Please STOP messing with game graphics! "improved interior lighting" in 1.2

DeLindsay · June 2014

Ok gocha.

ArconSeptim · June 2014

mndfreeze wrote: »

Since I have a nice graphics card and a nice system I say MAKE IT PRETTIER AND NERF PEOPLE WITH LAME COMPUTERS.

Sorry!

I actually like games that properly utilize my nice graphics card and I'm sure other people who have nice cards also like to see them get put to good use. Generally mmo's are butt ugly compared to other single player or non-mmo multiplayer games because they have to be optimized to run on a much wider array of systems and much lower specs. If you don't have the card to run on ultra then you turn your settings down until you find the happy point where you can deal with the graphics and get an fps you like. This small lighting change isnt going to make or break your system unless you are already scraping the very bottom of minimum specs to play.

Idk how many people have those computers you own, if it were just on you ESO would fall down on 25% of players only, think again!

ArconSeptim · June 2014

zaria wrote: »

wafffllesss wrote: »

Probably there will be an option to toggle the lighting.

Think this is pretty obvious as you can turn off shadows and grass.

HAHAHA dear fellow I have turned off every single thing put it to lowest settings and still get the issue!

Madval · June 2014

Me sorry I thanks the devs for the improved Graphics it just rocks it's beautiful. More and more please my PC is hungry

ArconSeptim · June 2014

Your PC will die from not heart attack, it will die from CPU attack and GPU throthles.

aaronwalker27 · June 2014

I would never want to be responsible for customer relations on an MMO. I couldn't handle all the complaining. These guys could find a way to put actual money into people's bank accounts and there'd still be tons of people complaining that it wasn't enough. Ugh...

isengrimb16_ESO · June 2014

aaronwalker27 wrote: »

I would never want to be responsible for customer relations on an MMO. I couldn't handle all the complaining. These guys could find a way to put actual money into people's bank accounts and there'd still be tons of people complaining that it wasn't enough. Ugh...

Is why being a housewife is much better than workin'. I only have to please one guy and a cat, and they're not overly fussy.

(I get a pension, and am the one who pays bills and rent, so there.)

vanillexhope · June 2014

I recognize that it's not in everyone's budget, but I do recommend replacing out of date computer parts that are slowing you down. I recently updated to a SSD (around $200) and a new graphics card that was less than $200. I can play on the highest settings no problem.

Tarwin · June 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

My issue with this change is that some idiot thought it was more important to devote precious and limited developer time to this trivial and unneeded item than it was to have the devs fix actual problems in the game like broken quests and skills. I do not understand this reasoning at all.

My guess would be the graphic guys aren't utilized to deal with the gameplay bugs so they need something to do?

AlexDrago · June 2014

SilverWF wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

I'm confused are you complaining that you ONLY get 50-60 FPS now? 50-60 FPS is great compared to most MMO's with FAR crappier graphics.

SilverWF wrote: »

it was 100 before!

And?

I want my 100 FPS back

This is difference between Russian and another educations: you can't get such obvious things.

I can't disagree with you. Jjosh!

someuser · June 2014

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

someuser wrote: »

omg omg it dropped to 50..... how do you do it

<rolls eyes>

it was 100 before!

That's a fairly significant drop.

@someuser: The point isn't what is now, but that it dropped that much. Imagine having 20-30 FPS before and then it drops like that ... at which point you can't even play.

@IrishGirlGamer if you ran 20-30fps and got a 40% drop I would sympathize and agree that a) it was an unacceptable frame drop and b) that it indeed would be unplayable.

But I have yet to hear that is the case. I had 40 - 50 fps before patch and now I'm sometimes getting 27 - 35 fps (though in the wilderness it can climb back to 40 - 50+). It sucks, I want them to fix it, but by NO means is the game unplayable... and my GTX 770 is better than a lot of people who have been posting better frame rates... which kinda hints to me it not just GPU related.

But to the general population:

I could give two rat sh*ts less if you're getting consistent 40+ fps. Chill out and take your OCD meds. I've been gaming for a long time and I'm sick of hearing from kids that unless it is 80 - 150+ fps there is lag. No there isn't. The human eye can't even tell over 40ish fps and most monitors are capped at 60 fps (that's what 60mhz means for goodness sake).

IrishGirlGamer · June 2014

someuser wrote: »

@IrishGirlGamer if you ran 20-30fps and got a 40% drop I would sympathize and agree that a) it was an unacceptable frame drop and b) that it indeed would be unplayable.

But I have yet to hear that is the case.

It's happening to me around anchors. I drop to single digits (twice I dropped down to 4 or 5 fps) and often the mobs don't appear ...

Ethona · June 2014

I have: intel i7 860 2.8ghz model with 8GB ram with nvidia evga 650 GTX (Super Clock Edition) and FPS floats between 55 and 80fps. 55fps more so in the cities while the higher fps is out in the world. Of course i do exp a drop to around 30 fps when there's a lot of spell effects in dungeons. my settings are put on ultra and then i turn off shadows, that one setting that adds shadows to grass and other odd places, i don't use anti-alies either, or bloom. Shadows will run but pulls my fps to 45. So I'd say don't go blaming improved gfx for your issues so much as the parts in your pc. I'm guessing you're using an amd cpu ... good day.

pinstripesc · June 2014

Personally I've really enjoyed the updates and haven't experienced any downsides from them. Hopefully they keep them coming!

DeLindsay · June 2014

someuser wrote: »

But to the general population:

I could give two rat sh*ts less if you're getting consistent 40+ fps. Chill out and take your OCD meds. I've been gaming for a long time and I'm sick of hearing from kids that unless it is 80 - 150+ fps there is lag. No there isn't. The human eye can't even tell over 40ish fps and most monitors are capped at 60 fps (that's what 60mhz means for goodness sake).

I raided 25m in WoW for YEARS with no more than 17 FPS (usually 11-14) and had no major issues. Sure it wasn't the smoothest game experience but it was fine. I also did Arena 2s/3s and all that WoW had to offer for PvP and had no issues. I think the issue today is people get spoiled into thinking just like you point out, that somehow sub 100 FPS means the game is bad. I can't EVER remember a single person who ever got anywhere close to 100 FPS in WoW, even under the best of circumstances.

And don't get me started on Rift, I love the game and played it from launch but Trion has never figured out how to make that game run well. You all think Cyro is bad, go play Rift and join the zerg in Conquest, then come back and smile about how smooth Cyro runs.

Cogo · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

Dear ZOS,

Each major patch you introduced has degraded game performance significantly.

Maybe you are proud of your improved graphic here and there, but you cannot put these type of cosmetic changes above the performance!

If your improved interior lighting means another 5 fps drop, you are effectively killing this game, since it already requires very high level graphic card to play at good video settings.

THINK OVER IT! OPTIMIZE IT!

Sorry, I can not agree. Even have to correct the statement about less performance.

Not 1 but 2 patches have they made the game look better AND increased performance for me.
This new light features is amazing!

But you do need some kind of computer to handle it.

There are several posts on this forum, saying how great the graphic is and how the performance have increased.

Not talking Cyro/Graglorn!

But mine and others, guild members, friends in game, people in zone chat and posts here, all say the same thing, that performance have been improved. But it can be much more improved.

My graphic card is a AMD Radeon HD 6900. Almost 3 years old. So it doesn't really require that big cards to get all the nice graphics.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

I average 15-20 FPS. I have a five year plus machine with a card that costs $90 today. Two gb ram, 1gb of video ram. I can run it up to ultra (as long as the load distance is 20 or so), but monsters have a hard time showing up on my screen in time for me not to die, so going down to 'high' is my best bet.

I am, however, a player who prefers graphics over base utility. No matter what World of Warcraft or Wildstar could offer in terms of content (including housing, which is something else I'm passionate for), their poor graphics cannot compensate.

I would play ESO for no better reason than its' graphics, which is a plus, because I also really enjoy the gameplay. In a game's 1-10 scale, graphics and art direction in my mind make up a good 3 or 4 points, alone.

Side note to the op: design teams and art departments do not work on PvP or mechanics. And while coding in the art assets and new lighting code into the engine does take some code monkeys time, in many cases these are actual members of the art department (as in, that is their job they are paid for).

This type of department-centric work environment is familiar to any players who work in the corporate world. There is NO overlap. Left hand usually doesn't know what the right hands doing, ideally so that they can put all their focus in their assigned tasks. That's a development leads job, putting all the pieces together.

And as with any thing in real life, putting more brains in the mix doesn't equate faster performance. Every profession and workplace has an ideal amount of competent people to do the job. Think a 'soft cap' or 'diminishing returns'. Eventually, when you throw too many coders on the same project, you'll actually start taking LONGER to get it done.

Instead you could put say 5 guys on PvP (new campaign rework) and another 5 on new PVE content (craglorn region three) and another 5 on social mechanics (housing, guild banks, guild stores, tabbards, etc), and another 5 on dungeons (new veteran dungeons) and another 10 on bug fixes.

By spreading the work load evenly across multiple departments, you can actually get more done faster, than by trying to cram all 30 guys onto bug fixes, whereas maybe 7-10 guys can do work and the other 20 sit there with thumbs up dark places.

Cogo · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Side note to the op: design teams and art departments do not work on PvP or mechanics. And while coding in the art assets and new lighting code into the engine does take some code monkeys time, in many cases these are actual members of the art department (as in, that is their job they are paid for).

This type of department-centric work environment is familiar to any players who work in the corporate world. There is NO overlap. Left hand usually doesn't know what the right hands doing, ideally so that they can put all their focus in their assigned tasks. That's a development leads job, putting all the pieces together.

I cut your post short, but just wanna say I agree with every word you said.
I wish I was this good at writing posts. Good info, well simple read answering a complicated question with an easy answer.

Starting to think that I might be dumb! :-(

100 awesome for your post!

GnatB · June 2014

Just to point out...

Odds are the artists/technical artists aren't doing a whole lot of engine fixing. Odds are the software engineers aren't doing a whole lot of script fixing/tuning. Odds are the scripting folks aren't doing a whole lot of graphics improvements.

i.e. just because it's a "dev team" doesn't mean all the people on the team are interchangeable.

Slash8915 · June 2014

I personally like the update. The only place I have any real fps drops is in PvP during major sieges. Didn't have the lag before the update, have it really bad now. Could be due to the upgraded lighting on everyone's spells.

Srugzal · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Seriously, I haven't even seen a difference in FPS, and hardly notice any change in lighting. Maybe my Nvidia was already making the game look amazing before the fix.

it only show up in certain places, not everywhere.

I first noticed in the Keep at Fort Amol in Eastmarch. It gives the interiors a kind of ENB-like glow. Pretty cool. Look for interiors that are lit by windows. I didn't notice any FPS hit. There aren't all that many large, window-lit interior spaces like that in any case.

subecsanur · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

Dear ZOS,

Each major patch you introduced has degraded game performance significantly.

Maybe you are proud of your improved graphic here and there, but you cannot put these type of cosmetic changes above the performance!

If your improved interior lighting means another 5 fps drop, you are effectively killing this game, since it already requires very high level graphic card to play at good video settings.

THINK OVER IT! OPTIMIZE IT!

Not only that, imo it has caused actually more LOS issues now along with buggy effects causing a diffuse haze effect and odd shaped lighting effect especially in dungeons which I have noticed.

reggielee · June 2014

are you kidding? the graphics look gorgeous now. everything is so much more vibrant. Im sorry your system is having difficulites, try messing around with the graphics slider in game

crislevin · June 2014

reggielee wrote: »

are you kidding? the graphics look gorgeous now. everything is so much more vibrant. Im sorry your system is having difficulites, try messing around with the graphics slider in game

lol, you do realize this doesn't affect most places, right? I doubt it made the game "much more vibrant" then before.

and btw, they have a system recommendation, and they treat that like nothing basically. Yeah with top GPU/CPU you are fine, but ZOS may want to check their log and figure out if they are just working too much for 1% of their players.

ipong926 · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

Dear ZOS,

Each major patch you introduced has degraded game performance significantly.

Maybe you are proud of your improved graphic here and there, but you cannot put these type of cosmetic changes above the performance!

If your improved interior lighting means another 5 fps drop, you are effectively killing this game, since it already requires very high level graphic card to play at good video settings.

THINK OVER IT! OPTIMIZE IT!

setting? buy a better pc? stop crying?

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Cogo wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Side note to the op: design teams and art departments do not work on PvP or mechanics. And while coding in the art assets and new lighting code into the engine does take some code monkeys time, in many cases these are actual members of the art department (as in, that is their job they are paid for).

This type of department-centric work environment is familiar to any players who work in the corporate world. There is NO overlap. Left hand usually doesn't know what the right hands doing, ideally so that they can put all their focus in their assigned tasks. That's a development leads job, putting all the pieces together.

I cut your post short, but just wanna say I agree with every word you said.
I wish I was this good at writing posts. Good info, well simple read answering a complicated question with an easy answer.

Starting to think that I might be dumb! :-(

Most people wouldn't call what I say 'simple', but one of my jobs in a past life was as a journalist and writer. The military spent a lot of money training me to not sound as dumb as I am.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

reggielee wrote: »

are you kidding? the graphics look gorgeous now. everything is so much more vibrant. Im sorry your system is having difficulites, try messing around with the graphics slider in game

lol, you do realize this doesn't affect most places, right? I doubt it made the game "much more vibrant" then before.

and btw, they have a system recommendation, and they treat that like nothing basically. Yeah with top GPU/CPU you are fine, but ZOS may want to check their log and figure out if they are just working too much for 1% of their players.

I doubt I fit in the 1%. According to the ESO website, I'm barely making the minimum requirements.

I will admit, though, that I keep all my drivers up to date as much as possible, even if my poor graphics card runs two screens constantly and both my CPU and RAM stay 90%+ capped with 15-20 FPS, constantly.

Of course, as you can probably guess, PvP is a lag bomb from hell. But I expect no less from the size of the battles. That's not ESO's fault, that's a poor machine and me not tolerating the simply awful graphics of minimum settings.

Laura · June 2014

should make it a toggle option imo

Catches_the_Sun · June 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

My issue with this change is that some idiot thought it was more important to devote precious and limited developer time to this trivial and unneeded item than it was to have the devs fix actual problems in the game like broken quests and skills. I do not understand this reasoning at all.

Would you understand it better if you understood they are two separate teams? As with every MMO since Everquest, they are separate assets.

As for the lighting I was ecstatic to see it in-game and was very impressed. I haven't had any issues with performance, but if you do, just turn down your settings.

Phantax · June 2014

Hmm I'm on the fence for this one.
Personally I love realistic, visually attractive games, the better the realism, the better I like them.
However... It shouldn't be at the expense of performance !

Hopefully Zenimax/Devs will find a way to optimize this and get the FPS back up without having to regress the graphics improvements.