nb stealth = op

Thejollygreenone · June 2014

Everyone keep in mind, the amount one can spam cloak out of combat and the amount one can spam cloak in combat is very drastically different. It seems that fact is being overlooked in many of these posts. Even full light armor magicka builders can't use the ability more than 5 times without bringing their magicka pool to useless levels (<20%) while IN combat, i.e. for escaping.

Of course anyone with some magicka investment can chain cloaks over long distances with some magicka pots as someone earlier suggested, but I'm near positive that's not the case when under the status of in-combat. At least it hasn't been for any caster NB I've faced in pvp.

Huckdabuck · June 2014

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

we nightblades are the weakest damage dealers and the easiest to be killed. our only escape from absolute DEATH is our invisibility! and you want that to be taken away from us? i think not!

Go to bed...you're drunk!

Huckdabuck · June 2014

Animus0724 wrote: »

BE actually needed a nerf especially with the stun it was doing on large groups. 1.5 second stun which could be blocked and in most cases is blocked as I've foundSorcs were running into groups spamming BE all over the place and stunning essentially up to 10+ players. Only 1 stun works at a timeThat combined with high AOE damage spells. Not a sorc specific ability at allSorcs also use light armor with mana regen passives.Everyone is using light armor but if you notice I also stated that BE has a 4 second penalty to magicka regeneration which resets with each use

NBs don't do that, our stealth is our opener and our escape as it should be with any stealth oriented class. BE can make the same pointWe can't stealth 20m away and break stun and stealth again. Our stealth is broken by our own heals and any enemy DoT laid on us. Our BE was counterable as well

Despite what you say it doesn't change the fact that BE spam was a thing and indeed was OP hence why it got nerfed. The only thing OP about BE was the fact that it was good for baddies to run away and *** off the melee who couldn't get that precious AP from them.It's easier to bolt in one direction than it is to stealth up and try to evade your enemy who is still right in front of you.
I'm guessing you never fight near rocks/bridges/keeps/resources/trees/or any of the other 600 things that can break LOS which makes a NB getting away that much easier?
Again NBs are already gimped to *** with other classes that can do everything we can do but better, and a buggy ass skill line. Nerf our stealth will definitely kill the nightblade class.
I also hate to tell you but I honestly hate that noise you guys make with the whooping crane/karate kid attack from stealth....I know that IF I can actually get off my knees and press 2 buttons that I'll be at about 15% health. Please don't tell me NBs are gimped to *** when you can drop someone below 20% health in less than 2 seconds when you gank out of stealth!

While replying to your comments above I think I came to the realization that I've had it wrong all along and should jump on the NERF THIS NERF THAT bandwagon and say that if BE needed a nerf then by all means your class needs one as well since they are both class defining to survivability. And while we're at it...nerf every DK and Templar as well. It's very easy to call something OP that isn't important to YOUR survival or playstyle. Objective versus subjective!!!!!

Huckdabuck · June 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

They're rogues. Get over it. They can't stand toe to toe against a light armor destro staff DK, so they play how they're meant to.

And sorcs couldn't either...but alas bye bye blinky blinky. They were just playing the sorcs how they were meant to! I mean come on guys you can't say OP this OP that but not call your own stuff OP. Just boggles the mind.

Huckdabuck · June 2014

SilentThunder wrote: »

The real problem here is the "Magic stacker" light armor NB this spec is currently (depending on your outlook) very strong or completely OP. I run a stam build Bow spec and its a lot of fun, but not even close to what the magic stackers can do dps wise. I can cast cloak 4 times if my magic is at full and 6 if I pop a pot with no points at all in magica. I would guess a full light armor magic stacking NB could likely use cloak 8-10 times. Being as I can usually get back into crouch stealth with the 4-6 cloaks I can get off im pretty shure some one who can cast cloak twice as much will have no problem getting hidden.
All that being said cloak is NOT the super get outa jail free card the OP seems to think it is. Detect hidden pots def work against it I use them all the time also piercing mark and its useless. Any light attack from staff wil instantly break it and ive had it just imeadeatly drop off more times than I can count.

And we have a winner....once again though I'd like to point out to all that this argument sounds vaguely familiar to something from a couple of weeks ago.

frwinters_ESO · June 2014

again i say lets just have light and heavy attacks for all characters. No abilities. all weapons do the same damage regardless of level. Then we are balanced.

Huckdabuck · June 2014

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

i do not think the maker of this thread knows what over powered means.
over powered means you do too much damage. i said it earlier and ill say it again...
"we nightblades are the weakest damage dealers and the easiest to be killed. our only escape from absolute DEATH is our invisibility! and you want that to be taken away from us?"

I said it before and I'll say it again......go to bed....you're drunk!

Huckdabuck · June 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

again i say lets just have light and heavy attacks for all characters. No abilities. all weapons do the same damage regardless of level. Then we are balanced.

And that's where we will eventually be and that's truly a sad, sad, sad thing.

Dudis · June 2014

Nevermind

DeLindsay · June 2014

Also I forgot there is a set bonus (4-set iirc) that increases your Stealth detection by 2 meters, that's another way to help you deal with stealthy types, NB or otherwise.

glitchmaster999 · June 2014

SilentThunder wrote: »

The real problem here is the "Magic stacker" light armor NB this spec is currently (depending on your outlook) very strong or completely OP. I run a stam build Bow spec and its a lot of fun, but not even close to what the magic stackers can do dps wise. I can cast cloak 4 times if my magic is at full and 6 if I pop a pot with no points at all in magica. I would guess a full light armor magic stacking NB could likely use cloak 8-10 times. Being as I can usually get back into crouch stealth with the 4-6 cloaks I can get off im pretty shure some one who can cast cloak twice as much will have no problem getting hidden.
All that being said cloak is NOT the super get outa jail free card the OP seems to think it is. Detect hidden pots def work against it I use them all the time also piercing mark and its useless. Any light attack from staff wil instantly break it and ive had it just imeadeatly drop off more times than I can count.

Totally agreed I got sick of stam being underpowered and respecced to nightstick, 60% spell crit without potions, 600 hps and sometimes over 900dps.....

My stamina build was lucky to get 450...

kijima · June 2014

I've got a full stealth set of medium purple VR6 armour that my VR8 nightblade is wearing. It gives you additional stealth range and gives increases to crit damage as well, perfect for stealth with bow but as my build is stamina heavy my bursts of 2.9 seconds ( I have a few buffs) of stealth eat magica up pretty quickly.

So, I've learnt to use my dodge roll effectively. I pick up some speed bonuses with the dodge roll too, so yeah stealth combined with dodge roll work well. When I'm not tired an on my game in PvP I can take down just about anyone 1v1 but more enemies than that and my build suffers badly and I suddenly become squishy. I've been able to use my stealth to get out of a hot area more than once, but when you get rooted to the ground (that seems to be the new black atm) stealth or not you get dead real quick.

I guess when ZOS said you can play the way you want, they were right. It's just that the builds are so sensitive to a play style.

A good stealthy ganker works well with my current build after my last respec, but then I don't watch videos of super tankers and think, hey I'll give that a go too!

You need to be reasonable and realistic in what you'd expect from your build and while you might have me pegged as one of those slippery stealthy players ( and you may well be right, let me tell you in trials I get owned, with mobs I get owned, and there are times I wish I was more tanky than I am, so I'm taking the good with the bad)

The problem with being very efficient at one particular play style is while you might be good at say ganking (and I'm okay at that if i do say so myself) my build doesn't work as well in other applications.

I like this particular play style, and while it may suck for a VR12 that has ridden his stamina horse half way across a quiet map to get his/her PvP on! only to get an arrow to the knee from a stealthy NB that is many levels below them, then yeah that sucks for you, but be assured the smile on my face is a mile long!

InvictoNZ · June 2014

Since everyone should be using 7 light, staff, and inner light... you should be able to see the NB, and kill them easy.

kijima · June 2014

InvictoNZ wrote: »

Since everyone should be using 7 light, staff, and inner light... you should be able to see the NB, and kill them easy.

So, you are telling everyone how they 'should' be playing the game? Hrmmmm....

I know I'm having a dig at you and doing it using a sarcasm which I don't mean to use in getting you to bite, even if it looks like it.

But then the way you see things means everyone should be wearing a dress, a funny hat and carrying a staff. That's not going to work for everyone as not everyone wants to wear a frilly light armour frock and carry a boomstick. (just so you know, ranged bow stealthed works just as well with you carrying your dolphin torch

)

There is a defense for every style of attack, a counter play style for any other play style. I think that's obvious for anyone that has done some time in Cyrodiil

Bloodvax · June 2014

Just give every class an escape ability and leave it at that. DK's can turn into a lizard or some thing and run away and templars can turn into a fire cloud and get away, YOU GET AN ESCAPE YOU GET AN ESCAPE! EVERYONE GETS AN ESCAPE!!!!

Cody · June 2014

Beedles wrote: »

Starshadw wrote: »

I would disagree. In fact, as I've previously said, if there is a version of stealth that is currently over-powered, it is the non-NB crouch-stealth. It is disconcerting that every single class can stealth almost as effectively as a NB. Yes, NBs do have an actual stealth skill (that only lasts 2.5 seconds and costs magicka). But that's rather the point - we're supposed to be the sneaky, stealthy class. In fact, if you think NBs have OP stealth, you should see what vamps (regardless of class) can do.

I'll just repeat what I said back in early May insofar as stealth is concerned:

Crouch-stealth for all classes is a part of the game, and we have to accept that.

That said, Zen could give the NB class more bonuses to the crouch-stealth:

further reduced stamina cost
greater stealth radius
complete and true stealth against resource/keep NPCs
ability to maintain stealth even when in a large group (see below)
stealth not broken on damage
stealth not broken if the character has a DoT
chance to not be seen, even by Magelight - note I said "chance," not 100%

and/or

add some penalties to crouch-stealth for non-NBs:

greater stamina cost
reduced stealth radius overall
further reduced stealth radius when in a group
inability to re-stealth during a siege once your stealth has been broken - this would deal with the issue of large parts of an army being stealthed. At the least, there should be a time period before you can re-stealth: 10 minutes, or completely leaving the area entirely (so if you're at a keep, you'd have to go out past the boundaries of the three resources and then come back)
stealth broken upon receiving damage (so an AOE always brings a non-NB out of stealth)

The one thing that I do think needs to be changed is the ability to crouch-stealth in heavy armor. That needs to go. Heavy armor should not allow for any sort of stealth at all - no NB Shadow/stealth skills, no crouch-stealth, nothing. Players should have to choose: the added protection of heavy armor, or the added protection of stealth. Not both.

post all the mumbo jumbo you want it takes 1 minute in pvp to see a NB use this skill and its a nb SKILL 2-3sec in and out of and can endlessly recast

"endless recast" the stealth skill, I assume you are referring to, costs AT LEAST 1/5 of the magicka bar, and that is if you have ALOT of magicka, on average it costs 1/4 of the bar, and is easily disrupted, sometimes it does not even work!
heck, its not like BE, which instantly ports you half a mile(exaggeration) the NB invisibility does not increase their speed, and if you pay attention to them, you can see what direction they plan to go once they are invisible, and still easily catch them

kijima · June 2014

Hrm, maybe something based on racials like Khajit turning into a kitten and running away scared.

Cody · June 2014

On the contrary, its a good thing NBs can use stealth this well, they are the STEALTH class, are they not? they are the assassins, or the ninjas, whatever you see it is. they are SUPPOSED to have these kind of debuff abilities. they are assassins! weakening and striking from the shadows should be their specialty!
heck, in fact, I think this should be expanded upon! the fact that a heavily armored DK can sneak just as well as a medium armored NB is completely ridiculous. Nb should be able too sneak better, than the other classes, at least that's what I think.

kijima · June 2014

^ Yup

Stealth is the one thing I love about my NB. I've dealt with the broken skills, pre-nerfed tree's and idiotic synergy, with all of those I still love my NB but stealth has been a huge saving grace for me.

TheBucket · June 2014

I can cast my Shadow Disguise forever. As long as im not using any other skills. I rarely ever die unless I get a dot on me thats bugged

Snit · June 2014

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

we nightblades are the weakest damage dealers and the easiest to be killed. our only escape from absolute DEATH is our invisibility! and you want that to be taken away from us? i think not!

I don't want it nerfed. As a sorc player, I think the Bolt Escape nerf was overdone -- it's nearly useless in its current form. And I also think that NB casters are moderately overpowered now. But I don't want it nerfed...

I'm just leveling a light armor, resto staff nightblade myself

Once he hits V12, my sorc's gear will fit him just fine!

Rylana · June 2014

It is really quite simple.

We, uh, kill the magelightman.

Eivar · June 2014

Stealth is so easily dealt with in this game it's ridiculous, magelight, detect potions, spamming aoes, delayed hit abilities, not to mention the bugs like getting stuck in combat with a mob that sees through stealth, dots that are supposed to get cleared by dark cloak morph, your own hots and dots breaking stealth. IMO after bug fixes the should consider having magelight not see through invis(stealth yes invis no), or maybe limiting the range of magelights see through invis to melee range, and bringing in the detect potions sight range a bit, as it currently stands anyone can be just as good as a nightblade in stealth, anyone who puts on medium armor is better than a nightblade at base.

Tintinabula · June 2014

Only time I get killed by NBs is when they attack in gangs and gang stab me...sounds fun..but its not

Eivar · June 2014

Tintinabula wrote: »

Only time I get killed by NBs is when they attack in gangs and gang stab me...sounds fun..but its not

Its even less fun for us, since we have to resort to those methods to actually kill people, if we don't want to wear light armor and use a staff.

Zubba · June 2014

Beedles wrote: »

there are NO counters to it mage light does not work nor does the potion so please stop posting this YOU CAN NOT SEE A STEALTH NB unless they are right next to you period.

I used magelight Before, it works great.

Now I use the potions, those are simply awesome. I sometimes waste like 30-50 a day. With bonuses/skills I detect stealth/invisible players at 26 meters. Do you really Think I would use em if it does not work?

SBR_QuorTek · June 2014

NBs are not OP, with a staff and a no point light armor setting there might be something, but it is not really skillfull to over DO or go into the paths of which should not be...

But if you play clever which cound for all classes you can do amazing stunts one way or another, if you just suck at everything you do... try and suck less and observe tactics from others and learn from those... time and practise is ones friend no matter which class you are... and alsi cab prove non-approved skill lines devestating good, as in mostof them are

Kajoh_Americano · June 2014

Beedles wrote: »

I would like to see someone look at NB stealth. it very frustrating that they are the only class that can tag you with a huge stackable debuff from stealth, then attack you kill you in three 1-2 sec (I am vt12 geared ) and stealth again DURING COMBAT and run away, you have no way of seeing them unless they are RIGHT next to you less then 2-3 meters if that.
yes stealth should be useable but not during combat and there has to be SOME skill NOT potion that detects them that every class should have access too or give every class a stealth ability like this also.
almost every NB is a ganker now that I run into and if they cant kill you out right they just stealth and run you have no way of catching them.

That's because the gankblade is an extremely viable solo roaming build for the NB.

Find me a build where I can cruise the country side solo on my horse/ or out of stealth and I will gladly give it a shot.

Also, most classes can run stealth burst build. The sorcs are really good at it from personal experience, and from what I hear from guildies dual wielding DKs are nothing to laugh at but they are admittedly rarer to come across.

Also it is one of the only aspect the DW NB really shines, and even then he really needs not to mess up his initial burst otherwise he better start running.

All you need to do with most gankblades is hold block when they start spamming their big hitters, pop a heal and then start rooting/ccing/fighting back...the nightblade will most likely be running on almost empty and desperately trying to get away.

TL;DR : OP needs to learn to block

davidetombab16_ESO · June 2014

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

we nightblades are the weakest damage dealers and the easiest to be killed. our only escape from absolute DEATH is our invisibility! and you want that to be taken away from us? i think not!

Go to bed...you're drunk!

if he is drunk you are an idiot

Morticielle · June 2014

Beedles wrote: »

(... too much text without any sense ...)

First let me tell you, that I play a Sorcerer as main, so I'm not biased toward NB.
Second, NB stealth is NOT overpowered in this game, on the contrary, they have the same weak stealth as every other class. The only exception is the 2.5 sec of stronger stealth they can cast (Shadow Cloak). In almost every other big mmorpg rogue classes have better stealth, have vanishing during the fight too and sometimes have debuff out of the stealth. So I don't see that NB stealth is op here.

What I can see is that you have obvious problems with this class and no concept at all to fight it. And you see lots of people calling many abilities of other classes 'op', so you join them and call NB stealth overpowered. My advice to you is to figure out a way to live with it or leave the game.

Btw: Which class are you playing?

P.S.: You could use Magelight which is available to all players. I use it and I see stealthers often long before they see me.

Edit: Killed some typos and now going to kill some Tyros ingame ...