VAMPIRE NERF WAS TOO MUCH!!!

Horos · May 2014

Hi guys, i think that the vampire nerf was too strong. Some argue that you could stack ulti cooldown to a point where it only costs 4 ulti, but you can only achieve that if you are a mage and use a useless Akavari Dragonguard Set which is not even craftable.
It was op that you get 60% skill cost reduction, but now it is 21% which is to weak compared to all the weakness you get.They should at least give 10% for 1 stage of vampirism. If not 13% because now they can be killed too easily and if you are not a mage it's basically useless. Do you agree or not?

Sunrock · May 2014

Think the main problem with the vampire right now is all the bugged passive skills.

ForTheRealm · May 2014

I am also of the opinion that the source of the problem was Ultimate stacking achieved by combining Vampire, Akaviri and Sorc (and only bit less DK) abilities.
Unfortunately developers nerfed the whole Vampire skill line, instead of addressing the Ultimate stacking.
And yes, the final nail to the coffin ;-) is the consistently Passive failures, solved to some point by frequent reloging...

Nox_Aeterna · May 2014

Sunrock wrote: »

Think the main problem with the vampire right now is all the bugged passive skills.

Pretty much this.

To begin with , since it is so bugged , most dont even notice the difference , cause they never had a chance to see it working at 60%.

Phoenix99 · May 2014

No, it's fine, move along, learn to play and manage your resources.

That said, they need to fix bugs there.

PurpleFox · May 2014

Hheheheh! You vamps got off easy! WW's cant even use powers anymore! The devour time is completely *** up XD

WhitePawPrints · May 2014

I never ran into a Vampire player until I became a guest in the Wabbajack Campaign. Right now it is the most active campaign but I managed to get in before it became consistently full each night. In my first few days, before the free month was over, I fought against the overwhelming Pact numbers. The campaign was a lot of fun because there was the constant state of tug-of-war between the three factions and keeps.

However, when my faction was playing tug-of-war between an outpost and a keep, there was a consistent player. Veteran Rank 10 Vampire Dragonknight. I was Veteran Rank 1 at the time. With two full groups of near 40 players, we were pushing back the Pact in the open field. While we slaughtered most of the straggler Pact soldiers, there was that one Vampire surrounded by over 25 players, surviving, killing, winning. With the shield buffs, no Crowd Control abilities worked. With overlapping Bat Swarms, life went up faster than the damage of over 25 combined players. With shield charge, there was no way to keep distance to negate the effect of the bat swarms. Sure, we all kept our distance but the bat swarm radius is so large that one shield charge would catch at least five of us in it. The only way we killed this player was after we killed the rest of his team and the remaining 20 players in the area also targeted this one Vampire, and that was only possible through the extensive use of Silver Bolts from multiple players.

If you seriously think that the Vampire FIX, not even a nerf on Vampire Swarms, was too much, then you throw all balance into the wind. Cost reduction of the Ultimate is not even a concern; I could care less if they made it zero, as long as it is not stackable and had a proper cool down.

Vampire is still broken in other ways that need more attention, but I hope that eventually they will fix it so that a full skill Fighter Guild member (and a full skill Werewolf) can go toe to toe with a full skill Vampire.

Mist form was more of a nerf, but a well-needed nerf considering the speed of Elder Scroll wielders.

Hail_Sithis · May 2014

The strength of being a vampire is the passive abilities. Stop whining.

Sylinias · May 2014

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Vampire is still broken in other ways that need more attention, but I hope that eventually they will fix it so that a full skill Fighter Guild member (and a full skill Werewolf) can go toe to toe with a full skill Vampire.

WW has a LONG way to go before we can even think along these lines.

Ravinsild · May 2014

Sylinias wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Vampire is still broken in other ways that need more attention, but I hope that eventually they will fix it so that a full skill Fighter Guild member (and a full skill Werewolf) can go toe to toe with a full skill Vampire.

WW has a LONG way to go before we can even think along these lines.

You come across a vampire...RRRAAAAAWWWWRRR you transformed into a ferocious beast, slavering jaws and claws for ripping flesh when suddenly....Drain Essence.

***. Now I literally can't do anything....okay, good, it just ended, oh ***. They just stunned me agai-- nope. I'm dead. GG.

dr_zed · May 2014

Shut.The.F.Up.

WhitePawPrints · May 2014

Sylinias wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Vampire is still broken in other ways that need more attention, but I hope that eventually they will fix it so that a full skill Fighter Guild member (and a full skill Werewolf) can go toe to toe with a full skill Vampire.

WW has a LONG way to go before we can even think along these lines.

Unfortunately, that is very true. That is my hope though.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO · May 2014

Ravinsild wrote: »

Sylinias wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Vampire is still broken in other ways that need more attention, but I hope that eventually they will fix it so that a full skill Fighter Guild member (and a full skill Werewolf) can go toe to toe with a full skill Vampire.

WW has a LONG way to go before we can even think along these lines.

You come across a vampire...RRRAAAAAWWWWRRR you transformed into a ferocious beast, slavering jaws and claws for ripping flesh when suddenly....Drain Essence.

***. Now I literally can't do anything....okay, good, it just ended, oh ***. They just stunned me agai-- nope. I'm dead. GG.

learn to use Rapid manuever before you go into WW form baddie bad mcbadderston.

dr_zed · May 2014

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

learn to use Rapid manuever before you go into WW form baddie bad mcbadderston.

And don't attack right? Because if you do, you break the RM and get drain essenced anyways.

rumpelsteel · May 2014

id say, lets wait for the passives to actually work before deciding.

also gimme mist form back

Sonja · May 2014

I agree that the Vampire nerf was too much.......Especially mist form and its standing cost now.

Jarnhand · May 2014

No unkilable batswarm sergs in Cyrodiil + almost no vamp bite selling spam = I am good

Memnock · May 2014

Jarnhand wrote: »

No unkilable batswarm sergs in Cyrodiil + almost no vamp bite selling spam = I am good

One of your problems with the vampire skill line is that the people were selling the bites to earn some gold ? Really ?! Really ?! I mean , i agree that the bat swarm thing needed to be toned down , but seriously , if seeing zone chat with vamp bite sellers is a thing for you , then why don't you simply put those people on ignore.

Also , you may be ok with the changes , but the people who actually play as a vampire got screwed and , again , i am not talking about the bat swarm thing , i am talking about the Vampiric Drain skill that was affected by the nerf , along with Mist Form , which has one morph that is completely pointless ( Poison Mist does not tic for the damage that it should ) and another that has been reduced in potency , but retained its cost , not to mention the fact that people can still CC and root you with Mist Form up , through Tab Target.

So 2 active skills that got dragged into the nerf without being looked at , coupled with passives that don't work if you get killed or zone out , and you need to relog or zone again to get them going again and add to that the feeding is still bugged and i still notive that i use the skills with full magicka cost instead of a 21% reduction that i should get @ stage 4.

If you got ganked by a baboon who spammed Bat Swarm in Cyrodiil a while back , please don't think that everyone does the same thing and try to think of the rest of the skills and passives that come with a world skill line before saying you are happy with the changes they made , since the skill line is not played only by exploiters or bite sellers.

A lot of vampires aren't happy with the changes that affected the 2 actives and with the lack of any fixes on the bugged passives.

Jarnhand · May 2014

Several if not all classes got buged skills, NB being the worst. Vamps are not even a class, its a template on top of the class. So fixing vamp skill bugs should be far below fixing classes bugs, in priority. Sure it sucks its bugged, but its not the only skills that are.

And yes the vamp abuse/exploits needed to go away, should have never gone live, it was a disgrace for the game, it was ruining Cyrodiil, it was a clownbin of bat swarms just before the nerf hit. And ESO PvP was becoming a laugh on the internet how stupid it was due to broken vamps (+ all the other problems to boot), and this is something you do not want for a new MMO.

Of course you are not happy, none likes to be hit by the nerfbat (has happened to me many times in DAoC, more severe then this). And no I do not know the logic behind the skills that got nerfed, that you have to ask Zenimax about. What I can tell you is that something needed to be done, and now the vamp spam/abuse is gone. And Cyrodiil is A LOT more balanced and enjoyable. Now just what remains is nerfing emperor and balance/fix classes, and we will have a SUPER game! A game that will live for many years, with regular new content and focus and dedication from Zenimax. If they do it right and get a good end game/balanced PvP, it can maybe even live as long as DAoC.

And about vamp bite selling;
1) its lame, people spaming zone with selling vamp bite, and it get old fast, and no you do not want to ignore all the people doing it, they are normal players
2) vampirisme and werewolf is a CURSE, so selling it in zone is as lore breaking/stupid as it gets, its just a gimmick that should not have been in the game, but Zenimax wanted the game to be special. Problem is this feature made the game special all right, but in a lorebreakingly lame way

Memnock · May 2014

I am not disputing the fact that several classes are bugged and NBs have a but load of skill lines that don't work in fact i completely agree with you on this , up until a point , but i do not think the vampire skill lines should be on the back burner just because of this issue , it should actually be in line with fixing the class , since the world skill lines , is part of the game and saying that the people who want to play as vampires should take a back seat to the classes would frustrate people even more considering the fact that the bugs about the vampire skill line were a known issue is Beta , so a good few months before the game officially launched , i am sure that the NB stuff was known as well but its still here , live and nothing has been done on that front.

With regards to the Bat Swarm Exploit , i don't have anything to say , since i already mentioned that i wasn't talking about this ultimate , i completely agree that the nerf was needed , but what i don't like is the fact that because of the pressure of fixing a bug with 1 skill that some baboons were exploiting the hell out of , they hastily nerfed everything else in 1 fell swoop , with the change to feeding ( a passive that is still broken even now btw ) , without taking into consideration the other skills , like Drain Essence , a spell that no one complained about being OP , and without addressing the broken passives that stop working after a death or an instance change. The abuse is now gone , like you said , but the aftermath of the "fix" has left the players who want to go about the game as a vampire with a bad taste.

I am not arguing the fact that something needed to be done. What i have a problem with , is the fact that they went about it the wrong way and without any thought on the ramifications that the nerf they implemented would have on the other skills from the skill line.

As an example of their way of thinking , you may want to check how they are dealing with the caltrops bug that is now becoming the new exploit in Cyrodiil . A bug that is crippling the siege mechanics and that is now a wide spread thing , is being fixed AFTER they release Craglorn , so 2+ weeks...
Link to the thread here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99434/let-s-just-say-it-friendly-caltrops-negate-siege-damage#latest

This is not the way you do things , you can't just rush into fixes without thinking of the ramifications or take an extremely long time to get around them. And again the vampire bugs are something that was reported since Beta , so a few months before the damn game launched . Its no wonder people are saying that we are now in paid beta.

As a last note , with regards to the vamp bite selling , i don't know what to say , i mean , you don't want to ignore them because they are normal people , but at the same time , you don't want them to spam WTS and make some cash , seems like there is a bit of a conflict there

And about the Vamp and Wolf being a curse, to be perfectly honest i see it as a dark blessing

and the fact that you can give it to others adds flavour to the game , also , since this is a MMO , you can't be super strict with lore and stuff , since player actions are not actually part of the lore , also since there are no dedicated RP servers , you will meet a but load of people who either have some wierd names, like OFMGKILZORBUTMACE or some people who start emoting random stuff , that breaks your RP experiance and so on . The point here , is that this is not a single player game , where the environment is free of other players interaction , and if something bothers you , you should just ignore it , or disable the feature that allows you to see the aggravating people.

smercgames_ESO · May 2014

Mist form hasn't even been on my bar since the mighty swing of the nerf bat that nerfed things that didn't need nerfing. I simply can't afford the skill even in stage 4.

Drain Essence doesn't make the cut for PvP either because of all it's drawbacks. It stays for PvE cause it's still pretty stupid strong there but damn the cost reduction being nerfed too.

I still get way to many standards dropped on me by DKs so the problem of spamming ults is still around due to ult reduction and gains so good job fixing not fixing the problem

ZiRM · May 2014

Nerf ESO right into F2P! DK next and then please make the loot system even worse because your walking on egg shells for the Bots.

Sharakor · May 2014

What a horrible move on ZOS's part, this nerf was terrible in every way, it appears as if they didn't even think it through.

Memnock · May 2014

Well at i can say that at least we are getting our passives fixed when 1.1.2 hits live , which if i'm not mistaking is happening tomorrow

So at least that is a step in the right direction so here's hoping that patch 1.1.3 will contain additional fixes for the skill line

Horos · May 2014

Guys vampire cost reduction of skills on vampire stages is not working for me. Craglorn didn't do ***. What about you guys?

Memnock · May 2014

Nothing at all , passives and feeding stages still buged , really disappointed with the devs

The fixes they promised did not do anything.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

Well, feeding stage seems to be fixed now. Have been stage 4 for a while and the reduction hasn't dropped off when dieing or changing areas yet. Seems to been ninja fixed in one of the latest patches.

But... I too think that Vamp weakness to pretty much all players taking the fighters guild trait and fire damage is a bit much for the reduction cost nerf.

Mind you this nerf took effect before I got vampire, and I am glad bat swarm got fixed. They just have 0 benefit whatsoever of not being in stage 4. The little bit lost health reduction is really not a big deal compared to losing cost reduction and still having all 50% of increased fire damage and 9% increased damage from other players who have the trait (which is everyone). Being lower than stage 4 is doing nothing but adding to your weakness. There needs to be better increasing benefits and penalties for the stages, and fire damage should NOT be +50% on all stages.

I suppose the cost reduction is nothing if you only have vampire for the passives and don't use the 2 abilites, but then there isn't much reason to be a vampire at all. I don't notice myself dieing any slower with undeath (probably because its not a static 50% damage reduction ones you drop below 50% hp), 10% increased magica and stamina recover is Ok but not really grand, and dark stalker is probably the only really good thing about vampire.

Feed sneak attacks on players is pointless, and Drain essense can be CC broken before the effect ends, both making them immume to drain essense early and CC immune...

Still needs some work and balancing. Same with WW... But hey, being vampire is fun to say the least, if you don't mind being hunted easier than you hunt others.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

Also...

Elusive mist nerf I don't really have a problem with... What I do have a problem with is how weak poison mist turned out to be. The tooltip originally said it dealt poison damage every 1/2 second. I took that because I didn't want to be an evader, but wanted to use it offensively. While using it, it turned out I only got 3 tics of poison damage out of it, then they later change the tooltip to read poison damage every 1.5 seconds. Sorry ZoS but that morph is way too weak and SHOULD have been every 1/2 second to even remotely be usable over elusive mist because of the magica cost. Better to spend ~440 magica escaping rather than ~440 magica doing some weak damage.

Didn't even bother refunding the skillpoint after making the tooltip say what the skill actually did. thanks for nothing.

Drachdhar · June 2014

I have played a vampire for a long time, considering the time this game has been out that is, never abused the bat swarm... Hell didnt even know about it until I hit veteran and went to Cyrodiil.
And for the life of me, I had trouble figuring out how they did it... Mind you, I played a NB vampire so pretty much doubly screwed. My vamp skills basically was always at stage 1 costs since death and loading screens reset the costs.

So what has the "fix" done... We got rid of most of the bat swarmers, I still see it sometimes... Mostly DKs and Sorcs. Nerfed Elusive Mist into uselessness, high cost, no CC immunity and barely a speed buff. Poison Mist never was a decent choice anyway IMO, low dmg, high cost...
The cost reduction still does not work properly, and neither does the passives in some cases... At least Darkstalker works now, although that came later.

Invigorating Drain is still pretty decent... Mostly useless for PvP though, since 99.9% of all players know how to CC break. Rejoice the day I find a transformed werewolf though, easiest kill ever :P

indigoblades · June 2014

Drachdhar wrote: »

I have played a vampire for a long time, considering the time this game has been out that is, never abused the bat swarm... Hell didnt even know about it until I hit veteran and went to Cyrodiil.
And for the life of me, I had trouble figuring out how they did it... Mind you, I played a NB vampire so pretty much doubly screwed. My vamp skills basically was always at stage 1 costs since death and loading screens reset the costs.

So what has the "fix" done... We got rid of most of the bat swarmers, I still see it sometimes... Mostly DKs and Sorcs. Nerfed Elusive Mist into uselessness, high cost, no CC immunity and barely a speed buff. Poison Mist never was a decent choice anyway IMO, low dmg, high cost...
The cost reduction still does not work properly, and neither does the passives in some cases... At least Darkstalker works now, although that came later.

Invigorating Drain is still pretty decent... Mostly useless for PvP though, since 99.9% of all players know how to CC break. Rejoice the day I find a transformed werewolf though, easiest kill ever :P

i agree .... Lately my cost reduction is staying after i switch zones so its not bugged for me. but i found drain essence and the bat ultimate a lot less effective in VR play. Did anyone drop the vamp skill line and find it easier (in VR i require 2 to 3 purple fire enchants and 1 of my two 2 armor matched sets needs to boost my HR. Cant help but wonder if if those jewerly enchants where spell reductions and i could wear some matched set that did damage .... if i would do better. I dont play much pvp........... not knocking pvp i just dont have the attentions span to spend 5 mins traveling to get to then action then dieing lol.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

I find pve easier as a vampire. You dont have to worry about NPC's CC breaking your drain essence, and its a good stun/stamina recovery. Pretty good in PvE as long as fire isn't involved... In PvP tho you can be lucky to find someone that wont CC break your drain for whatever reason.

Still don't see undeath working so thats not a factor.