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Zenimax, Ill fix ESO for you.
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Squarcle✭✭✭frwinters_ESO wrote: »no more classes. everyone is one "Adventurer" (no arrow to the knee yet) class, and ALL the skill lines are available to you. LIKE EVERY OTHER ELDER SCROLLS GAME
I stopped reading right here. Every elder scroll game, except Skyrim and i never played arena, had classes. You DID have the option of creating your own class with your own set attributes, but regardless, you had classes each with 5 primary skills that governed how you gained levels.
Skyrim was the first game where you could do anything, develop any skill, anytime anywhere etc.
So before you think you know how to fix a game, play the rest of them.
you mind if I correct you or you not gonna read that either? they had birth signs that gave you a minor adjustment to raising all the abilities that you could use between all "classes" you were never stuck only using daggers on the thief birth sign etc. that's what im saying, id much prefer the ability to use ALL skills on any account, I don't care about getting a 10% boost to something, I want bolt, I want shard, I want talons, I want chains, I DONT WANNA ROLL A NEW ACCOUNT TO V12 TO GET IT. I want every fight to be equal, I don't want you to faceroll me and my entire group 1v10 because you got 2 different reflect spells, a percent of your 3k+ hp reheal, a gap closing CC, and an area damage CC with 2 different ults that make u invincible.
+
but please, im sure your about to tell me how you easily solo any v12 DK in a fair 1v1 fight no ganking him.0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »ChingChong wrote: »That would be a hell of a structural revamp. Not completly against the idea. I'm not sure how it would effect the game going from a class structure to a free for all.
after the whiney babies crying about "oh but I just no-lifed a week to grind 4 Dk's and 4 sorc's to v12" wipe their tears they can change 1 into a healer 1 into a tank 1 into a mage 1 into an up fighter with melee, 1 into an archer, and 1 into a crafter, and 1 for experimenting lol, and than realize it was for the best.
its really sad watching more and more people quit their mains to go reroll a sorc and DK, u cant even find healers for lowbie dung groups anymore cause everyones a DPS DK or sorc , you find the rare tank, most of the time its a DK with destroy staff and light robes
I suggest you actually read what he said.
He wasn't saying anything you commented on, he said it would be a huge structural upheaval, ie essentially a rewrite of the game.
That might render the game unplayable, because the code would have to be rewritten, and any change can introduce bugs, and that degree could crash the servers, constantly.
Why would it require a code change? It would mostly be a I/F change. All selecting a class does is 'restrict' which skills you can use and skill up. The game play would NOT change at all, I don't understand why it would be a major overhaul considering all the skills are already in game and being used.
Because the game is coded for those classes, and any change to the base code of a game, which this is, has the potential to crash it.
It's not a matter of simply lifting restrictions, although it may seem so, it's a matter of altering the basic coding. The altering of the game to ignore the class structure is a fundamental change, not a cosmetic tweek.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule1 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lol you get spanked alot so you want to make the game /faceroll for you personally. I get it now, its not about "balance"; its about you, yourself, being GODMODETl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.0 -
Vertisce✭✭To the OP...this would be a true ESO game that I could really get behind playing for a long time. Wholeheartedly agree.0
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rfpalmerb16_ESO✭✭✭This is a great idea. Keep it at the top and maybe they will eventually look at it... wait that only works if the OP part of the 'select guilds and star players' that the devs listen to -- right.
Then balancing becomes about individual skills, not classes, which makes things a fark of a lot easier!Edited by rfpalmerb16_ESO on June 16, 2014 11:47PMRound peg? Square hole? Not a problem with a big enough hammer.0 -
Aeradon✭✭✭✭✭
Indeed. That's why Bethesda and Zenimax isn't the only developer that I love. That's why we are not restricted to one game. And that's exactly why we grow to be who we are and capable of making the comparisons and the right choice about the game.AlexDougherty wrote: »I know the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, but change isn't always a good idea.
This game has it's perks, it's already filled with more variety than most games. It's a great idea, it is! However, it could no longer be applied to ESO. Perhaps next time.
The class and skill system used by ESO reminds me of an old MMORPG named Rising Force Online. 3 factions, 3 classes, separate skill mastery that progresses based on player activity, and a specific campaign map for AvA. There were discussions within that game regarding removal of classes as well. However, balancing would be a complete headache, and it would end up having people complain about classes providing limited skills should it be successfully implemented.
1. Currently in ESO, all classes has it's variety of skills. But take a good look, it's essentially providing certain similarities in utilisation. It's either you have people running around with 3 skills that stackingly boosts damage to the point where he can one hit KO someone else, or you take away all these redundant spells and leave the classes with one and a half skill tree.
e.g. There are spells in all 3 classes that provides the ability to cap armour and spell resist, with small variations. All classes have spells that deals damage and returns some amount of health to players. All classes have spells that empower the following attack. All classes have spells that buffs basic combat stats for similar amount of time. If all these spells stack, it would be too OP, if all these spells do not stack, it's ridiculous to have all of them available to you.
2. Everyone will end up with the same build as mentioned by @AlexDougherty. Why? I currently have 2 resources, I spam only a maximum of 3 skills in a battle. This 3 skills are taken from a choice of 5 slots, with the other 2 suited for different situations. Occasionally I still have to swap out some skills for different mobs, because some skills are not optimal or the best in the group. Should I have access to all class skills, I no longer need to perform swapping. Example, I take the best 2 DPS skills from 2 classes, I add in 2 of the best self heals with resource management, and lastly an AOE cc or armour capping skill from DK. Do you think there's any content that one could not solo?
People keep telling me they're gonna buy me an ale. They never do.
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's culture. And the Elves.
Help make this compilation complete!
Compilation of Ideas and Suggestions1 -
Squarcle✭✭✭
Indeed. That's why Bethesda and Zenimax isn't the only developer that I love. That's why we are not restricted to one game. And that's exactly why we grow to be who we are and capable of making the comparisons and the right choice about the game.AlexDougherty wrote: »I know the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, but change isn't always a good idea.
This game has it's perks, it's already filled with more variety than most games. It's a great idea, it is! However, it could no longer be applied to ESO. Perhaps next time.
The class and skill system used by ESO reminds me of an old MMORPG named Rising Force Online. 3 factions, 3 classes, separate skill mastery that progresses based on player activity, and a specific campaign map for AvA. There were discussions within that game regarding removal of classes as well. However, balancing would be a complete headache, and it would end up having people complain about classes providing limited skills should it be successfully implemented.
1. Currently in ESO, all classes has it's variety of skills. But take a good look, it's essentially providing certain similarities in utilisation. It's either you have people running around with 3 skills that stackingly boosts damage to the point where he can one hit KO someone else, or you take away all these redundant spells and leave the classes with one and a half skill tree.
e.g. There are spells in all 3 classes that provides the ability to cap armour and spell resist, with small variations. All classes have spells that deals damage and returns some amount of health to players. All classes have spells that empower the following attack. All classes have spells that buffs basic combat stats for similar amount of time. If all these spells stack, it would be too OP, if all these spells do not stack, it's ridiculous to have all of them available to you.
2. Everyone will end up with the same build as mentioned by @AlexDougherty. Why? I currently have 2 resources, I spam only a maximum of 3 skills in a battle. This 3 skills are taken from a choice of 5 slots, with the other 2 suited for different situations. Occasionally I still have to swap out some skills for different mobs, because some skills are not optimal or the best in the group. Should I have access to all class skills, I no longer need to perform swapping. Example, I take the best 2 DPS skills from 2 classes, I add in 2 of the best self heals with resource management, and lastly an AOE cc or armour capping skill from DK. Do you think there's any content that one could not solo?
I think this is all false because 1: if your taking the best dps skills, youd most likely be taking the super high crystal shard shot from sorc which means 2 seconds of channeling = anyone can interrupt stun you instantly with a number of their own builds, the best heal would be mutagen = not enough hp to sustain everyones dps, breath of life would destroy your magicka unless used strategically, and your armor cap would end after 10 seconds so people would just switch targets if they had a brain, the game would become a lot more skill requiring and not based on "im this class so I can run into this group of people run my finger along keyboard and walk or bolt out after 5+ kills"
as for your "every skill is the same" part that is false, as far as I see sorc and NB are the only reheal on damage characters, sorc heals off crit, NB has siphon, the armor cap is wrong too only DK has the 3% damage cap, and only sorc/DK have area CC unless you count a NB ult or his fear, but neither the sorc or NB do damage with these area lockdowns, only the DK has a spammable root that does ridiculous damage aswell, which he can force u to burn ur entire stamina bar rolling out of talons, with 1/3 his magicka bar. in a fight Templars damage on next attack is heavily gimped, ive never seen a situation fighting someone 3k hp and up where channeling a 3 second cast for an extra 50 damage was viable unless he was really far away and you do it for your base damage, nightblade has a 30% boost to anything meaning he can execute u for upwards of 1k damage.
so anyways your 1 bar would basically be your main damage and 1 defense 1 self heal, and the other bar would be your situational counter to whoever counters your original bar, unless your 1 of those DK's that only play with 1 bar that doesn't even have all 5 abilitys on it, and has no need for them. which would make you extremely gimped instead of the "godmode" your saying here. sorry. theres a lot more strategy to what your saying in that post than everyone picking the same 2 spells.1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Having access to all skills will completely break the game and everything in it.There are waaaaay too many variables to be able to balance that out.
It will become elder scrolls of whatever min/max ppl figure out and thats it. Every person will run the same build simply because its massively OP.
Then what?
They'd have fun playing?
Can't have that.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭Do you know what happens if they remove classes from the game?
- Same overpowered skills remain (Therefore everyone picks the same, or falls way behind)
- People would say instead of nerf / buff <insert class>,
nerf / buff <insert skill>
- Everyone would complain (like they do now), why is everything killing my precious battlemage or ranger that is fighting with a bow close combat..
- Things wouldn't change at all.
Well whatever like it's not logical that some things are just not normal, no matter how you want to play..I dont remember asking in Skyrim if I can play as a skeever that is shooting with a gun..
Edited by Bloodfang on June 17, 2014 2:58AM1 -
Tripp3r✭✭✭Daedric armor - doesn't look like the armor in the trailers.
Arrows feel unrealistically underpowered.
no cool rope dart bridges like the one in the first trailer.
for some reason no dwarven Medium or light gear, despite the rogue in the cgi trailer showing it.
no MASSIVE abominations coming out of daedric anchors like the trailer.
Daedric anchors don't cause the destruction that the trailer shows.
Daedra in general feel weak, and useless, i have literally no incentive to go take down a daedric anchor, and despite what the devs say, i do not feel like the worlds ending when i see one of them.
daedra are even less of a problem in cyradiil, come on man.. they took the imperial city... there should be daedra running rampant in cyradiil.
No amazing looking undead horse.
devs don't give us enough information during maintenance times, including why, what they're fixing, what they're patching and so on (because they dont like to make promises they cant keep), which sounds a bit slack to me in my opinion "Hey johnny?, you finished patching the NA server yet?"
"Yeah almost just gota add armor dyes, and the cyradiil pve dungeon"
"Nah don't worry about it, we haven't released the patch notes yet, lets just throw in what we could be bothered adding, and leave the rest for after TGI fridays"
Beta issues still very prominent 2 months post launch.
still getting spammed by bots.
world bosses and public dungeons or "delves" bosses still being camped by 20+ bots at a time.
I've been optimistic about ESO since the beta, i enjoyed my time in tamriel somewhat but after 2 months the above issues got to me and i have now decided to end my subscription plan until the game improves in my personal opinion, keep in mind, that these are all my personal reasons as to why i'm quitting, if you don't feel the same way, thats great, enjoy ESO.
I was never expecting TES 6 i very much love that they've brought TES to an MMO genre, i just don't think it's been done right as it stands.
and lastly, this is only a small portion of what i think is wrong with the game, most of it is aesthetics but still as it stands the classes are also in balanced and with that brings pages of more problems i could add to the argument.Edited by Tripp3r on June 17, 2014 3:15AM0 -
kip_silverwolf✭✭✭✭✭no more classes. everyone is one "Adventurer" (no arrow to the knee yet) class, and ALL the skill lines are available to you. LIKE EVERY OTHER ELDER SCROLLS GAME
I guess you've never played Arena, Daggerfall or Morrowind then...
"I'm going to live forever..or at least die trying"
drunken Nord & Tamriel streaker since Arena1 -
Aeradon✭✭✭✭✭
Think out of the box man. I play an NB by the way.
Indeed. That's why Bethesda and Zenimax isn't the only developer that I love. That's why we are not restricted to one game. And that's exactly why we grow to be who we are and capable of making the comparisons and the right choice about the game.AlexDougherty wrote: »I know the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, but change isn't always a good idea.
This game has it's perks, it's already filled with more variety than most games. It's a great idea, it is! However, it could no longer be applied to ESO. Perhaps next time.
The class and skill system used by ESO reminds me of an old MMORPG named Rising Force Online. 3 factions, 3 classes, separate skill mastery that progresses based on player activity, and a specific campaign map for AvA. There were discussions within that game regarding removal of classes as well. However, balancing would be a complete headache, and it would end up having people complain about classes providing limited skills should it be successfully implemented.
1. Currently in ESO, all classes has it's variety of skills. But take a good look, it's essentially providing certain similarities in utilisation. It's either you have people running around with 3 skills that stackingly boosts damage to the point where he can one hit KO someone else, or you take away all these redundant spells and leave the classes with one and a half skill tree.
e.g. There are spells in all 3 classes that provides the ability to cap armour and spell resist, with small variations. All classes have spells that deals damage and returns some amount of health to players. All classes have spells that empower the following attack. All classes have spells that buffs basic combat stats for similar amount of time. If all these spells stack, it would be too OP, if all these spells do not stack, it's ridiculous to have all of them available to you.
2. Everyone will end up with the same build as mentioned by @AlexDougherty. Why? I currently have 2 resources, I spam only a maximum of 3 skills in a battle. This 3 skills are taken from a choice of 5 slots, with the other 2 suited for different situations. Occasionally I still have to swap out some skills for different mobs, because some skills are not optimal or the best in the group. Should I have access to all class skills, I no longer need to perform swapping. Example, I take the best 2 DPS skills from 2 classes, I add in 2 of the best self heals with resource management, and lastly an AOE cc or armour capping skill from DK. Do you think there's any content that one could not solo?
I think this is all false because 1: if your taking the best dps skills, youd most likely be taking the super high crystal shard shot from sorc which means 2 seconds of channeling = anyone can interrupt stun you instantly with a number of their own builds, the best heal would be mutagen = not enough hp to sustain everyones dps, breath of life would destroy your magicka unless used strategically, and your armor cap would end after 10 seconds so people would just switch targets if they had a brain, the game would become a lot more skill requiring and not based on "im this class so I can run into this group of people run my finger along keyboard and walk or bolt out after 5+ kills"
as for your "every skill is the same" part that is false, as far as I see sorc and NB are the only reheal on damage characters, sorc heals off crit, NB has siphon, the armor cap is wrong too only DK has the 3% damage cap, and only sorc/DK have area CC unless you count a NB ult or his fear, but neither the sorc or NB do damage with these area lockdowns, only the DK has a spammable root that does ridiculous damage aswell, which he can force u to burn ur entire stamina bar rolling out of talons, with 1/3 his magicka bar. in a fight Templars damage on next attack is heavily gimped, ive never seen a situation fighting someone 3k hp and up where channeling a 3 second cast for an extra 50 damage was viable unless he was really far away and you do it for your base damage, nightblade has a 30% boost to anything meaning he can execute u for upwards of 1k damage.
so anyways your 1 bar would basically be your main damage and 1 defense 1 self heal, and the other bar would be your situational counter to whoever counters your original bar, unless your 1 of those DK's that only play with 1 bar that doesn't even have all 5 abilitys on it, and has no need for them. which would make you extremely gimped instead of the "godmode" your saying here. sorry. theres a lot more strategy to what your saying in that post than everyone picking the same 2 spells.
As of now I have leeching strikes on my bar at all time, and even with the so called "broken" skills, or "weak" DW, I could dish out damage and self sustain for a very long time.
Now think of this AOE bar with the following load out.
Pulsar / Steel Tornado
Power Extraction / Sap Essence / Deep Breath
Siphoning Attacks / Dark Exchange / Leeching Strikes / Draw Essence
Solar Barrage / Burning Talons
Coagulating Blood / Lightning Form
Heck even with 2-3 skills from different class would be OP.
Pulsar to initiate
Spam Deep Breath to self sustain
Magicka and Stamina comes from Siphoning Attacks
Execute with Steel Tornado
Coagulating Blood for more HP or Lightning Form for DPS and sustainability.
Edited by Aeradon on June 17, 2014 4:01AMPeople keep telling me they're gonna buy me an ale. They never do.
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's culture. And the Elves.
Help make this compilation complete!
Compilation of Ideas and Suggestions0 -
Kenthros✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »no more classes. everyone is one "Adventurer" (no arrow to the knee yet) class, and ALL the skill lines are available to you. LIKE EVERY OTHER ELDER SCROLLS GAME
you wouldn't even need to remove skills because who is going to use 6 different heals on their bar besides a pure healer?
you spam "play how you want" ? okay, let us. don't force us into rolling a veteran account every month to try each class before we even pick a favourite just to fill your wallets with sub fee.
im tired of saying, and witnessing, how 2 classes (sorc and dk) are extremely overpowered at all levels in terms of PvE and PvP, and I dare you to deny it.
how to implement such an easy fix? reset all our skill points, keep our alliances and races, and just change us to adventurers, of whatever level we are. than we can pick and choose spells of any kind for our 1 character, because your treating this game like a cash cow MMO that your fans don't wanna see happen.
think of the beauty.. a forum where a person cant say "that class is OP" CAUSE HE IS THAT CLASS! everybody would counter themselves in PvP, and it would be incredible to try, and the best part is, you still run out of stamina and magicka! so nothing would be OP!!
please consider this, unless your end goal is really making huge bank off people who wanna try each of the classes to max rank
"play how you want" well damn, can you think of a better way zenimax? I suggest throwing this together for the private test server ASAP
you obviously only played skyrim i love it when people make that statment like every other "Elderscrolls games" . There were for more classes in elder scrolls games with far far more options and flexibility. the candy land combination of stats and diluted skill system was introduced as these games started hitting the limited hardware of console. this is no longer the case. you scream flexibility with zero reguard to Group mechanics, Rolls( yes the trinity is ot broken matter of fact it needs to be brought back to its core with more defined rolls and larger groups with true support and true CC. currently this game danced to close to the line of no roles and people are spitting it out like they just tasted dog poo) Its very evident in end game with everyone is DPS caster with taunts and heals.
Sure sure there were classes in the other games alot of them in fact, obviously you didnt go down the list to see that you could pick whatever skills you wanted making a class of your own, skyrim only gave it to you from the get go. Who picked those classes anyways, when you could make your own?But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.0 -
trucqulent✭✭✭standard qq is standard.
yeah... that sounds terrible. ESO isn't a single player game.
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Aeradon✭✭✭✭✭OP, I did not say every skill is the same, I said that there are redundant spells and even laid out examples.
Please make this a civil discussion where everyone can hold their own opinion yet discuss about the outcome or the viability? I don't force you to my opinions, and I really feel that it's a great idea and would be great if any developer could do it whilst having the game well balanced.
The class skills provided in ESO however are tweaked to be mutually exclusive, with each class being able to take on similar roles as the others, with minor morphs and properties that makes them unique and provide an additional utility. But essentially an amount of these skills does the same role? They synergize with the class skills well, and would be a crazy OP combo if allowed to synergize with other class skills?
Why do we need team mates? Why do we need groups? Will I use Assasin's Blade if my group mate has a Storm Call on the mob? No! Will I use Mark Target so he could kill faster? Yes! Will I cast Aspect of Terror so he could safely cast Crystal Shard? Yes! Now what if I have all these options at personal expense? Isn't it overpowered? Doesn't it take away the challenge?
Why do I feel that the idea if well applied is great? I want to be a spell slinger in shadows. I want to be a lightning powered dragon. However, could the current skills of ESO be balanced should they remove the class system? Don't think so.
Will ZOS be willing to overhaul the whole system just to please my fantasies when majority of the players are attuned to the current system?
Is it wise to delay every paying customer's precious updates and contents in order to push a game changing change that requires more resources to rebalance than it is now?
These are the questions one should ask themselves.
I do retain certain amount of respect for you and your idea OP, though I have no control and absolutely no right to your mind, I certainly wish that one does not slap me in the face by claiming all my points are false without properly reading or thinking about it. We are all paying customers here, we want this game to be the best it could, so please have mutual respect for one another.
Edit:
There's a difference in Single player RPG and MMORPG. I played Oblivion and Skyrim. I can ignore the mobs feelings of me being OP because it's my world, it's tailored for me to become the best of that world.
This here, is an MMO. People have feelings, even gingers. You may be able to play the way you want, what about the others, having someone /faceroll them with OP builds? Could they play the way they want?
The idea is good, could and should be well-fit for ES series. ESO is already done, with arguably well thought classes, the concept is set, the plans implemented, the game is live. Maybe next time.. Maybe.. I certainly hope so.Edited by Aeradon on June 17, 2014 4:33AMPeople keep telling me they're gonna buy me an ale. They never do.
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's culture. And the Elves.
Help make this compilation complete!
Compilation of Ideas and Suggestions1 -
frwinters_ESO✭✭✭✭frwinters_ESO wrote: »no more classes. everyone is one "Adventurer" (no arrow to the knee yet) class, and ALL the skill lines are available to you. LIKE EVERY OTHER ELDER SCROLLS GAME
I stopped reading right here. Every elder scroll game, except Skyrim and i never played arena, had classes. You DID have the option of creating your own class with your own set attributes, but regardless, you had classes each with 5 primary skills that governed how you gained levels.
Skyrim was the first game where you could do anything, develop any skill, anytime anywhere etc.
So before you think you know how to fix a game, play the rest of them.
you mind if I correct you or you not gonna read that either? they had birth signs that gave you a minor adjustment to raising all the abilities that you could use between all "classes" you were never stuck only using daggers on the thief birth sign etc. that's what im saying, id much prefer the ability to use ALL skills on any account, I don't care about getting a 10% boost to something, I want bolt, I want shard, I want talons, I want chains, I DONT WANNA ROLL A NEW ACCOUNT TO V12 TO GET IT. I want every fight to be equal, I don't want you to faceroll me and my entire group 1v10 because you got 2 different reflect spells, a percent of your 3k+ hp reheal, a gap closing CC, and an area damage CC with 2 different ults that make u invincible.
+
but please, im sure your about to tell me how you easily solo any v12 DK in a fair 1v1 fight no ganking him.
I wont tell you i face roll every DK 1v1 cause i do not. Have i won a few? Sure I have, but I'm usually playing with a group of my guild mates. This style of PvP is warfare. To have warfare you need to have armies. I develop my character to aid the army aka my group, as a whole. I bring the stun locks, disables, snares with some dps, our healers keep us alive, our heavy hitters make the killing blow. That's Cyrodil and that's its design. It was advertised this way since day one. The nightblade is not a great 1v1 class anyway in a straight up fight. DUH! It has more bonuses for doing damage from stealth then any other class. So yes you want to get the jump on your enemy from stealth and crit and re-stealth in order to survive. You call it ganking, well it is and thats the class. If you are not going to take advantage of the classes passives and benefits why play it? If you want 1v1 type of combat, this game may not be for you. When and if they ever introduce Arena's, then you will have what you want and have to develop skills for that. Until that happens, join the warfare, get in a group, contribute and have fun. If your not having fun, then stop wasting your money and time on the game. Its very simple.0