NB, the real truth pre and post patch

ZeroTheCat · May 2014

I agree 100%. The Changes to NB in the latest patch are horrible and unjustified. I though the NB was getting fixed, not nerfed!?

Rylana · May 2014

Hi there.

My main (Kailiana) is a dual wield vampire siphon/aoe spammer with ~50 percent crit chance and can do over 2000 DPS/800HPS vs 8-10 VR11 mobs while healing anyone near me for quite a large amount. (still over 500/200 vs single target, but thats not what the build is for)

The fix to sap essence literally turned my toon into a killing machine (crit heals are absolutely epic).

not sure what your problem is, OP

CorporalCrimson · May 2014

True that man! I agree with the original poster. Waste of time to play NB now. I am thoroughly disappointed.

ZeroTheCat · May 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Hi there.

My main (Kailiana) is a dual wield vampire siphon/aoe spammer with ~50 percent crit chance and can do over 2000 DPS/800HPS vs 8-10 VR11 mobs while healing anyone near me for quite a large amount. (still over 500/200 vs single target, but thats not what the build is for)

The fix to sap essence literally turned my toon into a killing machine (crit heals are absolutely epic).

not sure what your problem is, OP

Yeah the vampire skills have nothing to do with this I´m sure.. ^^

Rylana · May 2014

ZeroTheCat wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Hi there.

My main (Kailiana) is a dual wield vampire siphon/aoe spammer with ~50 percent crit chance and can do over 2000 DPS/800HPS vs 8-10 VR11 mobs while healing anyone near me for quite a large amount. (still over 500/200 vs single target, but thats not what the build is for)

The fix to sap essence literally turned my toon into a killing machine (crit heals are absolutely epic).

not sure what your problem is, OP

Yeah the vampire skills have nothing to do with this I´m sure.. ^^

Synergy is Synergy, the only vamp ability I use is the ultimate. Unless you mean passives, which arent really all that.

The vast majority of my damage comes from Steel Tornado and Sap Essence

Brittany_Joy · May 2014

@oziebanks_ESO, Nightblades can do awesome single target DPS but most of it revolves around the magicka build. I can one-shot people with DW with actually no DW skills just my class abilities that cost magicka. You are right about Nightblade DPS going down during the fight though. But soul harvest really does alot of damage and should be used if you want the rogue like gameplay.

WetWilly00b14_ESO · May 2014

I hear the argument back and fourth reading the forums about your an idiot nightblade's aren't meant as a "rogue assassin type"....with this way of thinking a dragon "Knight" sounds like a great Healer to me. Why give these 4 main classes a name at all? If this game is all about play how you want then why do we even have the 4 main classes to begin with? If it was a true build your toon the way you want then we should just have every skill at our disposal and choose how we want to spend our points. by creating these classes "Nightblade" "DragonKnight" "Sorcerer" "Templar" they have been given an identity.

Now that ZOS have given these main classes an identity they are expected to play a certain way(I.E. NB=Rouge/Assassin, DK=Warrior,Sorc=Mage,Templar=Holy Knight/Paladin). You simply cannot just tell someone that they are an idiot cause they think there nightblade should feel like a rouge/assassin....unless your just trolling.

If you want true build your toon the way you want pure customization then these main classes should have never been made in the first place...this is nothing more then masked cookie cutter mmo *** just with some sprinkles on top...in a years time if the game is still alive these classes will have "builds" that most people will follow cause they will be the the best way to tank, heal, dps. It might change from patch to patch but it will still be there.

damonpeltob14_ESO · May 2014

i'll be the sorcerer that complains my ice staff doesn't freeze anything like it did in the 1st 20 lvls of my toon sometimes i feel like the game wants to make sure i die lol

SilvyrNixe · May 2014

I'm not able to get on much, so maybe my input is invalid, but I still would like to say something.

When someone says that this game is more of a "Play how you want", then I would like to play as a melee styled assassin and focus on stamina rather then be forced to focus on light armor and magicka, or even play as a bloodmage with the siphoning skills, totally fine with it being magicka based. That being said, I understand that in the NB skill tree that some of the abilities are more magic based, such as Shadow Cloak, but most of these should not rely on magicka, as they all seem to.

OkieDokie · May 2014

Zxaxz wrote: »

If you can't solo 3-4 mobs as a Single target DW NB, frankly you're doing it wrong.

http://www.twitch.tv/iamepitaph/b/531230213 (Made 1 hour after 1.1.2 patch)

GreasedLizard wrote: »

Zxaxz wrote: »

I can solo it all...Your NB must be broken, ask for a refund.

http://www.twitch.tv/iamepitaph/b/531230213 (Made 1 hour after 1.1.2 patch)

1 bar - 5 skills, 1 Ult.

What's the name of your buff bars add-on ?

S'rendarr - Aura and buff tracker (Sorry name wrong add-on before) very good customization, but you can Not move the top enemies bar as of yet.

Axewaffle wrote: »
Ive spent 180k on respecs trying to refine my dps, the highest single target I've managed to achieve is 720dps...

I can pull as shown in the video above, depending on the fight, mobs from 853500 DPS, lol level 50 Cyr 1 shot - But really - 500-1000 DPS depending on the lenght of the fight of course. So if you spent 180K to theory craft and could not get that at least, damn, sorry man. You can see my dps in the video above.....V7 DW NB

Well, I'm getting 700-1.1k in 5-6 pack enemies in a VR3 public dungeon with 1h/shield and I do think NB damage is not escalating as it should.

It is not about knowing how to play, NB needs improvement.

I think there is something wrong with combat response after the patch, I got frozen controls several times and concealed blades seems not be working properly too.

Rylana · May 2014

Leeching Strikes + Siphon line increases your DPS a ton.

You might think losing a flat 22 percent damage would make you lower, but on a strong Magicka/Stam regen build, oh my god. You can spam Sap + Tornado almost indefinitely.

People see their DPS drop because they tank their pools, keep them up and your DPS will not drop.

If you REALLY think you need a spike, just swap to bow or another DW set of swords on second bar and slot your assassination/shadow stuff.

NinjaApacHe · May 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast.

Stopped reading there. Just because you can't think beyond the class name doesn't mean that Nightblades are exclusively a stealth-melee-DPS class. Nightblades make fantastic tanks and healers. And casters. And pretty much whatever you want.

When you finally stop thinking that classes in this game are the same as classes in other MMOs, you'll probably be happier.

Stopped reading you after i saw your quote. I really hate fanboys. Our class should be a major sinlge target burst class, not a healing or tanking class. Period. They *** up completely.

Xau · May 2014

*claps*

Bhakura · May 2014

Dont see the problem.
Agreed my NB is far from what people expect to be as NB, full magicka build with 0 stamina skills and never ever using sneaks.
DPS parser ranges from 400-900 at VR6 with only one green 3 purple and the rest blue items equiped.
So id say DPS is quite sufficient, yes yes you do more DPS with your NB, i think my DPS is sufficient because i have no trouble soloing.
Now also have a healing build on second skillbar, in group i usually switch to heals, if people arent attracted to aoes like flies on a dunghill no one dies, id say thats pretty decent healing.
If im doing dolmens, i switch between heals and dps and pulling agro in no time, so there i become a tank.

So what exactly is the problem with NB? Im doing all three roles in one toon and havent switched a single skill since level 40+?

Rylana · May 2014

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast.

Stopped reading there. Just because you can't think beyond the class name doesn't mean that Nightblades are exclusively a stealth-melee-DPS class. Nightblades make fantastic tanks and healers. And casters. And pretty much whatever you want.

When you finally stop thinking that classes in this game are the same as classes in other MMOs, you'll probably be happier.

Stopped reading you after i saw your quote. I really hate fanboys. Our class should be a major sinlge target burst class, not a healing or tanking class. Period. They *** up completely.

To be fair, we do have lines/builds that can do exactly that, we just arent railroaded into it. I have four or five different combos i put on my bars.

My usual PvE setup is...

Bar 1 DW - Sap Essence, Steel Tornado, Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul, Leeching Strikes w/ Devouring Swarm Ultimate
Bar 2 Bow - Bombard, Silver Shards, Impale, Swallow Soul, Focused Attacks w/Bolstering Darkness Ultimate

For PvP I tend to run a pretty cookie cutter Bow Snipe DW Assasination/Shadow line build for ganking, and a bar full of Assault/Support abilities for large group.

What it really boils down to is that with enough skill point farming you can put together a toon that can fill like 3-4 different distinct roles AND excel at them,

I can tank bosses, heal my team, do amazing AOE DPS, and kill a player in 3 seconds before they even realize what was hitting them

Each one is a different set of skills but all contained in the nightblade lines.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO · May 2014

NB, look at the fixes !! They at least fix you !!

Templars need fixes also, and where do i see them in the patch notes ?
Only nerfs

for ressing and some changes to some buffs..

Our dps lacks also like yours, only DK/Sorc are worth for DPS while NB/Temp are placed back as a Tank/healer ( Face it its true, i hope after this patch NB because usefull as a DPS agian tough )

Blinding lights, is bugged if you respec your skills, it will still be lighted as learned even tough you didnt learn it, and cant use it nor i can use skillpoints on it..

Our only DPS skill that is good, is biting jabs.. Even this skill is not good enough to keep up with DPS as sorc/DK..

We got Darkflare which is the same kinda as crystal shard, guess what.. it has longer casting and does less dmg ( ye you get wep dmg for next skill, but it doesnt work nicely )

Like NB, we are forced in to different roles bah

Axewaffle · May 2014

OkieDokie wrote: »

Zxaxz wrote: »

If you can't solo 3-4 mobs as a Single target DW NB, frankly you're doing it wrong.

http://www.twitch.tv/iamepitaph/b/531230213 (Made 1 hour after 1.1.2 patch)

GreasedLizard wrote: »

Zxaxz wrote: »

I can solo it all...Your NB must be broken, ask for a refund.

http://www.twitch.tv/iamepitaph/b/531230213 (Made 1 hour after 1.1.2 patch)

1 bar - 5 skills, 1 Ult.

What's the name of your buff bars add-on ?

S'rendarr - Aura and buff tracker (Sorry name wrong add-on before) very good customization, but you can Not move the top enemies bar as of yet.

Axewaffle wrote: »
Ive spent 180k on respecs trying to refine my dps, the highest single target I've managed to achieve is 720dps...

I can pull as shown in the video above, depending on the fight, mobs from 853500 DPS, lol level 50 Cyr 1 shot - But really - 500-1000 DPS depending on the lenght of the fight of course. So if you spent 180K to theory craft and could not get that at least, damn, sorry man. You can see my dps in the video above.....V7 DW NB

Well, I'm getting 700-1.1k in 5-6 pack enemies in a VR3 public dungeon with 1h/shield and I do think NB damage is not escalating as it should.

It is not about knowing how to play, NB needs improvement.

I think there is something wrong with combat response after the patch, I got frozen controls several times and concealed blades seems not be working properly too.

Despite my stance on nightblades being in a bad way right now, I think that their AoE dps is almost competitive, power extraction/sap combined with weapon aoe attacks (destro,dw,2h,bow) creates some really good synergy and sustained AoE dps. When the balancing comes to weapon and stam based builds you'll see Nightblade AoE follow suit, so there isnt much need to change anything on that front. Its the broken class skills, high magicka costs, low damage yield thats the problem our reliable single target abilities aren't even in the same ballpark as those of other classes, except maybe templar.

Frankly I would be fine without any buffs as long as the other two classes get knocked down a peg to our level, and our abilities to work correctly.

Aziz006 · May 2014

NB=Need Buff

Axewaffle · May 2014

Aziz006 wrote: »

NB=Need Buff

Someone else on the forum said it best earlier today.

Be right back need to take a big steaming nightblade.

and lets not forget his equally true/hilarious partner.

Its collection day, I need to take out the nightblade.

starkerealm · May 2014

OkieDokie wrote: »

I think there is something wrong with combat response after the patch, I got frozen controls several times and concealed blades seems not be working properly too.

I'm not sure what it is... something feels really off since the patch. I don't think it's actually lag, or a lockout... The refresh rate, or the FoV or something's different, and I'm getting slightly disoriented by the game, nothing feels quite right now. I'm really not sure what it is though.

esoone · May 2014

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast. Now some players have made some very unique modifications to their classes and excel in roles you wouldn't think about. But the hard and simple fact is that NB is meant to be a single target, glass cannon. Well we got the glass part, but where is our cannon?

I have leveled NB to VR10 using DW, and sometimes off spec'ing my bow on some bosses. Ambush, concealed weapons, and stealth are fine, but to be completely honest, after the initial strike, NB become almost useless. We have no real powerful attacks that even qualify us at assassins. Yeah mark target is ok but the weakness is tossed right back at us. The siphon skill line is ok but to be honest that screams mage to me, not assassin. In fact, the bow line is the only thing that I have ever seen that really makes a NB almost one-shot someone short of using Soul Shred from stealth (which, again... nerfed).

Long story short, you gave us *** skills for our class, and very little REAL survivability. You made ALL class skills rely on magic, but you were not consistent on how our damage scales. How is it that our main armor set boosts stamina regen, but we rely on magic?!? And screw weapon attacks and skills, those are not NB skills, they are weapon skills. On top of that, Blur is only for a 15% chance to dodge! That sounds more like a 2 skill point passive then an active skill. That is terrible! We have other near useless skills like Summon Shade, which isn't even a real summon, its just a debuff. Yes its true using something like healing paths and sap we can sustain our health and ive seen the video of the NB tank soloing tons of mobs, but most of us don't play that way. We are medium armor assassins with have no room on our bars for survivability AND damage.

You either need to A) completely overhaul our class (unlikely I know), or Seriously boost the damage output of the classic NB build. There is no need to boost any of the healing we have, we aren't meant to be healers, but our damage it nothing, single target or otherwise.

Now, the rest of the rant. (Spoiler alert, a lot of this has been said 1000 times)

ZOS... you give us a broken class on launch... ok fine, its a new game. This patch was supposed to fix some issues with our class, mainly passives... Well the passives you fixed are next to useless so no help there... You broke 3 skills in this patch... ok, first real big update, ill let that slide too.

I can let all of the above go ZOS, all of it. BUT ILL BE DAMNED, if you not only increase the difficulty of all the mobs in the veteran zones, almost giving them 50% more health AND damage output, but you have the gal to tell us that the NB fixes will come in 4-6 weeks?!?!? 4-6 weeks of a class that was barely holding it together solo as it was now having the added insult of MORE broken skills, against STRONGER monsters!!! You have literally made NB's almost useless, and more than a liability in ANY group content!

Ill be very frank here. You fix the NB issues ASAP. Not in 4-6 weeks, but as soon as you have a fix for an issue, you patch it. You listen to the players, and you respond to them more often! You explain to the players, WHY you decided to make the changes to vet content that you did with so much still broken, and you take into account player input on a class that honestly, needs a complete overhaul. After that you need to give out free one time respecs to all players to they can rebuild around the fixes and changes you have made. Offering respecs will not hurt your profits in anyway. this is yet another issue I have seen in forums over and over again yet I have not even seen a Dev get on and say anything about it.

And lower the mob strength until you get this stuff fixed!!!

Amen

frwinters_ESO · May 2014

I stopped reading cause I got to correct something here and maybe someone already said it. Before Skyrim, you had classes. Nightblade was one of those classes. The description of the Nightblade was basically a mage assassin. When you say siphoining is more like a mage, yes your correct! Thats what the nightblade is. Using magic to conceal there activities and kill there enemies silently. Able to sneak into the most secure locations in Tamriel, bypassing mundane and magical traps etc etc. Its straight from canon.

Chirru · May 2014

Zxaxz
4:35PM edited 5:04PM
"If you can't solo 3-4 mobs as a Single target DW NB, frankly you're doing it wrong."

Watched the video. It shows clearly that at best (pulling all tricks in the book) you struggle, and it showed also that the Char was dusted. So, where is the boast? The video shows you clearly and frankly are doing it wrong.

GreasedLizard · May 2014

Zxaxz wrote: »

If you can't solo 3-4 mobs as a Single target DW NB, frankly you're doing it wrong.

http://www.twitch.tv/iamepitaph/b/531230213 (Made 1 hour after 1.1.2 patch)

GreasedLizard wrote: »

Zxaxz wrote: »

I can solo it all...Your NB must be broken, ask for a refund.

http://www.twitch.tv/iamepitaph/b/531230213 (Made 1 hour after 1.1.2 patch)

1 bar - 5 skills, 1 Ult.

What's the name of your buff bars add-on ?

S'rendarr - Aura and buff tracker (Sorry name wrong add-on before) very good customization, but you can Not move the top enemies bar as of yet.

Thanks, will check it out!

Liquid_Time · May 2014

I will just continue to play and see how things pan out. I do find it sad that I must use the bow to increase my survival rate in both 1v1 (sneak attack) and ZvZ (behind the group avoiding hits)

Selodaoc · May 2014

Zxaxz wrote: »

If you can't solo 3-4 mobs as a Single target DW NB, frankly you're doing it wrong.

http://www.twitch.tv/iamepitaph/b/531230213 (Made 1 hour after 1.1.2 patch)

GreasedLizard wrote: »

Zxaxz wrote: »

I can solo it all...Your NB must be broken, ask for a refund.

http://www.twitch.tv/iamepitaph/b/531230213 (Made 1 hour after 1.1.2 patch)

1 bar - 5 skills, 1 Ult.

What's the name of your buff bars add-on ?

S'rendarr - Aura and buff tracker (Sorry name wrong add-on before) very good customization, but you can Not move the top enemies bar as of yet.

Axewaffle wrote: »
Ive spent 180k on respecs trying to refine my dps, the highest single target I've managed to achieve is 720dps...

I can pull as shown in the video above, depending on the fight, mobs from 853500 DPS, lol level 50 Cyr 1 shot - But really - 500-1000 DPS depending on the lenght of the fight of course. So if you spent 180K to theory craft and could not get that at least, damn, sorry man. You can see my dps in the video above.....V7 DW NB

I like your vamp and always using ulti when fighting more then 2 mobs and still almost getting killed. Got killed extremly fast without ulti aswell. Sorc and DK can just spam normal attack and get thosee mobs down in 1/5 of the time.

Corithna · May 2014

mips_winnt wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast.

Stopped reading there. Just because you can't think beyond the class name doesn't mean that Nightblades are exclusively a stealth-melee-DPS class. Nightblades make fantastic tanks and healers. And casters. And pretty much whatever you want.

Yeah because those of us that play Nightblades rolled a stealth based class so we could play as a tanks or healers but NOT a viable rogue DPS, makes sense to me.

Why the heck did they even include the Nightblade class in the game if all they were going to do was break all the "rogue" skills and force it to be played like one of the other classes?

Funny you say that. Wasn't it described for a very long while that the class system was just a starting point? Something to give the player viable options to help them along until they more fully develop their character? It is very true that there are both viable and nonviable builds in this title. But for the most part nonviable builds are ones that are not thinking things through to a viable solution. Personally I play the way that works for me on all four classes, they all feel very similar and work very well. Essentially I play a ranged burst single target dps and this translates very well to any setting in the game. Now admittedly some adjustments are needed for when I play in groups that are taking down larger single mob bosses. Specifically I need to adjust what I'm doing so I can put out consistent dps instead of burning all my resources within a few seconds.

Melee dps, for any class is naturally going to take more damage then ranged. This is an almost universal truth. When you couple this with the additional vulnerability offered up by light and medium armors it's natural that if you're both tanking and dpsing mobs (soloing) with this combination then yeah you're going to have difficulties. If you're going to be taking additional damage then you have to take steps to mitigate that damage and heal the damage you're taking. To do that you'll need the resources available to do so. And if you're keeping resources in reserve for mitigation/healing then you're not going to be an effective burst dps.

Aoe burst dps is something zenimax views as a problem and are actively working to take out of the game as it has been something players tend to exploit for speed leveling and is by it's very nature unbalanced when compared to other play styles. You can see evidence of this via the fact that health pools on mobs are increased while while magicka costs on what was a very spammable aoe ability on destro staffs got a cost increase. I'm sorry I've forgotten it's name atm as it's not one I use myself.

TL:DR Melee take more damage, ergo they need to look to mitigation/healing to boost survival rates at the cost of being able to burn all their resources as a burst dps.

joshisanonymous · May 2014

I'm frankly a bit surprised that there are so many people who relied exclusively on using Death Stroke from sneak for bursting. I've never even considered doing that, and I kill most VR1 mobs before getting past the 2nd ability in my 4 ability rotation. Actually, if they're not in heavy armor, I can generally do one basic attack just after an Ambush from sneak and they're dead. I rarely have trouble with groups of mobs without even switching bars, just by using Shadowy Disguise and Concealed Weapon intelligently to keep mobs locked down and unable to hit me. I think that's a key point, too. A lot of people are complaining about having to be magicka based and wear light armor.. I wear full medium armor and focus on magicka and stamina, leaving out health completely. It's a finesse class, you're not supposed to get hit in the first place. There's no reason why every build has to utilize health as one of it's two focus stats.

Of course, pulsar spamming sorcerers and DKs were able to just run into the mobs I was fighitng and shred the whole group much faster than I could. However, I don't believe AoE, nor sustained DPS, were ever supposed to be the focus of NBs. When it comes to single target bursting, I'd say I exceed any other class by a long shot. So the role I take in group play isn't to try to be AoE DPS, it isn't to sustain DPS either, it's to be smart about which mobs I target and get them out of the picture quickly. I target all those healers and archers that won't head into the AoE spam, or I target the mob that's currently causing problems for my healer, etc. I feel this makes dungeons go much smoother and it's actually a lot more fun to me than piling up and spamming AoEs. (For bosses, I just switch to bow and keep Marked Target up. I rarely get hit and their hit points drop much faster than they would otherwise. You're crazy if you think you're supposed to be a boss assassin, or if you think assassins would never use a bow.)

For solo play, I really could care less about the sorcerer or DK that can run through my groups of mobs, because I can get through single mobs considerably faster than them. So, groups of mobs, sure sorcerers and DKs are better, but a string of solo mobs, I can't imagine them getting through that faster than me when I'm two-shotting most of them.

I don't normally run DPS meters or anything like that, but I may even check my DPS next time I log in and report back here. Might take a while, though, since the new memory leak issue is making the game unplayable for me.

(BTW, another tip for keeping your DPS up when you have to engage in a long fight: make ample use of potions. You know why you can end up with 50 magicka potions after doing a single dungeon? Because you're supposed to be using them religiously.)

Turelus · May 2014

I'm playing a Nightblade tank and other than the lack of a good AoE CC spell it's been a blast and far more enjoyable then when I was trying the stealth based DPS role.

I seem to be enjoying VR content much more as a tank and having longer/slower fights but with more use of skills and timed blocking.

LunaRae · May 2014

Man so much hate from OP, seriously. When you come off so negatively I just want to disagree with you before even reading what you're saying. First of all, I disagree when you say class's lock you into a style of play (i.e. nightblade is glass cannon assassin). I've run tons of VR dungeons (fungal, banished, etc..) with three NB's, one dps glass cannon, one tank and one healer. Is it optimal, probably not. But it's doable, and without frustration. I hate hearing people say you can't play the way you want, because you can. You just need to be good enough to play the way you want. My only gripe, and it can be said for all classes to some extents, is the bugs with class abilities. My shadowy disguise is still breaking early, and sometimes it's not triggering at all now. That stuff is immensely frustrating, especially after a big patch like this. Was really hoping to see a ton of stuff cleared up, oh well...