Racials and Game Balance - Let us Choose

Sakiri · June 2014

MeowGinger wrote: »

I'd really rather just have the option to change race & appearance for a ridiculously large fee (300,000 gold?)... like showracemenu, but no longer free.

If they do itll be a rl money transaction.

MeowGinger · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

I'd really rather just have the option to change race & appearance for a ridiculously large fee (300,000 gold?)... like showracemenu, but no longer free.

If they do itll be a rl money transaction.

I'm at a point where I'd actually be willing to pay rl currency (within reason) in order to change appearance, race, character name, class, etc.

It's just too exhausting and time-consuming to go through all the content (esp. vet levels) several times. I regret some decisions I made three months ago, but it's not worth starting all over (in a sense, throwing the time investment out the window) just because I'm not happy with certain aspects of my characters.

Synfaer · June 2014

Why do people post "leading" polls? To get an truly unbiased result to your poll you should have at least included a "No don't change it" instead of the ridiculous "i don't care about game balance" option which assumes game balance is entirely dictated by racial choice.
Or perhaps i am misguided to think that a poll is generally used to measure public opinion not dictate it.

DeLindsay · June 2014

I stopped reading the moment you tried to make ESO compare to WoW, buh bye.

UrQuan · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

Go look up the card game. Its hilarious. And it fits. Usually the person rules lawyering is being a jackhole to the DM and hes vetoed sooo many things.

Oh I've got the card game. It's awesome. I even made sure to pick up the pack of expansion cards for The Guild (because, come on, who doesn't want to have Codex in your deck?). I play it with my gamer friends (who are all in their 30s like me), and with my nephews. I was so proud when I heard that all 4 of my nephews love Munchkin (even if they really don't know the source material).

Sakiri · June 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Go look up the card game. Its hilarious. And it fits. Usually the person rules lawyering is being a jackhole to the DM and hes vetoed sooo many things.

Oh I've got the card game. It's awesome. I even made sure to pick up the pack of expansion cards for The Guild (because, come on, who doesn't want to have Codex in your deck?). I play it with my gamer friends (who are all in their 30s like me), and with my nephews. I was so proud when I heard that all 4 of my nephews love Munchkin (even if they really don't know the source material).

Im more amused watching my friends play it. Im the oldest in the group and not very good with it, but our DM from my weekly Pathfinder game... is a friggin jerk about it. Lol.

Went as far as to pick up Pathfinder Munchkin...

AlexDougherty · June 2014

Singular wrote: »

Your poll's answers are not representative of the possible choices. They only seek to back up your claims.

That's called "cherry picking" - it's not a useful way to generate data, but act as a thinly veiled confirmation to support your bias.

Agreed.
The other option covers more viable options than the other two.

For me the racials are fine as they are, they represent the theme of the class, since Morrowind Racials fixed to Race, that's why they're called racials. If you want a specific racial set you choose that race, if it's a compromise, then it's a compromise.

People these days are bloody spoilt, they want everything, and they fall back on the arguement "well if I'm paying for the game". This arguement is overused and weak, leave the racials as they are.

Edit~ if people have a beef with specific racials, like some have with the Argonians racials, that's a different matter, fine tuning is always an option.

Pele · June 2014

I voted NO.

It sounds like you want to create your own master race. Someone tried that in history and things didn't go so well.

Having traits unique to each race is a good thing. It's the differences between races that create balance because there are advantages and disadvantages; where one race excels, another may not and vice versa.

WyndStryke · June 2014

Posting grossly biased polls like this just make you look foolish. If you want an honest debate, provide honest alternatives.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · June 2014

I answered NO.

There is no such thing as racial Imbalance.

My choice was always easy. Khajiit all the way, even if Imperials are better to my play style.

Relax and have some Moon Sugar rum. All races are balanced. No need to start creating master races.

dsalter · June 2014

i'd support only because it goes slightly back to roots on ESO "class picking" otherwise i'd say no, i like my high elf mage based.

Sanibel · June 2014

Singular wrote: »

Your poll's answers are not representative of the possible choices. They only seek to back up your claims.

That's called "cherry picking" - it's not a useful way to generate data, but act as a thinly veiled confirmation to support your bias.

This.

Please think about and re-read your post before posting.

tordr86b16_ESO · June 2014

Seems like a struck a nerve. I must be doing something right, then. You people have come up with no sound arguments why I'm wrong, all I'm seeing is lore related stuff which really doesn't matter when it comes to balancing factions. If you think it is bull just look at how much AD owns in Cyr.

tordr86b16_ESO · June 2014

Sanibel wrote: »

Singular wrote: »

Your poll's answers are not representative of the possible choices. They only seek to back up your claims.

That's called "cherry picking" - it's not a useful way to generate data, but act as a thinly veiled confirmation to support your bias.

This.

Please think about and re-read your post before posting.

please post something constructive. also, you have "other".

NewBlacksmurf · June 2014

I say other because in TES we were born under a sign which was adjustable at character creation.

Now, the current way things are creates interesting choices but i would be nice to have a Reguard Templar with Breton racial benefits.
OR a mix of the two but it shouldn't be completely open.

Skjlvald · June 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Blizzard seems to be getting it these days: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/11913971864

Some racials in WoW has always caused people to play those races (min maxing) to gain the most out of their character. Specifically, trolls being the best pick to play as hunter (orcs second best). For the alliance side you have Draenai and Worgen, but overall Trolls are the best due to haste being such an important stat for hunters in MoP.

I see the same happening here in ESO and I think it's time you re-evaluate your current setup to keep the game balanced on all three sides. What you can do is let us choose what racials (call them perks instead) we want at character creation, and a new game mechanic similar to the respec feature. This way it'll be easier to level up new skills (heavy, light, medium, bow ext) by allowing us to pick and choose for certain needs.

Another great example is changing from a spell caster to a melee build. As you probably know everyone / zos, the total amount of physical crit (unbuffed) is incredibly lower than as a caster. So what would the most logical thing to do? Reroll a khajit after spending hours upon hours leveling your character to VR+, just to get the physical crit racial? I don't think so.

As soon as I read "in WoW" I stopped reading the post. This is Elder Scrolls.

tordr86b16_ESO · June 2014

Skjlvald wrote: »

As soon as I read "in WoW" I stopped reading the post. This is Elder Scrolls.

biased.

KhajitFurTrader · June 2014

The very premise of this poll is based on a wrong assumption. Racials in WoW are quite irrelevant at maximum level, whether max level was 60, or soon to be 100.

tordr86b16_ESO · June 2014

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

The very premise of this poll is based on a wrong assumption. Racials in WoW are quite irrelevant at maximum level, whether max level was 60, or soon to be 100.

You are wrong.

KhajitFurTrader · June 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

You are wrong.

I could now reply with "AM NOT! NYER NYER PANTS ON FIRE!" and, simply by doing this, would vastly improve the level of discussion that you seem to aim for.

AlexDougherty · June 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Seems like a struck a nerve. I must be doing something right, then. You people have come up with no sound arguments why I'm wrong.

Yes, you've struck a nerve, but for all the wrong reasons.

You're poll is so unbalanced it can't be called a poll, it's a choice between your answer, "who cares" answer and "Other".

As for us not coming up with any good reasons why you're wrong, may I suggest you actually read what people said. The racials are fine as they are, they are a minor consideration that is rendered moot by level 30.

And you haven't come up with a decent arguement for why they need to be changed.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Roleplaying games (of which, WoW is only barely) do have some hard choices in them. It's part of the allure to many. Character creation, backstory evolution, and curbing the story to your choices ... all have a huge impact.

Roleplaying games are also prone to min-maxers, a group of player I personally feel ruin the atmosphere of the game itself. And if the game has competitive elements (either with PvP on rare occasion, or more commonly in PvE-related competition like Trials or Raids), all end-game players become min-maxers to some degree.

The logical argument against racial bonuses, is the question if it really a choice to choose cake or death? Can a player choose to go medium or heavy armor, knowing light synergizes better and results in a 'better' character? Does choosing the wrong gear or weapon combo mean you will constantly do worse than others?

The logical argument for racial bonuses, is that player identity and individualism is one of the founding blocks of RPGs since the very beginning. Our ability to choose and evolve dictates our end result of fun and entertainment.

Personally, I will always choose the race I like, over the passives that race has. But I can understand why many simply do not have the ability to choose to be less. That's why I like games that randomize certain elements, or rulesets that make you choose a penalty feature for every racial bonus you get, forcing you to make something 'less than ideal'.

Because it's the imperfections that make us human.

We in my Pathfinder game call it "Munchkining" after the card game Munchkin, where blackmailing, cheating(and not getting caught), and in general being a jackhole to each other is encouraged.

Our barbarian multiclass(cant remember her exact build) was so finely tuned that when my DM ran her through a combat sim with the final boss of our campaign(demon lord Deskari) and she beat him... alone mind you... IN A ROUND AND A HALF. 9 bloody seconds.

Yeah. Min/maxing.

My next-to-last group I got to play in, I decided to min-max a 4e Barbarian.

I was literally finishing encounters before other players got to act, due to high initiative and multiple attacks per round. He was a blast, but in the same breath, he took the fun from everyone else at the table.

Next game I was just a regular rogue who was focused on roleplay and skill challenges.

Rev Rielle · June 2014

No, I think this is just whining really. Worried about something that 'might' happen. There's no need to change it.

tordr86b16_ESO · June 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Seems like a struck a nerve. I must be doing something right, then. You people have come up with no sound arguments why I'm wrong.

Yes, you've struck a nerve, but for all the wrong reasons.

You're poll is so unbalanced it can't be called a poll, it's a choice between two random answers and "Other".

As for us not coming up with any good reasons why you're wrong, may I suggest you actually read what people said. The racials are fine as they are, they are a minor consideration that is rendered moot by level 30.

And you haven't come up with a decent arguement for why they need to be changed.

Minor? http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Racial+Skills

WyndStryke · June 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

... Naw, all i see is butt hurt fanboys that have zero tolerance for what other game companies do. if it's someone who is biased here, it's definitively this community of white knights.

Paraphrase - "everyone disagrees with me, so I must be right".

Ever stop to think? Or are you just trolling as usual? (My theory is the latter).

tordr86b16_ESO · June 2014

WyndStryke wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

... Naw, all i see is butt hurt fanboys that have zero tolerance for what other game companies do. if it's someone who is biased here, it's definitively this community of white knights.

Paraphrase - "everyone disagrees with me, so I must be right".

Ever stop to think? Or are you just trolling? (My theory is the latter).

I don't mind people disagreeing with me, however, this prevalent fanboyism is getting out of hand. The more time I spend on these forums the more I wish they just stopped reading everything on the forums (including my thread).

Noshiz · June 2014

I am not voting on your poll unless you add an option like "Keep it the way it is, because that's how TES games are and should be" or anything similar

AlexDougherty · June 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Seems like a struck a nerve. I must be doing something right, then. You people have come up with no sound arguments why I'm wrong.

Yes, you've struck a nerve, but for all the wrong reasons.

You're poll is so unbalanced it can't be called a poll, it's a choice between two random answers and "Other".

As for us not coming up with any good reasons why you're wrong, may I suggest you actually read what people said. The racials are fine as they are, they are a minor consideration that is rendered moot by level 30.

And you haven't come up with a decent arguement for why they need to be changed.

Minor? http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Racial+Skills

Minor, yes I'll stick with minor, the effects of racials can be copied to a degree with enchantments and traits, and the value you get from your gear level 30 should be far greater than that which you get from racials. That's not to say that the racial abilities ontop of those enchantments aren't a nice extra.

AlexDougherty · June 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

WyndStryke wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

... Naw, all i see is butt hurt fanboys that have zero tolerance for what other game companies do. if it's someone who is biased here, it's definitively this community of white knights.

Paraphrase - "everyone disagrees with me, so I must be right".

Ever stop to think? Or are you just trolling? (My theory is the latter).

I don't mind people disagreeing with me, however, this prevalent fanboyism is getting out of hand. The more time I spend on these forums the more I wish they just stopped reading everything on the forums (including my thread).

Prevalent Fanboyism?? Most of the threads in these forums are about how bad the game is, not sure how prevalent this Fanboyism is.

ArRashid · June 2014

Racial choices ever mattered only to minmaxers, or as everyone calls them : elitists. Average player chooses race which he likes the most visually.