Forum mob mentality

someuser · June 2014

I agree with the OP that people with a negative experience are much more likely to come to the forums and complain whereas people with a positive experience are more likely to be playing the game... I learned that in sales 101 as a much younger man...

I also agree that some people with negative experiences mistakenly believe that their opinions are widely supported on these forums...

However, there are some legitimate issues with bugs and class imbalances that do need to be addressed.

Blackwidow · June 2014

trucqulent wrote: »

The downer is, as you politely put it, the community. If eso launched back in like 2007/8/9/10, the mmo genre would have given it raving reviews. It would have been a blockbuster hit.

If it was released in 1990 it would revolutionise the gaming industry.

In 1950 it would probably look like magic.

However today it is a bug riddled game with massive problems.

Mablung · June 2014

I have actually stepped back and I am posting less. Simple reason being is that I am not needed to voice my dissatisfaction with the game. New posters are here on these forums everyday expressing the same things many have expressed since launch.

I have to agree however with those that said a large portion of lovers of the game do not post just as a large portion of those that dislike the game and unsubbed do not either. Of my active main guild of 25, I am the only one to post here and all have quit the game.

Alphashado · June 2014

@Hilgara is just in denial that a gigantic number of people are unhappy with ESO and they are leaving. This thread is just another attemp to devalue and shrug off the sheer number of unhappy subscribers by lumping them into some pool of minority gripers while insisting that everything is fine and the mass exodus of players is all in our heads.

Meanwhile those of us that care about the future of the game will continue to raise concerns. That probobly sounds harsher than intended. But it just grows tiresome seeing countless legitimate concerns shrugged off as a vocal minority.

Heishi · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Simple logic, but never fails to stop posters from claiming 'majority' approval to their ideas or opinions.

Many have a grief, and want to vent. Problem is, it's a forum mostly full of either lifers like myself, or other people with problems. So in a quick and dirty hurry, it can turn into a riot.

EvE Online has demonstrated this numerous times. People enjoying the game hurt by a minority who hated it.

Funny thing, I saw a poll earlier on this forum where 80% would buy eso again.

Blackwidow · June 2014

Heishi wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Simple logic, but never fails to stop posters from claiming 'majority' approval to their ideas or opinions.

Many have a grief, and want to vent. Problem is, it's a forum mostly full of either lifers like myself, or other people with problems. So in a quick and dirty hurry, it can turn into a riot.

EvE Online has demonstrated this numerous times. People enjoying the game hurt by a minority who hated it.

Funny thing, I saw a poll earlier on this forum where 80% would buy eso again.

Everyone knows 80% is a minority.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113052/if-you-could-go-back-in-time-would-you-buy-this-game-or-not/p1

Clearly more haters than fanbois.

brandon · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Simple logic, but never fails to stop posters from claiming 'majority' approval to their ideas or opinions.

Many have a grief, and want to vent. Problem is, it's a forum mostly full of either lifers like myself, or other people with problems. So in a quick and dirty hurry, it can turn into a riot.

EvE Online has demonstrated this numerous times. People enjoying the game hurt by a minority who hated it.

Funny thing, I saw a poll earlier on this forum where 80% would buy eso again.

Everyone knows 80% is a minority.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113052/if-you-could-go-back-in-time-would-you-buy-this-game-or-not/p1

Clearly more haters than fanbois.

@Blackwidow
I'm confused how is 80% a minority?

ShedsHisTail · June 2014

/rabble rabble

Blackwidow · June 2014

brandon wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Simple logic, but never fails to stop posters from claiming 'majority' approval to their ideas or opinions.

Many have a grief, and want to vent. Problem is, it's a forum mostly full of either lifers like myself, or other people with problems. So in a quick and dirty hurry, it can turn into a riot.

EvE Online has demonstrated this numerous times. People enjoying the game hurt by a minority who hated it.

Funny thing, I saw a poll earlier on this forum where 80% would buy eso again.

Everyone knows 80% is a minority.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113052/if-you-could-go-back-in-time-would-you-buy-this-game-or-not/p1

Clearly more haters than fanbois.

@Blackwidow
I'm confused how is 80% a minority?

I know it helps to say /sarcastic or give a

when joking, but I thought that post was self evident.

I was agreeing with you.

Worstluck · June 2014

Heishi wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Simple logic, but never fails to stop posters from claiming 'majority' approval to their ideas or opinions.

Many have a grief, and want to vent. Problem is, it's a forum mostly full of either lifers like myself, or other people with problems. So in a quick and dirty hurry, it can turn into a riot.

EvE Online has demonstrated this numerous times. People enjoying the game hurt by a minority who hated it.

Funny thing, I saw a poll earlier on this forum where 80% would buy eso again.

I voted yes...I would definitely buy it again. I had a blast leveling and got my money's worth. If I am going to continue to pay though, I'd like to see some changes and updates that are more representative of what I want from the game. So far, not so much. Big patch tomorrow though; I'm interested to see how it turns out.

trucqulent · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

trucqulent wrote: »

The downer is, as you politely put it, the community. If eso launched back in like 2007/8/9/10, the mmo genre would have given it raving reviews. It would have been a blockbuster hit.

If it was released in 1990 it would revolutionise the gaming industry.

In 1950 it would probably look like magic.

However today it is a bug riddled game with massive problems.

you completely missed the point. I wasn't making a reference to technology.

Your typical mmo player at the time was often techsavvy, and less twitchy. It was... a different class of people.

Bugs were expected, and players finding fixes or workarounds was almost a rite of passage. If you created an addon to make something better, or submitted a bug report that offered any credible evidence, the community respected and appreciated you for it. In fact, it wasn't all that rare to have a guildie that was building addons themselves. Everyone "knew a guy".

Not because of the reasons you might imagine after looking at the genre today - pro leet attitude, for example - but because the average player was probably a student.. and often an aspiring developer of some sort.

People knew how to use /reloadui, or abandon and retake a quest. After receiving a blue screen, the average person would look to replace their ram cards before even considering posting about it on a game forum... because they had clue of how computers work.

For the reasons mentioned above, the focus was on depth of play. Quality of an "rpg" (meaning role playing game) held more weight than an entirely bug free experience. Entire sub communities were built around theorycrafting.

Today, the mmo crowd is just... a different class of people.

Blackwidow · June 2014

"trucqulent wrote: »

" Today, the mmo crowd is just... a different class of people.

Wow, you don't sound elitist at all.

Hate to break this to you, but most of the bugs can not be fixed by reloading or typing /reloadui.

Even if that were the case, there are a crapload of bugs and systems that should have been fixed by now.

Top that with the fact that the bugs are not even the main source of complaint anymore because the vet levels ticked a lot of people off.

There are so many screwed up systems, people are leaving in frustration.

trucqulent · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

"trucqulent wrote: »

" Today, the mmo crowd is just... a different class of people.

Wow, you don't sound elitist at all.

Hate to break this to you, but most of the bugs can not be fixed by reloading or typing /reloadui.

Even if that were the case, there are a crapload of bugs and systems that should have been fixed by now.

Top that with the fact that the bugs are not even the main source of complaint anymore because the vet levels ticked a lot of people off.

There are so many screwed up systems, people are leaving in frustration.

I didn't know decency was considered elitist.

If you look at bug complaints, and one of my poles, you'd be surprised how many of the so called "bugs" are just people whom are completely computer illiterate.

sure, there are system design issues.... BECAUSE THE GAME IS 3 MONTHS OLD. it takes YEARS to polish an mmo to perfection. it take analysis of PETABYTES of data to accurately assess balance.

again, all points that even a few years ago wouldn't be the highlight of a game because people had a clue.

MMOs wouldn't exist at all if the player base was as it is today.

Blackwidow · June 2014

trucqulent wrote: »

I didn't know decency was considered elitist.

You were being decent? Where did that come from?

If you look at bug complaints, and one of my poles, you'd be surprised how many of the so called "bugs" are just people whom are completely computer illiterate.

It's who not whom. Just FYI.

You poll means nothing, BTW. Sorry to break t to ya.

sure, there are system design issues.... BECAUSE THE GAME IS 3 MONTHS OLD. it takes YEARS to polish an mmo to perfection. it take analysis of PETABYTES of data to accurately assess balance.

You might have a caps lock problem, not that i want to call you computer illiterate.

The game systems are designed badly. It is a choice ZOS made. It has nothing to do with time.

The systems worked better 8 months ago and ZOS decided to change a lot of them and it upset a lot of players.

again, all points that even a few years ago wouldn't be the highlight of a game because people had a clue.

Again, you are wrong. You think people today are less savvy than 5 years ago?

LOL!

Are you just saying the young generation is complaining or do you really believe older people are more computer literate?

MMOs wouldn't exist at all if the player base was as it is today.

Read that again real slowly. Then read it again. Okay, now one more time.

Ready?

MMOs do exist with the player base today.

trucqulent · June 2014

-yes, decency was a touch more revered. Not sure how that's confusing...

-Fine, polls are insignificant... but the significance of user error is not.

-If you think system designs aren't influenced by time, you're not very familiar with development.

-yes, the mmo audience today is far more mainstream, and absolutely less tech savvy.

-you have a problem with context. you should try a little harder.

Alurria · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

trucqulent wrote: »

I didn't know decency was considered elitist.

You were being decent? Where did that come from?

If you look at bug complaints, and one of my poles, you'd be surprised how many of the so called "bugs" are just people whom are completely computer illiterate.

It's who not whom. Just FYI.

You poll means nothing, BTW. Sorry to break t to ya.

sure, there are system design issues.... BECAUSE THE GAME IS 3 MONTHS OLD. it takes YEARS to polish an mmo to perfection. it take analysis of PETABYTES of data to accurately assess balance.

You might have a caps lock problem, not that i want to call you computer illiterate.

The game systems are designed badly. It is a choice ZOS made. It has nothing to do with time.

The systems worked better 8 months ago and ZOS decided to change a lot of them and it upset a lot of players.

again, all points that even a few years ago wouldn't be the highlight of a game because people had a clue.

Again, you are wrong. You think people today are less savvy than 5 years ago?

LOL!

Are you just saying the young generation is complaining or do you really believe older people are more computer literate?

MMOs wouldn't exist at all if the player base was as it is today.

Read that again real slowly. Then read it again. Okay, now one more time.

Ready?

MMOs do exist with the player base today.

Blackwidow I truly like to read your posts except when you're taking cheap shots, calm down buddy. I think what truqulent is saying is that the MMO community from several years ago were more tolerant of bug/glitches because MMOs were a new form of entertainment. Computers were not wide spread in homes and most people including myself built our own systems. That's all. Is that about it truqulent?

TheVindelator · June 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I never assume that everyone agrees with me, in fact I'm happier to believe that a proportion disagree with any statement I make. That way I believe that people have their own minds, and can decide for themselves.

But you are right about most of the posts being negative.

I totally disagree with you.

Hiply · June 2014

Given that you started a thread on this forum with the sole intent of slagging people who post on this forum; I have to wonder if perhaps you should finish that conversation with yourself before having it here.

Phinix1 · June 2014

This Nord knows the score.

trucqulent · June 2014

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

trucqulent wrote: »

I didn't know decency was considered elitist.

You were being decent? Where did that come from?

If you look at bug complaints, and one of my poles, you'd be surprised how many of the so called "bugs" are just people whom are completely computer illiterate.

It's who not whom. Just FYI.

You poll means nothing, BTW. Sorry to break t to ya.

sure, there are system design issues.... BECAUSE THE GAME IS 3 MONTHS OLD. it takes YEARS to polish an mmo to perfection. it take analysis of PETABYTES of data to accurately assess balance.

You might have a caps lock problem, not that i want to call you computer illiterate.

The game systems are designed badly. It is a choice ZOS made. It has nothing to do with time.

The systems worked better 8 months ago and ZOS decided to change a lot of them and it upset a lot of players.

again, all points that even a few years ago wouldn't be the highlight of a game because people had a clue.

Again, you are wrong. You think people today are less savvy than 5 years ago?

LOL!

Are you just saying the young generation is complaining or do you really believe older people are more computer literate?

MMOs wouldn't exist at all if the player base was as it is today.

Read that again real slowly. Then read it again. Okay, now one more time.

Ready?

MMOs do exist with the player base today.

Blackwidow I truly like to read your posts except when you're taking cheap shots, calm down buddy. I think what truqulent is saying is that the MMO community from several years ago were more tolerant of bug/glitches because MMOs were a new form of entertainment. Computers were not wide spread in homes and most people including myself built our own systems. That's all. Is that about it truqulent?

More or less, yes.

Singular · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Simple logic, but never fails to stop posters from claiming 'majority' approval to their ideas or opinions.

Many have a grief, and want to vent. Problem is, it's a forum mostly full of either lifers like myself, or other people with problems. So in a quick and dirty hurry, it can turn into a riot.

EvE Online has demonstrated this numerous times. People enjoying the game hurt by a minority who hated it.

The irony here is that the OP feels no need to back up their claims - they're making the mistake you outline above - they quite clearly "know" their views on the forums are correct.

drogon1 · June 2014

Hilgara wrote: »

In any game the percentage of people who use the official forums in small. Most dont.
The forums are a place that people come to give opinions on the game and invariably the people who have a negative opinion are more motivated to post than those who have a positive opinion.
The majority of player who enjoy the game just play. The doom sayers in this forum seem to be assuming they have the following of the greater player base. You dont. You have the following of those that, like you have not enjoyed the game and that is far from representative of everyone.

If you enter the complaints department don't be surprised if its full of people who want to complain.

This is silly. For the most part I have found the criticism in these forums toward the game to have been made by players who want the game to succeed, and actually like much about it. In addition, though passions do leak through, most players behave themselves quite well.

OP you are forgetting something. ESO forums - like all corporate maintained gaming forums to my knowledge - have a built-in censoring mechanism: losing access to the forum when your sub runs out. Many if not most players unhappy with the game have been censored out of these forums already, and that is actually a good thing. ESO has a business to protect, and game critics have other places to express their criticism after their subs run dry. If anything, however, the critical voices on these forums may be UNDER-REPRESENTED because of this.

In the end, if the internal sub numbers are not what ESO hoped for, then it would be a good thing for them to have a look at what players actually have to say. The forums here are the venue for that, and it will be to the games' constructive critics that the devs should turn for ideas.

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2014

If the majority of the players hated as many things about the game as the forum goers, there would be no point in complaining really. The game would be beyond help as it would not remain profitable long enough to actually see the fixes made. I hope that is not the case and that is why I post about things that I think are broken/not fun. To hopefully have them fixed before they drive off too many paying customers.

Do my posts contain a certain amount of personal annoyance with the game? Yes, they do. But Im not here because I want to destroy the game and make community more toxic. I just want the bad things in ESO get improved.

Slash8915 · June 2014

Not going to lie, the negativity has definitely affected my view of the game. I was very "pro ESO" before. Not fanboy status, but sort of close. Then I started to see all of the negative posts on here and the Facebook page. At first, I used to sort of scoff and think they were just being negative for the sake of bitching. But... the more I played the game, the more I realized a lot of their points were valid.

Hilgara · June 2014

Slash8915 wrote: »

Not going to lie, the negativity has definitely affected my view of the game. I was very "pro ESO" before. Not fanboy status, but sort of close. Then I started to see all of the negative posts on here and the Facebook page. At first, I used to sort of scoff and think they were just being negative for the sake of bitching. But... the more I played the game, the more I realized a lot of their points were valid.

Imagine if you hadn't bought the game yet and were trying to decide based on the crap on here. All these people saying that they just want the game to succeed really need to take a step back and actually read the forum.

if I think there is a problem with the game I report it as a bug or raise an issue in customer support and when It is acknowledged and marked for fixing. I STFU about it.
Yes we all know stamina is underpowered. So do they
Yes we all know vet zones need some work. So do they
Yes we all know there are class balance issues. So do they
Blah blah blah.

If ZoS made a mistake it was having to put so much time and effort into sorting the bots and gold sellers out, which left them a little behind sorting these issues out. Hopefully we will see some real progress now.

Slash8915 · June 2014

Hilgara wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

Not going to lie, the negativity has definitely affected my view of the game. I was very "pro ESO" before. Not fanboy status, but sort of close. Then I started to see all of the negative posts on here and the Facebook page. At first, I used to sort of scoff and think they were just being negative for the sake of bitching. But... the more I played the game, the more I realized a lot of their points were valid.

Imagine if you hadn't bought the game yet and were trying to decide based on the crap on here. All these people saying that they just want the game to succeed really need to take a step back and actually read the forum.

if I think there is a problem with the game I report it as a bug or raise an issue in customer support and when It is acknowledged and marked for fixing. I STFU about it.
Yes we all know stamina is underpowered. So do they
Yes we all know vet zones need some work. So do they
Yes we all know there are class balance issues. So do they
Blah blah blah.

If ZoS made a mistake it was having to put so much time and effort into sorting the bots and gold sellers out, which left them a little behind sorting these issues out. Hopefully we will see some real progress now.

The main thing that REALLY made me start to become negative, was the lack of communication ZoS has/had. It seems to be a roller coaster with them. Sometimes they will be totally awesome about talking to us, other times, it seems like they are just ignoring us on purpose. Honestly, if they had awesome communication from the start, I would be MUCH more likely to defend them.

Mablung · June 2014

Hilgara wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

Not going to lie, the negativity has definitely affected my view of the game. I was very "pro ESO" before. Not fanboy status, but sort of close. Then I started to see all of the negative posts on here and the Facebook page. At first, I used to sort of scoff and think they were just being negative for the sake of bitching. But... the more I played the game, the more I realized a lot of their points were valid.

Imagine if you hadn't bought the game yet and were trying to decide based on the crap on here. All these people saying that they just want the game to succeed really need to take a step back and actually read the forum.

if I think there is a problem with the game I report it as a bug or raise an issue in customer support and when It is acknowledged and marked for fixing. I STFU about it.
Yes we all know stamina is underpowered. So do they
Yes we all know vet zones need some work. So do they
Yes we all know there are class balance issues. So do they
Blah blah blah.

If ZoS made a mistake it was having to put so much time and effort into sorting the bots and gold sellers out, which left them a little behind sorting these issues out. Hopefully we will see some real progress now.

The issues being brought up since April are still being brought up now by new forum users. People who in all likelihood ignored these forums but have got to a point in game that they are seeing for themselves that those posting 'negatively' are in fact correct. Or maybe they just got fed up with the casual manner in which the game appears to be getting fixed.

Honestly, I think it is the apologist who hurts the game more than any other post

x2link777b14_ESO · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

Honestly, I think it is the apologist who hurts the game more than any other post

Have to agree with this. Those who pretend everything is fine and there's no problems, and actively work to silence or try to disregard and debunk any criticism or complaints, do more damage to a game than the ones giving those complaints and criticism.

If you silence the people telling you what's wrong with the game, then those problems have a far better chance of never getting fixed. Which leads to new players encountering them, and giving their criticisms. Which are then silenced and disregarded by the apologists, until the new player gives up and moves on in disgust, and the cycle continues until the amount of people quiting dwarfs the amount buying and subbing, and the game dies.

Hilgara · June 2014

Take a look at the front page of the general forum and tell me where the apologist posts are. Look at every thread.
Now go to Tamriel Foundry general forum and do the same. The Reddit and do the same.

Notice anything? None of the QQing and no apologists. Just people talking about the game. This forum is just toxic in comparison.

Blackwidow · June 2014

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

I think what truqulent is saying is that the MMO community from several years ago were more tolerant of bug/glitches because MMOs were a new form of entertainment.

Isn't it a good thing we don't put up with as much trash? Maybe if we raise our standards, it will force them to raise theirs.

If enough MMOs die on the vine, maybe they will learn to not but such badly designed, bug infested stuff out there.

Also, the reason this game has more complaints is because it has more problems than most MMOs. You can't really think it is just the players who have changed.

I'm a 20 year old vet with MMOs and I have never see such a deboggle of a MMO come out like this.