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Will patch size continue to be an issue?
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wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭Most of the US has data caps these days given under the guise of "combating piracy".
I downloaded the EU client recently on two machines.
Got a cease and desist letter because I pulled down 60 gigs in 24 hours.
But no, large downloads are never a problem.
Gtfo. Do you have any idea how much data is used to stream shows in HD from Netflix? Some months I've used over 100GB and never was given such a ridiculous letter. You need to contact your ISP if you have a problem like this.
Months.
Did you pull down over 60 in 24 hours?
My ISP also throttles *because* of Netflix.
You say get a new provider. Who? We have no competition here. Its SuddenLink or no one.
Grow up, seruously.
So the entire game is 60gb now and your ISP doesn't want you to download that much? I think that's between you and the ISP.
Actually 120 gb if you read Sakiri's message. Two machines, downloaded twice. Which wouldn't have been necessary in April. You could just copy the NA files into the EU sub and the launcher setting would determine whether you played NA or EU.
Then ZOS f'd it up with the version files.1 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Most of the US has data caps these days given under the guise of "combating piracy".
I downloaded the EU client recently on two machines.
Got a cease and desist letter because I pulled down 60 gigs in 24 hours.
But no, large downloads are never a problem.
Gtfo. Do you have any idea how much data is used to stream shows in HD from Netflix? Some months I've used over 100GB and never was given such a ridiculous letter. You need to contact your ISP if you have a problem like this.
Months.
Did you pull down over 60 in 24 hours?
My ISP also throttles *because* of Netflix.
You say get a new provider. Who? We have no competition here. Its SuddenLink or no one.
Grow up, seruously.
So the entire game is 60gb now and your ISP doesn't want you to download that much? I think that's between you and the ISP.
60 gigabytes in 24 hours.
Are you blind or selectively st...
Nevermind. Dont answer that.2 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
On the off chance that I do abandon ESO, yes, you may have my stuff. I'll ask for your character name when and if I decide I'm through.This. Mega QQ dude, do I need to buy you a new HD... delete some *** and youll have no issues.....*** or eso.
But In all seriouness....QQ dude.... crying because of large file size...really.....I mean really..... you even acknowledged there were bug fixes and your still mad.....
Ive seen this before....and im going to go with a preemptive strike.........
Can I have your stuff?
For now, though, if you'd like to view my complaints as "QQing", then by all means, please do. Just remember that by insulting my views, you're insulting everyone who shares the same opinion.
In any case, you can't argue that we need to just "get a different ISP" or "move somewhere better", because that isn't a readily available option. If it were easy to just pick up and move, believe me, I'd have done it, but it isn't. The fact that people can expect others to go so far just to play one game shows how privileged and entitled the gaming community has really become. If this isn't a problem for you, fine, don't worry about it. Let those of us who are concerned push for change. What do you have to gain from bucking us at every turn?
It doesn't have much to do with entitlement. You know when you see that word misused that the they have probably been listening to too much wingnut talk radio.
It's more a matter of lack of empathy. It's a 'I got mine, I don't know or care why anyone else doesn't' mentality and it goes way beyond little things like Internet access. I sure hope that this way of thinking is a cyclical thing and also hope it is peaking because this mentality really seems to be the new normal in the U.S.1 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »Most of the US has data caps these days given under the guise of "combating piracy".
I downloaded the EU client recently on two machines.
Got a cease and desist letter because I pulled down 60 gigs in 24 hours.
But no, large downloads are never a problem.
Gtfo. Do you have any idea how much data is used to stream shows in HD from Netflix? Some months I've used over 100GB and never was given such a ridiculous letter. You need to contact your ISP if you have a problem like this.
Months.
Did you pull down over 60 in 24 hours?
My ISP also throttles *because* of Netflix.
You say get a new provider. Who? We have no competition here. Its SuddenLink or no one.
Grow up, seruously.
So the entire game is 60gb now and your ISP doesn't want you to download that much? I think that's between you and the ISP.
Actually 120 gb if you read Sakiri's message. Two machines, downloaded twice. Which wouldn't have been necessary in April. You could just copy the NA files into the EU sub and the launcher setting would determine whether you played NA or EU.
Then ZOS f'd it up with the version files.
Actually, first was 60. Got letter. 60 in 24 hours. Suspicious download pattern.
I needed to put NA back on the laptop after so another 30.
I havent patched either EU client yet because of it.
I never had this issue until recently either. I was *really* hoping I didnt need to dl EU seperately but I did.
I can run every other games EU(that Ive played anyway) with only a localization and region realm list file change. This is two separate clients. Stupid.0 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »
SuddenLink, north coast California.
Yeah, I'd expect local isps will have more restrictive policies. If it was a major isp, the sites like dslreports would be buzzing with [big carrier]-hate.0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »
SuddenLink, north coast California.
You don't have comcast up there?
Hell no.
When I moved from Washington I practically begged them to come here.
Just next county north and into south Oregon has Time Warner. If I want Comcast I need to move to Sacramento ... barf.1 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm just curious why you had to download the entire game from both servers on the same day.
I'm also surprised this ISP cap is from California. I was picturing some middle America state like Arkansas.0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »wrlifeboil wrote: »
SuddenLink, north coast California.
Yeah, I'd expect local isps will have more restrictive policies. If it was a major isp, the sites like dslreports would be buzzing with [big carrier]-hate.
Their network cant handle the load either. Old hardware/infrastructure. Not a small company either. Theyre also the only cable tv/phone company here unless you want financially violated by att, who doesnt have higher speeds here.
Lost Coast, hidden behind the Redwood Curtain
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suddenlink_Communications0 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
Perhaps entitlement wasn't the right word. I admit that I make mistakes.wrlifeboil wrote: »It doesn't have much to do with entitlement. You know when you see that word misused that the they have probably been listening to too much wingnut talk radio.
It's more a matter of lack of empathy. It's a 'I got mine, I don't know or care why anyone else doesn't' mentality and it goes way beyond little things like Internet access. I sure hope that this way of thinking is a cyclical thing and also hope it is peaking because this mentality really seems to be the new normal in the U.S.
It does, however, have much to do with privilege. If something isn't a problem for you, in your mind, it isn't a problem at all. Everyone else is wrong. You have what you want, and you could care less whether other people have access to it or not.
However, let me ask you something. Why do you argue so much? What does it matter to you whether patches get optimized or not? It'll still be the same content, just a better patching system that'll take less time for everyone to download and install.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —1 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm just curious why you had to download the entire game from both servers on the same day.
I'm also surprised this ISP cap is from California. I was picturing some middle America state like Arkansas.
I have a desktop and a laptop, and my bf has a desktop thats recently been relocated for the summer.
I keep both clients on all three machines and patched.
With World of Warcraft and EQ2 and World of Tanks this isnt an issue. You can copy/paste and change files and boom, runs.
ESO demands individual dl and install for some asinine reason.0 -
crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thats no good, ISPs are implementing data cap nowadays, mine has a 250G/mo quota.
They really need to slow down and find a way to code the patch better, this big download is just frustrating for many.0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And SL operates in 16 states. Seems mostly rural areas, but I had Comcast in Portland Oregon, PA and coastal Washington. Come here and get this crap...
Doesnt help that my entire complex + college campus half a mile down the road eats bandwidth like candy.0 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭wrlifeboil wrote: »wrlifeboil wrote: »
SuddenLink, north coast California.
Yeah, I'd expect local isps will have more restrictive policies. If it was a major isp, the sites like dslreports would be buzzing with [big carrier]-hate.
Their network cant handle the load either. Old hardware/infrastructure. Not a small company either. Theyre also the only cable tv/phone company here unless you want financially violated by att, who doesnt have higher speeds here.
Lost Coast, hidden behind the Redwood Curtain
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suddenlink_Communications
I was going to ask if you had AT&T too. They offer DSL only? Funny because here in the city, some of the phone lines are too old for DSL and we are forced to use cable.
The game is only a one time download so you won't have to download the entire thing more than once. Expect each expansion to be between 5 to 10gb. Most of that is high definition textures, which anyone playing in HD will love.
I think the only issue I had was downloading content that I was not using yet. At lower levels, the new maps aren't even needed yet and downloading them should be optional.0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We have ATT but its DSL only.
Were locked along the coast. Regions got one way in and out along 101. Going inland I have a fat drive north for an hour.
Apparently costs too much to update an area that only serves 30k people.0 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
First of all, for many people, the game is more than a one-time download. There are piles of reports of people having to repair the game (in other words, download the entire game again) after downloading content patches. It wouldn't be such a big issue if that never happened, but with many people having to download these patches more than once, us "country boys/girls" desperately need optimization.The game is only a one time download so you won't have to download the entire thing more than once. Expect each expansion to be between 5 to 10gb. Most of that is high definition textures, which anyone playing in HD will love.
I think the only issue I had was downloading content that I was not using yet. At lower levels, the new maps aren't even needed yet and downloading them should be optional.
Also, if you're going the route of textures, Craglorn should've been larger than this patch, by all means. An entire map complete with high-res textures for terrain, monsters, items, etc. It just makes no sense how big this patch was, and in truth, the method of patching (just re-download all the game files that are affected instead of only replacing the code that needed it) is obsolete and troublesome, and it no doubt contributes to the massive size.Edited by emeraldbay on June 26, 2014 9:53PM-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —1 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
The updates are big, and it is quite a problem if you have data caps or limited play time. You have to remember that not everyone has light speed unlimited internet, and not everyone has the time to fully dedicate themselves to this game. Furthermore, we're complaining about something that perhaps we can't change, but the programmers and developers sure can. If we attract their attention, they just might listen to us.I don't agree and I'll say it right here. The updates are big and that is not a problem. You are complaining about something that you can't change and it's pointless.
If you ask me, it's worth the trouble, but if it's truly pointless, then you shouldn't mind if we complain just a little longer. c:
The major updates will be huge. That's pretty much unavoidable. What ZOS can do is reduce the time that the game is not available to players when they are downloading the patch. ZOS could push small pre-patches while you're in game since playing the game doesn't really use much bandwidth (make this optional of course). WoW goes a step further and allows you to play the game while the patching is live. The game just won't let you go into the content being added or patched. For example, after the updates to the quests or bg systems are downloaded and patched, the launcher will inform you that you can start playing. You won't be able to get that new zone or raid instance which is being downloaded and added while you are questing or doing bgs until that phase of the patching is complete. It was amazing when they started doing that. Nowadays it's just part of the overall experience and what people expect from an premium mmo.
Problem is fixes are made on the current content, on the place where you are currently leveling, on the skills you are currently using etc..Craglorn could've used some in-game patching, Update 2 apart from the new dungeon certainly not.
People also have to understand that ESO has more advanced graphics and sound than any other MMO, especially when compared to WoW. Yes WoW takes only 25gb on hard drive, I've played it for many years and I can understand why so little, the world there is just graphically not demanding much.
Edited by Bloodfang on June 26, 2014 9:52PM0 -
Gedalya✭✭✭✭✭Clearly modern game requirements are beyond the bounds of your imagination.
A number of people have raised this as an issue; however this is where modern games are heading: Titanfall: 50GB install, BF4 40G install, WoW even, 20GB install; and with big games come big patches. Get used to it.
Edited by Gedalya on June 26, 2014 9:53PM0 -
crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭wrlifeboil wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
The updates are big, and it is quite a problem if you have data caps or limited play time. You have to remember that not everyone has light speed unlimited internet, and not everyone has the time to fully dedicate themselves to this game. Furthermore, we're complaining about something that perhaps we can't change, but the programmers and developers sure can. If we attract their attention, they just might listen to us.I don't agree and I'll say it right here. The updates are big and that is not a problem. You are complaining about something that you can't change and it's pointless.
If you ask me, it's worth the trouble, but if it's truly pointless, then you shouldn't mind if we complain just a little longer. c:
The major updates will be huge. That's pretty much unavoidable. What ZOS can do is reduce the time that the game is not available to players when they are downloading the patch. ZOS could push small pre-patches while you're in game since playing the game doesn't really use much bandwidth (make this optional of course). WoW goes a step further and allows you to play the game while the patching is live. The game just won't let you go into the content being added or patched. For example, after the updates to the quests or bg systems are downloaded and patched, the launcher will inform you that you can start playing. You won't be able to get that new zone or raid instance which is being downloaded and added while you are questing or doing bgs until that phase of the patching is complete. It was amazing when they started doing that. Nowadays it's just part of the overall experience and what people expect from an premium mmo.
Problem is fixes are made on the current content, on the place where you are currently leveling, on the skills you are currently using etc..Craglorn could've used some in-game patching, Update 2 apart from the new dungeon certainly not.
This is irrelevant, they can download files into separate folders and wait until they toggle the switch from server side to patch the game. I am sure you noticed downloading and patching are two separate process.1 -
It's a major patch, so it took a day to download not a big deal, one day where you can't play is not the end of the world. It makes me laugh every time I see a comments about fix this or fix that or I am going back to wow, then go no need to tell anyone, vote with your wallet not with insignificant ultamadeums. ZoS is doing great IMO, people will always find one reason to complain, this is the age of instant gratification, patience is virtue.0 -
On a side note they could also make the patch available right at the moment the server goes down so we can begin download it while the maintenance is performed, there's no point in waiting the game server to be back online to begin the download
(the "patch" servers are different from the game servers)
(Yes there's actually 1 reason to not allow patch immediately , it's to allow rollback; but as said previously it is possible to allow the patch DOWNLOAD and then trigger the game client UPDATE later)1 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
No one here said they were quitting. We just want optimization in an area that is by no means optimized. We want the game to be accessible to as many people as possible.Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO wrote: »It's a major patch, so it took a day to download not a big deal, one day where you can't play is not the end of the world. It makes me laugh every time I see a comments about fix this or fix that or I am going back to wow, then go no need to tell anyone, vote with your wallet not with insignificant ultamadeums. ZoS is doing great IMO, people will always find one reason to complain, this is the age of instant gratification, patience is virtue.
We aren't upset because the patch takes too long (well at least I'm not). As you said, one day without game time isn't the end of the world. What we're upset about is the file size itself. There are many better ways to patch games than what Zenimax is doing, and if they invested in some better programming, it would be easier on everyone.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —1 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no technical reason why any of these patches have to be that big. A more sophisticated patcher could get away with a tiny fraction of the current patch size by doing differential updates.
The OP is correct in his assumption that the ESO patcher simply reloads the large game files in their entirety regardless of how much has actually changed inside those files.
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emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
Precisely why this is not such a bad thing to ask for.There is no technical reason why any of these patches have to be that big. A more sophisticated patcher could get away with a tiny fraction of the current patch size by doing differential updates.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —0 -
I live in Australia and the best connection I can get is 256Kb/sec (that's right, not even one measly Mb). I have been downloading the patch for 15 hours and still going (I'm up to 75%). I'll leave to you guys to decide if that's reasonable or not.3
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WindreaverSoul ShrivenI can't even seem to complete the download. Every time it hits 25%, it freezes my system and have to force shut down and reboot to do anything. I have a 50mbps connection, no data caps, and no problems with anything else. I even left it sitting the whole work day for 10 hours, and still freezes at 25%... I'd kinda like to play my game, not just stare at an update screen...0 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
On the off chance that I do abandon ESO, yes, you may have my stuff. I'll ask for your character name when and if I decide I'm through.This. Mega QQ dude, do I need to buy you a new HD... delete some *** and youll have no issues.....*** or eso.
But In all seriouness....QQ dude.... crying because of large file size...really.....I mean really..... you even acknowledged there were bug fixes and your still mad.....
Ive seen this before....and im going to go with a preemptive strike.........
Can I have your stuff?
For now, though, if you'd like to view my complaints as "QQing", then by all means, please do. Just remember that by insulting my views, you're insulting everyone who shares the same opinion.
In any case, you can't argue that we need to just "get a different ISP" or "move somewhere better", because that isn't a readily available option. If it were easy to just pick up and move, believe me, I'd have done it, but it isn't. The fact that people can expect others to go so far just to play one game shows how privileged and entitled the gaming community has really become. If this isn't a problem for you, fine, don't worry about it. Let those of us who are concerned push for change. What do you have to gain from bucking us at every turn?
Personally I don't know why these guys are harassing you, Emerald. You haven't "QQ'ed" at all in this thread. Not once. You've been level headed, insightful and rational this whole time. I, for one, do agree with you. These patches are far too large for no obviously logical reason. And even as a HUGE fan of the Elder Scrolls franchise, I for one can't be certain I'll continue to deal with the headache of 27 hour client repair sessions that come after 10 hours of maintenance. Yes, I am very unsure of it.
I'm not in any way angry about the patch sizes. I'm just too old and too busy with a professional life to mess with it. lol Stick to your guns, sir!
Edited for typo.Edited by Thunderknuckles on June 27, 2014 2:57AM4
