What is the point of reporting bots is ZOS just leave them to do their thing?

Tavore1138

Not sure what the expected response time is for stuff like this but I made ZOS aware of an area with an in game report ticket and specifically named a couple of bots so they could act - a day later they are still happily doing their thing unmolested by any action from ZOS.

It takes a bit of time, not loads but some, to take the trouble to spot bots & report them - if ZOS are not going to act then what is the point of us making the effort?

Soon the game is just going to be bots and when the bot runners realise the rest of us have gone they too will stop playing.

Kililin

Get to VR, the fight is lost in 1-49 areas.

Tavore1138

I am VR5 so normal questing play is fine but... there are (or were) some good areas in lower level areas where you would put in a couple of hours to get a decent number of ores etc to break down so you had decent chance at some good crafting mats... without risking having your face eaten by mobs as you did so.

Due to the low drop rates of purple/gold improvement mats you need to harvest scary rates of ore to keep yourself in decent equipment

steveb16_ESO46

I agree with the OP and have had the same experience. The bots I report are quite obvious bots. You only have to watch them and their stack for a few seconds. Then you can ban and account close.

Loxy37

I suspect they are gathering as many names as possible and they will ban hammer as many as possible in one go. Why do you thing the police raid many houses at once? When you have the answer you will know why Zenimax is playing the waiting game.

AlexDougherty

Loxy37 wrote: »

I suspect they are gathering as many names as possible and they will ban hammer as many as possible in one go. Why do you thing the police raid many houses at once? When you have the answer you will know why Zenimax is playing the waiting game.

Police raid as many houses at the same time as possible to preserve evidence, so noone can call their mates and tell them to dump the drugs/weapons/counterfeit perfume/etc.

This doesn't really apply to this type of cybercrime, since all the evidence ZOS need is on their end.

GossiTheDog

I don't know if anybody saw the thread I had with the video of the thousands of Coldhabour bots and a suggestion on how they could deal with, but Zenimax emailed me overnight to say they deleted the thread, that they've known about it for a long time, and that's that.

I wouldn't bother reporting bots.

Dita

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Not sure what the expected response time is for stuff like this but I made ZOS aware of an area with an in game report ticket and specifically named a couple of bots so they could act - a day later they are still happily doing their thing unmolested by any action from ZOS...

If you waiting on response from staff here, you'll probably get automated response from a bot, if lucky within hours, most likely days or weeks, saying: " Insert pre made message here", and that will be it. They getting owned, by the bots - end of a story. Sad, but true.

bobsrevenge

can understand what you are saying but report them is the way forward ,these things do take time , every company has a policy of dealing with issues like this and they have to follow their policy .
so carry on reporting them game will deal with them some issues will take time

Arwyn

bobsrevenge wrote: »

can understand what you are saying but report them is the way forward ,these things do take time , every company has a policy of dealing with issues like this and they have to follow their policy .
so carry on reporting them game will deal with them some issues will take time

When you watch a GM zone in, kill a few and then leave while more bots are streaming in you lose any faith you may have had they are on top of it.

Every problem they fix the bots find another and in a game this large its going to take years to get them all, by the time they do the game will be largely unusable for everyone else, look at some of the current fixes, boss loot timers and container nerfs, both of these might have helped combat bots in those areas but they have made the system ugly for the honest players...

Korozenn

Right now, there's an influx of bots that the GMs are having to deal with in certain zones such as Bleakrock Isle and Coldharbour. As I can only personally speak for the former, I can say that there are literally hundreds of bots farming nodes in Bleakrock Isle daily across multiple instances.

It's an ongoing issue that ZeniMax is working towards, but by no means does that mean you should not report botting. Any form of botting, RMT, spam associated with it, or people caught in the act of doing hacking, cheating, exploiting, etc., are in direct violation and you have every right to report them as such.

GossiTheDog wrote: »

I don't know if anybody saw the thread I had with the video of the thousands of Coldhabour bots and a suggestion on how they could deal with, but Zenimax emailed me overnight to say they deleted the thread, that they've known about it for a long time, and that's that.

I wouldn't bother reporting bots.

This is because it was clear enough to ZeniMax that this was an issue. While the video certainly helps show them how bad it got, it doesn't do anything but stir up controversy and unnecessary accusations towards the company and/or the vulnerabilities of the server as a whole from the community, which isn't good to have on the official forums of the game.

As I said before, I would report botting or any other type of illegal action performed in-game as soon as you see it happen to the best of your ability. Your video helped in bringing light to the issue, but it's best to take the route ZeniMax prefers you to do and report any instances of botting using the /help or Report Player functionality in-game or by sending customer support an e-mail, if nothing else gets through. Otherwise, how is ZeniMax supposed to know which areas are and aren't going through issues with botting?

GossiTheDog

Any form of botting, RMT, spam associated with it, or people caught in the act of doing hacking, cheating, exploiting, etc., are in direct violation and you have every right to report them as such.

Of course you have a right to. I'm just saying, you have a right not to. I'm done paying to play test this game for Zenimax.

It wasn't my video by the way, the video is doing the rounds online. It's top voted topic at Reddit. Zenimax's response was to delete it from their forum - going to go down well.

GossiTheDog

Actually - update. Although Zenimax ditched the topic, they actually hotfixed the game overnight and fixed the issue: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/97083/coldharbour-the-hollow-city

I am now less angry.

Yet again, the way to get some action on something is to go public, and not try to talk to ZOS directly.

Crassius

Korozenn wrote: »

...lots of words...

On the other side of the coin, blind idealism will not help either.

KerinKor

GossiTheDog wrote: »

Actually - update. Although Zenimax ditched the topic, they actually hotfixed the game overnight and fixed the issue:

Er no, they didn't FIX anything, they did the usual: nerf content for legit players because dealing with the root cause, the GOLD BUYERS and their suppliers THE BOTS, is too hard for them and they have no idea how to deal with it.

Tavore1138

For now I'll report but I too am feeling like I am paying to test a game that was not really ready to cope with the challenges & where the teams working on problems are over their heads.

The lack of any comms from ZOS is unhelpful, we just get press releases telling us wonderful it will be to be able to dye our armour while those of us playing know that we'll be lucky to grab enough ore from the bots to be able to make any armour in the first place let alone the quantities needed to get the drops to improve it.

At that point all the early exploiters who sat on duped crafting mats will move in to exploit frustrated players.

Seems like every move they make seems to harm the normal player and make them more exploitable by those willing to do so.

Loxy37

AlexDougherty wrote: »

show previous quotes

Loxy37 wrote: »

I suspect they are gathering as many names as possible and they will ban hammer as many as possible in one go. Why do you thing the police raid many houses at once? When you have the answer you will know why Zenimax is playing the waiting game.

Police raid as many houses at the same time as possible to preserve evidence, so noone can call their mates and tell them to dump the drugs/weapons/counterfeit perfume/etc.

This doesn't really apply to this type of cybercrime, since all the evidence ZOS need is on their end.

Wrong to some extent and you missed my point. If ZoS banned just a few, bots would be alerted, adapt, hide or whatever. Banning them all In one swoop will hurt them and they may think twice about investing back into all those account + theres a major benefit to ZoS in sitting back and just watching what they do and then building a solid defence against them because you cannot defend again a hidden enemy, you have to know their strengths, weakness and numbers.

KerinKor

Loxy37 wrote: »

show previous quotes

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Loxy37 wrote: »

I suspect they are gathering as many names as possible and they will ban hammer as many as possible in one go. Why do you thing the police raid many houses at once? When you have the answer you will know why Zenimax is playing the waiting game.

Police raid as many houses at the same time as possible to preserve evidence, so noone can call their mates and tell them to dump the drugs/weapons/counterfeit perfume/etc.

This doesn't really apply to this type of cybercrime, since all the evidence ZOS need is on their end.

Wrong to some extent and you missed my point. If ZoS banned just a few, bots would be alerted, adapt, hide or whatever. Banning them all In one swoop will hurt them and they may think twice about investing back into all those account + theres a major benefit to ZoS in sitting back and just watching what they do and then building a solid defence against them because you cannot defend again a hidden enemy, you have to know their strengths, weakness and numbers.

That's the alibi trotted out by Blizzard, Trion, Square Enix and every other MMO developer with a bot problem .. meaning pretty much all of them . and it demonstrably fails as an argument because their games are as bottable as ever in spite of years' of 'study'.

Fact is players suffer hugely, all the time while ZOS et. al. are allegedly "studying the bots" in order to deal with them. Then, when the finally decide to do something what happens?

The next wave of bots engulfs us within hours because the bot writer has already many '0-day' exploits in the pipleline .. that's why the 'inivisi-bot' problem seem to have been solved but their absence was brief., to give one example.

The end result is that the pain to players barely ends and the whole pointless cycle repeats.

Turbine shows the only way to deal with RMT is BAN THE BUYERS and ban bots on sight. LOTRO is still botted but the pain to players is minimal, the effect on the economy is non-existent and LOTRO is the only game I play (6 of them right now) where I never see a bot nor feel its effects, though I know from the web they still exist.

Every other MMO dev. that uses the 'studying' excuse has failed, some like Anet mitigate the effect by having mechanics like per-player resource nodes (as does FFXIV) which means bot at least don't f-up legit players trying to level crafting.

ZOS will never rid the game of the mechanics bots use, far better and more experienced MMO developers have tried and failed, ZOS should be focused in immediate bans and implementing mechanics that immunise legit players from RMT as much as possible : and in LOTRO Turbine have shown that works very well.

Sylv3r

@Loxy37
+1

Chirru

Bot s win...end of discussion...end of my subscription...unless things improve drastically. No further comment...

Kyle_Roberts

Chirru wrote: »

Bot s win...end of discussion...end of my subscription...unless things improve drastically. No further comment...

You've been on the forums for the past week crying about how your going to unsub from the game, just leave? or do you seriously have *** all better to do with your time?

Valdorn_Devereau

I was in Haj Uyith doing the Wisdom of Ages quest. The room where you put the treated wood into the vats to make the fire hotter was overwhelmed with bots. I couldn't even do the quest. Level 41 thru level 49 trying to jump over the vats and the stairs. Also looked like some speed cheats going on as well. Every time an enemy respawned they would sworm them like a hive of bees and take them out before you can hit them. It was fricken ridiculous.

steveb16_ESO46

KerinKor wrote: »

Turbine shows the only way to deal with RMT is BAN THE BUYERS and ban bots on sight. LOTRO is still botted but the pain to players is minimal, the effect on the economy is non-existent and LOTRO is the only game I play (6 of them right now) where I never see a bot nor feel its effects, though I know from the web they still exist.

LOTRO also shows how you design a game so as to make life hard for botters, not easy. ESO needed to have been designed defensively so as to make life impossible for botters. Instanced dungeons with re-entry timers. No 'travel to player' to exploit, no client side stuff to make movement and speed hacks easy, no fixed resource spawn points etc etc.

crislevin

They are running in the sky now, this game is completely hacked from the ground up, i wouldn't be surprised they did not pay a dime to get the game after all.

bobsrevenge

we all can say do this and that , first of all they cant show their full hand 2nd most companys will want to know how they are doing these things so that will take time to do , so you have to leave some bots to find out how they are exploiting the code , then you can move forward but soon as they ban/stop some more will have found other ways.
so its a process and will take some time so the best way forward is report them
eso is doing their part so give them time ,
it was reported many was banned and new ones found other ways this I think is the case , so carry on reporting is the way forward by reporting gives eso the chance to see how they exploiting the game so help them to help you enjoy the game more

steveb16_ESO46

Well I hope ZMO have something awesomely effective planned for soon otherwise they might need to go nuclear.

Ban all inter-account gold transfers. Make motifs account-bound. Flag, hold and check any Guild sale over 3 times to vendor price, be absolutely clear that all present and past members of a gold sellers guild (where the dodgy trades to convey large sums of gold take place) will have accounts suspended pending review, auto boot and time lock after killing a boss 3 times, no travel to player, auto-ban any account that collects x resource in y seconds.

I'd also reduce the need for gold by filling in gold sinks such as repair bills (as well as making anything rare and valuable account bound).

I would also consider whether there might be a need to develop a system whereby players could turn gold into sub time and money into gold.

Yes - this is all drastic and yes it will impact on players. But at the moment the bot problem is completely out of control and getting worse by the day.

I don't believe they have a plan, I don't think they have a strategy. They seem to have been caught by surprise and find themselves playing catch up with an industry that has many years experience countering counter-measures and more resources.

The correct answer would have been - don't make your game design so easily exploited in the first place.

Medium term they need to identify all the game design elements and technical implementations that make the botting possible and change it.

GossiTheDog

KerinKor wrote: »

show previous quotes

GossiTheDog wrote: »

Actually - update. Although Zenimax ditched the topic, they actually hotfixed the game overnight and fixed the issue:

Er no, they didn't FIX anything, they did the usual: nerf content for legit players because dealing with the root cause, the GOLD BUYERS and their suppliers THE BOTS, is too hard for them and they have no idea how to deal with it.

I hardly call removing 282 gold reward from a single quest a nerf, to be honest. Of course, the wider point (which I've suggested to 'em in private) is to limit Coldhabour (and other areas) to relevantly levelled characters. There is no reason level 3 characters should be in Coldhabour.

AlexDougherty

Loxy37 wrote: »

Wrong to some extent and you missed my point. If ZoS banned just a few, bots would be alerted, adapt, hide or whatever. Banning them all In one swoop will hurt them and they may think twice about investing back into all those account + theres a major benefit to ZoS in sitting back and just watching what they do and then building a solid defence against them because you cannot defend again a hidden enemy, you have to know their strengths, weakness and numbers.

I presume they'll adapt immediately anyhow, as for building a solid defense against them, you can't do that on a system that's online. As for their strengths and weaknesses, no, all you learn are the strengths and weaknesses of those particular bots, and their numbers too.

When it comes to digital defenses you can't really use these tactics, because it's like herding cats, you go one way, they rush past you in every other way. You really need to plug the gaps they are using, and prosecute when you can, anything else is a pipedream.

Mind you it would be good pR for them, and we'ld get a few days without bots, and maybe without the goldsellers too (doubt it, but maybe).

KerinKor

bobsrevenge wrote: »

we all can say do this and that , first of all they cant show their full hand 2nd most companys will want to know how they are doing these things so that will take time to do , so you have to leave some bots to find out how they are exploiting the code , then you can move forward but soon as they ban/stop some more will have found other ways.

I debunked this worn out excuse MMO developers use in another thread so I'll not repeat it here.

tl;dr - Square Enix have been 'studying;' bots since 2002, Blizzard have been 'studying' bots since 2004, Trion have been 'studying' bots since 2011, .. FFXI, FFXIV, WOW and Rift are riven with bots of one kind or another.

Turbine don't trot out this crap, LOTRO is as bot-free as I've seen because they took action rather than spout spin.

I have no love for Turbine given what they've done to LOTRO to appease the bean counters at their corporate masters, but I will give credit where I think it's due.

I see no prospect of ZOS dealing with this in the way they're going, no other MMO dev. to my knowledge has succeeded and ZOS has no experience in MMOs so has made the same mistakes as everyone else made early on as a result, they have 15+ years of RMT infestation of MMOs to 'study', they failed to even glance!

zeuseason

Botimax now runs Elder Scrolls Online. And don't ever forget it.

Tavore1138

I don't think anyone expects them to be able to remove all botting in one hit but right now the approach seems to be to ignore it and hope we are all dumb enough to keep paying anyway... same approach as with all the other problems.

On reflection the time making this would have been better spent making a straight sequel to the offline games and avoiding the huge PR disaster this game must be becoming for them. The reputational damage in the gamer community is not easily going to be repaired.