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What do you all think of Zenimax making a petition for us to ...
What do you all think of Zenimax making a petition for us to vote on that states we would forego NEW content for a month or two for them to focus all their time fixing existing content/skills and other major issues?
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Moiskormoimi✭✭✭✭It their business model, not ours. We're paying customers and while our voices are heard to a degree, ultimately, it's their decision on what gets released/fixed and when. A petition would be futile in this regards. This is not a bill.4 -
amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »It their business model, not ours. We're paying customers and while our voices are heard to a degree, ultimately, it's their decision on what gets released/fixed and when. A petition would be futile in this regards. This is not a bill.
I think you are missing the point, they don't seem to have a clue what the paying customers want. If they are making improper assumptions to base their decisions on then we, as the customer suffer. I could be way off base but every player I speak to in PvE and PvP all say they would rather they fix the game then spend time expanding it with more content that will be full of bugs.4 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭strongoakb14a_ESO wrote: »What do you all think of Zenimax making a petition for us to vote on that states we would forego NEW content for a month or two for them to focus all their time fixing existing content/skills and other major issues?
Creating new content does not mean old content is not being debugged. Throwing more people at debugging code who were not hired to debug code will slow down the process and be a waste of resources. The development cycle needs to remain intact.10 -
Dusty5✭✭✭The only power we have is the power of the purse. The forums are ignored for the most part. TESO hitting the bargain bin in under 90 days has not changed anything quality is still poor. A business or any business who thinks the customer is an idiot and will continue to accept a crap product has no reason to change. TIME STEPS MONEY anything that adds to one will cost you more of the other 2.3
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Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭strongoakb14a_ESO wrote: »What do you all think of Zenimax making a petition for us to vote on that states we would forego NEW content for a month or two for them to focus all their time fixing existing content/skills and other major issues?
Creating new content does not mean old content is not being debugged. Throwing more people at debugging code who were not hired to debug code will slow down the process and be a waste of resources. The development cycle needs to remain intact.
Yea they have different teams for different things. How about just let them do their jobs.2 -
Raeph✭✭✭So what, they stop paying the artists and other content devs for a few months? How does that do anything to improve the game? Maybe before making posts like this you could do a modicum of research into how development teams function.2
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Rammi✭✭✭Working as a Software Product Manager. I can categorically say the customer very rarely know what they want. They simply know what they need and how to get it can be done in a number of ways.
You also can't please everyone! So as many have said a petition is rather pointless, what they should do is conduct a number of interviews with a cross section of the community to learn about common drivers to enjoyment and build based on that.The Champion System should have rewarded Champion Points based off of achievements and feats earned through excelling at end game content not grinding your life away vs mobs in order to stay competitive. This system is uncreative and is a great example of extremely lazy system design. Yes, you should be embarrassed3 -
Moiskormoimi✭✭✭✭strongoakb14a_ESO wrote: »amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »It their business model, not ours. We're paying customers and while our voices are heard to a degree, ultimately, it's their decision on what gets released/fixed and when. A petition would be futile in this regards. This is not a bill.
I think you are missing the point, they don't seem to have a clue what the paying customers want. If they are making improper assumptions to base their decisions on then we, as the customer suffer. I could be way off base but every player I speak to in PvE and PvP all say they would rather they fix the game then spend time expanding it with more content that will be full of bugs.
No, I'm not. You're delusional in believing that a petition will actually cause them to reconsider their business model. It won't. It doesn't.
What will speak to them is when people speak to their wallet. Also, they have already acknowledged a lot of complaints in The Road Ahead, so they are reading these forums, reviews, etc. A petition will do nothing here, as they have no legal reason to even acknowledge it.1 -
Aeradon✭✭✭✭✭Working as a Software Product Manager. I can categorically say the customer very rarely know what they want. They simply know what they need and how to get it can be done in a number of ways.
You also can't please everyone! So as many have said a petition is rather pointless, what they should do is conduct a number of interviews with a cross section of the community to learn about common drivers to enjoyment and build based on that.
This. It wasn't the consumers who envisioned an iPhone before it came out. If there's one thing the life changing products teach us, is that the consumers generally do not know what they want and what they would like.
Most of consumers would refer to their favourite products and make comparisons, wishing for a perfect product. This said perfect product could be manufactured at a high cost, at the same time would cannibalise whatever other products the company has. So no company would make that, and also nobody would buy that.
Example: Microsoft recently unbundled the Xbox One and Kinect. Because everybody feels that it's more expensive in comparison with PS4, even if Kinect was discounted with the bundle, market research shows people prefer to buy it separately. And you rarely see TV that comes having a blu-ray disc tray and supreme sound system.
Example on consumers not knowing what they want unless presented with:
Blackberry slapped on a keyboard on a mobile phone, with BES email system, consumers and company loves it, but it was definitely not their request. Heck, nobody even knows what is BES until presented by RIM, but they love the idea!
Flappy Bird, do people know what mobile games that will make a hit? Nguyen knows, putting together a game that is so tough but simple to control and understand. Reason? It's short and sweet, it's on the go, it's fast to boot, and nobody would be able to figure out why they can't accomplish such a simple task. Nguyen reminded the world of classic games, ran on modern graphics with a touch of nostalgia. He knows what he was aiming for, consumers doesn't even know why they're loving it.
More examples?
The Bra. You'll be surprised that a small thing made and worn by a young 19 year old is now in every lady's wardrobe. That's the whole world population not knowing what they want, other than that single person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caresse_Crosby
If it wasn't for Caresse, the ladies would still be wearing corsets.
For ZOS to ask us for opinions on business direction is plain pathetic. They should know how to prioritise and do their job.Edited by Aeradon on June 16, 2014 4:50PMPeople keep telling me they're gonna buy me an ale. They never do.
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's culture. And the Elves.
Help make this compilation complete!
Compilation of Ideas and Suggestions1 -
Paladin_echo1✭✭✭amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »It their business model, not ours. We're paying customers and while our voices are heard to a degree, ultimately, it's their decision on what gets released/fixed and when. A petition would be futile in this regards. This is not a bill.
About this "our voices heard" thing... They repair that elder scroll bug where you can't use /stuck fairly QUICKLY. Makes you think about what they are doing with the rest of the stuff being said.0 -
KhajitFurTrader✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It is, or rather, it has always been my understanding that there are such things called "production queues" or "pipelines". Content doesn't happen overnight, assets and landscapes have to be build, refined, playtested, and bugfixed. These processes and iterations take several weeks to months of time to happen. So, no matter what they decide to do, there is always content in all stages down the pipeline.
In addition to that, there are certainly several teams working simultaneously on the game at once. Some are dedicated to build the next big thing(TM) that has been announced (1.2.x), some will fix bugs in the current code, some will be working on yet unannounced things down the line. This is possible due to software revision control and source code management systems like git, where multiple branches of the code base can be split, improved upon, and remerged all at once. Drawing all teams back from their current tasks and setting them all to one (bug fixing) doesn't seem like a good idea, since it will tear a big hole in all other existing and future production pipelines. Also, Brooks's Law applies.
Edited by KhajitFurTrader on June 16, 2014 7:52PM0 -
phtony06b14_ESO✭✭✭You assume that the ones doing the fixing are also the ones doing the creating. My guess is that they have different departments. Putting a cork on a creative mind is just wasting their talent.0 -
zgrssd✭✭✭✭strongoakb14a_ESO wrote: »What do you all think of Zenimax making a petition for us to vote on that states we would forego NEW content for a month or two for them to focus all their time fixing existing content/skills and other major issues?
Creating new content does not mean old content is not being debugged. Throwing more people at debugging code who were not hired to debug code will slow down the process and be a waste of resources. The development cycle needs to remain intact.
^^ThoseShaun98ca2 wrote: »strongoakb14a_ESO wrote: »What do you all think of Zenimax making a petition for us to vote on that states we would forego NEW content for a month or two for them to focus all their time fixing existing content/skills and other major issues?
Creating new content does not mean old content is not being debugged. Throwing more people at debugging code who were not hired to debug code will slow down the process and be a waste of resources. The development cycle needs to remain intact.
Yea they have different teams for different things. How about just let them do their jobs.
We bought a new MMO.
That the game is not guaranteed to be online or bugfreed is part of the TOS we all agreed too.
You cannot really claim you did not expect problems like this in the first 6 months after launch.
If you want to leave - population is expected to fluctuate anyway after launch.
Some bugs are easy to fix. Some are not.Paladin_echo1 wrote: »About this "our voices heard" thing... They repair that elder scroll bug where you can't use /stuck fairly QUICKLY. Makes you think about what they are doing with the rest of the stuff being said.
Some bugs affect more players more severely then others.
Especially with a full revision and testing cycle they have to do.
That is why the frograce in auridon for example is still not fixed:
It is not that important and it is propably rather hard to fix. Compared to every other PvE bug.Elana Peterson (EU), Dominion, Imperial Sorc, Rune & Alchemy Crafting Char
Leonida Peterson (EU), Daggerfall, Kajiit Nightblade, Tank & main Crafter
Kurga Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Ork Dragonknight, Provision Mule
Coldblood Peterson (EU) Argonian Templer, Daggerfall, Healer
Incendia Peterson (EU), Dominion, Dunmer Dragonknight, fire DPS & healer
Haldor Belendor (EU), Ebonhart, Breton Sorcerer, Tank
Fuliminictus Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Altmer Sorcerer, Electric DPS
Me babbling about PvE roles and Armor, Short Guide to Addon Programming (for Programmers)
If you think anything I or somebody else said violates the Rules of this Forum, you are free to flag my posts. Till I get any notifcaion from this, I just asume you know you have no case against me or Zenimax disagrees with you.0 -
Moiskormoimi✭✭✭✭Paladin_echo1 wrote: »amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »It their business model, not ours. We're paying customers and while our voices are heard to a degree, ultimately, it's their decision on what gets released/fixed and when. A petition would be futile in this regards. This is not a bill.
About this "our voices heard" thing... They repair that elder scroll bug where you can't use /stuck fairly QUICKLY. Makes you think about what they are doing with the rest of the stuff being said.
I never stated that they aren't paying attention to the client base at all. The new Road Ahead clearly proves they are reading everything and taking everything into accord, good and bad. My point is that they aren't going to suddenly stop their business plan for a petition they don't have to adhere to. They've heard us. They know their issues and short comings. But they are in no legal way obligated to even acknowledge it, let alone drastically reschedule their projects for the game.0 -
This. It wasn't the consumers who envisioned an iPhone before it came out.
Funny thing is Bill Gates mentioned an iPhone/iPad like device in a discussion with him and Steve Jobs both present years before it came around, its on youtube.
Now to say consumers didnt envision such a thing, youre right we didnt until the first PADD was picked up in Star Trek and the first communicator was used. Apple didnt invent the idea of the iPhone, they just invented it first in a way we all accepted it.
HP sold the mouse to Bill Gates for a song because consumers hated it, now how many of you would play ESO mouseless (hush xbox controller users
)
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Dayv✭✭✭✭I think they should certainly put more focus on bug fixing, in particular the quality of bug fixing. Given the amount of introduced bugs from the bug fixing process I'm inclined to believe that they don't use anything like a peer-review system. Fixing bugs is one thing, but fixing bugs whilst avoiding side-effects needs to be the real goal.0 -
Well I got the answer I expected pretty much from everyone that didnt go on a tangent anyway. Thanks all0
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amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »
No, I'm not. You're delusional in believing that a petition will actually cause them to reconsider their business model. It won't. It doesn't.
What will speak to them is when people speak to their wallet. Also, they have already acknowledged a lot of complaints in The Road Ahead, so they are reading these forums, reviews, etc. A petition will do nothing here, as they have no legal reason to even acknowledge it.
I never said a petition would do anything, I asked others if they felt it would so obviously I felt it most likely wouldn't or I would've just made a POLL post or a petition for others to /sign.0
