"Too much questing" - is the reason I hear when guildmembers stop.

wOOOOt_of_SD

Many MMO's previous to ESO have failed more or less, based on bug's, missing content, no endgame, missing balance etc. etc.

And looking forward to ESO for a long time, I was wondering if there would be something specific to ESO, that would kill the fun for many players?
Im not saying ESO is dying or even has a problem here, but i know that many of my guildmembers are simply giving up now - not because they are tired of bugs, combat or missing content. No the game is great, but it is "The Neverending Story"!

Im 50V10 now, because I have had a lot of spare time. It took me +10 days /played.
And I know im not fast. V10 can be done in maybe 5-6 days /played - If you know exactly what to do and where to do it. But 90% of the players dont have that knowledge, and they are happy when they hit lvl 50. The road to 50 feel like other mmo's. Its a good length, very good story and great experience.

But then comes the Veteran mountain of "Lets do it all over again 2 more times"

Im not complaining, but I worry, because lots of players will never make it to V10 and endgame. And with no endgame in sight, they just throw in the towel, and give up.

Forced questing and story is fine to lvl 50.
The Veteran ranks should have been MUCH more optional and free. Free to quest, free to just grind mobs for GOOD xp, and free to join PVP for GOOD xp..
Mob kills and PVP xp is a joke. And the continued forced storyline - Cadwells Almanac, should NOT be forced, but free to experience for those who want.

There are simple too much content - that is Forced upon you, in ESO!

Yankee

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Forced questing and story is fine to lvl 50.
The Veteran ranks should have been MUCH more optional and free. Free to quest, free to just grind mobs for GOOD xp, and free to join PVP for GOOD xp..
Mob kills and PVP xp is a joke. And the continued forced storyline - Cadwells Almanac, should NOT be forced, but free to experience for those who want.

There are simple too much content - that is Forced upon you, in ESO!

While I do not personally mind the Vet questing, I do agree with you.

And we have some guild members, who would normally stick around just to play with the guild, leaving for the same reasons.

NordJitsu

Cyrodil really is the shinning star of this game.

Its the only place you have a sand box. Its the only place where content isn't forced down your throat, but you can pick and choose your activities. Its the only place where death actually matters so its the only place where you try not to die. The thrill of OW-PvP is there. You can explore and you aren't punished by leveled content.

Its really the only place I have consistent fun.

The PvE zones are hit or miss. Sometimes the story is good, sometimes not. Even when its good, I get bored of doing the same thing for long enough. There's no dueling to break up the pace. No real player activity of any sort. Everything is handholdy and fairly easy now (because they nerf everything.)

I tend to be an alt-a-holic in MMOs. I like to make many different characters and get them all to max level. This game discourages me from doing that because I don't want to play through all the same quests again.

After 1.1 I'll supposedly be able to level in PvP due to more player XP, more daily quest XP, and more PvP-quest XP. But it still won't be as fast and, more importantly, I'd still be leaving behind all those skill points from quests, skyshards, and dungeons.

Its discouraging, even though I still love the game.

Artemiisia

im so tired of hearing the word end game.....


1 what is end game
2 how do u keep going if its end game, many complain about lack of end game content after the reach "endgame"
3 knowing how to grind the "hell" out of the game like you did, dont mean u know the game, u just know how to get to the end fast, I do too, I just dont do it. your choice for sure thats how u like to play the game I respect that, what I dont like is people grinding the game, and then come to forums and complain about lack of end game content
4 veteran grinds, u choose to do that if u want, it just takes longer


and lol there is too much content, you say, lol thats the first I have ever heard, complaining about having to much

stevenpotter321b14_ESO

I think you misheard them, they are saying there is too much boring content that is required to effectively level in this game currently. Not that there is simply too much content.

Artemiisia

thats my point, they say boring content, or lack of end game content, but never actually come up with ideas how to improve the game it self.

dont just come with the problem, show the solution to it
without it actually hurting the game as it was made for, slow leveling

liquid_wolf

From about Level 45, I've done nothing but PvP.

I'm currently VR 2, and imagine I will finish up Bangkorai and Coldharbor when I hit VR4/5.

Mostly because I don't want to deal with the grind... I'd rather enjoy the content even if it means smashing through it at +5/10 levels.

The VR Grind is just a scary thought... even though I'm the guy who Raided three times a week... every week... and ran dungeons whenever I could for gear.

I know the grind is essentially the same, but something about the VR Grind just feels... off.

I'll get to it eventually... in the meantime there is PvP to be had.

stevenpotter321b14_ESO

I would disagree it being made for slow leveling, as it was really made for Cyrodiil and end game content. All MMOs are made for endgame, which is why expansions build on endgame far more often than new starting and intermediate zones, players are at endgame the majority of a games life. You can state that MMOs dont have endgames, but most players see max level and availability of 'best' gear as end game.

I still think that the whole exp grind right now was an effort to slow down the majority of players from reaching v10 prior to craglorn and trials being in game. Artificially slowing growth though is terrible when you know there is a decent sized part of the community that will blow through it no matter what, and in doing so gets both gear improvements and stat bonuses that make them better than the average player in for example cyrodiil.

Artemiisia

thats your personal opinion that its build around cyrodil, and why because you like that zone, thats alright.

Eso spend years building the zones, quests, putting voice over for npcs, making 40.000.000 different items, their statement not mine. Why spend so much time and effort into all the other zones, if that aint part of the game?

I ask again though, once you reach the end, get the best gear, what then?

wOOOOt_of_SD

NordJitsu wrote: »

Cyrodil really is the shinning star of this game.

Its the only place you have a sand box. Its the only place where content isn't forced down your throat, but you can pick and choose your activities. Its the only place where death actually matters so its the only place where you try not to die. The thrill of OW-PvP is there. You can explore and you aren't punished by leveled content.

I agree.

The problem is, that every day that passes, more and more ding V5+, and anyone below V5, and especially belov lvl50 are outgunned. Every day that passes, the need to be V5+ and preferable V10 is getting bigger.
In 1-2 months, everyone in Endgame (love that MMO word!) PVP, will be V10, so you are simply forced through the storylines to V10 to be able to compete.

Some say that V1-10 is a part of the endgame. But its not. Its just more quest and xp grinding you have to do - you are forced to do, if you want to have fun in PVP.

Vuron

Artemiisia wrote: »

thats your personal opinion that its build around cyrodil, and why because you like that zone, thats alright.

Eso spend years building the zones, quests, putting voice over for npcs, making 40.000.000 different items, their statement not mine. Why spend so much time and effort into all the other zones, if that aint part of the game?

I ask again though, once you reach the end, get the best gear, what then?

The game was absolutely built around Cyrodiil. It was marketed that way until very recently. If you go back and look through all the press releases, videos, interviews, etc. you will see that the vast majority discuss AvAvA and Cyrodiil. The game was originally designed for the 3 races per alliance and no VR content. Once you finished your alliance area, you would need to create an alt to experience the other areas. Cyrodiil was meant to be the end-game until the release of the Adventure Zones.

The OP was not complaining about lack of end-game content. He said his guild mates, and I know of many, many others that were discouraged by the lack of leveling options. We used to be able to level by many different means (PvP, repeatable quests in Cyrodiil, dungeon grinding, and mob grinding). These options were slowly taken away in an attempt to make everyone level by questing. There are many people that dislike questing and would prefer the other options that we used to have.

Yankee

Vuron wrote: »

There are many people that dislike questing and would prefer the other options that we used to have.

The feedback I have got from people is not so much questing to level 50. It is being forced to quest another 100 levels (what is called VR1-10). People not married to questing just get tired of it long before VR10.

For quite some time in WoW, years after I was burned out on 25 man raids, being GM of a guild, etc I still played random PVP battlegrounds (until bots ruined that). I farmed materials and/or mobs for hundreds of thousands of gold and played the AH game just because, although mindless, it was somehow a tension release after a long work day (lol no I was not a gold seller). And I gladly paid the sub all that time even though I used a small fraction of the game content.

So not always, but sometimes, I would not mind just grinding mobs in an area for some decent XP and materials.

ZOS taking away any reasonably efficient way to level besides quests and group VR dungeon grinding was a mistake that is costing them subscriptions IMO.

Tarwin

XP in PvP would be something to look forward to, even if they just make it once getting to Vet1 . At level 47, I'm ready for a change and have done little PvP. It would be great to grind out while PvPing. Also, be creative in the PvP exp rewards, for assisting, dragging out seige gear and forward camps etc

Reward participation

Vuron

@Yankee‌

I 100% agree. I think that doing the quests to get to 50 is fine and should probably even be required. I would have loved to break up my time by grinding some dungeons or some mobs, but there is no point once you hit VR. The entire VR system seems like an afterthought and forces many people to do something they have no interest in doing.

Strangely, until right before launch and even a little after launch, we could do other things to level. I'm dumbfounded as to the reasoning to try to force everyone to quest. What is the big deal if someone wants to grind the same dungeon for days at a time?

A large number of people bought this game planning to PvP. They didn't buy this game planning to go through 150 levels of questing before they were viable in Cyrodiil. The game was advertised, marketed, and tested with the assumption that you could start to PvP at level 10. We've known for months that level 10's were going to have a difficult time in Cyrodiil, but it was possible. The problem now is that if you start to PvP at level 10 and do nothing else, that it would take forever to hit VR10.

Skulclutter

I enjoy the way they have things set up. I much prefer questing over doing the same dungeon / boss over and over again and I'm not really a big fan of PVP.

I wouldn't say no to more options, but I would still end up doing the questing all the way up to V10 anyway.

Tarwin

Skulclutter wrote: »

I enjoy the way they have things set up. I much prefer questing over doing the same dungeon / boss over and over again and I'm not really a big fan of PVP.

I wouldn't say no to more options, but I would still end up doing the questing all the way up to V10 anyway.

Absolutely, no point in taking anything away from questers and people aren't asking for a mass revamp of PvP. Just give a reason to PvP instead of taking the questing road.
Something very refreshing with "options" and not pigeon holed onto a single path

morashtakb16_ESO

Artemiisia wrote: »

thats my point, they say boring content, or lack of end game content, but never actually come up with ideas how to improve the game it self.

I have, see any of my recent posts in other threads. To summarize;
More zones - The starting area is fine but then kick us out to a race specific zone (yep, "play all races in any faction" was a mistake, imo). Make us care about our choice of race and why they are what they are. Finish up with the quests we have now that bring the races together. Cap at level 50.
VR levels were a mistake and killed re-playability. Get rid of them.
Bring back the repeatable PvP player kill quest but fix it so no more afk kills are awarded. Do some damage and get a kill, die and no more kills are awarded until you rez.
To do some or all of the above they can pull a FFXIV - beg forgiveness, re-make it, and release ESO:Reborn.

BrassRazoo

NordJitsu wrote: »

Cyrodil really is the shinning star of this game.

Its the only place you have a sand box. Its the only place where content isn't forced down your throat, but you can pick and choose your activities. Its the only place where death actually matters so its the only place where you try not to die. The thrill of OW-PvP is there. You can explore and you aren't punished by leveled content.

Its really the only place I have consistent fun.

The PvE zones are hit or miss. Sometimes the story is good, sometimes not. Even when its good, I get bored of doing the same thing for long enough. There's no dueling to break up the pace. No real player activity of any sort. Everything is handholdy and fairly easy now (because they nerf everything.)

I tend to be an alt-a-holic in MMOs. I like to make many different characters and get them all to max level. This game discourages me from doing that because I don't want to play through all the same quests again.

After 1.1 I'll supposedly be able to level in PvP due to more player XP, more daily quest XP, and more PvP-quest XP. But it still won't be as fast and, more importantly, I'd still be leaving behind all those skill points from quests, skyshards, and dungeons.

Its discouraging, even though I still love the game.

What a completely opinionated crock of ....

As if death in PvE is not penalized. Reapir cost and the use of Grand Soul Gems are two penalties that add up. Not everyone is rich and can afford constantly repairing. Bosses cant really be farmed so Grand Soul Gems are not free anymore.

PvE Zones hit and miss? Sure, but I'm quite sure I have ready umpteenth threads about unbalanced populations on PvP Servers or whatever it is you PvP'ers hang out on.

Complaints about skill OP this Nerf that .. yeah sounds like a real shining light.

Dharmabum

Not being a fan of PvP in any MMO, I love the endless questing. Granted things can get repetitive but if you pay attention, there is always a new story line and/or challenge. As long as my character can develop both stat wise and story wise, I have motivation to continue. In the grand tradition of RPGs, there shouldn't be an endgame until you quit.

BrassRazoo

I stopped at V10 can be done in 5/6 days.

Not by questing it can't.

I am either massive slow or just doing that arse backwards.

I have played since early access (5-Days + 1 for downtime), have not had one day off, played on average about 8 to 10 hours a day, 7 days a weeks and have just hit V7.
This is now on 30 days or just over.

So, yeah grinding in dungeons and stuff, maybe, exploiting the quests and bugs early on yes, questing .. I don't think so.

Pendrillion

It really is a daunting prospect. I concur with much what has been said. I guess one of the real issues in this game is the diversity of the players. A good deal of folks come from different gaming fields. Even the MMO players aren't just some homogenic mass which can be appeased with one fitting concept. We have RPers we have Solo players, we have PVPers we have folks looking for raid and group content.

With the franchise that Zenimax puts out they really have a big task in getting things out that will keep the folks focused on the game. Therein lies one big problem. So far they managed to feed us a lot of what we expected. EVEN THOUGH we have all different preferences. But by end of the day, whats more unnerving a system that totally fails your expectations, or the one that meets your expectations but has some small stuff that unnerves you? I don't know but the latter feels much more annoying than the former.

For me thats the source of all the confusion. We all love the franchise. We all love games. But for everyone there is something that annoyingly puts us off at some turn of the game. And it sometimes feels like someone is slapping my face. I really like the game so far. At some point I feel a bit too guided through the world. Yet I even enjoy going back in those Zones I have completed. I love how they designed the lands. I was so happy to return to Morrowind.

I am still thinking how I will handle the progress of my Dunmer. Will I go to Cyrodiil with him? He seems to be a bit mis - skilled for PVP. He is a good crafting char. I started a Altmer as Mule alt. to spread at least some of my mats a bit. And I have a Breton Sorcerer that could help me through other parts of Tamriel. Or should I focus and play that content through the Veteran ranks?

Most sign indicate that I should spend time on level all my alts to 50. Since I hear Veteran questing is kind of turning back the wheel of time in every Zone.

I am undecided...

Rosveen

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

thats my point, they say boring content, or lack of end game content, but never actually come up with ideas how to improve the game it self.

I have, see any of my recent posts in other threads. To summarize;
More zones - The starting area is fine but then kick us out to a race specific zone (yep, "play all races in any faction" was a mistake, imo). Make us care about our choice of race and why they are what they are. Finish up with the quests we have now that bring the races together. Cap at level 50.

"it should be noted here that it is always foolish to think of whole races sharing like minds."

Any race in any faction was an excellent decision. People have a multitude of reasons to leave home, to work with or for strangers. Sometimes they aren't strangers at all; if you were born and spent your whole life in High Rock, why would you suddenly travel halfway across the world and join the war against Bretons?

But they could make us care about our faction. I do care about mine. So why do I have to work for the others now?

A better solution? As someone said in another thread, release Craglorn as an alternative way of leveling for VR1-10. Simple. Doesn't make us feel that we have to go through another 100 levels to enjoy the new content.

ShADoW0s

Artemiisia wrote: »

im so tired of hearing the word end game.....


1 what is end game
2 how do u keep going if its end game, many complain about lack of end game content after the reach "endgame"
3 knowing how to grind the "hell" out of the game like you did, dont mean u know the game, u just know how to get to the end fast, I do too, I just dont do it. your choice for sure thats how u like to play the game I respect that, what I dont like is people grinding the game, and then come to forums and complain about lack of end game content
4 veteran grinds, u choose to do that if u want, it just takes longer


and lol there is too much content, you say, lol thats the first I have ever heard, complaining about having to much

1) End game is where you reach the end of the story told within the game, this is the part of the game where everything opens up - you are able to do everything and anything you want. Mostly this will contain running very hard dungeons and crafting the best gear in the game.

2) Well this is an MMO, at this part of the stage you roll alts, help friends/people, give advice try everything or just stand around and talk. People are complaining about end game in ESO well because there is NO end game currently. Is there Vr10 Potions? No, Is there Vr10 Glyphs? No, Is there any good crafting sets for Vr10? Well you guessed it No.

3) End game is not reaching the end of the questing/story line, refer to 1 and 2.

4) Why should it talk longer?, this game was built to play as you like, just because someone likes grinding mobs, dungeons or PvP, the highlight of the game for that matter, why should they get punished for that? I sure dont like grinding, but I sure dont like running around doing quests because of a story loophole either, would like some options, is that not what this game was about?

Too much content? No, its just recycled content jammed down everyone's throats.

Pendrillion

I just want to add... We "whine" on a very high level. Since we just started this voyage, I am sure we get more opportunities in the game. I mean hell... One month down... I will have a recap in 3 or 4 months again...

Gaudrath

stevenpotter321b14_ESO wrote: »

I think you misheard them, they are saying there is too much boring content that is required to effectively level in this game currently. Not that there is simply too much content.

Boring content? Doing veteran ranks now and so far haven't ran into a single boring quest - provided you actually bother to read or even better, listen to quest NPCs, ask questions and all that jazz. If people just click through dialogs, run off to quest markers, click on them, run back to the quest giver and click on him, yeah, that would be boring. But it's their fault then.

As for PvP XP, I hope they will give us an option to actually turn it off entirely. I love to PvP. I don't like to level via PvP because it then makes my PvE game a pushover since I'm always overleveled.

Sakiri

Artemiisia wrote: »

im so tired of hearing the word end game.....


1 what is end game
2 how do u keep going if its end game, many complain about lack of end game content after the reach "endgame"
3 knowing how to grind the "hell" out of the game like you did, dont mean u know the game, u just know how to get to the end fast, I do too, I just dont do it. your choice for sure thats how u like to play the game I respect that, what I dont like is people grinding the game, and then come to forums and complain about lack of end game content
4 veteran grinds, u choose to do that if u want, it just takes longer


and lol there is too much content, you say, lol thats the first I have ever heard, complaining about having to much

What is endgame?

Endgame is that lovely place in an mmorpg where youre level capped and safe to upgrade gear quality without worry itll be replaced tomorrow.

Endgame is that sweet spot in pvp where if youre getting your ass kicked its because you suck and not because they outleveled you.

Endgame is level cap, when meaningful content happens. Where the sungeons arent once and done because youre there for gear and not quests because the kill xp sucks.

Its where the game *starts* for raiders and competitive pvpers.

Thats "endgame".

tanthil

And for all the people feeling this way already and not even nearly finished leveling.. myself included. Hearing that they are increasing the level cap twice in the next 2 content updates.. well.. LOL

Idk it feels like they are designing this game right into a very specific niche category that i want no part of, but i wont give up yet its to early to really draw these conclusions. Its just the way it feels to me right now

frwinters_ESO

Sometimes I wonder if there is a group of people, who probably complain the most about questing, who never played an Elder Scrolls game. What was Elder Scrolls? Completing Quests! That's the game! You quest to make the real better for your people. Hell the developers do a great job changing the environment when you complete different quests. Towns rebuild themselves, in some quests mobs that were your enemy no longer aggro towards you because you helped them in some way. Your actions change your environment around you. It should be appreciated. If you didn't have quests you would just be grinding mobs all day with the only goal is to level. Doesn't anyone care for immersion anymore? Don't you want to be part of the story?

I am gonna create the next great MMO called LevelQuest. Its one zone filled with monsters and all you do is kill them and grind to level 134. No story. Awesome Anime-ish graphics, detailed character creation system. No point but to level, get gear then have one Raid dungeon where you need 234 members or one solo option that's impossible to do since we have to have some sort of solo play. I think Ill make millions.

zhevon

The best thing about ESO is the questing; yes some of the quests are lame - but on the whole why I am playing.

frwinters_ESO

Most games have quests. Whats the problem with questing? All Elderscrolsl games had quests, you quest! Thats what you do. Dont like questing kill world bosses, go into some dungones, take a nap, what ever.

wOOOOt_of_SD

About 3 weeks ago I warned you with this thread.
Now our guild is down from 130 active accounts to about 40.
Daily activity has dropped from 20-30 online to 5-10.
Now summer is coming, Wildstar released, and my very high hopes and love for ESO is dissapearing faster than a bowl of chocholate in front of my girlfriend ;p