WARNING - HI URGENCY - DATA LOSS ON INSTALL

RyanEricW · June 2014

Like many people in the 21st century, I run a SSD as a main OS drive with limited space. Thus I install the 20 other games I have onto another HDD with 2TB of space.
This has worked for at least 20 other games, no issues.

I bought the game, all excited to get home and install it. I selected my directory

\_Installed_Games\ like I do with every other game.
It kept locking up. After trying to re-install at least 5 times, I let it sit for 15minutes. It wasn't locking up, it was DELETING everything else in the "_Installed_Games" directory. Needly to say I lost my entire STEAM client, and about 400GB, YES 400GB of data thanks to this damn game!

That's not the worst of it, it took literally 2hrs to downlod and update, only to get a 210 ERROR. That means it had to re-download everything from scratch for some reason and took another 2HRS. My god.

The worst part of it all is I had absolutely no forum access to ask for help. I called tech support and they said I needed to put a card on file to get forum access. WTF? Really?

Ok so I do that, they tell me it will only take up to 24hrs to get my invite email. 72hrs later I am now able to post.

Gameplay so far is fine, but everything else just pissed me the hell off. How is it that hundreds of other game manufacturers get the installer right yet somehow this one alone likes to WIPE harddrives?

The best part is customer service response:
"Greetings,

Thank you for contacting us about your difficulties with the install from our disks.

We would like to first apologize for this occurring, as we know it must be extremely frustrating. It may have been due to installing it in a custom location on your hard drive, so if that is what occurred, we would advise against doing that in the future. As it stands, we are not responsible for any data loss incurred during the install on your computer.

The situation that causes a wipe when installing in a custom location, should be fixed in an upcoming patch. When you re-install, please allow it to install to the pre-populated section of your computer that the game installs by default."

Really? Your solution is to have me install 40GB of data onto my SSD? FOR ONE GAME? There's a reason it lets people select their install directory, and it should WORK FFS without wiping data. Is that all really too much to ask?

Calorath · June 2014

Just to make note here, I have been using C:\Games for years. Nowadays Games is actually a second disk mounted into the folder, not a folder on the main disk. I did this for NTFS permissions issues since I run as a limited user and have for ages. I create a "Games" group and add users who need access to said drive to that group. The group has full access to the mounted drive.

Installers have never deleted files outside of their directory. My guess is that you pointed the installer to your games drive/folder instead of that location PLUS "Zenimax Online". My further guess is that due to this, it attempted to install directly into your folder or drive, saw extra folders and such, and failed. I guess it is a FAR possibility that after install, it did its check on the files, saw ones that were not supposed to be there, and removed them. I cannot reproduce this behavior on my end however.

KalecStromhir · June 2014

Do not know how big your SSD, but many MMO prefer to be on SSD when you install. Load times decreased, stable and more constant FPS. Even overall gameplay can be much smoother.
Currently I have the most played games on SSD.

The standard install goes like this.
C:\Program Files (x86)\Zenimax Online
Inside the Zenimax Online folder there is 3 more folders.
Launcher, The Elder Scrolls Online and uninstall. Also The Elder Scrolls Online PTS (if you decided to install that)

I think Calorath is correct on this. When you selected the folder to install, you didnt have the a sub folder for the game install. Instead you made \_Installed_Games\ the full game install folder.
Hence why your files was deleted.

RyanEricW · June 2014

I never create a sub-folder for ANY game I install because usually it's just 1 company name folder, which is filled with just another folder, then the game contents are there.
All I did was select \_Installed_Games\ which then it should've created the folder "The Elder Scrolls Online" WITHOUT deleting my files. I am not new to computer technology and have been installing games for over 10 years now. This is the first game that has given me any sort of issue.

I installed straight from the CDs.

If the subfolder was completely necessary, it should've been forced at the end of the path after selecting my desired directory. The fact that it is not, there is NO indication folder contents will be deleted is a recipe for DISASTER.

This removed the files right after I hit "INSTALL" on the launcher after selecting my directory. With no indication other than freezing up for 15minutes before it continued.

mobihci · June 2014

are the files still there? if they were quick deleted, then an undelete program may still pick up the folders. the only problem is if something overwrites the sectors on the hard drive, then the files may not be recoverable.

there are a lot of freeware undeletes on the net to try out.

this reminds me of the EVE patch years ago that wiped out all XP users boot.ini file! that was a major screw up, once the pc was rebooted after the patch it would stop with an error and not even get into windows!

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=651679

little consolation, i know, but it still helps to know that worse can be done.

GossiTheDog · June 2014

It's been like this since testing in 2013. When you install *MAKE SURE YOU LEAVE THE ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE IN THE FOLDER PATH* as it removes the install folder path on uninstall.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · June 2014

RyanEricW wrote: »

I bought the game, all excited to get home and install it. I selected my directory \_Installed_Games\ like I do with every other game.

They key when choosing not to use defaults is to READ what the default is for the name and then ensure when you change it you keep to the same structure.

It asked you where you wanted to install it, be default the name it uses APPENDS their name to the default location and includes that in the edit box.

Since you chose not to follow the default it was up to you to ensure you understood the way the installer was constructing the installation directory name and follow it: the installer did what you told it to!

Nazon_Katts · June 2014

Still, it shouldn't delete any files other than it's own data, no matter where it's going to be installed, don't you think? And if it does, that's a big bad bug right there.

zgrssd · June 2014

Let me get this straight:
You ordered it to install itself into the path [your ssd drive letter]\_Installed Games\ not verifying if it created a subfolder for itself (you told it not to).

It followed your orders precisesly, as programms tend to do.

It's a often updated game. Of course it writes the folder it is installed too. That is the reason launchers usually have to run under admin rights - to write the programm folder.
Updating also involves deleting not needed files and folders (everything not on the list of game files).

You are able to express yourself in full sentences. How can you not understand that the mistake was on your side and you have only your own misdecisions to blame?

GossiTheDog · June 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Still, it shouldn't delete any files other than it's own data, no matter where it's going to be installed, don't you think? And if it does, that's a big bad bug right there.

It just does del %installpath%* /s /q, basically. It doesn't check the contents. Apparently they're planning to patch it as there's been a bunch of threads about this. The key is to not install it to d:\ or whatever.

liquid_wolf · June 2014

Default: C:\Program Files (x86)\Zenimax Online

Change to: C:\Games

This does not create a Zenimax Online folder in C:\Games... it treats C:\Games as Zenimax Online.

Some installers wipe the folder before doing their thing... most don't though.

Seems like Zenimax Online wipes the folder.

So if you want to use C:\Games... make sure you make it C:\Games\Zenimax Online.

RyanEricW · June 2014

zgrssd wrote: »

Let me get this straight:
You ordered it to install itself into the path [your ssd drive letter]\_Installed Games\ not verifying if it created a subfolder for itself (you told it not to).

It followed your orders precisesly, as programms tend to do.

It's a often updated game. Of course it writes the folder it is installed too. That is the reason launchers usually have to run under admin rights - to write the programm folder.
Updating also involves deleting not needed files and folders (everything not on the list of game files).

You are able to express yourself in full sentences. How can you not understand that the mistake was on your side and you have only your own misdecisions to blame?

I ordered the installer to "install" aka "decompress & copy" the files it needs to my HDD. Just like every other installer on the planet. For some reason, this one decides to wipe the whole directory before "copying the data" aka "Installing".

I really can't believe this is such a hard thing to comprehend. The installers should NEVER be deleting data, ONLY overwriting if any conflicts exists.

I write this as a computer programmer, builder, web designer, master mechanic, etc. My knowledge and expertise is vast in many areas including computer related activities. I've owned and installed games since half-life 1, NEVER had this issue until now.

The problem is in the coding, not user error.

Rhoric · June 2014

The problem is on your end. You did not make the proper sub directory for the game. If you made the proper sub directory then this would not have happened.

Nazon_Katts · June 2014

Never should this have happened, not matter if it's an user error or not. The problem is with the launcher.

GossiTheDog · June 2014

Yes, there's user error as they clicked the wrong path - but wiping all their files is a software design bug.

That said it's been this way for a year, so I doubt it will get fixed soon.

Vandril · June 2014

Honestly guys, I don't care if the OP is at fault or what. The fact that the installer does this and does not default to installing into its own folder inside of the directory you told it to install into is not the user's fault. What it is is absolutely terrible program design. It's not even a bug, it's just bad design. Bad design, like a program made in the 90's.

What programmer in their right mind would even think this was a good idea? Obviously, a group of them at Zeni did. There is zero reason for the installer to work this way. None. Zilch. They need to fix this mistake and never make such a stupid design decision again.

I don't mean to sound brash, but designing a program in this way is truly that bad of an idea. I can't believe that they actually did this. I'm sitting here, at a loss, just trying to wrap my mind around it.

RyanEricW · June 2014

Thanks for the support guys. The people commenting on here claiming it's my fault clearly have no idea how installers work. This one has a demonized line of code in it.

I used to design games and create install packagers for updates and game releases. No one has ever done something like this, and am appalled the game SHIPPED RETAIL with this problem.

slackmare · June 2014

install fiasco that is clearly an oversight on Zenimax..they even stated it will be fixed in the future....
sorry OP...what a way to enter in to Tamriel. Sadly, i think that is the first of many frustrations to come. a foreshadowing you could surmise.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · June 2014

RyanEricW wrote: »

I write this as a computer programmer, builder, web designer, master mechanic, etc. My knowledge and expertise is vast in many areas including computer related activities. I've owned and installed games since half-life 1, NEVER had this issue until now..

Do you do brain surgery in your spare time too?

Brabok · June 2014

Rule one when ever installing anything on your computer:
ALWAYS read exactly what the installer window says.
Even software everyone knows and uses these days (like VLC for example) should be closely scrutinized in the installer.
always click advanced and make sure it goes exactly where you want it to go and make sure you are not getting any bloatware attached. (half a page of Browser Toolbars anyone?)

by simply assuming all is well and blindly clicking next, next, yes, OK (you just ordered a washing machine), something is bound to go wrong.

fact, you dont let every random person into your house without knowing at least something about them
same should be true for software and computers.

sure, there are more userfriendly installers out there and this one "could" be one of them. but that doesnt change the fact that it's up to the user to make sure nothing unexpected happens.

markrwb17_ESO5 · January 2015

The fact that people are being apologists for ZOS on this issue is laughable, the simple fact is that this behaviour of the installer falls well outside of general user expectations, even the expectations of users who have been installing software for decades, as well as any conceivable recommendation for installation routines.

A simple solution would be to append 'Zenimax Online' to the custom path, this is very much a 'better safe than sorry' approach and would have avoided this entire mess, the other very standard approach commonly found in older software installation routines is to install IN TO the path designated without arbitrarily deleting the entire *** contents of the folder.

The behaviour of this installer is unlike any i've ever encountered before and make it quite possibly the worst installer I have ever encountered in my life and career as a UI/Usability expert.

This is an oversight that ZOS should be completely ashamed of, it makes them look like completely incompetent idiots.