ultimate is deathstroke(incapacitating strike) its damage is ok, but I mainly use it as a knockdown/interrupt. im also planning to work mark target into this build when I go back to PvP. im sure you will figure something out thoughEdited by Cody on June 30, 2014 3:28PM0 -
Omnevolus✭✭✭sfradenb14_ESO wrote: »I am doing a NB with bows and stealth, that's the idea behind the class. I keep having issues with the class, feeling vastly underpowered, unable to complete quests, like im wearing a wal-mart shopping bag as armor. (Im wearing blue medium armor) Everyone kept saying to use this skill, or that skill and you would be awesome, so I waited till the so-called 'NB update patch' occurred, saving 14 skill points so I could choose my class path post-patch.
That's when I noticed the problem: I am stam based, my bow line is stam based, my armor is stam based, thus I dumped the bulk of my points into stam and not a single point into magika. All the flippin 3 skill lines are MAGIKA based and I cannot use them now. No wonder the couple skills I did choose early on don't work for ****. I have a mana pool size of a baby bottle!
This really sucks as I also am a werewolf, which needs a good stam build to operate (WW is currently unuseable and broken, but one day it might be fixed) so to be an effective fighter and dps I need the stam, but to survive I need magika, cant have both or I would truly be averagely ineffective.
I have given up attempting to play the NB. I think I'll play something else.
So, you're mad 'cause you don't know how to build your toon, and you felt the need to tell us all about it.
Smh.0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭This is why I think class skills should scale with level and there should be a seperate resource for dodge/block/sprint.
It would be objectively better. That build would die less and kill faster for any player with the stamina points divided between health and magicka.Can't offer bow advice, but as a dual dagger NB i have no problems. My attribute spread is 1magicka and 1 stamina for every 2 health (so at level 50 that's 12 mag, 25 hp, 12 sta). Armor (medium) has magicka enchants up to magicka pool cap, then rest hp enchants. I use magicka skills only. Stamina goes to blocks/dodges.
concealed weapon/dark cloak/piercing mark/impale/ambush
Your build would actually be much better if you didn't have any points in stamina.
Better for who?
If its working for him who's to judge?
1, Kill faster: Stamina affects the damage of light and heavy attacks. I am using those a lot.
2, Die less: Having more stamina allows me for one more roll dodge/CC break/etc. where someone without it would have to take damage.
3, Since i am a Redguard, i actually get a % based increase to stamina. The higher the base, the better the effect of this passive.
Trust me if those are the skills used you will kill significantly faster. You should have plenty of Stamina for dodge/block espeically considering how much faster they will die and being Redguard means you have even less need to stack Stamina.
Unless you are really broke in game give it a try and see what you think.0 -
mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »
It would be objectively better. That build would die less and kill faster for any player with the stamina points divided between health and magicka.Can't offer bow advice, but as a dual dagger NB i have no problems. My attribute spread is 1magicka and 1 stamina for every 2 health (so at level 50 that's 12 mag, 25 hp, 12 sta). Armor (medium) has magicka enchants up to magicka pool cap, then rest hp enchants. I use magicka skills only. Stamina goes to blocks/dodges.
concealed weapon/dark cloak/piercing mark/impale/ambush
Your build would actually be much better if you didn't have any points in stamina.
Better for who?
If its working for him who's to judge?
1, Kill faster: Stamina affects the damage of light and heavy attacks. I am using those a lot.
2, Die less: Having more stamina allows me for one more roll dodge/CC break/etc. where someone without it would have to take damage.
3, Since i am a Redguard, i actually get a % based increase to stamina. The higher the base, the better the effect of this passive.
It says that it affects light and heavy attacks. It doesn't - 168 weapon damage means 140 damage light attacks (after hitting the average vr mob with mark target on them) - with static natural stamina this remains the same
Watch this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiUATvbFDUQ
Notice how the basic damage with dagger light attack went up from 70 to 75 after he ate stamina food.
huh, that's such a tiny difference it's no wonder i didn't notice0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
He is actually 100% right. I don't know why you would throw people off from good advice. I know you are on your own crusade but come on, the guy is using 100% magicka skills. He is going to do more damage and abe able to cast more if those points in Stamina were put in to magicka. On my NB with 0 points or gear in to Stamina I have more than enough stamina to dodge/block which is the only thing he says he uses Stamia for.
If you want to use a Stamina build great for you but there is no sense it trying to persuade this guy not to take very good advice, this guy is not using a single stamina ability.
Anyone wanting to play through all vet content uses more than 5 skills. Anyone serious about playing end game needs to unlock as many abilities as they have Sp for. You have to be able to reslot of whatever the encounter demands and have the resources to feed those abilities. This is more true for NB's since our strengths are in melee.
Even the class melee abilities scale off weapon damage which in turn scale off stamina. If any one is ignoring stamina but still using melee attacks you are gimping your damage
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kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭
He is actually 100% right. I don't know why you would throw people off from good advice. I know you are on your own crusade but come on, the guy is using 100% magicka skills. He is going to do more damage and abe able to cast more if those points in Stamina were put in to magicka. On my NB with 0 points or gear in to Stamina I have more than enough stamina to dodge/block which is the only thing he says he uses Stamia for.
If you want to use a Stamina build great for you but there is no sense it trying to persuade this guy not to take very good advice, this guy is not using a single stamina ability.
Anyone wanting to play through all vet content uses more than 5 skills. Anyone serious about playing end game needs to unlock as many abilities as they have Sp for. You have to be able to reslot of whatever the encounter demands and have the resources to feed those abilities. This is more true for NB's since our strengths are in melee.
Even the class melee abilities scale off weapon damage which in turn scale off stamina. If any one is ignoring stamina but still using melee attacks you are gimping your damage
We are talking about the skills they listed. I went through every single zone of VR content without a single point in Stamina. There is absolutley no need for it unless that is just the playstyle you prefer. You can be a sneak attack melee range NB without any Stamina based skills. I would actually argue you can do it easier without any stamina based skills.1 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
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It would be objectively better. That build would die less and kill faster for any player with the stamina points divided between health and magicka.Can't offer bow advice, but as a dual dagger NB i have no problems. My attribute spread is 1magicka and 1 stamina for every 2 health (so at level 50 that's 12 mag, 25 hp, 12 sta). Armor (medium) has magicka enchants up to magicka pool cap, then rest hp enchants. I use magicka skills only. Stamina goes to blocks/dodges.
concealed weapon/dark cloak/piercing mark/impale/ambush
Your build would actually be much better if you didn't have any points in stamina.
Better for who?
If its working for him who's to judge?
1, Kill faster: Stamina affects the damage of light and heavy attacks. I am using those a lot.
2, Die less: Having more stamina allows me for one more roll dodge/CC break/etc. where someone without it would have to take damage.
3, Since i am a Redguard, i actually get a % based increase to stamina. The higher the base, the better the effect of this passive.
1.If you are using them a lot without siphoning attacks you are just reducing your dps no mater how high your weapon damage you will not compensate.
2. You would be surprised I think . Especially since you have Medium armor,Redguard and the new permanent stamina regen from NB. You shouldn't have much of a problem with 0 investment in stamina.
3.Since you do not have any magicka bonus it is even more important to go more magicka. I run Dunmer with 9%magick and 6% stamina and I used a very similar build in Vr2-7. Worked very nice with 0 stamina.
In the end play as you wish .ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
We are talking about the skills they listed. I went through every single zone of VR content without a single point in Stamina. There is absolutley no need for it unless that is just the playstyle you prefer. You can be a sneak attack melee range NB without any Stamina based skills. I would actually argue you can do it easier without any stamina based skills.
You dont understand what scales from what then. Just because it is a class skill does not mean the damage scales off magicka. If its melee it scales off weapon damage. Sure you can do it without having a lot of stamina but if you have a good build you can have both stam and mag soft capped and get the best of both worldsEdited by Hilgara on June 30, 2014 3:54PM0 -
ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭If there was a penalty for wearing light armour over heavy it might help make this game more versatile. Currently in VR it doesn't make much difference if you're in heavy or if you're naked with the apparent armour penetration of mobs. In PVP it's usually more about spell resist with so few wielding physical damage. People in dresses, who really should be getting torn apart compared to heavies in the same situation, actually suffer almost no penalty but retain all of the advantages.
Thus, if everyone must kill fast and not get hit then that tends to make the best build light armour in pure number terms. That said, I enjoy my medium NB through VR and PVP for reasons of "fun". It's not quite as effective but it's still viable enough, it's how I want to play it and it's just fun.0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭
We are talking about the skills they listed. I went through every single zone of VR content without a single point in Stamina. There is absolutley no need for it unless that is just the playstyle you prefer. You can be a sneak attack melee range NB without any Stamina based skills. I would actually argue you can do it easier without any stamina based skills.
You dont understand what scales from what then. Just because it is a class skill does not mean the damage scales off magicka. If its melee it scales off weapon damage. Sure you can do it without having a lot of stamina but if you have a good build you can have both stam and mag soft capped and get the best of both worlds
What skills in NB scale with stamina? Impale .. goes down and up with Magicka .. Surprise atttack .. down and up with Magicka .. Teleport Strike .. down and up with Magicka
What exact skills in NB scale with Stamina?1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
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He is actually 100% right. I don't know why you would throw people off from good advice. I know you are on your own crusade but come on, the guy is using 100% magicka skills. He is going to do more damage and abe able to cast more if those points in Stamina were put in to magicka. On my NB with 0 points or gear in to Stamina I have more than enough stamina to dodge/block which is the only thing he says he uses Stamia for.
If you want to use a Stamina build great for you but there is no sense it trying to persuade this guy not to take very good advice, this guy is not using a single stamina ability.
Anyone wanting to play through all vet content uses more than 5 skills. Anyone serious about playing end game needs to unlock as many abilities as they have Sp for. You have to be able to reslot of whatever the encounter demands and have the resources to feed those abilities. This is more true for NB's since our strengths are in melee.
Even the class melee abilities scale off weapon damage which in turn scale off stamina. If any one is ignoring stamina but still using melee attacks you are gimping your damage
Class melee abilities scale off of Spell Damage stat but weapon crit.
Stamina has no bearing on them.
My class skills have the exact same damage with 127 weapon damage stat as they have with no weapon equipped at all.
By contrast, a 10 Spell Damage necklace adds about 20-30 damage (90 on sneak attacks).Edited by Samadhi on June 30, 2014 4:02PM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
What skills in NB scale with stamina? Impale .. goes down and up with Magicka .. Surprise atttack .. down and up with Magicka .. Teleport Strike .. down and up with Magicka
What exact skills in NB scale with Stamina?
One more time.....Melee skills ALL scale off weapons damage, which in turn scales off stamina to a degree. Before commenting again do some research. this has been a well known fact for a while now.
Edited by Hilgara on June 30, 2014 4:00PM0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have a DK, Sorc and NB and out of all of them my NB does feel the weakest; on my NB while I need to really prep for an encounter my other classes just plow though them without a thought in the world.
@kieso What level are your classes if you don't mind me asking?You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭
What skills in NB scale with stamina? Impale .. goes down and up with Magicka .. Surprise atttack .. down and up with Magicka .. Teleport Strike .. down and up with Magicka
What exact skills in NB scale with Stamina?
One more time.....Melee skills ALL scale off weapons damage, which in turn scales off stamina. Before commenting again do some research. this has been a well known fact for a while now.
Dude go to your character write down the damage of a skill, take off or add a piece with Magicka and see the difference. Just because you say it doesn't make it true.3 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
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We are talking about the skills they listed. I went through every single zone of VR content without a single point in Stamina. There is absolutley no need for it unless that is just the playstyle you prefer. You can be a sneak attack melee range NB without any Stamina based skills. I would actually argue you can do it easier without any stamina based skills.
You dont understand what scales from what then. Just because it is a class skill does not mean the damage scales off magicka. If its melee it scales off weapon damage. Sure you can do it without having a lot of stamina but if you have a good build you can have both stam and mag soft capped and get the best of both worlds
Actually all NB skill damage scales from magicka and does magicka damage. Only crit chance% is different for some skills, some use spell others physical crit.Edited by PBpsy on June 30, 2014 4:03PMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)1 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭Concealed Weapon IV with one ring off 407 Magic Damage. Add ring with 76 Magicka (even overcharged so not getting full effect) 433 Magic damage. Add ring with 56 stamina in its place 407 magic damage. Adding Stamina had NO effect on Concealed Weapons adding Magicka did.2
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PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Concealed Weapon IV with one ring off 407 Magic Damage. Add ring with 76 Magicka (even overcharged so not getting full effect) 433 Magic damage. Add ring with 56 stamina in its place 407 magic damage. Adding Stamina had NO effect on Concealed Weapons adding Magicka did.
Yes. As pure NB with no weapon skills stamina is almost worthless. Since we also use 'bound weapons' in reality for our melee skills we could even take down our weapons and do just fine. Actually the best pure Melee NB with no stamina skills would do the best damage with a resto for 10% damage increase.
Edited by PBpsy on June 30, 2014 4:16PMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)1 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭Concealed Weapon IV with one ring off 407 Magic Damage. Add ring with 76 Magicka (even overcharged so not getting full effect) 433 Magic damage. Add ring with 56 stamina in its place 407 magic damage. Adding Stamina had NO effect on Concealed Weapons adding Magicka did.
Yes. As pure NB with no weapon skills stamina is almost worthless. Since we also use 'bound weapons' in reality for our melee skills we could even take down our weapons and do just fine. Actually the best pure Melee NB with no stamina skills would do the best damage with a resto for 10% damage increase.
That is exactly what I did.0 -
Paladin_echo1✭✭✭I went Staff Nightblade. When this happened, a lot of my questions were answered. I had more than enough magic to give people a hard time and it ended up extremely win. Until they fix this game to where the melee classes do their job, the Nightblade in full magic is just sick in damage. In another fight I got ambushed on my dk for 1.1k by a NB. I think I will post more on this soon.
Its sad but I have played every class with a Destro staff and now I see that all the classes play best with a destroy staff -___-.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is like a person saying that a sword made in japan will win you a war against a .50 caliber machinegun with armor piercing incendairy rounds. Its just not going to happen.0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭There is a lot of misunderstanding regarding what scales from what in this game.
ambush, surprise attack, killers blade etc use magicka as a resource but the damage is scaled magicka and weapon power. Also the crit is not derived from your magicka crit it is derived from your weapons crit. I could spend half the evening finding supporting info for this but I'd rather be playing the game. It's been a hot topic on Tamriel Foundty and Reddit for a while now but the theory crafter (god love them) have been busy with the calculators and spread sheets and the conclusion is as I have stated above.
The point is that you can have both softcapped, which give the most versatility in a build so why not?0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭There is a lot of misunderstanding regarding what scales from what in this game.
ambush, surprise attack, killers blade etc use magicka as a resource but the damage is scaled magicka and weapon power. Also the crit is not derived from your magicka crit it is derived from your weapons crit. I could spend half the evening finding supporting info for this but I'd rather be playing the game. It's been a hot topic on Tamriel Foundty and Reddit for a while now but the theory crafter (god love them) have been busy with the calculators and spread sheets and the conclusion is as I have stated above.
The point is that you can have both softcapped, which give the most versatility in a build so why not?
You can talk about theorycraft, supporting evidence and and spread sheets until you are blue in the face but you can just log on to your character and change equipment and see the results, which are damage increasing with Magicka but not Stamina or weapon damage.
Same exact test but with a ring that adds both 61 stamina and 8 Weapon Damage .. 407 Concealed Weapon.0 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭The mistake is putting all your points into stamina. Instead try health and then use armor stats for Magic and Stamina.
For stamina:
Instead think about increasing stamina recovery, and make sure you get the Passives, Refreshing Shadows and Wind Walker. Siphoning Attacks is also a really good way of getting stamina.
For Magic:
Combine Killers Blade with the passive Executioner, Siphoning Attacks again helps also the passive Magicka flood.
Don't underestimate the usefulness of just normal attacks and heavy attacks. On my dps meter basic attack is normally my third highest DPS after surprise attack and my ultimate.
Bows realistically are only good for single targets and in PVP, or at least that's what I find. It's easy enough using a bow to kill mobs from 1-50 but once in VR they rapidly become less effective against multiple targets.
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭You can talk about theorycraft, supporting evidence and and spread sheets until you are blue in the face but you can just log on to your character and change equipment and see the results, which are damage increasing with Magicka but not Stamina or weapon damage.
Same exact test but with a ring that adds both 61 stamina and 8 Weapon Damage .. 407 Concealed Weapon.
Its not that simple. Concealed weapon is a magicka based ability. It uses magicka as a resource and if you have a lot of magicka it will do less damage if you remove some magicka from your pool but it also scaled off weapon damage. If you do the same attack with two different weapons each having a different weapon damage rating you will also see a difference in damage. Also the crit of that attack is not based off you spell crit it is based off your weapon crit so having high weapon crit will do more damage than having a high magicka crit for that particular attack.Edited by Hilgara on June 30, 2014 4:54PM0