Vet dungeons, what the f***...

DakotaCoty

Okay, not even sure where to begin...

Firstly, the LFG tool - people are using it to jump in queues by queuing as tank or healer and then untagging themselves before the group leader gets to see.

Can this be punishable? It's highly annoying it takes FOREVER to find a dungeon group after 9pm BST. Maybe a 15 minute banishment on queuing or something just to deter morons from queuing like this.

Secondly, dungeons are advertised as V1-5 yet the tank can't keep aggro because he has no AoE taunts? Why the f*** would you build content to support the 'holy trinity' and then completely disregard it? I haven't completed Spindleclutch ONCE after 6 attempts because my party either leaves or they all die.

Which brings me on to my next point; 2k repair bills at V1 because a dungeon is next to impossible to complete? What the heck is that all about?! Groups are a very HIT AND MISS thing and I get countless people telling me that actually, Spindle is for V5+ because of the DPS needed to take down the bosses. If that's the case, why is it in the 1-5 bracket?

I have tried to adapt my build to suit the needs of the party and it just doesn't work... groups are hit and miss, people are abusing the LFG system and nothing is being done about it...

If you want to create content to support the holy trinity, why not give the tanking class a little more health? An AoE taunt that actually makes the trinity 'holy'... Furthermore, why are all the loot drops nearly V5? Surely if people are to adapt to these dungeons then lower level gear should drop too? I've only seen a V2 ring drop from it all.

Lastly, the healers. I know some people may disagree, but PLEASE, remove the option for other healers to queue up if they aren't a templar. Sure, they can be AMAZING off-healers and very handy, but every group I've been with that's a NB, DK or Sorc have failed greatly which causes them to leave.

I know some elitist bigots will argue that skill is key in dungeons, but really, it's not. It's not determined by skill if your tank cannot hold aggro or your healer is a bloody sorcerer with only regeneration abilities.

I think that's my venting done; dungeons have become very unpleasant and hard to complete without using the 'stacking' or 'Wait here while I pull' techniques.

Draconiuos

I think you are thinking the wrong game some where. There is no Tank class any class can tank, and there is no Healer class any class can heal. The Tank is only meant to tank the hardest hitting mobs in a pack and the bosses, hence the reason they have no AOE taunts. The normal mobs are the same as the mobs in the world at the same level. I do agree something should be done about people abusing the LFG system.

DakotaCoty

Draconiuos wrote: »

I think you are thinking the wrong game some where. There is no Tank class any class can tank, and there is no Healer class any class can heal. The Tank is only meant to tank the hardest hitting mobs in a pack and the bosses, hence the reason they have no AOE taunts. The normal mobs are the same as the mobs in the world at the same level. I do agree something should be done about people abusing the LFG system.

Hardly, a normal monster has 2,008 health, in a dungeon 1-5 they have over 3k-4k depending on which monster, the tank mobs are at 11k+...

And what do you mean, this isn't the wrong game. Any class can be a tank and be effective at it, on the other hand, healers can only be Templars for many reasons, one of the most obvious one is that restoration staff provides no direct healing unless the person is standing still in your wave heal or in your AoE bubble, which is most likely NEVER going to happen with all the AoE ***.

In a public dungeon, made for like groups and groups of people you can go swiftly through it, in an instanced dungeon, hell no... you will struggle. Monsters hitting for 60% of your health in 1 hit, what's the point having a 'tank' and 'healer' role if other classes are going to be equally *** at playing it if they aren't built for it?..

esoone

Why templar healer? Best healers i seen sofar were a dk and 2 sorc healers.

Draconiuos

DakotaCoty wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

I think you are thinking the wrong game some where. There is no Tank class any class can tank, and there is no Healer class any class can heal. The Tank is only meant to tank the hardest hitting mobs in a pack and the bosses, hence the reason they have no AOE taunts. The normal mobs are the same as the mobs in the world at the same level. I do agree something should be done about people abusing the LFG system.

Hardly, a normal monster has 2,008 health, in a dungeon 1-5 they have over 3k-4k depending on which monster, the tank mobs are at 11k+...

And what do you mean, this isn't the wrong game. Any class can be a tank and be effective at it, on the other hand, healers can only be Templars for many reasons, one of the most obvious one is that restoration staff provides no direct healing unless the person is standing still in your wave heal or in your AoE bubble, which is most likely NEVER going to happen with all the AoE ***.

In a public dungeon, made for like groups and groups of people you can go swiftly through it, in an instanced dungeon, hell no... you will struggle. Monsters hitting for 60% of your health in 1 hit, what's the point having a 'tank' and 'healer' role if other classes are going to be equally *** at playing it if they aren't built for it?..

Just because your experinces with random people hasn't worked out all the time doesn't mean every person that plays a NB,Sorc,DK healer sucks at it, or all NB,Sorc,Templar tank sucks at it. DK is not a tank class at all there are no taunts in the class at all. Templars do have class heals and make it easier for someone playing them to heal, but doesn't mean no other class can. You are stuck with these preconceived notions that there is a tank class and a healer class.

DakotaCoty

Draconiuos wrote: »

DakotaCoty wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

I think you are thinking the wrong game some where. There is no Tank class any class can tank, and there is no Healer class any class can heal. The Tank is only meant to tank the hardest hitting mobs in a pack and the bosses, hence the reason they have no AOE taunts. The normal mobs are the same as the mobs in the world at the same level. I do agree something should be done about people abusing the LFG system.

Hardly, a normal monster has 2,008 health, in a dungeon 1-5 they have over 3k-4k depending on which monster, the tank mobs are at 11k+...

And what do you mean, this isn't the wrong game. Any class can be a tank and be effective at it, on the other hand, healers can only be Templars for many reasons, one of the most obvious one is that restoration staff provides no direct healing unless the person is standing still in your wave heal or in your AoE bubble, which is most likely NEVER going to happen with all the AoE ***.

In a public dungeon, made for like groups and groups of people you can go swiftly through it, in an instanced dungeon, hell no... you will struggle. Monsters hitting for 60% of your health in 1 hit, what's the point having a 'tank' and 'healer' role if other classes are going to be equally *** at playing it if they aren't built for it?..

Just because your experinces with random people hasn't worked out all the time doesn't mean every person that plays a NB,Sorc,DK healer sucks at it, or all NB,Sorc,Templar tank sucks at it. DK is not a tank class at all there are no taunts in the class at all. Templars do have class heals and make it easier for someone playing them to heal, but doesn't mean no other class can. You are stuck with these preconceived notions that there is a tank class and a healer class.

That's why the population is falling rapidly.

Amfijakerwb17_ESO

esoone wrote: »

Why templar healer? Best healers i seen sofar were a dk and 2 sorc healers.

DK's have 1 ability synergizing with healing, sorcerers have 0 unless you count the mana thingy... They are the 2 superbly worst healers, no contest.

esoone

Load of Bull, like i said there very good healers in the right hands.

DakotaCoty

esoone wrote: »

Load of Bull, like i said there very good healers in the right hands.

And the 'right hands' is someone that's been playing the game for just over a month with all regeneration-based abilities? Well... Okay then. Pretty sure that every single healing class on ANY game has at least 1-3 direct healing skills.

Amfijakerwb17_ESO

esoone wrote: »

Load of Bull, like i said there very good healers in the right hands.

ok when you argue your case this good i cant make a comeback.

Lemoncrap

I personally liked the challenge that the dungeoned offered, fair enough the repair prices can be a bit costly but its nothing too high unless you are shockingly bad. And it is all about skill, you can get bad tanks and good tanks, I myself am a tank and good timed fiery breath or talon can aggro or keep a group of adds/trash at bay. With full health glyphs, full health attributes you can reach upto 4k+ health which is more than enough. What you need to do is find a raiding group or a group of friends to play with if you aren't happy with group finder. With that being said, spindle was the easiest for me, fungal was pretty hard, 2 quits and eventually managed to complete on the 3rd and it felt like a real accomplishment not just something I could complete easily on the first try.

Amfijakerwb17_ESO

Lemoncrap wrote: »

I personally liked the challenge that the dungeoned offered, fair enough the repair prices can be a bit costly but its nothing too high unless you are shockingly bad. And it is all about skill, you can get bad tanks and good tanks, I myself am a tank and good timed fiery breath or talon can aggro or keep a group of adds/trash at bay. With full health glyphs, full health attributes you can reach upto 4k+ health which is more than enough. What you need to do is find a raiding group or a group of friends to play with if you aren't happy with group finder. With that being said, spindle was the easiest for me, fungal was pretty hard, 2 quits and eventually managed to complete on the 3rd and it felt like a real accomplishment not just something I could complete easily on the first try.

4K health? Really? I am surprised if this is really obtainable.

Draconiuos

DakotaCoty wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

DakotaCoty wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

I think you are thinking the wrong game some where. There is no Tank class any class can tank, and there is no Healer class any class can heal. The Tank is only meant to tank the hardest hitting mobs in a pack and the bosses, hence the reason they have no AOE taunts. The normal mobs are the same as the mobs in the world at the same level. I do agree something should be done about people abusing the LFG system.

Hardly, a normal monster has 2,008 health, in a dungeon 1-5 they have over 3k-4k depending on which monster, the tank mobs are at 11k+...

And what do you mean, this isn't the wrong game. Any class can be a tank and be effective at it, on the other hand, healers can only be Templars for many reasons, one of the most obvious one is that restoration staff provides no direct healing unless the person is standing still in your wave heal or in your AoE bubble, which is most likely NEVER going to happen with all the AoE ***.

In a public dungeon, made for like groups and groups of people you can go swiftly through it, in an instanced dungeon, hell no... you will struggle. Monsters hitting for 60% of your health in 1 hit, what's the point having a 'tank' and 'healer' role if other classes are going to be equally *** at playing it if they aren't built for it?..

Just because your experinces with random people hasn't worked out all the time doesn't mean every person that plays a NB,Sorc,DK healer sucks at it, or all NB,Sorc,Templar tank sucks at it. DK is not a tank class at all there are no taunts in the class at all. Templars do have class heals and make it easier for someone playing them to heal, but doesn't mean no other class can. You are stuck with these preconceived notions that there is a tank class and a healer class.

That's why the population is falling rapidly.

SO you have access to ZOS internal server population numbers? Also, after the first month of any MMO the population drops off, because the hype is over. You are now just making wild assumptions without anything to back it up.

shiva7663

The population drops off because the first monthly subscription payment hits.

Amfijakerwb17_ESO

I would agree that the population seem to be dropping quite fast. If i look on last online in my 5 guilds it seems to be more than 50% that stopped playing. I know thats very isolated numbers, but still an indication.

the.dzeneralb16_ESO

It seems like you don't have an issue with vet dungeons, instead just poor communication with your group. I've had all classes as healers, and I've healed/dps'd as a NB through vet dungeons. Communicating with your group and telling seeing strengths and weakness' of each other is part of the teamwork required for these dungeons.

You also seem to have this game confused with a generic one. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I've seen just about every class do every role. I've seen some that were better at it than others, but the only time I've seen people fail really hard are ones are are just bad at playing, and would fail as any class doing anything.

Draconiuos

Amfijakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

I would agree that the population seem to be dropping quite fast. If i look on last online in my 5 guilds it seems to be more than 50% that stopped playing. I know thats very isolated numbers, but still an indication.

I joined a trade guild about 2 weeks ago it is still thriving with 500 members and the guild store getting more pages of items all the time. My main guild always has at least 15+ people on even during off times for the guild.

isengrimb16_ESO

DakotaCoty wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

DakotaCoty wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

I think you are thinking the wrong game some where. There is no Tank class any class can tank, and there is no Healer class any class can heal. The Tank is only meant to tank the hardest hitting mobs in a pack and the bosses, hence the reason they have no AOE taunts. The normal mobs are the same as the mobs in the world at the same level. I do agree something should be done about people abusing the LFG system.

Hardly, a normal monster has 2,008 health, in a dungeon 1-5 they have over 3k-4k depending on which monster, the tank mobs are at 11k+...

And what do you mean, this isn't the wrong game. Any class can be a tank and be effective at it, on the other hand, healers can only be Templars for many reasons, one of the most obvious one is that restoration staff provides no direct healing unless the person is standing still in your wave heal or in your AoE bubble, which is most likely NEVER going to happen with all the AoE ***.

In a public dungeon, made for like groups and groups of people you can go swiftly through it, in an instanced dungeon, hell no... you will struggle. Monsters hitting for 60% of your health in 1 hit, what's the point having a 'tank' and 'healer' role if other classes are going to be equally *** at playing it if they aren't built for it?..

Just because your experinces with random people hasn't worked out all the time doesn't mean every person that plays a NB,Sorc,DK healer sucks at it, or all NB,Sorc,Templar tank sucks at it. DK is not a tank class at all there are no taunts in the class at all. Templars do have class heals and make it easier for someone playing them to heal, but doesn't mean no other class can. You are stuck with these preconceived notions that there is a tank class and a healer class.

That's why the population is falling rapidly.

It isn't ESO's fault that WoW and other MMOs poisoned the idea of an RPG. I NEVER heard of any "holy trinity" before I started playing WoW. A priest-type had to be prepared to defend himself as much as the warrior did - because maybe the warrior won't always be glued to your backside. Also, tabletop tends to limit the number of abilities you can use, one way or another, so your level two AD&D healer is NOT going to just stand there and spam healing spells while everyone else gets beat on - because for one thing, RPG monsters shouldn't be so stupid as to only focus on the guy in the heaviest armour.

ESO monsters/fights are more like RPG fights than I've seen in any video game since, oh, Darksun, maybe. Once I kenned on to how stupidly robotic WoW's monsters/bosses were, oh, ugh, never mind.

Sakiri

If youre dying with a sorc healer use more cc and quit standing in the bad.

Amfijakerwb17_ESO

Draconiuos wrote: »

Amfijakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

I would agree that the population seem to be dropping quite fast. If i look on last online in my 5 guilds it seems to be more than 50% that stopped playing. I know thats very isolated numbers, but still an indication.

I joined a trade guild about 2 weeks ago it is still thriving with 500 members and the guild store getting more pages of items all the time. My main guild always has at least 15+ people on even during off times for the guild.

Well i have guilds with 500 members as well. Most of them just havent been online for a while.

Draconiuos

Amfijakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Amfijakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

I would agree that the population seem to be dropping quite fast. If i look on last online in my 5 guilds it seems to be more than 50% that stopped playing. I know thats very isolated numbers, but still an indication.

I joined a trade guild about 2 weeks ago it is still thriving with 500 members and the guild store getting more pages of items all the time. My main guild always has at least 15+ people on even during off times for the guild.

Well i have guilds with 500 members as well. Most of them just havent been online for a while.

This is actually a normal part of a MMOs first month, especially pay to play. The first month you see a large flood of hype players, and with them a large number of guilds. Then quite a few guilds watch key members leave, i.e. guild leaders, and those guilds die off. Any guild that is not actively recruiting or isn't made up of a tight knit group of friends, will die off, because people come and go all the time.

Sakiri

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

DakotaCoty wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

DakotaCoty wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

I think you are thinking the wrong game some where. There is no Tank class any class can tank, and there is no Healer class any class can heal. The Tank is only meant to tank the hardest hitting mobs in a pack and the bosses, hence the reason they have no AOE taunts. The normal mobs are the same as the mobs in the world at the same level. I do agree something should be done about people abusing the LFG system.

Hardly, a normal monster has 2,008 health, in a dungeon 1-5 they have over 3k-4k depending on which monster, the tank mobs are at 11k+...

And what do you mean, this isn't the wrong game. Any class can be a tank and be effective at it, on the other hand, healers can only be Templars for many reasons, one of the most obvious one is that restoration staff provides no direct healing unless the person is standing still in your wave heal or in your AoE bubble, which is most likely NEVER going to happen with all the AoE ***.

In a public dungeon, made for like groups and groups of people you can go swiftly through it, in an instanced dungeon, hell no... you will struggle. Monsters hitting for 60% of your health in 1 hit, what's the point having a 'tank' and 'healer' role if other classes are going to be equally *** at playing it if they aren't built for it?..

Just because your experinces with random people hasn't worked out all the time doesn't mean every person that plays a NB,Sorc,DK healer sucks at it, or all NB,Sorc,Templar tank sucks at it. DK is not a tank class at all there are no taunts in the class at all. Templars do have class heals and make it easier for someone playing them to heal, but doesn't mean no other class can. You are stuck with these preconceived notions that there is a tank class and a healer class.

That's why the population is falling rapidly.

It isn't ESO's fault that WoW and other MMOs poisoned the idea of an RPG. I NEVER heard of any "holy trinity" before I started playing WoW. A priest-type had to be prepared to defend himself as much as the warrior did - because maybe the warrior won't always be glued to your backside. Also, tabletop tends to limit the number of abilities you can use, one way or another, so your level two AD&D healer is NOT going to just stand there and spam healing spells while everyone else gets beat on - because for one thing, RPG monsters shouldn't be so stupid as to only focus on the guy in the heaviest armour.

ESO monsters/fights are more like RPG fights than I've seen in any video game since, oh, Darksun, maybe. Once I kenned on to how stupidly robotic WoW's monsters/bosses were, oh, ugh, never mind.

Everquest had a trinity.

Draconiuos

Sakiri wrote: »

Everquest had a trinity.

Kind of, but it was more like ESO than anything else, at least before WoW corrupted it. I played a Cleric in Everquest and they let us use mail armor. Why would the main healing class need mail armor if the tank was never expected to lose aggro? The fact is I ended up tanking as a Cleric as the tanks did, because it was easier to use my mail to eat damage than the cloth wearing mage/wizard/enchanter.

Amsel_McKay

Draconiuos wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Everquest had a trinity.

Kind of, but it was more like ESO than anything else, at least before WoW corrupted it. I played a Cleric in Everquest and they let us use mail armor. Why would the main healing class need mail armor if the tank was never expected to lose aggro? The fact is I ended up tanking as a Cleric as the tanks did, because it was easier to use my mail to eat damage than the cloth wearing mage/wizard/enchanter.

EQ is where the trinity came from... tank/healer/dps Warrior/ Cleric / Rogue... I also played a Cleric in EQ from Beta 1998 and won the Cleric BoTB in 99 and 00... a Cleric could not tank, they could survive with CH and Mana stone.

In the big battles Druids could not heal enough, Shammy could not heal enough so you had to use Cleric... SK and Pal could not tank as well as a Warrior... and A Rogue/ Wiz were DPS

Now if you are talking about 2002 EQ they changed the game so a class could fill the (trinity) role, but in Kunark, Velious, Luclin and POP you could only complete big bosses with a War / Cleric... Could a SK and Pal be the main tank? yes but most often then not they were the OT with cleric on heal rotation with mana rods.

WOW wanted the EQ players that like the trinity role and min maxers so they added it to their game... In WOW beta people complained that the roles were not defined enough

starkerealm

Draconiuos wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Everquest had a trinity.

Kind of, but it was more like ESO than anything else, at least before WoW corrupted it. I played a Cleric in Everquest and they let us use mail armor. Why would the main healing class need mail armor if the tank was never expected to lose aggro? The fact is I ended up tanking as a Cleric as the tanks did, because it was easier to use my mail to eat damage than the cloth wearing mage/wizard/enchanter.

Clerics could use mail armor because D&D.

Draconiuos

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Everquest had a trinity.

Kind of, but it was more like ESO than anything else, at least before WoW corrupted it. I played a Cleric in Everquest and they let us use mail armor. Why would the main healing class need mail armor if the tank was never expected to lose aggro? The fact is I ended up tanking as a Cleric as the tanks did, because it was easier to use my mail to eat damage than the cloth wearing mage/wizard/enchanter.

EQ is where the trinity came from... tank/healer/dps Warrior/ Cleric / Rogue... I also played a Cleric in EQ from Beta 1998 and won the Cleric BoTB in 99 and 00... a Cleric could not tank, they could survive with CH and Mana stone.

In the big battles Druids could not heal enough, Shammy could not heal enough so you had to use Cleric... SK and Pal could not tank as well as a Warrior... and A Rogue/ Wiz were DPS

Now if you are talking about 2002 EQ they changed the game so a class could fill the (trinity) role, but in Kunark, Velious, Luclin and POP you could only complete big bosses with a War / Cleric... Could a SK and Pal be the main tank? yes but most often then not they were the OT with cleric on heal rotation with mana rods.

WOW wanted the EQ players that like the trinity role and min maxers so they added it to their game... In WOW beta people complained that the roles were not defined enough

Lol, you remind me of the people that told me I Iksar Dual Wield Warrior could never tank a big boss. There was a lot you could do in EQ if you knew how to work things to your favor. I have watched many of things in EQ and I even got to see a Sleeper raid.

Amsel_McKay

starkerealm wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Everquest had a trinity.

Kind of, but it was more like ESO than anything else, at least before WoW corrupted it. I played a Cleric in Everquest and they let us use mail armor. Why would the main healing class need mail armor if the tank was never expected to lose aggro? The fact is I ended up tanking as a Cleric as the tanks did, because it was easier to use my mail to eat damage than the cloth wearing mage/wizard/enchanter.

Clerics could use mail armor because D&D.

Clerics would only use Plate though... because for the first year no gear had stats other then +1 wis. I remember my first set of bronze armor, I was a god!

Amsel_McKay

Draconiuos wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Everquest had a trinity.

Kind of, but it was more like ESO than anything else, at least before WoW corrupted it. I played a Cleric in Everquest and they let us use mail armor. Why would the main healing class need mail armor if the tank was never expected to lose aggro? The fact is I ended up tanking as a Cleric as the tanks did, because it was easier to use my mail to eat damage than the cloth wearing mage/wizard/enchanter.

EQ is where the trinity came from... tank/healer/dps Warrior/ Cleric / Rogue... I also played a Cleric in EQ from Beta 1998 and won the Cleric BoTB in 99 and 00... a Cleric could not tank, they could survive with CH and Mana stone.

In the big battles Druids could not heal enough, Shammy could not heal enough so you had to use Cleric... SK and Pal could not tank as well as a Warrior... and A Rogue/ Wiz were DPS

Now if you are talking about 2002 EQ they changed the game so a class could fill the (trinity) role, but in Kunark, Velious, Luclin and POP you could only complete big bosses with a War / Cleric... Could a SK and Pal be the main tank? yes but most often then not they were the OT with cleric on heal rotation with mana rods.

WOW wanted the EQ players that like the trinity role and min maxers so they added it to their game... In WOW beta people complained that the roles were not defined enough

Lol, you remind me of the people that told me I Iksar Dual Wield Warrior could never tank a big boss. There was a lot you could do in EQ if you knew how to work things to your favor. I have watched many of things in EQ and I even got to see a Sleeper raid.

"Iksar Dual Wield Warrior" Thats why you were watching the sleeper raid and not tanking it... lol

Dual wield wars were fine because you where a WARRIOR ... The WAR epic was dual wield... (light sabers)

Draconiuos

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Everquest had a trinity.

Kind of, but it was more like ESO than anything else, at least before WoW corrupted it. I played a Cleric in Everquest and they let us use mail armor. Why would the main healing class need mail armor if the tank was never expected to lose aggro? The fact is I ended up tanking as a Cleric as the tanks did, because it was easier to use my mail to eat damage than the cloth wearing mage/wizard/enchanter.

EQ is where the trinity came from... tank/healer/dps Warrior/ Cleric / Rogue... I also played a Cleric in EQ from Beta 1998 and won the Cleric BoTB in 99 and 00... a Cleric could not tank, they could survive with CH and Mana stone.

In the big battles Druids could not heal enough, Shammy could not heal enough so you had to use Cleric... SK and Pal could not tank as well as a Warrior... and A Rogue/ Wiz were DPS

Now if you are talking about 2002 EQ they changed the game so a class could fill the (trinity) role, but in Kunark, Velious, Luclin and POP you could only complete big bosses with a War / Cleric... Could a SK and Pal be the main tank? yes but most often then not they were the OT with cleric on heal rotation with mana rods.

WOW wanted the EQ players that like the trinity role and min maxers so they added it to their game... In WOW beta people complained that the roles were not defined enough

Lol, you remind me of the people that told me I Iksar Dual Wield Warrior could never tank a big boss. There was a lot you could do in EQ if you knew how to work things to your favor. I have watched many of things in EQ and I even got to see a Sleeper raid.

"Iksar Dual Wield Warrior" Thats why you were watching the sleeper raid and not tanking it... lol

Dual wield wars were fine because you where a WARRIOR ... The WAR epic was dual wield... (light sabers)

Nice assumptions bro. If you knew anything about a Sleeper raid you would know it wasn't really raid. Also, it went down before I moved on to playing a warrior and was still using my Cleric as my main.

Amsel_McKay

You could not read the joke in there I guess...

Anyway my guild FoH actually got in trouble for killing the sleeper before he was supposed to be killed/awoke... because the clerics stayed under the bridge and naked wars would get killed over and over and come for a rez with the necros making mass mana rods. it was a good day...

Does not change the fact that EQ made the holy trinity that ESO is trying not to use but the EQ and WOW min maxers will only go for the trinity.

starkerealm

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

You could not read the joke in there I guess...

Anyway my guild FoH actually got in trouble for killing the sleeper before he was supposed to be killed/awoke... because the clerics stayed under the bridge and naked wars would get killed over and over and come for a rez with the necros making mass mana rods. it was a good day...

Does not change the fact that EQ made the holy trinity that ESO is trying not to use but the EQ and WOW min maxers will only go for the trinity.

Again, I'm kinda tempted to point at D&D for the trinity. The Tanks and DPSers go back there anyway. But, it does handle healing differently from anything else, and nukers rarely work the way they did back there. So, EQ (or someone) certainly iterated into the modern version. Combining Mages and Rogues together along the way.