Bots are a GOOD THING.

Nuitar

Aside from the few posts around how seeing a bot ruins immersion or ones ability to craft (I'm sorry, there are more than enough non camped nodes out there), I have to say that I am happy the companies behind them have gone through such effort:

Now look at the games they are selling gold for. Generally, all of the top names are there - now including ESO. Here is why this is a positive marker for the games success:

These gold selling companies are entire offshore teams paid a minimum wage to harvest gold in the most efficient way possible. Below is a GREAT expose on the life of a gold farmer:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/magazine/17lootfarmers-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

That all being said, economic factors come into play when running a gold farming company - namely, 'opportunity cost.'

Opportunity cost means the amount of $ you could have made if your time was spent doing something else. Eg:

10 hours of WoW = $50
10 hours of ESO = $60

These companies have to make money with their farming endeavors or else they would rather spend that time farming in another game.


TLDR: Gold farming in ESO shows that the currency is valued and that people are willing to spend money *outside of their subscription cost* to support the game.

nerevarine1138

Don't go to those sites unless you feel like dealing with having your account compromised. Honestly, people. And you wonder why gold-sellers seem to have an endless stream of accounts?

Aett_Thorn

That does NOT mean that Bots are a good thing. It just means that the currency is valued. But that doesn't mean that Bots should be allowed.

Having to stop to report 10-12 bots an hour because I'm trying to gather crafting materials is not fun for me, and will eventually cause me to leave if its not addressed to the point where I feel that I can fully enjoy the game. Too many bots eventually force out legitimate subscribers, and that is by far NOT a good thing.

lavendercat

interesting point of view.

nice to see another side to it.

i hate the cheating ***. but, they dont affect me that much and i have only seen about 2. (i dont really notice such things)

reggielee

huh?

it would be more palatable if the botters didnt cover the landscape with their scripts, interupt regular players ability to quest, get credit for dungeon and other things and not have to compete with lazy pathetic players in bought top gear and levels.

i dont know why i even responded, obviously a spam to get people to go to their website.

*** off

rioinsigniab16_ESO

Oh my. How short sighted you are. I guess you actually meant "gold farming" rather than botting per say.

I used to joke with my friends how the appearance of bots at launch where a sign that the game is of worth enough for gold farmers to actually setup accounts and spend time on the game. But that was meant as a satirical joke.

Seriously, I suggest you give a little thought to the "bigger picture". For instance, give a little thought to things like:

• Where the money comes from that gold farmers are using to setup accounts in these games. They steal credit card details themselves or obtain them from others (see today's BBC news article in the link below).
• The emotional distress that is put on people who find that their bank accounts have been hacked. Just think about saving up for a house, only to find your savings have been cleared out through no fault of your own.
• How much time and resources it takes in administraction to reclaim the money? Resources that could have been put to good use elsewhere.

And then consider the 1000's of other hackers that are doing the same thing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27472244

So please, think twice before saying that gold farming / botting is a good thing for these games. When someone buys gold from these ***, they aren't "supporting the game" (as you put it) at all. If that was the case, the money would be going to the devs. But it isn't. Instead, it goes to keep the gold farmers doing what they do.

So no. Bots / gold farming will never be a "good thing" for an MMO.

Crassius

So you're saying that the opportunity to sell is in direct proportion to the demand and therefore makes the whole endeavour successful?

The Italian Renaissance called and wants it's perspective back.

Haxer

pretty terrible reasoning. two guys no-clipping through StrosM'kai mining all nodes from beneath/above the map, is NOT good for this game. which is what I experienced this weekend.

i see what you are getting at, that it's evidence of the game being top-tier, which is great. but that only needs to be evidenced once, we got the message, whoo hoo 'we have arrived' -now get them tf out of the game.

Sharee

Nuitar wrote: »

Aside from the few posts around how seeing a bot ruins immersion or ones ability to craft (I'm sorry, there are more than enough non camped nodes out there),

I have made a new templar alt, just for fun. She's level 7, doing quests in glenumbra around the daggerfall city. I have been playing this character the whole evening.

During this time, i have found TWO iron ore nodes that i could harvest. (for comparison, during early access i couldn't make three steps without finding one, in the same area)

I also found a 3rd node with noone around, but when i tried to harvest it, i heard the harvesting sound, got the 'someone is using this' message, and realized it is being harvested by a bot from UNDER the node.

In short, there are not enough non-camped nodes, no matter how sorry you are. The bots make it virtually impossible to gather any materials.

Spiritreaver_ESO

@‌Nuitar

You have taken 'looking at the glass as half full' to the next level.

Kudos.

lee_mcdonaghb16_ESO

How does your support of BOTS sit with your fellow members of the Westboro Baptist community?

TLDR - Gold selling is hurting and will continue to hurt this game and trying to put a positive spin on it is simply delusional and downright bad for the games longevity.

To fix the problem you have to recognise there is a problem not to try and justify it or dismiss it as a positive.

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO

Whether you like bots or not, their presence showcases worthless game design. Not something a developer wants on his/her report card.

daneyulebub17_ESO

If there were NO gold farming at all, it would be a sign of a game that is not doing well. Seeing lots of gold spamming has the bright side of being a sign that the farmers are "endorsing" the game as having the player numbers to make it lucrative.

Of course, that's a very, very small bright side, but it's something.

(The "mega server" though is a factor here--other games, split over different servers, make gold farming a more difficult proposition as bots or player-farmers have to be maintained on multiple servers. So even if this game's population was less than others, the ability to market to everyone on the server from each farmer is a big plus from their point of view I'm sure.)

Phantax

Nuitar wrote: »

Bots are a GOOD THING.

For the love of Jode... this one thinks you are looking for a slap ! ! !

zhevon

I am about as big a Pollyanna as you can get; but this is ridiculous.

Celdryn

lol...wow

Nuitar

@nerevarine1138‌

The way they acquire accounts is by using the same credentials that you input to create an account on their site to log into ESO and request a password change. Simply browsing their site won't hurt, and the worst you will get are retargeting ads.

@ Everyone else -

Understood that the bots does not equate to gold valuation argument. I merely called on it as a symptom.

However, I would say that bot behavior is pretty easy to identify. From running scripts through self made addons to using a keystroke macro to repeat actions, these are things that large games have historically caught onto and eliminated. Some examples from recent memory are Rift, Warhammer, and SWTOR. I am actually quite good friends with the product lead on bot smashing at Trion (Rift).

That being said, it takes time to build systematic measures that deliver NO FALSE POSITIVES. We don't want to be banning gamers who are merely farming themselves - try to distinguish a bot between the army of 30-40 that runs around in a circle in a new zone every 5 levels to grind their way to 50.

rioinsigniab16_ESO

Nuitar wrote: »

@nerevarine1138‌

The way they acquire accounts is by using the same credentials that you input to create an account on their site to log into ESO and request a password change. Simply browsing their site won't hurt, and the worst you will get are retargeting ads.

@ Everyone else -

Understood that the bots does not equate to gold valuation argument. I merely called on it as a symptom.

However, I would say that bot behavior is pretty easy to identify. From running scripts through self made addons to using a keystroke macro to repeat actions, these are things that large games have historically caught onto and eliminated. Some examples from recent memory are Rift, Warhammer, and SWTOR. I am actually quite good friends with the product lead on bot smashing at Trion (Rift).

That being said, it takes time to build systematic measures that deliver NO FALSE POSITIVES. We don't want to be banning gamers who are merely farming themselves - try to distinguish a bot between the army of 30-40 that runs around in a circle in a new zone every 5 levels to grind their way to 50.

Firstly, we mustn't forget that games like GW2 didn't just get rid of the bots plaguing those games overnight. GW2 had them for months. And you are right, devs have to be careful on how they deal with the bots. HOWEVER, that doesnt detract from the fact that bots and gold farming is NEVER a good thing.

Lastly, I'd suggest you stop advocating the safety in visiting those sites. Whilst your assumptions on how gold farmers gain access to these games are very short sighted, telling people that it's ok to visit those sites is NEVER advisable. Ever. In fact, it is downright boneheaded.

Just think about it, you are essentially telling people that these sites are 100% safe to visit and browse (because you think that if someone isn't logging into the site then they are safe), and that using the "services" (and I use that term very loosely) is ok to do. You cannot make such guarantees, and telling people to visit them is doing EXACTLY what the gold farmers are doing in the game.

So either you're a gold farmer trying to advertise for business, or someone who is extremely naive.

Please try to use a little common sense.

Phantax

rioinsigniab16_ESO wrote: »

Nuitar wrote: »

@nerevarine1138‌

The way they acquire accounts is by using the same credentials that you input to create an account on their site to log into ESO and request a password change. Simply browsing their site won't hurt, and the worst you will get are retargeting ads.

@ Everyone else -

Understood that the bots does not equate to gold valuation argument. I merely called on it as a symptom.

However, I would say that bot behavior is pretty easy to identify. From running scripts through self made addons to using a keystroke macro to repeat actions, these are things that large games have historically caught onto and eliminated. Some examples from recent memory are Rift, Warhammer, and SWTOR. I am actually quite good friends with the product lead on bot smashing at Trion (Rift).

That being said, it takes time to build systematic measures that deliver NO FALSE POSITIVES. We don't want to be banning gamers who are merely farming themselves - try to distinguish a bot between the army of 30-40 that runs around in a circle in a new zone every 5 levels to grind their way to 50.

Firstly, we mustn't forget that games like GW2 didn't just get rid of the bots plaguing those games overnight. GW2 had them for months. And you are right, devs have to be careful on how they deal with the bots. HOWEVER, that doesnt detract from the fact that bots and gold farming is NEVER a good thing.

Lastly, please stop advocating the safety in visiting those sites. Telling people that it's ok to visit those sites is NEVER advisable. In fact, it is downright boneheaded. You are essentially telling people that these sites are 100% safe to visit, and browse and that using the "services" (and I use that term very loosely) is ok to do. You cannot make such guarantees and telling people to visit them is essentially doing EXACTLY what the gold farmers are doing in the game.

Please try to use a little common sense.

Agreed.

However (in my opinion) anybody that goes to these sites with the intention of buying gold deserves to have their account hacked and subsequently banned. Serves them right ! ! !

rioinsigniab16_ESO

Phantax wrote: »

Agreed.

However (in my opinion) anybody that goes to these sites with the intention of buying gold deserves to have their account hacked and subsequently banned. Serves them right ! ! !

I completely agree.

jkbennettb14a_ESO

Sharee wrote: »

Nuitar wrote: »

Aside from the few posts around how seeing a bot ruins immersion or ones ability to craft (I'm sorry, there are more than enough non camped nodes out there),

I have made a new templar alt, just for fun. She's level 7, doing quests in glenumbra around the daggerfall city. I have been playing this character the whole evening.

During this time, i have found TWO iron ore nodes that i could harvest. (for comparison, during early access i couldn't make three steps without finding one, in the same area)

I also found a 3rd node with noone around, but when i tried to harvest it, i heard the harvesting sound, got the 'someone is using this' message, and realized it is being harvested by a bot from UNDER the node.

In short, there are not enough non-camped nodes, no matter how sorry you are. The bots make it virtually impossible to gather any materials.

I share this point of view. Bots are a blight on this game that need to be terminated with extreme prejudice.

During early access there were enough iron deposits littering Bleakrock to sink a large ship. Last time I leveled an alt through there I found less than 5 in an hour and a half.

These days the starter zone are much more empty than launch, so it wasn't other players. I walked into a cave for a quest and saw a node so I ran up to mine it. Instead of ore I get the "someone else is using this" message and see the little ****'s head sticking up through the ground.

I realize they will never 100% get rid of em, but this is more like a bot infestation. Never seen this many bots in a game, ever.

Melian

The OP reminds me of people who tell me I should be glad when scary guys follow me down the street making obscene comments because it proves I'm attractive. In both cases, nope.

alanspurlock_ESO

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Don't go to those sites unless you feel like dealing with having your account compromised. Honestly, people. And you wonder why gold-sellers seem to have an endless stream of accounts?

wait.. so you actually believe, that if you just visit the site and then leave, by some form of internet witchcraft they have your eso account info?

JJDrakken

Says a bot master.

Please go away.

nerevarine1138

alanspurlock_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Don't go to those sites unless you feel like dealing with having your account compromised. Honestly, people. And you wonder why gold-sellers seem to have an endless stream of accounts?

wait.. so you actually believe, that if you just visit the site and then leave, then they have your eso account info?

I know that sites like that are loaded with malware, and I know that there were countless Blizzard accounts compromised in instances where people only visited a site and ended up with a keylogger. The real question is whether you're actually naive enough to believe that phishing is the only way they can get your info.

alanspurlock_ESO

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

alanspurlock_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Don't go to those sites unless you feel like dealing with having your account compromised. Honestly, people. And you wonder why gold-sellers seem to have an endless stream of accounts?

wait.. so you actually believe, that if you just visit the site and then leave, then they have your eso account info?

I know that sites like that are loaded with malware, and I know that there were countless Blizzard accounts compromised in instances where people only visited a site and ended up with a keylogger. The real question is whether you're actually naive enough to believe that phishing is the only way they can get your info.

You know?

Sources of a article stating that a ad could actually install a keylogger?

nerevarine1138

alanspurlock_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

alanspurlock_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Don't go to those sites unless you feel like dealing with having your account compromised. Honestly, people. And you wonder why gold-sellers seem to have an endless stream of accounts?

wait.. so you actually believe, that if you just visit the site and then leave, then they have your eso account info?

I know that sites like that are loaded with malware, and I know that there were countless Blizzard accounts compromised in instances where people only visited a site and ended up with a keylogger. The real question is whether you're actually naive enough to believe that phishing is the only way they can get your info.

You know?

Sources of a article stating that a ad could actually install a keylogger?

Look up Javascript and Flash vulnerability. Look at the WoW CS forums. Look pretty much anywhere that tells you about how malware works. You do not need to click an installation button to get your system infected.

alanspurlock_ESO

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

alanspurlock_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

alanspurlock_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Don't go to those sites unless you feel like dealing with having your account compromised. Honestly, people. And you wonder why gold-sellers seem to have an endless stream of accounts?

wait.. so you actually believe, that if you just visit the site and then leave, then they have your eso account info?

I know that sites like that are loaded with malware, and I know that there were countless Blizzard accounts compromised in instances where people only visited a site and ended up with a keylogger. The real question is whether you're actually naive enough to believe that phishing is the only way they can get your info.

You know?

Sources of a article stating that a ad could actually install a keylogger?

Look up Javascript and Flash vulnerability. Look at the WoW CS forums. Look pretty much anywhere that tells you about how malware works. You do not need to click an installation button to get your system infected.

Well I know that lol. I would hope my 4 year daughter know what too.

But malware.. that can install a keylogger.. which actually needs to pigyback off a exe and install dll's to run the functions to record, then email back to the hacker.... seems far fetched.

I don't know. Never needed to look into these things in the past.. 10 years lol. Used to have fun with sub7 back in the day, but I thought it was nearly impossible to install loggers without being piggyed on a exe or at least opening some sort of file.

alanspurlock_ESO

wait wait wait.. now I remember why I started to use adblockplus. Cuase I did have a freaking "fake" antivirus program install through ads.

God my memory is terrible now.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

alanspurlock_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Don't go to those sites unless you feel like dealing with having your account compromised. Honestly, people. And you wonder why gold-sellers seem to have an endless stream of accounts?

wait.. so you actually believe, that if you just visit the site and then leave, then they have your eso account info?

I know that sites like that are loaded with malware, and I know that there were countless Blizzard accounts compromised in instances where people only visited a site and ended up with a keylogger. The real question is whether you're actually naive enough to believe that phishing is the only way they can get your info.

Not trying to rain on your parade, because like you i would not venture onto a site knowing that they had bad intentions. Even if i knew i was safe. But it is also silly to call someone naive when you seem to believe that countless blizzard accounts were compromised by just going there. Yeah i remember the post. I didn't click anything, i never bought gold, he is my friend he wouldn't lie to me.

It has always been funny to me, people always say i wish people that do this stuff would get what is coming to them. But when a friend or guildmate gets what is coming to them, oh no, I know them, they would never!! Yes yes they would.

SDZald

Ummmmm no, Bots are NOT a good thing on so many levels.