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Guilds - Mistakes, Changes, Suggestions
Phantax
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There seem to be more and more posts about guilds lately and frankly its not unreasonable. The implementation of guilds/guild functionality in this game is terrible. Zenimax were trying to be clever when really... if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Multi-guilds = Really bad idea.
There is one big problem that occurs when you have multiple-guild options. People tend to swap/hop around (even if they do stay in the game). One guild per player has always worked better, it promotes team spirit and build stronger friendships.
It's my feeling that Zeni only went down the multi-guild route to help justify their 'bad decision' not to make a global auction house !
Guilds do split the community and in part this is a good thing. You are never going to manage a faction wide guild, there are too many players with too much diversity. BUT a multi-guild system only fragments that even more. One person - One guild - it works (it works very well)
Guild Banks / Stores
Guild banks are fine, they do what they are intended. People can deposit stuff (or gold) for the betterment of their guild. A lot of people (myself included) make stuff purely to help the lower level players gain better gear, although with ESOs crafting system this isn't as needed. Other stuff such as potions, buffs and foods are easily stored and obtained as needed.
Guild stores... really ! Firstly guild members shouldn't sell to other guild members, they should donate/give items to guildies. (in Rift and GW2 I ran guilds and this was always in the guild rules) Guildies/team-mates, call them what you will are not there to be made a profit from ! The implementation of guild stores has only served to fragment the community and ruined any chance of ESO having a dynamic economy.
Each faction should have their own 'Global' auction house !
Upcoming Guild Changes-
•Guild functionality updates: guild store interface updates, customizable guild insignias, tabards, and guild ranks, and Guild Kiosks—guild stores open to everyone that are available to the highest-bidding guild.
Customizable guild insignias, tabards, and guild ranks. Brilliant, it works, its always worked. Tabards and insignias have always served to give guilds a sense of identity, not to mention its always nice to see fellow guildies walking around a town.
Guild Kiosks—guild stores open to everyone that are available to the highest-bidding guild.
OMG are you joking ! "available to the highest-bidding guild" Which idiot came up with this idea? Elitism gone mad ! Mega guilds are going to run the show while smaller guilds are going to be constantly left out. Way to go there Zeni on segregating the community even more !
Guild Halls / Insignias
Frankly, something that should have been in the game from the start. For a game that's own lore focuses so much on guilds this should have been obvious. Anyway, there is time yet and Guild Halls need to be put into the game. For obvious reasons we can't have a guild hall in every town BUT.. each faction does have what is considered a capitol city and that's where the guild halls should be based. Implementation is easy enough, this game already has a decent phasing system so just implement that to guild members/halls.
This also means that there doesn't need to be dozens of halls in each city. One building as a dedicated guild hall, phased so that only members of a certain guild can use their guild hall.
As guild insignias are going to be added to the game this also ties in well with guild halls. Once a Guild leader has set up their guild, designed an insignia they are set to open a guild hall. (Maybe here certain criteria need to be met. min 10 guild members, 1000 gold fee to buy the hall) and away you go, you now get access to your own guild hall
(Guild hall showing insignia for that particular guild)(excuse the dodgy flag it was quick...lol)
Guild halls are also a great place to show of your guilds achievements. Each time a guild reaches a milestone a new flag/insignia should be shown on the walls.
-50 members
-5000g in Guild Bank
-10,000 mobs killed
(you get the idea) This again serves to guild a guild/team sprit, which in turn leads to greater immersion into the game world.
Guild Halls are something that the RP community have been crying out for since before launch (and rightly so) but its not only the RPers that benefit from them, the whole community does. Guild halls are a focal point, a place to meet, somewhere to work for to make them better.
A game like ESO with such a depth of lore needs guilds, and need them to be done properly ! A sense of belonging, more team spirit, better immersion and a little bit of inter-guild competition all stem from having a good guild system. Zenimax need to realise this and act on it, sooner rather than later !
Edited by Phantax on May 17, 2014 10:03AM Multi-guilds = Really bad idea.
There is one big problem that occurs when you have multiple-guild options. People tend to swap/hop around (even if they do stay in the game). One guild per player has always worked better, it promotes team spirit and build stronger friendships.
It's my feeling that Zeni only went down the multi-guild route to help justify their 'bad decision' not to make a global auction house !
Guilds do split the community and in part this is a good thing. You are never going to manage a faction wide guild, there are too many players with too much diversity. BUT a multi-guild system only fragments that even more. One person - One guild - it works (it works very well)
Blackwidow wrote: »This is one big problem that occurs when you have multiple-guild options. People tend to swap/hop around (even if they do stay in the game). One guild per player has always worked better, it promotes team spirit and build stronger friendships.
100% agreeIt's my feeling that Zeni only went down the multi-guild route to help justify their 'bad decision' not to make a global auction house !
That was exactly why. That was the only reason they gave for doing it that way.
Guild Banks / Stores
Guild banks are fine, they do what they are intended. People can deposit stuff (or gold) for the betterment of their guild. A lot of people (myself included) make stuff purely to help the lower level players gain better gear, although with ESOs crafting system this isn't as needed. Other stuff such as potions, buffs and foods are easily stored and obtained as needed.
Guild stores... really ! Firstly guild members shouldn't sell to other guild members, they should donate/give items to guildies. (in Rift and GW2 I ran guilds and this was always in the guild rules) Guildies/team-mates, call them what you will are not there to be made a profit from ! The implementation of guild stores has only served to fragment the community and ruined any chance of ESO having a dynamic economy.
Each faction should have their own 'Global' auction house !
Upcoming Guild Changes-
•Guild functionality updates: guild store interface updates, customizable guild insignias, tabards, and guild ranks, and Guild Kiosks—guild stores open to everyone that are available to the highest-bidding guild.
Customizable guild insignias, tabards, and guild ranks. Brilliant, it works, its always worked. Tabards and insignias have always served to give guilds a sense of identity, not to mention its always nice to see fellow guildies walking around a town.
Guild Kiosks—guild stores open to everyone that are available to the highest-bidding guild.
OMG are you joking ! "available to the highest-bidding guild" Which idiot came up with this idea? Elitism gone mad ! Mega guilds are going to run the show while smaller guilds are going to be constantly left out. Way to go there Zeni on segregating the community even more !
Guild Halls / Insignias
Frankly, something that should have been in the game from the start. For a game that's own lore focuses so much on guilds this should have been obvious. Anyway, there is time yet and Guild Halls need to be put into the game. For obvious reasons we can't have a guild hall in every town BUT.. each faction does have what is considered a capitol city and that's where the guild halls should be based. Implementation is easy enough, this game already has a decent phasing system so just implement that to guild members/halls.
This also means that there doesn't need to be dozens of halls in each city. One building as a dedicated guild hall, phased so that only members of a certain guild can use their guild hall.
As guild insignias are going to be added to the game this also ties in well with guild halls. Once a Guild leader has set up their guild, designed an insignia they are set to open a guild hall. (Maybe here certain criteria need to be met. min 10 guild members, 1000 gold fee to buy the hall) and away you go, you now get access to your own guild hall
(Guild hall showing insignia for that particular guild)(excuse the dodgy flag it was quick...lol)
Guild halls are also a great place to show of your guilds achievements. Each time a guild reaches a milestone a new flag/insignia should be shown on the walls.
-50 members
-5000g in Guild Bank
-10,000 mobs killed
(you get the idea) This again serves to guild a guild/team sprit, which in turn leads to greater immersion into the game world.
Guild Halls are something that the RP community have been crying out for since before launch (and rightly so) but its not only the RPers that benefit from them, the whole community does. Guild halls are a focal point, a place to meet, somewhere to work for to make them better.
A game like ESO with such a depth of lore needs guilds, and need them to be done properly ! A sense of belonging, more team spirit, better immersion and a little bit of inter-guild competition all stem from having a good guild system. Zenimax need to realise this and act on it, sooner rather than later !
High Elf Sorcerer VR12 - Destro / Resto Staff
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !
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Phantax✭✭✭✭✭
✭OK, so I thought I'd hunt round the forums and find some quotes/ideas that other players have put forward -lichmeister wrote: »100% yes.
selling to guildmates goes against my nature: i have always crafted for my guild for free (ill happily take donations, though!)
the economy is really all over the place because the players cant at a glance figure out what a fair value is.auction houses make crafting obsolete. 100% NO
If anything makes crafting obsolete Cures, it's giving us an economy that makes it exceedingly difficult to get enough of the rarer materials you need to utilize said craft to begin with.
Which is why most people just hoard materials until they reach level 50. And the potential of crafting is never fully taken advantage of during a majority of the character's levels.
So if you really want to make crafting matter more, the best way to do it would be to give us a public marketplace capable of supplying these materials on a consistent basis (an auction house). That way crafting could be fully utilized through-out the character's life-span. And not just at level 50 due to a poor economy.auction houses make crafting obsolete. 100% NO
If anything makes crafting obsolete Cures, it's giving us an economy that makes it exceedingly difficult to get enough of the rarer materials you need to utilize said craft to begin with.
Which is why most people just hoard materials until they reach level 50. And the potential of crafting is never fully taken advantage of during a majority of the character's levels.
So if you really want to make crafting matter more, the best way to do it would be to give us a public marketplace capable of supplying these materials on a consistent basis (an auction house). That way crafting could be fully utilized through-out the character's life-span. And not just at level 50 due to a poor economy.lichmeister wrote: »100% yes.
the economy is really all over the place because the players cant at a glance figure out what a fair value is.
currently zone chats in EVERY zone are flooded with people trying to sell stuff. why? because the guild stores are simply not working well enough!
Some people really enjoy this aspect of the game. I feel smart when I buy from the cheap guild and sell to the pricy one. I wish I wasnt limited to 30 items for auction though. I really have to be choosy about what I try to sell but maybe this is for the best. Also I dont mind at all the open trading in zone chat. It reminds me of EQ and I always enjoyed that part of the game.
You just solidified my points that small markets are inherently less efficient than large ones...and by having a series of small markets (the most members a guild can have is 500) you are baking in orders of magnitude of higher inefficiency than you would with larger auction house markets. This is EXACTLY what happens in small inefficient markets where YOU LIMIT ACCESS.
This person is exploiting (not sploitin, I am not claiming he is doing something illegal) their TERRIBLE design of the fractured markets in this system. What happens when someone doesn't HAVE ACCESS to the "cheap guild" and they have NO TOOLS to see what prices should be, or are in the "cheap guild"? They SUFFER FROM HUGE INEFFICIENCIES and price distortions...this is what HAPPENS IN SMALL MARKETS with poor information. They are INNATELY MORE INEFFICIENT. This is so obvious it pisses me off with the lack of basic economic knowledge exhibited in this thread.
And @ladyinthewater, how is this situation, where you have people exploiting small markets where consumers have NO TOOLS and NO INFORMATION to gauge pricing and supply and demand - HOW IS THIS POSSIBLY better than the robust, large set of tools an auction house like GW2 has??? It isn't. It isn't even close. If you haven't played gw2 or seen their auction house, I suggest you check it out...the market data they provide is great.
Essentially, if you want a good market, it needs to be large, and everyone needs to have access to the same information, with no BARRIERS to entry or transactions. Sorry, but if you can't grasp this, learn some more before you post in this thread. Not trying to be rude, it just isn't fair to other posters for some people to be so wrong about the basics. I believe the ONLY reason we don't have an AH in this game is because Zeni cant pull it off yet with the megaservers.Oh look another Auction House thread. You know there is a Search function on this forum and a plethora of auction house related threads that already exist that you could have easily contributed to right?
To be honest, I think this is such a significant issue there can't be enough threads about it. In fact, I would prefer the forums be filled with them every day on every minute and have them being read aloud to the developers constantly during their waking existence.
The economy on this game is awful. I can hardly sell anything. I can't never find anything I need. It's such a hassle that I usually just end up selling things to a NPC vendor and try to content myself with crafting whites for myself. And though I can't really blame people for doing it - since this game nearly forces you to if you want to have any kind of economic activity - the constant trade spam is a nuisance.
This is a shame also. Because I really love this game and would be enjoying it so much more if I could actually participate in an economy that works so I could progress my character in style.
I've harped on this a lot myself. I know. But it can't really be said enough. Because if anything is going to drag this game down, it's this issue IMHO.I too believe that housing would make for a better game, It's something that has become a part of TES, so why not online. Yes, I understand the complexity, but other MMO's do have it.
If I was to guess, I'd say it would be an update later on down the line, after broken quest fixes, console release and so on.I'd like to see housing even if it worked exactly like other ES games and was just instanced to you when you used it. I'd have NO problem with that. I agree though housing should not have been an after thought in an ES MMO
And finally I just had to add this one as it made me laugh -
Sometimes you just want to go to your own little hole in the world, say "screw you Tamriel!" slam your front door, go eat a sweet roll, maybe make some horker stew and be antisocial for a while.
Someday... :'(
High Elf Sorcerer VR12 - Destro / Resto Staff
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !0 -
I recently added a post on my suggestions for what guild banks should be. It didn't get many responses but I'll add the link here for posterity:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/95460/what-the-guild-bank-should-be#latest0 -
KhajiitiLizard✭✭✭✭✭I like having multiple guilds. I'm in an RP guild so it would be nice to have a more serious guild for pvp and stuff. Limiting to a single guild is not a very good idea.0