Thoughts on my first MMO I bought on launch

ZOS_LenaicR

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We would like to keep this discussion open, so we encourage everyone to please be respectful of one another’s opinions. otherwise this thread will be locked.

dietlime

devolutedub17_ESO wrote: »

If you can't handle a game with little to no end game or bugs, don't be a first adopter of an MMO. If you want to help shape where the game goes and see where the journey takes you, then by all means take the ride from the start. But, remember that if you want to make it better, constructive criticism will be more useful than accusations.

Getting mad at other players isn't constructive.

so, my thoughts? It seems to be a fine launch, this would be my fifth MMO I played from launch. There are issues that will get resolved. There are ideas that will be added and reworked. I'm not seeing anything that is insurmountable forthe dev team. Would I like some things to be corrected, added, fixed more quickly? Of course, but I also understand it's not that simple.

I also agree that there are major improvements that could be made to ESO. From what I've seen they're taking steps in the right direction, and a whole-zone private instance sounds like something really fun to do with my high-level characters. So if they're going to release more of those that's the bees knees.

I don't have a character ready though, because I actually listen to the dialogue and only have a few hours to play per week now. It is what it is. Back to work.

Swampster

Phantax wrote: »

You should be lucky its your first launch MMO. Lets see... I've done TERA, SWTOR, Secret World, Rift (all have been early access) and I can honestly say this has been the best and the worst of them.
The game itself is great, the new content schedule (assuming they stick to it) is very promising, latency is good (although not for some)
The bots and bugs at launch have been the worst I've seen (of any launch or expansion)
All-in-all ESO launch has been a positive (just) and for now anyway I see my gaming future here !

Nicked this as it nearly fits me..

You should be lucky its your first launch MMO. Lets see... I've done LoTRO, FFXIV, ST:O, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, Defiance, Secret World, (all have been early access, some alphas/betas too) and I can honestly say this has been the best and the worst of them.

Err actually no... FFXIV and ST:O were the worst! And Tera or Rift about the smoothest.. I actually don't know what was wrong with Tera other than running out of stuff to do and it being a grind of epic proportions...

The game itself is great, the new content schedule (assuming they stick to it) is very promising, latency is good totally f***** up at times!

The bots and bugs at launch have been the worst I've seen (of any launch or expansion except maybe ST:O)... well no argument about the bots! totally the worst!

All-in-all ESO launch has been average and for now anyway I'll keep playing a while see how it goes..

tawok

It's only OK to flame someone if you're white knighting the game, I get it.

Feel free to insult others so long as you're towing the line. Can't beat em' join em'.

Looks like if I want actual discussion and not just pro-ESO propoganda, I'll have to stick to MMO-c, TF, and Reddit.

mutharex

For some more important news, they just announced 1.1 for tomorrow

tawok

mutharex wrote: »

For some more important news, they just announced 1.1 for tomorrow

This wasn't a news post, we have an entire sub-forum for that. I was asking for other launch MMO experiences and how they stack up, and in 50 comments, that's happened twice.

mutharex

Yeah I know, so I added some thing interesting to it

Swampster

mutharex wrote: »

Yeah I know, so I added some thing interesting to it

See from my point of view you're simply trying to derail his thread and goad him into flaming you..

mutharex

Swampster wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Yeah I know, so I added some thing interesting to it

See from my point of view you're simply trying to derail his thread and goad him into flaming you..

From my point of view this thread has derailed hours ago. Opinions. But I'll leave you two to discuss. Have fun

Phantax

Ladies, ladies, calm down !

tawok wrote: »

dietlime wrote: »

I'd really like to see permanent forum bans start. Tawok spends more time here than in the game, and I would know from experience, it would be for his own good to be permanently banned.

I didn't recognize the name until you pointed it out. He's been doing this since before the game came out. On Reddit, too.

I used to be that guy Tawok, move on: it isn't worth it.

Actually, I spend a lot of time stopping by the official forums, the subreddit, and tamriel forge on downtime at work. It's my choice how to use my time, not yours.

You would know from experience? Seriously? Do you know how idiotic that sounds, at all?? You don't know me in real life, or even in game for that matter, how the hell would you know how much I play?

You used to be that guy? I'd rather be "that guy", than be the guy that pretends he "knows people" from how/what they do on the internet. Grow up.

Well I guess this call for just one thing -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ5nKHULDk4

tawok

Phantax wrote: »

You should be lucky its your first launch MMO. Lets see... I've done TERA, SWTOR, Secret World, Rift (all have been early access) and I can honestly say this has been the best and the worst of them.
The game itself is great, the new content schedule (assuming they stick to it) is very promising, latency is good (although not for some)
The bots and bugs at launch have been the worst I've seen (of any launch or expansion)
All-in-all ESO launch has been a positive (just) and for now anyway I see my gaming future here !

Thanks for this. Actual insight on other MMOs at launch!

Swampster wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

You should be lucky its your first launch MMO. Lets see... I've done TERA, SWTOR, Secret World, Rift (all have been early access) and I can honestly say this has been the best and the worst of them.
The game itself is great, the new content schedule (assuming they stick to it) is very promising, latency is good (although not for some)
The bots and bugs at launch have been the worst I've seen (of any launch or expansion)
All-in-all ESO launch has been a positive (just) and for now anyway I see my gaming future here !

Nicked this as it nearly fits me..

You should be lucky its your first launch MMO. Lets see... I've done LoTRO, FFXIV, ST:O, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, Defiance, Secret World, (all have been early access, some alphas/betas too) and I can honestly say this has been the best and the worst of them.

Err actually no... FFXIV and ST:O were the worst! And Tera or Rift about the smoothest.. I actually don't know what was wrong with Tera other than running out of stuff to do and it being a grind of epic proportions...

The game itself is great, the new content schedule (assuming they stick to it) is very promising, latency is good totally f***** up at times!

The bots and bugs at launch have been the worst I've seen (of any launch or expansion except maybe ST:O)... well no argument about the bots! totally the worst!

All-in-all ESO launch has been average and for now anyway I'll keep playing a while see how it goes..

So you'd say, all in all, that ESO is kinda in the middle as far as launch fiascos go?

ZOS_LenaicR

tawok wrote: »

It's only OK to flame someone if you're white knighting the game, I get it.

Flaming is not allowed on our forums. Rules are the same for everyone.
If you come across a rude or insulting comment, please flag it and we will investigate on the post/thread.

Thanks for your comprehension.

Swampster

tawok wrote: »

So you'd say, all in all, that ESO is kinda in the middle as far as launch fiascos go?

Hard to say,... what ESO does well it does very well in my opinion! Story telling is first class for an MMO, but it's failings (and while yes I agree) often have been present in other games they have been taken to whole new levels of bad in my experience... the bots epidemic for example is just on a level of ridiculousness I've never witnessed before.

Saerydoth

My feelings on "endgame". Well, I want to have stuff to do at level cap. I don't want to "beat the game" on hitting level cap and not really being able to do anything with that character anymore. But, Blizzard completely went the wrong way with the way they did their max level content. In WOW, max level content is designed so that only the most current max-level content is relevant, and anything older is a complete waste of time unless you just want achievements or something.

I really hope ESO doesn't go this direction, and ZOS manages to keep ALL content relevant.

Talmet

Swampster wrote: »

tawok wrote: »

So you'd say, all in all, that ESO is kinda in the middle as far as launch fiascos go?

Hard to say,... what ESO does well it does very well in my opinion! Story telling is first class for an MMO, but it's failings (and while yes I agree) often have been present in other games they have been taken to whole new levels of bad in my experience... the bots epidemic for example is just on a level of ridiculousness I've never witnessed before.

Really? The bots are more noticeable in ESO, true (which is caused by the most profitable activities being in the open, more than anything else)....but looking at just the number or even percent of characters that are bots, other games (WoW, GW2, FFIV, FFXI, and most/all asian F2P MMOs are way way worse.) You just need to learn how to notice a bot.

i.e. You see a character in WoW on a flying mount, he comes over, lands, picks a flower, remounts and then flys away. Is he a bot? (play games long enough, & you'll pick up how "real" players move/fly & how bots move/fly.)

I had a co-worker a few years ago who over lunch told me that he botted WoW to farm herbs/ore, sold it to people in bulk & then sold the gold to gold seller websites for real money. As much as it made me really hate the guy, listening to him gave me a lot of info into how bots operate.

i.e. A lot people on this forum say things like "if you message someone & they don't respond, they're a bot." Really? You think that the bot programs are sophisticated enough to detect mobs, move the character to the mob, face the mob, use abilities, loot the corpse, and then continue on a set path...but detecting a /tell and sending a "/r leave me alone" is too complicated?

Shillen

Every MMO releases with crap for end-game content. WoW had one 10-man dungeon and like 2-3 5-man dungeons when it released.

JoyEnergiser

I've seen much worse game launches.We talking about the first month of MMO releases.ESO had an incredibly smooth launch.

WoW had server queues, errors and massive latency at its launch.It was unplayable.Especially the infamous "stuck in looting position" glitch that left characters crouched on the ground for several minutes at a time.

Diablo3 the first month was a joke!

Final Fantasy 14- this game was SO BAD they had to relaunch it as Final fantasy 14 a realm reborn There was ZERO end game content.
-
Guild wars 2 had such huge issues THEY STOPPED GAME SALES FOR A WHILE

These are just the games that are CURRENTLY successful, there are so many other failed launches that destroyed the game.

So honestly, take your hyperbole and instant gratification generation somewhere else and let the rest of us enjoy the game, the first content patch is coming after 2 months and they are working on some issues, JUST LIKE EVERY MMORPG LAUNCH IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

God I'm tired of whining brats. don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Swampster

Talmet wrote: »

Really? The bots are more noticeable in ESO, true (which is caused by the most profitable activities being in the open, more than anything else)....but looking at just the number or even percent of characters that are bots, other games (WoW, GW2, FFIV, FFXI, and most/all asian F2P MMOs are way way worse.) You just need to learn how to notice a bot.

i.e. You see a character in WoW on a flying mount, he comes over, lands, picks a flower, remounts and then flys away. Is he a bot? (play games long enough, & you'll pick up how "real" players move/fly & how bots move/fly.)

Crock.. and please don't try to patronise me! I am more than capable of recognising a bot..

For example, a constant stream (2-3 spawning every 5 seconds...) that's literally hundreds if not thousands spawning in just ONE location of this game, the wayshrine in Windhelm, all dressed in soul shriven gear (lvl 2) following a preset route around the town that includes going through walls and floors...

Yeah!.. no that's someone just collecting flowers right?

You must be playing a completely different ESO to me if you really believe this game doesn't have a MAJOR bot infestation problem. The fact that bots are more noticable is simply down to the sheer number of them.. not some mysterious voodoo that's particular to this game only.

The list of 'way worse games' that you've mentioned I've never actually played, while I am sure there are bots in WoW and GW2 if there were an epidemic of the proportions that we can clearly see in this game I'm pretty sure I'd have already read about it.

WOW, FFIV and FFXI, they're pretty old games and there'd be something REALLY wrong if there there had't been any progress since their respective releases! And as far as I'm aware ESO isn't a F2P asian grinder yet, though how long it remains that way (in terms of being F2P) is anyone's guess, so I couldn't care less about those.. it's akin to comparing apples to oranges.

mutharex

https://www.google.es/search?q=gw2+bots&oq=gw2+bots&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1727j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Swampster

JoyEnergiser wrote: »

So honestly, take your hyperbole and instant gratification generation somewhere else and let the rest of us enjoy the game, the first content patch is coming after 2 months and they are working on some issues, JUST LIKE EVERY MMORPG LAUNCH IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

Speaking of hyperbole...

Swampster

mutharex wrote: »

https://www.google.es/search?q=gw2+bots&oq=gw2+bots&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1727j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

And your point is? Other than trying to be smart..

If you read my post I actually said... and I've highlighted the important bit..

me wrote:

while I am sure there are bots in WoW and GW2

Anyway, I thought you were leaving this thread for us to discuss or are you back for more attempts at derailment?

mutharex

Sorry but if you don't modify your attitude to be less of arrogant smartass and stop insulting people, you'll be discussing with.. no one.

We have had our share of your type and they have gone and forgotten. It won't be any different, as people already stopped replying.

Enjoy ... oblivion

Lodestar

tawok wrote: »

Guys, I didn't mean to make this topic to start a flame war over whether or not this should clone wow. I'm simply opening discussion on whether or not other MMOs launch this poorly, and I'd really like some concrete examples.

Philosophical debates about whether or not end game is "fun" (subjectivism at its finest), it's clear that people against end game are in the minority. Millions of MMO players want something to do once they finish off the theme park. ZoS wants us to have something to do, lest we move on from their game. As much as I like it, player generated content based MMOs are a thing of the past. If MMO A requires my effort (like making large events) to enjoy it at end game, and MMO B doesn't (by giving us gear face-rolls/queue'd PVP), I'm gonna take the lazier option with the majority of the lazy gamers out there.

How is it clear that people against end game are minority? What are you basing that on? I recall a few threads where people quoted it was 20% actually liked them. Again they never backed it.

Just saying without any actual figures from a few sources, I can not take any opinion as gospel. I see plenty who don't care for end game content. Myself I play a bit when I get to it, but it is not my main game. And tend to lose interest after a while. To each their own of course.

Swampster

mutharex wrote: »

Sorry but if you don't modify your attitude to be less of arrogant smartass and stop insulting people, you'll be discussing with.. no one.

Please quote where I've insulted anyone?

Reading back on this thread, and your interjections would suggest you need to look a little closer to home my good fellow. It seems you're unable to debate without resorting to cheap retorts or veiled threats of reporting people for non-existant insults.

Alurria

Speaking to the OP, I have lost count of how many MMO s I have either beta tested or played at launch. This is one of the smoothest launches I have participated in. Let's SWG had many,many flaws, server down etc. EQ server down times at the start. Shadow bane, people flying through the air, formations for group pvp the leader could control your character and you would have to relog to regain control. WoW loot bug, hunters had no talents, downtime lots and lots.

MMOs are never finished, there are people who consume the content at a hurried rate, I don't know why nor do I care. Then there are people who consume at a slower rate. The only real question you need to ask yourself is "am I having fun?" If the answer is NO you know what to do, if the answer is yes then get in the game.

Swampster

I think the problem is with the 'am I having fun?' question is, there are probably at present a lot of people kind of inbetween and swaying... in a kind of love/hate relationship with the game!

Me for instance, enjoying many aspects of the game and as I previously mentioned think there are aspects that ESO does really rather well.. so yeah all fine and dandy, thoroughly enjoying getting lost in Tamriel then BAM!! something happens (that's not supposed to happen) that leaves me yelling at my screen lol, or just otherwise irritating...

Simple things like when forming a group for a dungeon run.. trying to ensure everyone has the quest, and we all appear in the same phase of the dungeon can be like trying to navigate some ancient ritual

As someone posted earlier... it's been the 'best and the worst' pretty much sums it up for me..

tordr86b16_ESO

Themepark mmo have ends, sandbox mmo's don't because content is player generated. I strongly believe that both styles can be combined together to make an awesome game. Sadly, ESO is not that mmog.

On rails snooze fests gets old fast.

Spectrasoul

1) Did you forget about Cyrodiil? As you said Craglorn is coming, this will encourage more group plays.

2) Agreed about needing to make it easier to group, pub dungeons are a great example, you got Sorcerers running around solo AE'ing everything and then a rag tag bunch following behind. Give some Exp incentive to form a team in these situations. Definitely, definitely need more incentive for people to form dungeon groups for places like Spindleclutch / Selene's Web, etc. A big exp reward first time through would suffice.

3) All I can say is that you need to find a better guild. My guild is incredible for socializing and keeping the game interesting even if I'm stuck on a boring quest or grind. I think the guild system is a good one.

4) I like the concept of VR, I enjoy getting to explore the other zones. I'm a bit torn because as a NB.. VR content feels very hard, sometimes too hard. But that's good because if it was too easy it would be instantly boring. I have to say I really fell in love with the Aldmeri start zone, it was amazing. The Ebonheart one.. less so. But it's interesting and to claim that everyone gives up before VR4 is just silly. I understand to some extent the frustration because you get 50 levels in 1 zone then 10 levels in 2.

Grand majority are still here and will be for the foreseeable future. The game is better than I actually expected and the glaring issues you mention are bots (need immediate action) and class bugs which should have never made it out of beta. (yes, as NB I am biased ofc)

I agree that in the future they will need to think of more "end game" content for people reaching V10 but for now, it's just fine and not the Armageddon you're making out.

Alurria

Swampster wrote: »

I think the problem is with the 'am I having fun?' question is, there are probably at present a lot of people kind of inbetween and swaying... in a kind of love/hate relationship with the game!

perfectly understandable


Me for instance, enjoying many aspects of the game and as I previously mentioned think there are aspects that ESO does really rather well.. so yeah all fine and dandy, thoroughly enjoying getting lost in Tamriel then BAM!! something happens (that's not supposed to happen) that leaves me yelling at my screen lol, or just otherwise irritating...

i never get that upset over a game, and it's hard for me to have any sympathy for you sorry it's true.

Simple things like when forming a group for a dungeon run.. trying to ensure everyone has the quest, and we all appear in the same phase of the dungeon can be like trying to navigate some ancient ritual

this is going to be addressed in a patch

As someone posted earlier... it's been the 'best and the worst' pretty much sums it up for me..

Everyone has an opinion about best and worst, maybe you just haven't had as much experience with far worse launches.

Swampster

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

i never get that upset over a game, and it's hard for me to have any sympathy for you sorry it's true.

That's fine, I wasn't asking for any sympathy.. maybe you've never experienced anything as frustrating as some of the bugs I've hit? Or maybe you just have the patience of a saint and I haven't

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

this is going to be addressed in a patch

I wouldn't expect any less, fact remains it's a rather stupid and fundamental problem that should have never got past beta.. and was in this instance just one problem (of very many) off the top of my head used as an illustration..

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Everyone has an opinion about best and worst, maybe you just haven't had as much experience with far worse launches.

Indeed they do and perhaps I have experienced launches that people think were far worse.. and my opinion is that some of the problems I've faced in this game far surpass anything I've experienced in previous games.

As an example I've never experienced a problem in any previous game where I've been left for over 2 weeks unable to play my main character unless I was willing to skip all the dungeons as I levelled thus missing a significant portion of content.