1. "The idea behind" Nightblades is not that they're a bow-using stealth class. That's just a preconception you have because of the name. They don't need to use a bow and stealth any more than a Dragonknight needs to use a sword.
2. Stamina needs some tweaks, but after figuring out that class skills are magicka-based, one would think you'd start balancing out your stamina/magicka abilities. You have a lot of class abilities to help you constantly regenerate your stamina. Between Refreshing Shadows and my Focused Attacks, I pretty much have 100% uptime on my weapon abilities.
3. The notion that having a balance between stamina and magicka would make you ineffective is what's killing your build. The balance between those two resources is what makes the difference between an effective melee/bow build and what you've described.

P.S. Attribute respecs are cheap, and most of your magicka/stamina should be coming from armor enchantments by the time you hit VR1 anyway.

My main is a bow/dw nb.
I definitely feel underpowered when I see Sorcs and Dragonknights blow through content that seems too easy for them.

Maybe im just used to oblivion and skyrim where the idea of 'open choice freedom' actually exists. That does not apply here, even though it was promised.

So make me a build and i'll respect and try it. I am partial to bows, but obviously Im a moron by refusing to do what everyone else is doing and play my own way. well its not working so Im willing to try anything to revive my character.
Mind you I do have a limit, If the build you suggest makes me fight melee all the time to be effective, then why bother with a NB? I can just do a DK for that, so give me that stealthy/assassin build.....

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

1. "The idea behind" Nightblades is not that they're a bow-using stealth class. That's just a preconception you have because of the name. They don't need to use a bow and stealth any more than a Dragonknight needs to use a sword.
2. Stamina needs some tweaks, but after figuring out that class skills are magicka-based, one would think you'd start balancing out your stamina/magicka abilities. You have a lot of class abilities to help you constantly regenerate your stamina. Between Refreshing Shadows and my Focused Attacks, I pretty much have 100% uptime on my weapon abilities.
3. The notion that having a balance between stamina and magicka would make you ineffective is what's killing your build. The balance between those two resources is what makes the difference between an effective melee/bow build and what you've described.

P.S. Attribute respecs are cheap, and most of your magicka/stamina should be coming from armor enchantments by the time you hit VR1 anyway.

sfradenb14_ESO wrote: »

Maybe im just used to oblivion and skyrim where the idea of 'open choice freedom' actually exists. That does not apply here, even though it was promised.

So make me a build and i'll respect and try it. I am partial to bows, but obviously Im a moron by refusing to do what everyone else is doing and play my own way. well its not working so Im willing to try anything to revive my character.
Mind you I do have a limit, If the build you suggest makes me fight melee all the time to be effective, then why bother with a NB? I can just do a DK for that, so give me that stealthy/assassin build.....

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

1. "The idea behind" Nightblades is not that they're a bow-using stealth class. That's just a preconception you have because of the name. They don't need to use a bow and stealth any more than a Dragonknight needs to use a sword.
2. Stamina needs some tweaks, but after figuring out that class skills are magicka-based, one would think you'd start balancing out your stamina/magicka abilities. You have a lot of class abilities to help you constantly regenerate your stamina. Between Refreshing Shadows and my Focused Attacks, I pretty much have 100% uptime on my weapon abilities.
3. The notion that having a balance between stamina and magicka would make you ineffective is what's killing your build. The balance between those two resources is what makes the difference between an effective melee/bow build and what you've described.

P.S. Attribute respecs are cheap, and most of your magicka/stamina should be coming from armor enchantments by the time you hit VR1 anyway.

You may remember that you could "do anything" in Skyrim, but you'd also die a lot if you didn't pick some abilities that would help you in a fight. Well, in this game, you can't adjust the difficulty slider when you die, so you have to adjust your build. There is no one right answer, but there are ways to be more effective.

Anyway, ignore my first bar, because it's my dual wield abilities. My secondary bar is my setup for bow:

Dual-wield/bow build

Now, a few things to remember: this is my basic setup for soloing content where I'm primarily focused on single-target damage. I will, for example, trade out Poison Injection for Scorched Earth if more AoE damage is needed. Silver Bolts replaces Bombard if I'm facing daedra/undead. I'll flip Dark Shades for Leeching Strikes if regeneration becomes an issue, etc.

The real flexibility in this game's system is that you aren't bound to keep the same abilities in your bar at all times. Switch abilities out before going into a fight. Experiment with different combinations for different situations. See what's going to be most useful to you.

Can't offer expert advice, my new NB is only VR2, but I have been leveling and playing it as bow/dw since the start. 5 medium armor, 2 light. Attributes right now are 12M, 25H, 12 stam. On my armor I add a mix of either stamina or magic enchants to up both those pools.

For me, I have based my skills, morphs, and set up my combat bars pretty much around single target abilities. So far I have breezed through everything (far easier then my V10 heavy armor S&S DK). I have found it is a matter of balancing abilities from bow to melee to of course my magic based class abilities

For Bow I mainly use Venom arrow and Draining shot. Opening with bow from stealth and I can usually kill 1st mob before adds get anywhere near me, both abilities interrupt caster somewhat, and swallow soul and or killers blade. Bow is a much needed interrupt on casters

DW I open with (from stealth) concealed weapon and 1st mob is 80% dead

Switching from Bow to DW to class abilities has been effective. Focusing on just one attack line such as Bow is just ineffective in this game I find. Use a decent combination of weapons and class abilities to match your preferred game style and I think you can have fun

I am trying to level my S&B Imperial nightblade now. This is more like work than fun. I would just delete her but she is too far advanced in alchemy. Sucks to be me. I d onot have this problem with my temps or finger wagglers though.

I understand your frustration but I believe it is somewhat misplaced. What you are complaining about is not a NB thing it is a Stamina issue. This is the main issue with Stamina builds that all of you class skills scale with and use Magicka. So the more Magicka you have the more damage you do with class skills and the more class skills you can cast. This is the case for all classes. This kind of leaves you with three choices, go heavy in to Stamina and use mostly weapon skills, go Heavy in to Magicka and use mostly Magicka skills or balance the two. Some people choose to split attributes in the Health and Stamina and then focus on Magika for gear enchants.

I think the most effective NB's are going to rely on Magicka more than Stamina but that doesn't mean you can't make it work if you prefer bow.

What skills are you currently using? If you let us know what your current playstyle is we might be able to come up with something that works for you.

Sharee wrote: »

Can't offer bow advice, but as a dual dagger NB i have no problems. My attribute spread is 1magicka and 1 stamina for every 2 health (so at level 50 that's 12 mag, 25 hp, 12 sta). Armor (medium) has magicka enchants up to magicka pool cap, then rest hp enchants. I use magicka skills only. Stamina goes to blocks/dodges.

concealed weapon/dark cloak/piercing mark/impale/ambush

Your build would actually be much better if you didn't have any points in stamina.

Vuron wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Can't offer bow advice, but as a dual dagger NB i have no problems. My attribute spread is 1magicka and 1 stamina for every 2 health (so at level 50 that's 12 mag, 25 hp, 12 sta). Armor (medium) has magicka enchants up to magicka pool cap, then rest hp enchants. I use magicka skills only. Stamina goes to blocks/dodges.

concealed weapon/dark cloak/piercing mark/impale/ambush

Your build would actually be much better if you didn't have any points in stamina.

Better for who?
If its working for him who's to judge?

so when I duel wield on my NB - over charged stamina full med armor with crit up the wazzoo - I go blood craze, blinding flurry, killers blade, reapers mark and incapacitating strikes (yes incap not focused) and incapacitate

mark target, incapstrikes, optional sneak attack - blood craze, light attack, blinding flurry, light attack (heavy if disorient procs - with incap strikes and a double crit this will hit for ~ 1k at vr8) and spam blinding flurry until low enough for killers blade - kill, restore all your hp and regen a bunch of magicka - use mark on your next target and repeat, I can kill 5 targets like this before I run out of magicka and stamina (trash mobs with 3k hp that is, and i only have 1300 magicka)

With a bow, mark target, killers blade (impale is better here, but i need killers for my melee build) incapacitate, focused aim, poison injection and scorched earth or bombard or magnum shot - pick your poison. Mark target - focused aim (optional sneak attack) poison injection - light attack, scorched earth/bombard/magnum shot - weave light attacks accordingly. Use impale/killers blade to finish, move onto next target.

Erock25 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

If you want to play a Stamina based character try Sorceror with Critical Surge rather than Nightblade.
From what I have read, the Stamina synergy for Sorceror is a fair bit higher due to being able to sustain based off of Stamina dps.

Stamina skills are pretty meh in general though; Class skills seem to provide far better for me than Weapon skills have.

Problem with stam sorcs is we have no physical crit class abilities and we rely on crit to self heal so medium armor really limits us. Also, sorc have zero class mechanics to restore stamina while DK, temp, and nb all do. Big pain in the ass.

-vr8 stam based sorc

Nightblade's Stamina restore is unfortunately mediocre, especially since they recently nerfed the returns on Siphoning Strikes. The toggle already heavily penalized users by nerfing down both spell and weapon damage.
Basically all Nightblade really has for Stamina restoration now is a 30% Stamina Regen passive, and the Haste morph that gives a similar effect. Neither hold much value for a Medium/Stamina build character as their Stamina Regen is likely already softcapped.

The catch is that Nightblade's health sustain is entirely reliant upon Magicka stat. I have tested both a full Stamina build and a full Magicka build on my Nightblade, the healing provided by Strife (our primary/only useful sustain skill) is more than doubled on the Magicka build. The HoT crits based on spell crit, so building for Stamina/Weapon Crit means healing for 80 hp every 2 seconds instead of 200-300 hp every 2 seconds.

I can agree that Weapon Crit is somewhat more limited in terms of build compared to the options for Spell Crit though(an Inner Light style toggle for Weapon Crit, anyone?)

I'm not saying Sorceror is omgOP on a Stamina build; just that I have read more positive response to Stamina/Weapon Crit Sorcerors than to the same build on Nightblade.
For that matter, I've read more positive input on DK as a Medium/Stamina build than Nightblade.
=/

I'm pleased with my Nightblade, but I'm a Nightbow specced heavily into Magicka and Spell Crit. It's not the build that most people who roll Nightblade expect themselves to be playing, but it's the same style as what I played in previous Elder Scrolls games so it works for me.

Vuron wrote: »

Common sense. If all of the abilities on your bar are magicka based, than it makes sense to use magicka.

You know, some of us actually like to help others instead of just complaining.

Doesn't sound like he need help at all

Sharee wrote: »

Can't offer bow advice, but as a dual dagger NB i have no problems. n

And the strategy of having and using two recourse pools is perfectly valid. I like to use the magicka pool for burst damage then move to stamina if anything is still alive. On long fights I do multiple bursts between stamina attacks generating one bar while using the other. Doesn't really matter how you do it as long as it works for you.

Yes stamina builds are broken, that's a known issue they have an official post about.

Most people put all of their attribute points into health and use armor enchants to max out stam and magicka. I haven't done it this way myself (not quite VR12 yet so holding off on buying the best enchants for my VR12 gear set), but my understanding is that it is pretty easy to soft cap all three attributes this way.

I personally soft cap stamina and health (attribute points are 5/25/19) with my current gear setup (enchants are pretty much random based on what I picked up) and some VR5 food that boosts health and stamina.

I have a DK, Sorc and NB and out of all of them my NB does feel the weakest; on my NB while I need to really prep for an encounter my other classes just plow though them without a thought in the world.

The problem with nightblade is that the class attracts stamina builds (my main is one) and they, apparently, are not nearly as powerful as magicka.

Just started my first alt caster and will read the specifics for when I'm beyond the newbie levels but the difficulty between the two in the same content so far is like night and day, IMO.