Lore Question: Mannimarco & Varen

ShedsHisTail · June 2014

Alright, something I was wondering, perhaps someone knows the answer.

In the first Harborage quest the Prophet explains to us the roles and characters of each of the original five companions.

When he gets to Mannimarco he describes him as a Necromancer.

The question is; was Varen Aquilarius aware of Mannimarco's necromatic hobby before he betrayed them?
And if so, should he (Aquilarius) have seen it coming?

And why was he employing a Necromancer in the first place?

CheesyDaedra · June 2014

Well, Vanus Galerion and Mannimarco were the two best apprentices of the Artaeum, so while one made the mages guild, the other turned onto necromantic arts and such; I believe Varen should have known he was a necromancer before employing him, since he wanted to use the Amulet of Kings (which has a little portion of Akatosh's himself blood) to imbue his own soul with the Dragonborn blessing, something a skilled necromancer would probably do.

Sihnfahl · June 2014

Everyone knew Mannimarco was a necromancer. At the time, it wasn't outlawed. Frowned upon, perhaps. But not illegal. And it IS a useful magic line.

Necromancers aren't necessarily evil. There are good uses for Necromancy and evil uses for Necromancy.

Where Varen messed up was that he was too intent on gaining the favor of Akatosh and did not question the motives of those around him. They each had their quirks, yes, but he felt he could trust them to act in the greater good of the Empire.

Mannimarco capitalized on that and used it to his own aims. It wasn't that Mannimarco was a necromancer that did him in; it was that he was secretly in collusion with Molag Bal.

ShedsHisTail · June 2014

Alright then, if we accept that Necromancy was not illegal prior to the Ritual and Mannimarco's betrayal, at what point does it -become- illegal?

There appears to be a general stigma against Necromancy and it's practitioners, but I can't imagine the details of Mannimarco's deeds are common knowledge; especially since he's kept a Tharn at the forefront. Most common folk would simply have seen a change from one Tharn to another, and having the worlds most powerful necromancer as the Tharn's adviser seems like it would encourage further acceptance of necromancy as a legitimate school of Sorcery rather than demonize it.

Mannimarco surely wouldn't outlaw the practice.

Or is that what this whole War of three banners is about on a common-level; the people rebelling against the Worm Cult and the use of necromancy at the topmost levels of governance? Did the various factions (EP, DC, AD) outlaw it independently as a form of defiance; since they aren't adhering to Imperial Law anyway?

Is Necromancy -actually- illegal; or is it just really, really frowned upon?
I know the Dunmer tread the line with their ancestor worship, are EP Necromancy laws different from the other factions?

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO · June 2014

The Mages Guild had a ban on Necromancy, which presumably ended for a while after Vanus Galerion was killed, and then was enforced again several centuries later when Hannibal Traven became Archmage in the Third Era. Beside the laws in Morrowind, this is one of the few real instances of official restriction on Necromancy.

I was also confused by the fact that Varen was so willing to throw in his lot with Mannimarco, but Mannimarco had been affiliated with the empire and the Elder Council for quite some time, way before the rebellion. Also, I doubt that the extent of his involvement in necromancy was common knowledge. While he was known to be affiliated with the Worm Cult, I doubt many knew that he was actually their leader. It wasn't until after he rose to power in the empire did he really start to push his agenda. (Making the Worm Cult the head magical advisers for the empire, running the Mages Guild out of Cyrodiil, etc.)

As for the legality of the practice, I don't think any of the factions would want to outlaw it entirely, and I doubt the Dunmer can push their laws on the matter onto the entire Pact. I imagine the practice would seem more abhorrent in the public eye, and those who practiced it legally would be less public about it. Maybe the punishment for those who practiced it illegally would be more severe.

After all, necromancy isn't necessarily bad. It's just the grave robbing, murder, desecration, enslavement, and whatever else that usually comes saddled with it.