Blocking suggestion

Nooblet

Blocking is getting increasingly frustrating. Normal use is fine, but the issue lies with people who simply hold block. This should really not be possible. I'm all for strategically blocking abilities and such but this should be something that is done as a reaction, not simply held down.

Not sure if it has already been suggested or not, but Holding down block should drain your stamina even if you aren't currently blocking something, and increase the drain the longer it is held down. Make this into what I believe it was intended for.. a temporary use to react to spells/strong skills being used against you.

I don't typically call for nerfs on things, and I would hope this could be done in a way that makes normal use of blocking not effected, but eliminates the spam block method that involves 0 skill or timing.

Morne30b16_ESO

i agree, good idea

Obscure

The real issue with blocking is that it is maintained while using a wide range of abilities. Covers the activation to prevent interruption. Holding block isn't that big of a deal, but being able to block and attack and heal and wtfe you can cast while holding block is an issue.

Unless they change it consider it a good habit to use block to cover your skill activations...though with the volume of combat bugs present in the game it's difficult to determine "exploit" from "pro tip". It'll all come out in the wash over the next few months I suppose.

barigood54_ESO

Then you dont know how to use 'block'---you are supposed to hold block with the right mouse button and tap the left button to attack while blocking...it kills more than it fails...

codybrewer78b14_ESO

It does drain stamina to hold block, but at higher levels your stamina regen is so high it isn't that big a cost.

Nooblet

codybrewer78b14_ESO wrote: »

It does drain stamina to hold block, but at higher levels your stamina regen is so high it isn't that big a cost.

Took me a whole 10 seconds to log onto a level 3 alt to confirm you are 100% incorrect. Holding block does not drain any stamina, unless you actually block something. I'm not saying it doesn't use stamina to block, but that it should not be something you can simply hold down and block anything and everything without even thinking about when to hit the button(It will use stamina for each block, but it should penalize you for simply holding it down instead of using it strategically).

Axer

No making it HARDER to block effective as a tank is not the answer. Tanking the hardest VR dungeon boses in this game is NOT easy, and does require careful stamina manangement and proper gear/passives. Especially elden hollow as you ahve to spend a lot on dodging too.

However I agree, blocking is too effective for non sword n board tanks.

Solution:
Lower base blocking mitigation without a shield to 35%, increase base block cost to about 500 stam at VR10 (scales down for lower lvls as it does now - current cost is about 350 stam btw). (Shield equipped base amount remains 50%)

Then increase sword and board blocking passive cost reduction to 20/40 (current 15/30).

HEAVILY increase the cost for blocking PLAYER attacks only - say around +50% cost. As imo this is mainly a pvp complaint. PvE dps types do still die fast and often to trash, blocking or not.

3 simple tweaks should mitigation the two handed/duel wield/destro staff hold rightclick OP dragonknights murdering us in pvp without risk while blocking.

(sword and board DK remain ultra powerful, however they have slightly limited dps so its more balanced then say destro). (And to fix that issue: Buff the non dk clases DPS so its inline).

Nooblet

Or just make blocking not possible in PvP? I don't know the exact solution... But people holding down their block button in PvP is pretty annoying.

I don't tank so I'm not sure on all the mechanics of blocking in PvE, but blocking vs dungeon bosses should be a very situational use for strong attacks imo. You are saying that you are using block much more often than that? I can't fathom that to be the case that you are intended to block every couple seconds, but I guess I could be wrong.

Therium104

Are you serious? So you tried to kill a tank that blocked and your solution is to remove this ability from tanks. Rather nerf it.

My god. The devs must read this crap and laugh.

Therium104

Nooblet wrote: »

Or just make blocking not possible in PvP? I don't know the exact solution... But people holding down their block button in PvP is pretty annoying.

I don't tank so I'm not sure on all the mechanics of blocking in PvE, but blocking vs dungeon bosses should be a very situational use for strong attacks imo. You are saying that you are using block much more often than that? I can't fathom that to be the case that you are intended to block every couple seconds, but I guess I could be wrong.

I think they need to make it so sorcs cannot cast spells and NB cannot use offensive abilities in pvp. It is so overpowered that other classes I don't play can use abilities. This travesty needs to be stopped. How dare ESO allow this horror to occur.

Balance!

Nooblet

Therium104 wrote: »

Are you serious? So you tried to kill a tank that blocked and your solution is to remove this ability from tanks. Rather nerf it.

My god. The devs must read this crap and laugh.

No... every other player is sword/shield and simply holds their block button down..

Have you even been in Cyrodiil? It's definitly a problem. Sure I can run away, which is what sorc is good at... But who plays PvP to run away from fights, or wait around till someone is out of stamina before they can do any significant damage.

Romboldt

My two copper:

- I wasn't aware that abilities could be used while blocking. This is madness. If you're blocking, you're ONLY blocking. Fix that, should be common sense.

- I think it would be sensible and engaging to have stamina cost for a block relate to the strength of the attack. Blocking a pea-shooter should be much easier than blocking a heavy attack from a titan.

- PvP Blocking cost needs adjusting. I don't care how tanky a person is, if there are 10 people wailing on them they should be exhausted and dead in a matter of seconds.

- Consider taking positioning into account. Even the largest of shields can't protect 360degrees. Experiment with the effective arc a shield should protect and leave the rest unprotected. As a side note I suspect this would have a relatively minor impact on dungeons but be a huge boon to dealing with the ever-block in pvp.

Wifeaggro13

Nooblet wrote: »

codybrewer78b14_ESO wrote: »

It does drain stamina to hold block, but at higher levels your stamina regen is so high it isn't that big a cost.

Took me a whole 10 seconds to log onto a level 3 alt to confirm you are 100% incorrect. Holding block does not drain any stamina, unless you actually block something. I'm not saying it doesn't use stamina to block, but that it should not be something you can simply hold down and block anything and everything without even thinking about when to hit the button(It will use stamina for each block, but it should penalize you for simply holding it down instead of using it strategically).

They already nerfed to cost a standard amount of stam. the reason why? because there is no other reason to use the SNS line. its garbage onther then its passives and blocking. Also there are encounters in VR dungeons that require to to block damn near full time to survive while holding two or three bosses at a time. it used to use stam on how much damage you took i believe . Now its a flat rate for each block.

Murmeltier

I hope they buff the Blocking and Damage Mitigation in PvE and PvP. In every Game with PvP it is a shame when Fights are too fast and Players dont have the Chance to play tactical because they bursted in several secounds down.

That is no Skill, more an Ambush + some Rotation (2-3 Skills, same every Time) that kills the other Player. PPL comes out of the Stealth/Sneak and kills Players in a CC-Lock or Groups zergs Players down.

Most of them uses Builds and Skillrotation they found in the I-Net. They dont need to think self, only want to kill fast. If the Enemys are defendig themselves or hittin back, they cry for a nerf.

That makes no Fun if you run around, be killed too fast through this Situations and need to run back from the Spawnpoint. If Players can better defend themselves or have more HPs, the Fight last longer and you need to think about Tactic and Action/Reaction, because you can do it before you hit the Ground. Otherwise it is only the use of some learned Scripts they call Tactic or Skill.

So, there is a Charakter who uses Block all the Time (otherwise, how you will block on Reaction if most of the Skills are instant?) then you need another Tactic as the 2-3 Buttonspam to burst them down easily.

For PvE i hope they give the Players more Damagemitigation with Heavy Armor and Shield because the Mobs in Veteranranks are hittin too hard. I dont have the feeling to wear Heavy Armor if i fight them.

Teso have this fine Blocksystem, it is new and in Work. Need this System some Input or Workaround/Patches, yes it will. It needs Time but i hoped it stays to make Fights last longer and more tactical in PvE and PvP.

MFG Murmeltier.

ArRashid

Jeez, another bunch of PvP whinners..
Get a life boys.

Blocking without shield passives already block less than 50% damage, and even less for spell damage.
If it blocked even less, then no class would be viable in PvE solo play. Even now you have problems with melee mobs as pyromancer since to root them you have to enter their range (with block up) and still end up roughed up and at zero stamina by the time you kill them.

So don't worry, unless you fight a stamina based character (which is usually tank or melee - which cannot swing weapons while blocking anyway - results just in bash, which deals near zero damage unless it's a specced tank with the right jewelry enchants), your foe will be at zero stamina REALLY soon. Especially if you are not in 1vs1.


Actually, wall-blocking is the 'fair' mechanics here. Just admit how many of you abuse animation cutting with shield bash instead, to deal double dps.. since bashing without hitting anything costs zero stamina but cancels otherwise really long animations.

Xsorus

lol...Here is what would happen in any large pvp encounter as a tank with the op suggestion.

They'd charge in, and instantly die...Because Blocking is really the only way to stay up in this game for longer then 3 seconds when being hit by more then 1 person.

Nooblet

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol...Here is what would happen in any large pvp encounter as a tank with the op suggestion.

They'd charge in, and instantly die...Because Blocking is really the only way to stay up in this game for longer then 3 seconds when being hit by more then 1 person.

Are you talking about charging into 30 players by them self? Then yes.. they should die almost instantly, please explain what you are sacrificing to be a "tank" in pvp. If you want to keep that type of survivability, dmg of tanks needs to be nerfed substantially, and blocking while dealing dps is absolutely ridiculous. Blocking was put in place to re actively block attacks by anticipating incoming hits imo. If ESO comes out and says blocking is working as intended, and they inteded that players simply hold down block until out of stamina while dealing dps.. then I will kindly shut up.

In an ideal world in my opinion.. Tanks should have about 3x the survivability, and do about 3x less dps. That being from a pure tank, to a pure dmg dealer. With some specs being somewhere in the middle.

Wifeaggro13

Nooblet wrote: »

Blocking is getting increasingly frustrating. Normal use is fine, but the issue lies with people who simply hold block. This should really not be possible. I'm all for strategically blocking abilities and such but this should be something that is done as a reaction, not simply held down.

Not sure if it has already been suggested or not, but Holding down block should drain your stamina even if you aren't currently blocking something, and increase the drain the longer it is held down. Make this into what I believe it was intended for.. a temporary use to react to spells/strong skills being used against you.

I don't typically call for nerfs on things, and I would hope this could be done in a way that makes normal use of blocking not effected, but eliminates the spam block method that involves 0 skill or timing.

You realize its currently the only way you PVP guys will ever get any of the Trials done. is by having a SNS tank Mitigationg large damage on bosses so you whinners can get loot

Nooblet

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

Blocking is getting increasingly frustrating. Normal use is fine, but the issue lies with people who simply hold block. This should really not be possible. I'm all for strategically blocking abilities and such but this should be something that is done as a reaction, not simply held down.

Not sure if it has already been suggested or not, but Holding down block should drain your stamina even if you aren't currently blocking something, and increase the drain the longer it is held down. Make this into what I believe it was intended for.. a temporary use to react to spells/strong skills being used against you.

I don't typically call for nerfs on things, and I would hope this could be done in a way that makes normal use of blocking not effected, but eliminates the spam block method that involves 0 skill or timing.

You realize its currently the only way you PVP guys will ever get any of the Trials done. is by having a SNS tank Mitigationg large damage on bosses so you whinners can get loot

It makes PvP simply not fun, and I am certainly not the only one who feels this way. I typically enjoy doing both, hell I played Rift for 2 years because the PvE was fun. I'm looking for discussion and suggestions to improve the situation because I otherwise enjoy the game. If it somehow makes you feel better about yourself that you must come in to say stop whining.. fine continue to do so.

Wifeaggro13

Nooblet wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

Blocking is getting increasingly frustrating. Normal use is fine, but the issue lies with people who simply hold block. This should really not be possible. I'm all for strategically blocking abilities and such but this should be something that is done as a reaction, not simply held down.

Not sure if it has already been suggested or not, but Holding down block should drain your stamina even if you aren't currently blocking something, and increase the drain the longer it is held down. Make this into what I believe it was intended for.. a temporary use to react to spells/strong skills being used against you.

I don't typically call for nerfs on things, and I would hope this could be done in a way that makes normal use of blocking not effected, but eliminates the spam block method that involves 0 skill or timing.

You realize its currently the only way you PVP guys will ever get any of the Trials done. is by having a SNS tank Mitigationg large damage on bosses so you whinners can get loot

It makes PvP simply not fun, and I am certainly not the only one who feels this way. I typically enjoy doing both, hell I played Rift for 2 years because the PvE was fun. I'm looking for discussion and suggestions to improve the situation because I otherwise enjoy the game. If it somehow makes you feel better about yourself that you must come in to say stop whining.. fine continue to do so.

no your not whinning in the least and there are things that need to be adjusted and the Thread is good. i guess what i am trying to say is PVP people in general are attacking the DK and Sorc community .Whining essintialy because 2 builds are completely overpowered. Its not the class but the build> but those same templars and NB's are not complaining when they are getting through the VR dungeons and aquiring purple set pieces due to the same abilities they just flamed about in PVP. But the routinely scream its the whole class. for DK it is the light Armor resto / destro build that generates huge amounts of AOE in PVE generating enough ultimate and magica to heal them selves and keep the banner up. Its not doable with any other build but that one Not in heavy armor with a melee weapon equipped. Its more about light armor and ultimate gain. neither Class can do much solo like those videos show in heavy armor. For PVP its all the utility DK has that is absolutely needed for PVE VR dungeons but wreaks havoc in PVP because there is no diminshing returns on the abilities. Again its only doable in light armor with Destro resto staff. As for the Basho matic its ridiculous that dual wield and 2h cap out at about 500 to 600 ST DPS while shield bash does 800. It's Ridiculous considering there are hard 800 dps checks in the VR dungeons that cannot be done by melee. i dont know that they need to nerf as much as they need to completely buff the crap out of those seriously garbage skill lines. ranged builds should not have these massive advantages in PVP or PVE.
As for suggestions its gonna get worse before it gets better because historicaly in the Balance phase of development which happens shortly after launch. They will nerf nerf nerf the overpowered builds . then slightly increase the the broken lines in increments . the problem will lie right in this area. they will balance for PVP , then when not a good god end game trial can be done. because the Nerfed the Fing daylights out of the classes that could Actually DPS and mitigate Damage . then not only will the people who's classes sat broken like the night blade and all the heavy melee builds. but the end game players will give SEO the giant middle finger when thier trial progression is literally stopped for weeks on end because they are appeasing the vocal mob that had no clue what was broken in the first place. Just that they die every time to a DK and sorc. Partially because they suck and partially because there was a horribly imbalanced build Using Light armor / magica based build.

Sleepydan

Nooblet wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

Are you serious? So you tried to kill a tank that blocked and your solution is to remove this ability from tanks. Rather nerf it.

My god. The devs must read this crap and laugh.

No... every other player is sword/shield and simply holds their block button down..

Have you even been in Cyrodiil? It's definitly a problem. Sure I can run away, which is what sorc is good at... But who plays PvP to run away from fights, or wait around till someone is out of stamina before they can do any significant damage.

I thought everyone is using a bow. Go figure

Creslian7

The entire 1H/S line is out of whack. The fact that a heavy attack from stealth with a 1H/S does more damage than a DW or Bow Attack from stealth is stupid and unbalancing. To say tanks lack dps or damage as 1H/S is a lie. 1H/S does not limit their damage. They still have access to all their magica attacks while holding down block as well as bash which on it's own is one of the best sustained dps abilities and arguably the best burst ability in the game.

You get good damage, good survivability and 360 defense, they should just remove the other weapon lines in favor of 1h/s.

Xsorus

Nooblet wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol...Here is what would happen in any large pvp encounter as a tank with the op suggestion.

They'd charge in, and instantly die...Because Blocking is really the only way to stay up in this game for longer then 3 seconds when being hit by more then 1 person.

Are you talking about charging into 30 players by them self? Then yes.. they should die almost instantly, please explain what you are sacrificing to be a "tank" in pvp. If you want to keep that type of survivability, dmg of tanks needs to be nerfed substantially, and blocking while dealing dps is absolutely ridiculous. Blocking was put in place to re actively block attacks by anticipating incoming hits imo. If ESO comes out and says blocking is working as intended, and they inteded that players simply hold down block until out of stamina while dealing dps.. then I will kindly shut up.

In an ideal world in my opinion.. Tanks should have about 3x the survivability, and do about 3x less dps. That being from a pure tank, to a pure dmg dealer. With some specs being somewhere in the middle.

Then no one would play tanks ever in this game in pvp.

Lets examine the difference between a Tank in this game vs someone who's not tanking, Its pretty much holding block down. The Second you're not holding block down, you're not tanking in this game. Its the only thing that keeps anyone alive during fights in this game.

And blocking while dealing dps is ridiculous? Ummm there have been countless games where you can block and do DPS, I could block and do dps all the time on my Valkyrie in DAOC, on my Warrior in WoW, on my Black Orc and Knight in Warhammer... It wasn't a constant reduction like this game, but I wasn't snared while doing it, I also didn't stop doing it the second I ran out of stamina as well.

Also Blocking was not put in place to re-actively block attachs by anticipating incoming hits. That Mechanic is called Dodge, hell the whole Taunt System itself is designed around you holding down block to absorb the damage of attacks (The taunts not being spammed)

As tanks being 3x the survivability, and do 3x less dps.. You could do that..But you'd pretty much have to remove the whole way blocking is done in this game, and go back to the % to block type system, which would cause Elder Scrolls people to freak.

you'd also end up with walking gods in some classes, See Blackguards in Warhammer once they hit rank 80

Xsorus

Creslian7 wrote: »

The entire 1H/S line is out of whack. The fact that a heavy attack from stealth with a 1H/S does more damage than a DW or Bow Attack from stealth is stupid and unbalancing. To say tanks lack dps or damage as 1H/S is a lie. 1H/S does not limit their damage. They still have access to all their magica attacks while holding down block as well as bash which on it's own is one of the best sustained dps abilities and arguably the best burst ability in the game.

You get good damage, good survivability and 360 defense, they should just remove the other weapon lines in favor of 1h/s.

That's less of a problem with 1h/s and more of a problem with how crappy a vast number of abilities the weapon lines have. I can do really good damage while holding block as a duel wielder, hell I can do it from Range no less with Flying Blade.

But you look at the other abilities, and you have a dot and flurry which isn't super great in PvP.

The one AoE they have worth anything eats a metric ton of Stamina.

Then you get into the fact that it has on charge... making Duel Wield incredibly annoying to use unless you have a Charge on your class.

Two hander is even worse off, Its got the Charge...but its only good damage is its execute when below a certain amount of health.

Bash is basically the whole spammable Stamina attack besides Flying Blade that's actually good.

Nooblet

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol...Here is what would happen in any large pvp encounter as a tank with the op suggestion.

They'd charge in, and instantly die...Because Blocking is really the only way to stay up in this game for longer then 3 seconds when being hit by more then 1 person.

Are you talking about charging into 30 players by them self? Then yes.. they should die almost instantly, please explain what you are sacrificing to be a "tank" in pvp. If you want to keep that type of survivability, dmg of tanks needs to be nerfed substantially, and blocking while dealing dps is absolutely ridiculous. Blocking was put in place to re actively block attacks by anticipating incoming hits imo. If ESO comes out and says blocking is working as intended, and they inteded that players simply hold down block until out of stamina while dealing dps.. then I will kindly shut up.

In an ideal world in my opinion.. Tanks should have about 3x the survivability, and do about 3x less dps. That being from a pure tank, to a pure dmg dealer. With some specs being somewhere in the middle.

Then no one would play tanks ever in this game in pvp.

Lets examine the difference between a Tank in this game vs someone who's not tanking, Its pretty much holding block down. The Second you're not holding block down, you're not tanking in this game. Its the only thing that keeps anyone alive during fights in this game.

And blocking while dealing dps is ridiculous? Ummm there have been countless games where you can block and do DPS, I could block and do dps all the time on my Valkyrie in DAOC, on my Warrior in WoW, on my Black Orc and Knight in Warhammer... It wasn't a constant reduction like this game, but I wasn't snared while doing it, I also didn't stop doing it the second I ran out of stamina as well.

Also Blocking was not put in place to re-actively block attachs by anticipating incoming hits. That Mechanic is called Dodge, hell the whole Taunt System itself is designed around you holding down block to absorb the damage of attacks (The taunts not being spammed)

As tanks being 3x the survivability, and do 3x less dps.. You could do that..But you'd pretty much have to remove the whole way blocking is done in this game, and go back to the % to block type system, which would cause Elder Scrolls people to freak.

you'd also end up with walking gods in some classes, See Blackguards in Warhammer once they hit rank 80

Tanking in DAoC worked because it did not work vs magic attacks, so there was counters for it. They could still be focused by multiple casters and dropped pretty quickly, but not near as easy for melee to take them down. Maybe the problem lies with the complete lack of decent magic spells that aren't projectiles, that would certainly help to alleviate the problem. While shields could block bolts in daoc, they were not the only available option for dps. Whereas sorc casters in ESO are basically forced to spam crystal fragments, because everything else is absolute junk(except a finisher)

Wifeaggro13

Creslian7 wrote: »

The entire 1H/S line is out of whack. The fact that a heavy attack from stealth with a 1H/S does more damage than a DW or Bow Attack from stealth is stupid and unbalancing. To say tanks lack dps or damage as 1H/S is a lie. 1H/S does not limit their damage. They still have access to all their magica attacks while holding down block as well as bash which on it's own is one of the best sustained dps abilities and arguably the best burst ability in the game.

You get good damage, good survivability and 360 defense, they should just remove the other weapon lines in favor of 1h/s.

It is completely Un balanced . i dont know if it is a nerf in order. or simply bringing all the other melee up to speed and surpassing it. our a combo nerf and increase.
But currently Melee is by far the weakest forms of DPS all across the board. High risk low return in both pve and pvp.

ArRashid

Well I'm not much of a PvP fan, but I guess dropping Volcanic Rune under a blocking tank and watch him go BOOM would be satisfying enough... unless block blocks even AoEs and their effects

Xsorus

Nooblet wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol...Here is what would happen in any large pvp encounter as a tank with the op suggestion.

They'd charge in, and instantly die...Because Blocking is really the only way to stay up in this game for longer then 3 seconds when being hit by more then 1 person.

Are you talking about charging into 30 players by them self? Then yes.. they should die almost instantly, please explain what you are sacrificing to be a "tank" in pvp. If you want to keep that type of survivability, dmg of tanks needs to be nerfed substantially, and blocking while dealing dps is absolutely ridiculous. Blocking was put in place to re actively block attacks by anticipating incoming hits imo. If ESO comes out and says blocking is working as intended, and they inteded that players simply hold down block until out of stamina while dealing dps.. then I will kindly shut up.

In an ideal world in my opinion.. Tanks should have about 3x the survivability, and do about 3x less dps. That being from a pure tank, to a pure dmg dealer. With some specs being somewhere in the middle.

Then no one would play tanks ever in this game in pvp.

Lets examine the difference between a Tank in this game vs someone who's not tanking, Its pretty much holding block down. The Second you're not holding block down, you're not tanking in this game. Its the only thing that keeps anyone alive during fights in this game.

And blocking while dealing dps is ridiculous? Ummm there have been countless games where you can block and do DPS, I could block and do dps all the time on my Valkyrie in DAOC, on my Warrior in WoW, on my Black Orc and Knight in Warhammer... It wasn't a constant reduction like this game, but I wasn't snared while doing it, I also didn't stop doing it the second I ran out of stamina as well.

Also Blocking was not put in place to re-actively block attachs by anticipating incoming hits. That Mechanic is called Dodge, hell the whole Taunt System itself is designed around you holding down block to absorb the damage of attacks (The taunts not being spammed)

As tanks being 3x the survivability, and do 3x less dps.. You could do that..But you'd pretty much have to remove the whole way blocking is done in this game, and go back to the % to block type system, which would cause Elder Scrolls people to freak.

you'd also end up with walking gods in some classes, See Blackguards in Warhammer once they hit rank 80

Tanking in DAoC worked because it did not work vs magic attacks, so there was counters for it. They could still be focused by multiple casters and dropped pretty quickly, but not near as easy for melee to take them down. Maybe the problem lies with the complete lack of decent magic spells that aren't projectiles, that would certainly help to alleviate the problem. While shields could block bolts in daoc, they were not the only available option for dps. Whereas sorc casters in ESO are basically forced to spam crystal fragments, because everything else is absolute junk(except a finisher)

Most of the Heavy Tanks could pickup Realm Abilities that made them extremely hard to nuke down. There is a general reason that most heavy tanks in that game were killed last if ya could help it. They could also do some very nasty damage if you remember things like Annihilation, or a Troll Warrior of any weapon type (usually hammer)

But yea, There was plenty of Ways to Tank Magic Attacks in DAOC, it just didn't include blocking.

The whole complain about Crystal fragments has less to do with tanking in this game, and more with the fact that so many abilities in this game just suck.

Nooblet

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol...Here is what would happen in any large pvp encounter as a tank with the op suggestion.

They'd charge in, and instantly die...Because Blocking is really the only way to stay up in this game for longer then 3 seconds when being hit by more then 1 person.

Are you talking about charging into 30 players by them self? Then yes.. they should die almost instantly, please explain what you are sacrificing to be a "tank" in pvp. If you want to keep that type of survivability, dmg of tanks needs to be nerfed substantially, and blocking while dealing dps is absolutely ridiculous. Blocking was put in place to re actively block attacks by anticipating incoming hits imo. If ESO comes out and says blocking is working as intended, and they inteded that players simply hold down block until out of stamina while dealing dps.. then I will kindly shut up.

In an ideal world in my opinion.. Tanks should have about 3x the survivability, and do about 3x less dps. That being from a pure tank, to a pure dmg dealer. With some specs being somewhere in the middle.

Then no one would play tanks ever in this game in pvp.

Lets examine the difference between a Tank in this game vs someone who's not tanking, Its pretty much holding block down. The Second you're not holding block down, you're not tanking in this game. Its the only thing that keeps anyone alive during fights in this game.

And blocking while dealing dps is ridiculous? Ummm there have been countless games where you can block and do DPS, I could block and do dps all the time on my Valkyrie in DAOC, on my Warrior in WoW, on my Black Orc and Knight in Warhammer... It wasn't a constant reduction like this game, but I wasn't snared while doing it, I also didn't stop doing it the second I ran out of stamina as well.

Also Blocking was not put in place to re-actively block attachs by anticipating incoming hits. That Mechanic is called Dodge, hell the whole Taunt System itself is designed around you holding down block to absorb the damage of attacks (The taunts not being spammed)

As tanks being 3x the survivability, and do 3x less dps.. You could do that..But you'd pretty much have to remove the whole way blocking is done in this game, and go back to the % to block type system, which would cause Elder Scrolls people to freak.

you'd also end up with walking gods in some classes, See Blackguards in Warhammer once they hit rank 80

Tanking in DAoC worked because it did not work vs magic attacks, so there was counters for it. They could still be focused by multiple casters and dropped pretty quickly, but not near as easy for melee to take them down. Maybe the problem lies with the complete lack of decent magic spells that aren't projectiles, that would certainly help to alleviate the problem. While shields could block bolts in daoc, they were not the only available option for dps. Whereas sorc casters in ESO are basically forced to spam crystal fragments, because everything else is absolute junk(except a finisher)

Most of the Heavy Tanks could pickup Realm Abilities that made them extremely hard to nuke down. There is a general reason that most heavy tanks in that game were killed last if ya could help it. They could also do some very nasty damage if you remember things like Annihilation, or a Troll Warrior of any weapon type (usually hammer)

But yea, There was plenty of Ways to Tank Magic Attacks in DAOC, it just didn't include blocking.

The whole complain about Crystal fragments has less to do with tanking in this game, and more with the fact that so many abilities in this game just suck.

What DAoC did you play? 3 Casters would still drop a Heavy tank in about 3-4 seconds if they focused him with a debuff+nuke, might add a tad longer if he used Fury ( a temporary buff with a 5 min(if I recall correctly) cooldown. They did not ignore them unless it was a tank group fighting them. Caster groups would extend, and pick off overextenders as the opportunity presented itself though CC etc. Most groups did not even run heavy tanks because they did not have charge to help them catch the extending casters.

A warrior popping Testudo was ignored. They took 90% reduced dmg, could not deal damage until the buff was up. Sadly, that is somewhat comparable to what a DK tank can do, as long as they manage their stamina for.

But I do agree, way too many abilities suck, making some seem like the only option. I would gladly drop crystal fragments if there was other options for a sorc, but the others are laughably bad.

Xsorus

Nooblet wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

lol...Here is what would happen in any large pvp encounter as a tank with the op suggestion.

They'd charge in, and instantly die...Because Blocking is really the only way to stay up in this game for longer then 3 seconds when being hit by more then 1 person.

Are you talking about charging into 30 players by them self? Then yes.. they should die almost instantly, please explain what you are sacrificing to be a "tank" in pvp. If you want to keep that type of survivability, dmg of tanks needs to be nerfed substantially, and blocking while dealing dps is absolutely ridiculous. Blocking was put in place to re actively block attacks by anticipating incoming hits imo. If ESO comes out and says blocking is working as intended, and they inteded that players simply hold down block until out of stamina while dealing dps.. then I will kindly shut up.

In an ideal world in my opinion.. Tanks should have about 3x the survivability, and do about 3x less dps. That being from a pure tank, to a pure dmg dealer. With some specs being somewhere in the middle.

Then no one would play tanks ever in this game in pvp.

Lets examine the difference between a Tank in this game vs someone who's not tanking, Its pretty much holding block down. The Second you're not holding block down, you're not tanking in this game. Its the only thing that keeps anyone alive during fights in this game.

And blocking while dealing dps is ridiculous? Ummm there have been countless games where you can block and do DPS, I could block and do dps all the time on my Valkyrie in DAOC, on my Warrior in WoW, on my Black Orc and Knight in Warhammer... It wasn't a constant reduction like this game, but I wasn't snared while doing it, I also didn't stop doing it the second I ran out of stamina as well.

Also Blocking was not put in place to re-actively block attachs by anticipating incoming hits. That Mechanic is called Dodge, hell the whole Taunt System itself is designed around you holding down block to absorb the damage of attacks (The taunts not being spammed)

As tanks being 3x the survivability, and do 3x less dps.. You could do that..But you'd pretty much have to remove the whole way blocking is done in this game, and go back to the % to block type system, which would cause Elder Scrolls people to freak.

you'd also end up with walking gods in some classes, See Blackguards in Warhammer once they hit rank 80

Tanking in DAoC worked because it did not work vs magic attacks, so there was counters for it. They could still be focused by multiple casters and dropped pretty quickly, but not near as easy for melee to take them down. Maybe the problem lies with the complete lack of decent magic spells that aren't projectiles, that would certainly help to alleviate the problem. While shields could block bolts in daoc, they were not the only available option for dps. Whereas sorc casters in ESO are basically forced to spam crystal fragments, because everything else is absolute junk(except a finisher)

Most of the Heavy Tanks could pickup Realm Abilities that made them extremely hard to nuke down. There is a general reason that most heavy tanks in that game were killed last if ya could help it. They could also do some very nasty damage if you remember things like Annihilation, or a Troll Warrior of any weapon type (usually hammer)

But yea, There was plenty of Ways to Tank Magic Attacks in DAOC, it just didn't include blocking.

The whole complain about Crystal fragments has less to do with tanking in this game, and more with the fact that so many abilities in this game just suck.

What DAoC did you play? 3 Casters would still drop a Heavy tank in about 3-4 seconds if they focused him with a debuff+nuke, might add a tad longer if he used Fury ( a temporary buff with a 5 min(if I recall correctly) cooldown. They did not ignore them unless it was a tank group fighting them. Caster groups would extend, and pick off overextenders as the opportunity presented itself though CC etc. Most groups did not even run heavy tanks because they did not have charge to help them catch the extending casters.

A warrior popping Testudo was ignored. They took 90% reduced dmg, could not deal damage until the buff was up. Sadly, that is somewhat comparable to what a DK tank can do, as long as they manage their stamina for.

But I do agree, way too many abilities suck, making some seem like the only option. I would gladly drop crystal fragments if there was other options for a sorc, but the others are laughably bad.

You're looking at tanking different then me, 3 Casters Debuff Nuking a Heavy Tank should of eaten a Heavy Tank fairly quickly (and probably would result in the Heavy tank popping something like Testudo or his other RA's) But that's 3 casters... In a game where spitting at them interrupted them fairly easy. They're also suppose to overextend because any Hybrid Group would be pushing on them as well... It was a dance between them. As for Running heavy tanks, it depends on the group.

Hib Caster groups tended to run Heroes fairly often, Midgard groups usually relied on Savages/Zerkers for their Melee, and Occasionally Warriors were used because they were amazing for Peeling. Valkyries were the other "tank" type class used fairly often.

Alb groups didn't tend to run Armsman, or really even paladins because Alb Caster Groups were always preferred.

There were a few cases where our group ran a troll dps warrior... as in this guy was basically just running around shield slamming and two handing people down. He wasn't an easy kill by any means.

Most of the time our group ran me on Valkyrie (when I'd stopped playing the savage) a Zerker/2 healers/1 Shaman/1 Skald/1 Runemaster/1 Spiritmaster

i basically took the job of the Warrior at that point, Peeling and interrupting anything I saw.

Also I seem to recall Heavy Tanks flat out getting a passive along with Fury

I was right

Memories of War: Upon reaching level 41, the Hero, Warrior and Armsman will begin to gain more magic resistance (spell damage reduction only) as they progress towards level 50. At each level beyond 41 they gain 2%-3% extra resistance per level. At level 50, they will have the full 15% benefit.

Basically some extra resist they could stack with AoM if they decided (It wasn't like the primary resist you found on Gear and Shaman/Druid/Friar Buffs)

Nooblet

Fully aware of their abilities as I had both rank 9 warrior and spiritmaster, as well as rank 8 wl, and rm.


Casters were > heavy tanks. (Unless you are talking about back before toa) they still had their uses, and could take more hits than other classes, but their biggest weakness was mobility, a weakness tanks in eso don't suffer.