NB, the real truth pre and post patch

Worstluck · May 2014

I am guessing my particular Nightblade is broken or bugged, or I am apparently doing it very wrong. Shadowy Disguise is pretty broken for me when using it in combat. Often times the NPC will see right through it. For instance, if I go invis while they are powering up a heavy attack or skill, I quickly move around behind them (rogues do it from behind har har) and they turn with me and smash me. Other times I am activating the ability and it's immediately breaking or ending much sooner than the 2.9 seconds. I am still seeing ability delay as well. I will press a button...nothing happens.

On top of that, I do not get the 100% crit chance from Shadowy Disguise. It seems to be using my spell critical chance for calculating the crit chance of Concealed Weapon. These are the same issues I've seen since beta, but I guess I am making it all up

goodexample · June 2014

for all those ppl in this thread who says that NB is NOT underpowered. devs have just confirmed that nightblade skill lines is in fact underpowered.
p.s numbers should have been enough.

SilverWF · June 2014

NB now have 2k DPS
L2P

LariahHunding · June 2014

SilverWF wrote: »

NB now have 2k DPS
L2P

Prove it or you are a troll.

SilverWF · June 2014

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

Prove it or you are a troll.

Learn your class, especially Ultimate managment form Siphon tree - all I can say...

plymale.jonathanb14_ESO · June 2014

Nyswar wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast.

Stopped reading there. Just because you can't think beyond the class name doesn't mean that Nightblades are exclusively a stealth-melee-DPS class. Nightblades make fantastic tanks and healers. And casters. And pretty much whatever you want.

When you finally stop thinking that classes in this game are the same as classes in other MMOs, you'll probably be happier.

Ok, so a NB can make a good healer or tank. What about dps? You know, the thing that NB is mainly based around? Your telling me that a supposed play the way you want to game, is forcing me to use a resto staff, or use heavy armor and tank...

I don't care if you want to admit it or not, the NB is supposed to be DPS class. That is what it is supposed to excel in, and it doesnt. And frankly the "be more creative and use this build" excuse is getting old. Your litterally saying that NB can only be viable in ANY role except the one it was designed for.

Wrong. Any class fills any role, and Nightblades weren't designed for DPS.

That said, I focus on DPS with my main Nightblade, and I'm plowing through VR content at a perfectly decent clip.

*Any class but templar fills any role. FTFY

RatsnevE · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Wrong. Any class fills any role, and Nightblades weren't designed for DPS.

That said, I focus on DPS with my main Nightblade, and I'm plowing through VR content at a perfectly decent clip.

So why have classes at all if this classic class talk is meaningless in ESO's hybrid MMOG? Frankly it does stink and for me in particular trying to get past a forced solo boss battle in the main story line using 'classic' NB tactics only to learn now that that boss (Molag Bal) is scripted and easy to kill if and apparently only if you kite him?

However, again, no one seems interested in NB classic skills in this game and what you do with any class seems to be a strategy free-for-all. I never played any of the beta pre release--only the 'beta' after release for the last couple months. Was it all like this from the beginning or has this 'hybrid' and 'class' mix-up mentality developed as a result of problems ZOS has been unable to cope with?

I now have a Vet 1 respec'd ready NB where I'm just waiting to see how to make sense out what points to respec where for attributes and skills. I don't feel like spec'ing points into nerfed or broken skills that might be better or worse the next time a patch rolls through. So I sit here wondering and wasting my game time doing nothing.

It's a pain in the butt and if ZOS cut me a refund check tomorrow it would be a gift I deserve. Otherwise I may sit another day doing nothing.

I've looked at a DW/DW NB build that looks intriguing but if it doesn't use the bow but only DW how do you go up against Molag Bal when its script demands kiting? Absolutely no satisfaction with plenty of confusion.

Gilvoth · June 2014

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast. Now some players have made some very unique modifications to their classes and excel in roles you wouldn't think about. But the hard and simple fact is that NB is meant to be a single target, glass cannon. Well we got the glass part, but where is our cannon?

I have leveled NB to VR10 using DW, and sometimes off spec'ing my bow on some bosses. Ambush, concealed weapons, and stealth are fine, but to be completely honest, after the initial strike, NB become almost useless. We have no real powerful attacks that even qualify us at assassins. Yeah mark target is ok but the weakness is tossed right back at us. The siphon skill line is ok but to be honest that screams mage to me, not assassin. In fact, the bow line is the only thing that I have ever seen that really makes a NB almost one-shot someone short of using Soul Shred from stealth (which, again... nerfed).

Long story short, you gave us *** skills for our class, and very little REAL survivability. You made ALL class skills rely on magic, but you were not consistent on how our damage scales. How is it that our main armor set boosts stamina regen, but we rely on magic?!? And screw weapon attacks and skills, those are not NB skills, they are weapon skills. On top of that, Blur is only for a 15% chance to dodge! That sounds more like a 2 skill point passive then an active skill. That is terrible! We have other near useless skills like Summon Shade, which isn't even a real summon, its just a debuff. Yes its true using something like healing paths and sap we can sustain our health and ive seen the video of the NB tank soloing tons of mobs, but most of us don't play that way. We are medium armor assassins with have no room on our bars for survivability AND damage.

You either need to A) completely overhaul our class (unlikely I know), or Seriously boost the damage output of the classic NB build. There is no need to boost any of the healing we have, we aren't meant to be healers, but our damage it nothing, single target or otherwise.

Now, the rest of the rant. (Spoiler alert, a lot of this has been said 1000 times)

ZOS... you give us a broken class on launch... ok fine, its a new game. This patch was supposed to fix some issues with our class, mainly passives... Well the passives you fixed are next to useless so no help there... You broke 3 skills in this patch... ok, first real big update, ill let that slide too.

I can let all of the above go ZOS, all of it. BUT ILL BE DAMNED, if you not only increase the difficulty of all the mobs in the veteran zones, almost giving them 50% more health AND damage output, but you have the gal to tell us that the NB fixes will come in 4-6 weeks?!?!? 4-6 weeks of a class that was barely holding it together solo as it was now having the added insult of MORE broken skills, against STRONGER monsters!!! You have literally made NB's almost useless, and more than a liability in ANY group content!

Ill be very frank here. You fix the NB issues ASAP. Not in 4-6 weeks, but as soon as you have a fix for an issue, you patch it. You listen to the players, and you respond to them more often! You explain to the players, WHY you decided to make the changes to vet content that you did with so much still broken, and you take into account player input on a class that honestly, needs a complete overhaul. After that you need to give out free one time respecs to all players to they can rebuild around the fixes and changes you have made. Offering respecs will not hurt your profits in anyway. this is yet another issue I have seen in forums over and over again yet I have not even seen a Dev get on and say anything about it.

And lower the mob strength until you get this stuff fixed!!!

Edit: Ok, I did not make my point on a couple of issues and for that I apologize. First, the NB itself did not get nerfed this latest patch. Aside from a couple more skills breaking, the NB overall POTENTIAL strength is the same. What happened, is the veteran enemies got a HUGE boost to damage and HP. Enemies of only vet7 are hitting me for 700 damage at a time, through medium armor. That is 3 hits and your dead. So no nerf to the NB, but we are at a disadvantage because while enemies were made stronger, we were not fixed, and our power remained the same.

On the issue of being forced into a role, I do not only mean Tank/Healer/DPS. I mean the skill trees as well. 90% of the people who have posted that are doing fine with their NB still, are using the siphon skill tree. Leeching strikes, sap, and the Shadow skill Refreshing Path seem to be the main thing that people are using to merely SURVIVE with the net patch. I say again, to those that like that playstyle, great. Use it, nobody is bashing you for using it. but there are two more skill trees that are DESIGNED for a solo playstyle, with high damage. The fact remains that the Shadow tree, and Assassin tree, are FAR too underpowered (forgetting that they are also broken, as I said ill let broken skills and passives slide for now) to be of any real use.

Finally. I have to be very blunt here. The NB is a class that is meant to do high single target DPS. It CAN be made to aoe, or be a caster, but the fact that it has two skill trees called Shadow (meant for stealth attacks, and burst damage) and Assassinate (for high single target damage out of stealth), means that it is supposed to have overwhelming single target potential. Between completely useless moves like blur (again, the 15% dodge chance sounds more like a passive then an active), Summon Shade (again, not a true pet that can hold agro), Mark (a move that literally makes you AND your target hit each other harder which pretty much negates its usefulness IMO), and Haste ( increases weapon speed by 30%, which is honestly not enough to be worth it in current state of game), we NB's are forced down the Siphon Skill tree in some way or another.

It is not that we cant still DPS, its that we cant DPS using two out of three of our trees. The two main trees for fast, ST DPS simply do not work, are completely underpowered, and are honestly a sick joke.

everything you said is true. eso simply does not have an understanding of what thier doing OR they realy just did this on purpose to destroy the assassin class / dark brotherhood / thief style of gameplay.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO · June 2014

SilverWF wrote: »

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

Prove it or you are a troll.

Learn your class, especially Ultimate managment form Siphon tree - all I can say...

Play the way you want anyone?
There are many NBs that ignore siphoon entirely.

You know even if one decides to play with only normal attacks, he should be able to be competitive imho :-)
(I know that in MMO it won't work)

davidetombab16_ESO · June 2014

nightstaff is a great class in pve but is too weak in pvp bacause poor self healing and low survivability

Ser Lobo · June 2014

I'm having a lot of success, but there are a few things I just don't try to do: I don't try to cloak in combat, and I don't dual-wield. And I'm not a mage, either.

My bow nightblade is wonderful. He's got a kind of gimped attack strategy, and this focuses on not-getting-touched-because-they-kill-me-in-one-hit. As long as I can knock an enemy back, I will win the fight, plain and simple. Might take forever, like certain bosses. Ranged fighters tear me apart, though, that's the truth. I am primarily siphon/bow skills and loving it.

My two-handed barbarian is a beautiful beast. Primarily assassin/two-handed skill line. Teleports to enemy, waylays everything, pops assassins strike for the finish. Literally walking through mobs with this heavy-armor wearing alt, not a problem (except the inherent issue of melee, which is getting to them first).

In both cases, I skip the shadow line. Doesn't sync well with me. I've yet to use the cloak effectively (I'll usually focus on stealth on first hit, only). All the rest of the skills I respec'd out of because they didn't suit my playstyle. Not enough effect to take up a slot on my bar.

And dual wield? I've seen some badass dual-wielding players running around, make my archer ashamed. Huge damage output. Myself? Can't make the abilities work for me at all. Don't know why, but it's like the whole templar class ... if you don't sync well with the class (as in, as a player using abilities incorrectly) then it's not the classes fault. And I'm not sure if it's dual-wields fault.

I do know that dual wield doesn't do NEAR the damage multiplier that many assassins are expecting it to do. It's not even a decent single-target skill line, with a lot of AOE focus.

Ingwe · June 2014

+1 to OP. Don't mind the people who are not getting what you are saying. I agree with you - and the problem is there are more people agreeing with you (they may not all comment on the forums as I rarely do) but these 2-3 people who say were noobs and we must learn to play our class etc are just elitist in my eyes. I want to play my NB the way I want to play it. Get it in your heads - I don't want to go light armor with staffs.

I want to go DW and assassinate stuff. If I wanted to be a healer or tank NB I would have gone that route. And before you start with "ye I am a vet 12 NB DW bla bla bla" not all players are these godlike master players with twitch accounts and solo's all Craglorn content. $:\$

For a lot of players even the average player looks like master players that can't die or do something wrong.

So yes for once realize that a majority of players are struggling with NB especially if they want to go an assassin like built. YOU might not struggle - congratulations - but calling other people out and saying l2p noob cause they are struggling is just plain stupid and rude. I have had VR12 NB's with Light and Staffs run dungeons with me and call me a noob and didn't want to run the dungeon with me simply because I did not play my NB the Optimal best staff and cloak way.

Once more, some people are struggling. There is a perception to NB. As a sorc you get the idea of casting spells and doing insane dmg with single and aoe spells. That is how it is. As a NB yes there are different routes but the most common thought is aaaaahhhhh assassin like style built with some stealth and crits, killing mobs but playing carefully.

and this is the area people are complaining about.

I am sure you have read all about how DK's complain how they cant tank or dps or heal.....and how sorc's cant dps, or tank or heal and how templar complain that they cant dps or tank or heal...ok who am I kidding

Templars can't (and yes I have a Templar and Sorc and DK)

Wifeaggro13 · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast.

Stopped reading there. Just because you can't think beyond the class name doesn't mean that Nightblades are exclusively a stealth-melee-DPS class. Nightblades make fantastic tanks and healers. And casters. And pretty much whatever you want.

When you finally stop thinking that classes in this game are the same as classes in other MMOs, you'll probably be happier.

LOL your really dont play the game do you. reserve your opinion until you have played the end game and your in a dress with your NB to stay vaible in end game activites. The truth is this is where we all end up . so in retorspect all classes make a good wizard.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast.

Stopped reading there. Just because you can't think beyond the class name doesn't mean that Nightblades are exclusively a stealth-melee-DPS class. Nightblades make fantastic tanks and healers. And casters. And pretty much whatever you want.

When you finally stop thinking that classes in this game are the same as classes in other MMOs, you'll probably be happier.

LOL your really dont play the game do you. reserve your opinion until you have played the end game and your in a dress with your NB to stay vaible in end game activites. The truth is this is where we all end up . so in retorspect all classes make a good wizard.

In truth, all classes seem to make perfectly fine wizards.

So it's my opinion that if they could bring everyone else (assassins, tanks, archers and warriors) up to that level? We'd have a pretty awesome game.

Eivar · June 2014

Rylana wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast.

Stopped reading there. Just because you can't think beyond the class name doesn't mean that Nightblades are exclusively a stealth-melee-DPS class. Nightblades make fantastic tanks and healers. And casters. And pretty much whatever you want.

When you finally stop thinking that classes in this game are the same as classes in other MMOs, you'll probably be happier.

Stopped reading you after i saw your quote. I really hate fanboys. Our class should be a major sinlge target burst class, not a healing or tanking class. Period. They *** up completely.

To be fair, we do have lines/builds that can do exactly that, we just arent railroaded into it. I have four or five different combos i put on my bars.

My usual PvE setup is...

Bar 1 DW - Sap Essence, Steel Tornado, Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul, Leeching Strikes w/ Devouring Swarm Ultimate
Bar 2 Bow - Bombard, Silver Shards, Impale, Swallow Soul, Focused Attacks w/Bolstering Darkness Ultimate

For PvP I tend to run a pretty cookie cutter Bow Snipe DW Assasination/Shadow line build for ganking, and a bar full of Assault/Support abilities for large group.

What it really boils down to is that with enough skill point farming you can put together a toon that can fill like 3-4 different distinct roles AND excel at them,

I can tank bosses, heal my team, do amazing AOE DPS, and kill a player in 3 seconds before they even realize what was hitting them

Each one is a different set of skills but all contained in the nightblade lines.

Out of curiosity what class armor and armor sets do you run? at the moment i'm playing DW NB(i have bow but i've found it to be severely lacking atm) I run a 5m/2L split, with 5 night's silence, and 3 night mother's gaze, and a warlock jewelry set, though i'm considering swapping back to my spell dmg jewelry.
i run dark cloak, flurry, impale(like the range for pvp), ambush, and concealed weapon(want to swap to suprise attack but i'm poor at the moment) for an ult i use either incapatictating strike for pvp or soul tether for pve. I do fairly well, in pve i have very few real issues, in pvp generally if i don't have someone below 50% after my initial burst, i have to run or die.

Cody · June 2014

I have seen "go the caster way" to the point I stopped reading this threads comment's. not all of us WANT to go the caster way! this is the point many of you are missing! I don't want to use a staff and LA as a NB, I want to use a bow and use the stealthy abilities that are supposed to be good for being an assassin! yall want to be a caster?! fine! but some of us WANT to play the traditional role, what about us? do we not matter?..... if you can "plow thru vet content as a Nb" good for you. you are a god at this game, but the fact is, not everyone can "plow thru vet content" with the current stat of NBs. if you equip a staff, of course you will be good! the LA staff build is currently the best in the game! but a lot of us don't want to become a mage, alot of us want to be ASSASSINS. ill shut up now, but I hope yall really read and thought about this post.

Malmai · June 2014

Mortelus wrote: »

Completely agree with the whole class skill using magika and skills that reek of mage abilities.

I hope they implement a class that uses stamina instead of magika.

This is the first character I have made in any of the ES games that I have had to think about magika. I have always players rangers or barbarian types which soley focus on stamina and athleticism.

This game so far forces us to use magika based skills to be viable.

Magicka Skills are your primary skills been there from start of your class like every other was born with this, Stamina skills are just bonuses to the builds i dont know where you guys get idea to have 5 stamina skills on your bar. Mix it with your Class skills as you say "Magicka Builds" and use some CC, every class got some, you cant play one shot hero in this game and its better that way.

RatsnevE · June 2014

Perhaps its this very mixing-it-up attitude that gets us out of balance that ZOS is allowing... Would there be sorcerers sneaking around doing assassin attacks if they could? Would there be a NB standing back casting their staves on Molag Bal or kiting him even? If this is what 'hybrid' means it is a failure. No wonder an over-powered class like the NB one day ends up nerfed and now, out of favor by everyone is under-powered. Pitiful up against a scripted boss that I demands the NB now play out of class if he expects to kill that boss! A battle that whose out-of-balance tactics makes no sense and has no bearing on any other battles but to confuse just what you think you are playing. A grievous error imo.

I WILL ALWAYS be focused on the scripted bosses because, after reaching level 49-->Vet-1 those are the only solo difficult battles I have known in the game so far.

I simply want my play time to go to sleep for several months, wake up, and find ESO changed and balanced right so I can built up my PC a proper NB again and move on in a desirable class solo or respected and needed in a group and not disadvantaged because I didn't spec and use a bow or staff and dared to take on an initial stealth attack against Molag Bal.

There are two problems:
1. The irreconcilable imbalances between classes and...
2. These cheap boss battle contests where you must go up against a boss out of character successfully if you want to continue the story...

I want to disappear for x-number of months while this gets sorted out properly or continues to spiral down to a horrible death. Play the classic classes! The environment and quests are fantastic! The story line ends when you recover your soul. Cyrodiil is just a whole lot of grand icing on the cake for the PvE vs PvP world.

Loco_Mofo · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast.

Stopped reading there. Just because you can't think beyond the class name doesn't mean that Nightblades are exclusively a stealth-melee-DPS class. Nightblades make fantastic tanks and healers. And casters. And pretty much whatever you want.

When you finally stop thinking that classes in this game are the same as classes in other MMOs, you'll probably be happier.

LOL your really dont play the game do you. reserve your opinion until you have played the end game and your in a dress with your NB to stay vaible in end game activites. The truth is this is where we all end up . so in retorspect all classes make a good wizard.

In truth, all classes seem to make perfectly fine wizards.

So it's my opinion that if they could bring everyone else (assassins, tanks, archers and warriors) up to that level? We'd have a pretty awesome game.

This is all we've been asking for, but for some people it's just too hard to comprehend. The idiots in this thread posting L2P for example.

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast.

Stopped reading there. Just because you can't think beyond the class name doesn't mean that Nightblades are exclusively a stealth-melee-DPS class. Nightblades make fantastic tanks and healers. And casters. And pretty much whatever you want.

True, but... if there is a class that should provide a satisfying assassin-like gameplay experience it is the NB. By virtue of its name, class description, the class skill lines, if you rolled a NB to play a typical sneaky-stabby assassin, you should not be disappointed. And in reality... well, we all know what its like.

RatsnevE · June 2014

L2P? Learn to play...got it.

1. ZOS, how about defining what you want us to 'learn to play' in some definitive fashion? Was it really your plan for all of us in different classes to try to play wizards?

2. ZOS, how about nerfing the Wizard now since it seems to be at the top of the 'killing chain'? Tremendous fun to see him brought down to our level of incompetence.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

To the learn to play comments, and my personal experience.

I chose to be an archer nightblade. Tried to throw dual wield in there, didn't work. At about level 40, my nightblade was so very painful to play with I thought about shelving him completely as a crafting alt. Just outright saying 'I'm through' and working on someone else.

Finally trudged through to VR1, and started a few alts. Templar didn't work so well. Sorcerer and Dragonknights were far too powerful, and as a veteran MMO player, I could *taste* the nerf inbound. So I made my two-handed barbarian nightblade.

Bouncing back to the VR1, cause guildies wanted to play together. Veteran content was so much more of a pain. Dying a LOT. And then it sync'd. Something clicked. I was timing my knockbacks better, not spamming skills, rotating my abilities more so that I could play off some of their synergy better (which I admit I didn't fully understand).

All of a sudden, I'm coasting through content. Not as easily as some, but it was definitely a 'learn to play' experience.

But I've been playing these games for awhile. I had a feeling that the class wasn't broken (in my mind, that means completely unplayable), and the fault rested somewhere between my chair and keyboard.

In the end, there IS a lot to think about. Are you maximizing blocks? Are you using dodge against standard homing strikes? Are you knocking back your enemy at the max range? Are you hitting them with poison arrow when they are casting (particularly good on healers)? Are you rotating your magicka/stamina abilities so you don't empty one pool out completely?

My gear? Hasn't really changed (though next set, I'm switching to all medium 7/7 with divine trait for extra crit). All custom made anyhow. My tactics and playstyle? So much better.

My sub-VR alts never die now, unless I lag out. It really made that big of a difference.

So when someone tells you to 'learn to play', while it's galling and often insulting, it may actually be good advice. Go out, find you a mob, and try to get all the special abilities and rotations down, instead of doing what I did and pressing 1-5 as fast as you can with no apparent thought.

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

To the learn to play comments, and my personal experience.

I chose to be an archer nightblade. Tried to throw dual wield in there, didn't work. At about level 40, my nightblade was so very painful to play with I thought about shelving him completely as a crafting alt. Just outright saying 'I'm through' and working on someone else.

Finally trudged through to VR1, and started a few alts. Templar didn't work so well. Sorcerer and Dragonknights were far too powerful, and as a veteran MMO player, I could *taste* the nerf inbound. So I made my two-handed barbarian nightblade.

Bouncing back to the VR1, cause guildies wanted to play together. Veteran content was so much more of a pain. Dying a LOT. And then it sync'd. Something clicked. I was timing my knockbacks better, not spamming skills, rotating my abilities more so that I could play off some of their synergy better (which I admit I didn't fully understand).

All of a sudden, I'm coasting through content. Not as easily as some, but it was definitely a 'learn to play' experience.

But I've been playing these games for awhile. I had a feeling that the class wasn't broken (in my mind, that means completely unplayable), and the fault rested somewhere between my chair and keyboard.

In the end, there IS a lot to think about. Are you maximizing blocks? Are you using dodge against standard homing strikes? Are you knocking back your enemy at the max range? Are you hitting them with poison arrow when they are casting (particularly good on healers)? Are you rotating your magicka/stamina abilities so you don't empty one pool out completely?

My gear? Hasn't really changed (though next set, I'm switching to all medium 7/7 with divine trait for extra crit). All custom made anyhow. My tactics and playstyle? So much better.

My sub-VR alts never die now, unless I lag out. It really made that big of a difference.

So when someone tells you to 'learn to play', while it's galling and often insulting, it may actually be good advice. Go out, find you a mob, and try to get all the special abilities and rotations down, instead of doing what I did and pressing 1-5 as fast as you can with no apparent thought.

Theres no doubt theres a L2P aspect to veteran ranks content... well, maybe not for all the classes and builds but for dw/bow NBs its definitely there. Thing is... while you can make it viable through improving your skill to play the char, you cant make it as strong and effective as those staff/robe builds. Playing well will allow you to get through veteran questing on your archer NB, it will not make your dps comparable to a staff/cloth DK or SRC in a vet dungeon/trial.

Doctoruniverse · June 2014

NB are the best singletarget dps in the game.

NB are the best singletarget healers in the game.

But its not enough ?

Loco_Mofo · June 2014

Doctoruniverse wrote: »

NB are the best singletarget dps in the game.

NB are the best singletarget healers in the game.

But its not enough ?

If you use a robe & a stick. WE KNOW.

Is this the only way we should play? Is that what your suggesting?

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2014

Doctoruniverse wrote: »

NB are the best singletarget dps in the game.

NB are the best singletarget healers in the game.

But its not enough ?

First of all, Im not so sure... Everytime someone posts a video of a caster NB doing good damage theres a caster DK/SRC somewhere in that same video doing more. Secondly, and more importantly, dont you even read what you reply to?

xaraan · June 2014

Again, everyone focuses on NB's being broken (they do have fixes needed) but it's not NB's it is Stamina based builds that are broken. NB's make great tanks, healers and magicka based DPS. Everyone that complains about NBs runs a medium armor/weapon build. This isn't a NB exclusive problem (though I do understand why people lean toward these builds with that class) this is a problem with every class.

With my DPS magicka build I out DPS our sorc most of the time (and he is good). Wonder why you don't do as well if you have weapons - well if you have put anything into stamina (points or enchants) then your class skills won't do as much damage. If you try to raise your stamina to get your DW or bow powers to do decent damage, you are taking points away from your class powers. So when you cycle between magicka and stamina based abilities one of the two are doing much less damage than if your whole bar was entirely one or the other.

OkieDokie · June 2014

RatsnevE wrote: »

2. ZOS, how about nerfing the Wizard now since it seems to be at the top of the 'killing chain'? Tremendous fun to see him brought down to our level of incompetence.

There's no need to nerf any class mate. Just bring the classes that are under-performing to the same level. This game will be unplayable solo if these nerfs keep coming.

Eivar · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

To the learn to play comments, and my personal experience.

I chose to be an archer nightblade. Tried to throw dual wield in there, didn't work. At about level 40, my nightblade was so very painful to play with I thought about shelving him completely as a crafting alt. Just outright saying 'I'm through' and working on someone else.

Finally trudged through to VR1, and started a few alts. Templar didn't work so well. Sorcerer and Dragonknights were far too powerful, and as a veteran MMO player, I could *taste* the nerf inbound. So I made my two-handed barbarian nightblade.

Bouncing back to the VR1, cause guildies wanted to play together. Veteran content was so much more of a pain. Dying a LOT. And then it sync'd. Something clicked. I was timing my knockbacks better, not spamming skills, rotating my abilities more so that I could play off some of their synergy better (which I admit I didn't fully understand).

All of a sudden, I'm coasting through content. Not as easily as some, but it was definitely a 'learn to play' experience.

But I've been playing these games for awhile. I had a feeling that the class wasn't broken (in my mind, that means completely unplayable), and the fault rested somewhere between my chair and keyboard.

In the end, there IS a lot to think about. Are you maximizing blocks? Are you using dodge against standard homing strikes? Are you knocking back your enemy at the max range? Are you hitting them with poison arrow when they are casting (particularly good on healers)? Are you rotating your magicka/stamina abilities so you don't empty one pool out completely?

My gear? Hasn't really changed (though next set, I'm switching to all medium 7/7 with divine trait for extra crit). All custom made anyhow. My tactics and playstyle? So much better.

My sub-VR alts never die now, unless I lag out. It really made that big of a difference.

So when someone tells you to 'learn to play', while it's galling and often insulting, it may actually be good advice. Go out, find you a mob, and try to get all the special abilities and rotations down, instead of doing what I did and pressing 1-5 as fast as you can with no apparent thought.

I completely agree that player skill comes into it, but I would really love to know what your sustained dps looks like, because while dps isn't everything it IS a good gauge of how competitive you are.

Eivar · June 2014

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Doctoruniverse wrote: »

NB are the best singletarget dps in the game.

NB are the best singletarget healers in the game.

But its not enough ?

First of all, Im not so sure... Everytime someone posts a video of a caster NB doing good damage theres a caster DK/SRC somewhere in that same video doing more. Secondly, and more importantly, dont you even read what you reply to?

Sadly I'm pretty sure 50% of the comments come from people who see a thread, read the OP, add their comment and never look back. The idea of reading through 4 pages or more of comments is just to much for some people.