Is ESO Breaking Basic MMO Genre 'Ground-Rules' With Main Story Forced Single-Player Boss Battles?
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Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭I went all the way up to vet10 zone with only gear i got from quests and drops , 0 craftted stuff.
I did the solo content without huge issues on my templar , while true , the game got crazy dif spikes from time to time.
I dont think said battles would really stop most players , still i do think it is a design error.
The game should not force solo content on its main lvling/questing path , just like it should not force groups either.
Since it forces people to do solo main quests AND forces people to group on craglorn to get vet11/12 , i would say they really need to improve on both ends."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor5 -
Sakibure✭✭✭I'm hardcore and find single-player-only battles in ESO do not damage the genre and easy to finish--what's the fuss.... single player only battle up against an overpowering boss that leads only to great frustration.
The one and only frustration is, that ZOS done with 1.1.4 an ultimate nerf to the worldbosses, dungeon bosses and the mainstory bosses. There is no chanllange anymore to kill worldbosses and mainstory bosses. It is kind of brain afk face rolling.
Dont kidding. The only way to be defeated against these bosses is to fight them without mouse and keyboard.
cu
Liebe Grüße,
Sakibure0 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO damaging to the genre and a game-stopper.
There are a lot of folks out there who were for years saying, "If I could play this TES game cooperatively with a partner, that would kick butt!"Nox_Aeterna wrote: »The game should not force solo content on its main lvling/questing path , just like it should not force groups either.
Then to be happily grouping content in ESO only to suddenly see a ^ where the partner was supposed to be was truly a "What the ..." moment for most of those players. Think ZeniMax really missed the mark on that one.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"2 -
ozgod22_eso✭✭✭I'm hardcore and find single-player-only battles in ESO do not damage the genre and easy to finish--what's the fuss.I don't think it's damaging to the genre, because over the past few years MMOs have been trying to cater for solo players. Look at WoW with its dailies hubs, solo scenarios and other things designed to keep solo players playing. I'm probably not alone in being in a segment of gamers that started out with lots of free time to play and do group content and spend 10 hours raiding each week but over the years I've gotten too busy to invest that time to have to wait for groups to form to get things done. So I don't think having more solo stuff is bad.
That said, I do agree that "forced" solo play limits flexibility. You should always have the option to group up if needed. I know they did those solo quests for the immersion folks who will cry blue murder if they "see another person in an epic quest disrupting my roleplay and immersion of being the Dovakhiin etc".
Given the history of ES games immersion and roleplay is a big part of the franchise. But what would be good is if they made it an option not a prerequisite. It's annoying to be unable to help friends (especially those who play casually) through some of the harder single player content in the game. The hardcores will say "but but but ESO is zomgwtfpwn ezmode why do u need someone to help u with these faceroll quests" well some people do struggle. I've found the game easy myself but some of my more casual friends have found some of the solo content challenging and I would like to be able to group with them.
It's frustrating to watch friends be unable to finish quests and quit the game because you can't help them, or be playing with your wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend and be unable to help them through some of the solo content because for storyline purposes you are supposed to be the only Vestige in the whole ESO world and so nobody can help you.
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GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO damaging to the genre and a game-stopper.
Okay, but do you know of any other AAA MMO that forces solo-only play for the main quest-line?ozgod22_eso wrote: »I don't think it's damaging to the genre, because over the past few years MMOs have been trying to cater for solo players. Look at WoW with its dailies hubs, solo scenarios and other things designed to keep solo players playing. I'm probably not alone in being in a segment of gamers that started out with lots of free time to play and do group content and spend 10 hours raiding each week but over the years I've gotten too busy to invest that time to have to wait for groups to form to get things done. So I don't think having more solo stuff is bad.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO of no consequence to the genre and keep playing.I guess they just nerfed Castle of the Worms, which is probably a decent step; that one seems to be one that most of us have hit our noses against glass with, at least for a couple of levels.
If it was made groupable, the difficulty would only get buffed, to keep the teams from complaining things went down too fast. Then grouping would become effectively mandatory, and that would suck balls.
I'm more irked when I'm forced to group for some quest I should be able to do myself. I much prefer "packing" than formal grouping.
Edited by isengrimb16_ESO on June 17, 2014 3:24AM0 -
Katarina✭✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO of no consequence to the genre and keep playing.I prefer it to be an option rather than something forced upon players though. If the player wants to co-op it with their friends or others then the quest should open up an instance for the group + scale the npcs/bosses numbers and stats accordingly.1 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO of no consequence to the genre and keep playing.ESO is not damaging but saving the MMO genre, RPG in other MMOs is nearly extinct.
As for VR leveling it would actually be amazing if we could continue our hunting Daedra story there. (I dont mind how long it takes, just give me a normal story, not some halucination memory, which won't matter when I wake up, because I changed nothing).Edited by Bloodfang on June 17, 2014 3:58AM0 -
Transorb✭✭
And where does it say that on the package? Where does it say that in the reviews? Does the package or the reviews even mention that all boss battles including in the main story line will be challenging single-player only battles not designed for the common MMOG expecting group help?Zenimax said from the beginning they were not targeting the majority of MMORPG players. If you look at the ES series of games, they are all single player - geared toward RPG gamers.
There are no ground rules to break when it was known from the beginning that this game would be different from MMO's. That, to be honest, is the entire purpose of the game. They would not have intended to make another warcraft, or nwn, or any other MMO for that matter.
If they wanted to make just another MMO, they would have failed miserably. I think the game is great. If you want PVE - its there. If you want PVP - its there. It offers experiences for both types of players.
What I AM sick of, is people complaining relentlessly that it isn't like warcraft, or their class is imbalanced. Complaints, to some degree, are what ruin the game.
People that nitpick and claim that ESO isn't like the game they used to play is the real problem.
I doubt very seriously ZOS would have failed miserably at all and certainly not as miserably as they already are failing, if they had held to the MMO convention of allowing open or private groups in any of the main story line so that no one would end up like I have several times where I can't figure out how to make a kill. All it would mean as in most all situations in the game as it means now is that someone could kill a boss solo if they so desired and had the skills and technique or someone could find a group to help if they were frustrated and failing.
It seems to me that all ZOS and hardcore want is to punish the casual gamer. Hand in hand with that it's clear now that "casual" means different things to different gamers. It would appear in ESO that I'm below casual? Are 'beginner' or 'newbie' better?
There are plenty of solo dungeons, public dungeons, 4 man group dungeons, 24man dungeons, vette dungeons - there are a multitude of options appealing to many types of players. Argument invalid.
Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I would like to now point out the ownership of Zenimax, which perhaps may provide some insight to why Zenimax acts the way they do. They are not in the business to make video games. Plain and simple. They are the walmart of video games. I was extremely disapointed to learn Zenimax was heading the ESO build.
Lets take a look at the chairmen and advisors of Zenimax Media:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeniMax_Media#Corporate_governance
Owned by donald trump's brother, cal ripken junior (ex baseball player), the ex CEO of disney, a CEO of a mexican newspaper, CEO of lionsgate entertainment (movie company), and the list goes on. What do you expect?
I am surprised the game came out as awesome as it did. I had no hope for this, and it was the reason I bought consoles. It was the reason I built a computer - the Elders Scrolls series was my pride and joy - I had to try it. Considering who is making the calls - I am impressed how this game has developed in the 3 months it has been out.
It isn't ruined, it has been from the start what they claimed it would be. A cross between PVP MMORPS and PVE RPGS: The first of its kind: Hybrid. If you weren't aware of the intentions behind the creation of the game and what it was made to be, then that is your fault for not doing your research.
The game is great, plain and simple. If you don't like doing solo dungeons, then don't do them.0 -
Shiroro✭✭✭I'm hardcore and find single-player-only battles in ESO damaging to the genre and upsetting.Forced soloing makes casuals quit. Period.
You need casuals to make money with an MMO unless you offer something completely unique.1 -
Lalai✭✭✭✭I'm hardcore and find single-player-only battles in ESO do not damage the genre and easy to finish--what's the fuss.So I accidentally picked the wrong option. I should have picked "I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO of no consequence to the genre and keep playing.".. instead I picked the hardcore one cause I misread (I didn't see the option for casual plus being okay with it).
Annnyway. I don't mind forced single player battles. That being said, I don't think they should be a part of the main story line. Single player battles, sure.. but not forced ones. Preferably all the forced group, or forced solo, content in a game would be kept completely optional.Fisher extraordinaire!
Send me your worms, crawlers, guts, and insect parts.
Templar Healer
Daggerfall Covenant, NA0 -
Theosis✭✭✭✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO damaging to the genre and a game-stopper.I just feel that MMOs should feel like an MMO. I love this game but a few things do bother me.
Mannimarco, Molag Bal, those fights were not fun for me. I had to research. Fine whatever.
In the main quests of a MMO... say again.. MMO.. you can not have the help of your friends. Why call it an MMO when you cant get help on the most important quests in the game?This is were my signature would be if I was allowed one.0 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO damaging to the genre and a game-stopper.n/tEdited by RatsnevE on June 18, 2014 9:39PM1 -
phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My thoughts; the personal story should be a separate entity & not be a road block to hitting veteran levels - or a player only has to do it once, meaning any alts do not need to go through the story over & over again.
Cannot be bothered having to fight Mannimarco & Molag Bal with five different characters which for me means only one of my five will ever be veteran (I know, my choice).Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)2 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO damaging to the genre and a game-stopper.n/tEdited by RatsnevE on June 18, 2014 9:39PM0
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RatsnevE✭✭✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO damaging to the genre and a game-stopper.n/tEdited by RatsnevE on June 18, 2014 9:40PM0
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AinGeal✭✭✭I'm hardcore and find single-player-only battles in ESO do not damage the genre and easy to finish--what's the fuss.Forced soloing makes casuals quit. Period.
You need casuals to make money with an MMO unless you offer something completely unique.
Not true at all. Casual players are more likely to solo simply because forming a group and actually completing a dungeon with that group takes time. Time a casual doesn't have, that's why they are "casual". Between waiting for tanks/healers and people rage quitting the group for various reasons (can't beat it first try, doesn't like another person's setup, etc.), a casual wants to simply log in, play and actually achieve things with the little time they have.
You add in the fact that the TES games are all single player games, ESO's player base draws heavily from that fan base. For some of them, this is their first MMO. So to be able to play the game solo, like the TES games, is comforting.
Granted, I think too many have made use of mods and cheap mechanics and so they have become reliant on crutches that don't exist in ESO.
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phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)0 -
soulclaw✭✭✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO damaging to the genre and a game-stopper.When I am playing as part of a regular team I don't like being split up, my support characters are often not up to the demands of a solo boss and it ends up forcing me to take time to re-work my build and equipment when I was happy being a support character and part of a team. Too much of this will push me away from the game.Sweetie, can you show us on the doll where the bad man from Blizzard touched you?0 -
I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO of no consequence to the genre and keep playing.The genre has shifted so much in the last few years, who the heck knows what it really is today. ESO should do its own thing - the hell with any rules.0
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wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭Forced soloing is a terrible idea, and I've canceled my account (mainly) because of it. I refuse to pay 15 dollars a month for a single player game with some borked teaming built in because "MMOs have teaming or something, right?"
The current system of solo boss quests for major quest lines and the guild/main story lines is fine. Why? Because requiring it to be done solo requires the player to put in a certain amount of effort into learning your class/skill abilities and gearing your character.
One benefit is that requiring certain quests to be done solo is it cuts down on bots. Bot runners have to spend more time trying to get into the VR ranks because they have to run each character through the main quest line. That's probably a big reason why there aren't many bot herders in VR zones and why Craglorn wasn't inundated with bot herders when it opened a few weeks ago.0 -
Wait why would the story missions being solo matter?
GW2 had a solo story campaign as well. Didnt hurt it one bit. Well except the story missions themselves where atrocious compared to the ones in ESO but still.
No, the problem with ESO is consistency. The phasing sometimes make it so that quest1 part A is multiplayer, but quest1 part B is group instance. But you dont know that. Because people will go "aawww I dont see what you see, *** this!" before even reaching the possible group instance (often boss room).0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭People need to feel a sense of achievement for finishing the main story line quests. They have to be reasonably difficult. If ZoS scale the difficulty so that any random combination of skills and gear is enough then more would leave the game than would leave because its too difficult I think.
A lot of time and effort has gone into designing skills and abilities that have synergy so I have to believe ZoS intended you to think and work out what works.
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Belitseri✭✭✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO of no consequence to the genre and keep playing.I'm a forced casual now... I did MB on my 2h/med armor stamina build (at the time) Templar. I did it on my Sorceror. I guess I'm at a loss to understand why MB was so hard for people. On my Templar I was all amped up for the fight! At first, I tried to dps him, then healed like mad, then ran... THAT worked, so I ran around, blocked, swatted MB before running around again and using heals. On my Sorceror, I literally did the same thing, minus healing. No pets, nothing on my bar but 1 dps skill and the rest healing skills. I conserved my magicka because I was worried I would need it, and only used the resto staff attack when I was far enough away. I literally used nothing on my skill bar. I didn't find it difficult at all to beat him, I just found it tiring. I felt like I was doing a running marathon on a running track lol. One lap... two laps... three laps... After a while, I kinda was zoned out and once he knelt, I kept running until I saw he wasn't after me. I literally thought at first that he got tired and was taking a rest before my brain kicked in (it was 2am lol). I'm not belittling anyone at all, I'm sure not the gods gift to gaming, I'm average at best... but because it was so very easily accomplished, it does make me wonder!Edited by Belitseri on June 18, 2014 8:53AM0 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭I'm casual and find single-player-only battles in ESO damaging to the genre and a game-stopper.n/tEdited by RatsnevE on June 18, 2014 9:40PM0
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Phantorang✭✭✭✭I'm hardcore and find single-player-only battles in ESO do not damage the genre and easy to finish--what's the fuss.I believe the Red and Yellow are the ones who quit the game. If you posted this Poll a couple of weeks after launch, they would be ALOT higherFimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
This is still totally wrong--sorry.wrlifeboil wrote: »The current system of solo boss quests for major quest lines and the guild/main story lines is fine. Why? Because requiring it to be done solo requires the player to put in a certain amount of effort into learning your class/skill abilities and gearing your character.
One of the best moves my NB has is the sneak attack where she can often do 1-hit kills on 'normal' NPC foes--but NEVER on a boss and I proved that several times over and over and over and over and over...and over today in a run of the mill dungeon quest in Elden Hollow. The whole party failed miserably too and probably for good reason because there was no organization or care taken to having several different classes.
I also revisited a couple other quests requiring forced boss battles and taking out a big chunk of health--not even a 1-hit kill--never happened with either boss. My NB doesn't need respec'ing--it needs fixing on bosses! Or rather the bosses need to accept critical strikes from the NB's sneak attack.
I'm quitting until this is resolved fully. I'm not even going to start a new character in another alliance until this gets sorted out by ZOS fairly--because there just isn't any more fun in it for me. All I have left are private dungeons and forced solo boss battles in AD and on top of that because of Vet 1 my ultimate won't charge and there's no experience gain for farting around in AD.
Besides all the interest in continuing through other virgin areas of the game the fact of the matter is from a story adventure point of view the solo game really ends when you get your soul back. You don't have to play anymore; you can watch a video of the last battle and see Molag Bal get halved by you and your soul returned to.
You have just disproved your own point by admitting that you are only using a small part of your toons abilities. That is what makes the difference. You cannot expect the bar you have at level 20 to still work at vet 12. If you become fixated with a limited choice of skill you will fail. Even the same bar wont work for all the encounters in vet levels. You need to have different set ups to suit each encounter. You are given more tools as you level into vet content but not necessarily more powerful tools. You have more choice and you are expected to use it. This is the main reason people are struggling.Edited by Hilgara on June 18, 2014 10:23AM0 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭I honestly do not understand this poll, and therefore, wonder if others, like me, have not voted on it.
As I understand it, the OP seems to be saying, if you are casual and find the solo fights too hard you think the game is breaking the genre. If your hardcore, and can do it then it isn't.
None of that represents me at all.0
