Vampire Drain Essence vs Bosses

Kyosji

Ok, I'm still less than a week old in the Vampire skill line, but one thing I've noticed is that Drain Essence does not seem to work on any type of boss, dungeon or world ar anyone with 2+ elite symbol. Is there a reason for this?

Mephos

boss are immun to CC (most of the time). they probably couldn´t programm it so that it just does dmg and heals you without the CC ^^

Kyosji

That's kind of dumb. They made me weaker vs them, so they gave me an essence drain to make up for it. Without it, I've become nearly useless against them in dungeons. Got my ass handed to me vs a level 34 dungeon boss yesterday because it was a bit of a tight area with a fire using boss. I was doing fine, until I realized I couldn't use this skill and fell like nothing. I'm a VR2 vs a level 34 boss. It shouldn't have ended so badly.

Soloeus

I feel that vamps were hit kinda hard with the nerf stick, so much that vamp isn't even fun anymore. They could have fixed the bats simply by hardcapping the maximum ultimate that could be received from the drain.

Instead, they made everything Vamp related cost more; and didn't even fix the problem with passive skills breaking. This problem in addition to vamp skills has been confirmed a problem with Provisioning/Alchemy passive increases (last longer), and some other skills (Armor Skills, some Racials).

nerevarine1138

Kyosji wrote: »

That's kind of dumb. They made me weaker vs them, so they gave me an essence drain to make up for it. Without it, I've become nearly useless against them in dungeons. Got my ass handed to me vs a level 34 dungeon boss yesterday because it was a bit of a tight area with a fire using boss. I was doing fine, until I realized I couldn't use this skill and fell like nothing. I'm a VR2 vs a level 34 boss. It shouldn't have ended so badly.

Well, for starters, dungeon bosses are tuned to groups, so you should be having trouble let with them.

And while a complete immunity to Essence Drain kind of sucks, remember that you'd only be able to use it once in a fight. General rule of thumb is to switch it out for another self-heal before going into a boss fight. Bosses aren't meant to be stun-locked, so I don't think this is changing any time soon.

Xithian

I believe the issue in question is that for most stun-immune mobs it simply lets you channel the drain without applying a stun. For bosses though it just says "NOPE" and doesn't even let you cast.

It may be once a fight, but the stamina healing alone makes it a very important part of your strategy. Suddenly finding it not working completely derails the fight for you.

The inconsistency is the real complaint. There's really no reason for it. Either the skill shouldn't work at all on stun immune mobs, or it should work but not stun. Whichever side they stick with, they need to apply it to all cases.

nerevarine1138

Xithian wrote: »

I believe the issue in question is that for most stun-immune mobs it simply lets you channel the drain without applying a stun. For bosses though it just says "NOPE" and doesn't even let you cast.

It may be once a fight, but the stamina healing alone makes it a very important part of your strategy. Suddenly finding it not working completely derails the fight for you.

The inconsistency is the real complaint. There's really no reason for it. Either the skill shouldn't work at all on stun immune mobs, or it should work but not stun. Whichever side they stick with, they need to apply it to all cases.

I have not encountered a mob that is stun-immune but can also be drained. Which mobs have you seen with that behavior?

Xithian

Mephos wrote: »

boss are immun to CC (most of the time). they probably couldn´t programm it so that it just does dmg and heals you without the CC ^^

Except that's exactly how it's programmed VS CC immunity. Someone just took a shortcut vs bosses and blanket blocked the skill from firing.

Artemiisia

Im having abit of a hard time as vamp now, especially when doing long dungeons, where I cant feed, going through the stages, and my health regain becomes lossier for every minute.

Still im happy with me being a vamp still, it has made me become more aware of my skill-sets and my survivability has gone through the roof.

Two things about drain essence

1. I use it for the health, but more as a stun ability, while my ulitmative gets faster gain, this I do up until I reach a boss.
2. then when Im fighting against a boss, I switch drain essence out with another skill, I can make myself stronger with during that fight, maybe bound agis for more armor

Xithian

When I'm solo I keep drain on and pull a dinky lil add to use it on. Yesterday I while doing my last solo dungeon in Cyrodiil (yay) I ended up pulling a boss ogre, 3 normal ogres, and some bears. I am a nightblade, and my only AoE is my ultimate. I stuck to the boss till he went down, cycling through the adds for draining. Once the boss was down I just went through the adds one at a time. My finisher gives me 15% health back, so it works nicely.

The first time I found Essence Drain not working was when I decided to solo a VR2^^^ boss in a public dungeon. There was a moment of pure panic. I managed to take him down, which I was very happy with, but it was not an easy fight by any means.

nerevarine1138

Xithian wrote: »

When I'm solo I keep drain on and pull a dinky lil add to use it on. Yesterday I while doing my last solo dungeon in Cyrodiil (yay) I ended up pulling a boss ogre, 3 normal ogres, and some bears. I am a nightblade, and my only AoE is my ultimate. I stuck to the boss till he went down, cycling through the adds for draining. Once the boss was down I just went through the adds one at a time. My finisher gives me 15% health back, so it works nicely.

The first time I found Essence Drain not working was when I decided to solo a VR2^^^ boss in a public dungeon. There was a moment of pure panic. I managed to take him down, which I was very happy with, but it was not an easy fight by any means.

Wait, I'm still confused by your earlier post. Have you seen a mob that's CC-immune but can still be drained? I've never run into one.

Xithian

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Xithian wrote: »

When I'm solo I keep drain on and pull a dinky lil add to use it on. Yesterday I while doing my last solo dungeon in Cyrodiil (yay) I ended up pulling a boss ogre, 3 normal ogres, and some bears. I am a nightblade, and my only AoE is my ultimate. I stuck to the boss till he went down, cycling through the adds for draining. Once the boss was down I just went through the adds one at a time. My finisher gives me 15% health back, so it works nicely.

The first time I found Essence Drain not working was when I decided to solo a VR2^^^ boss in a public dungeon. There was a moment of pure panic. I managed to take him down, which I was very happy with, but it was not an easy fight by any means.

Wait, I'm still confused by your earlier post. Have you seen a mob that's CC-immune but can still be drained? I've never run into one.

They recently put in a 10 second CC immunity after stuns. As a nightblade, I open with a stealth attack that stuns. When the fight goes on longer than that stun last then your target will have a period of CC immunity. Honstly PvP is my only "for sure" example of this. I've been in Cyrodiil for days now so I can't remember other specific examples.

Kyosji

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Kyosji wrote: »

That's kind of dumb. They made me weaker vs them, so they gave me an essence drain to make up for it. Without it, I've become nearly useless against them in dungeons. Got my ass handed to me vs a level 34 dungeon boss yesterday because it was a bit of a tight area with a fire using boss. I was doing fine, until I realized I couldn't use this skill and fell like nothing. I'm a VR2 vs a level 34 boss. It shouldn't have ended so badly.

Well, for starters, dungeon bosses are tuned to groups, so you should be having trouble let with them.

And while a complete immunity to Essence Drain kind of sucks, remember that you'd only be able to use it once in a fight. General rule of thumb is to switch it out for another self-heal before going into a boss fight. Bosses aren't meant to be stun-locked, so I don't think this is changing any time soon.

I was helping a group of level 35 players out, so I wasn't alone. The issue is that WITH the help, I was still put down because I couldn't deal with the fire and no healing.

nerevarine1138

Kyosji wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Kyosji wrote: »

That's kind of dumb. They made me weaker vs them, so they gave me an essence drain to make up for it. Without it, I've become nearly useless against them in dungeons. Got my ass handed to me vs a level 34 dungeon boss yesterday because it was a bit of a tight area with a fire using boss. I was doing fine, until I realized I couldn't use this skill and fell like nothing. I'm a VR2 vs a level 34 boss. It shouldn't have ended so badly.

Well, for starters, dungeon bosses are tuned to groups, so you should be having trouble let with them.

And while a complete immunity to Essence Drain kind of sucks, remember that you'd only be able to use it once in a fight. General rule of thumb is to switch it out for another self-heal before going into a boss fight. Bosses aren't meant to be stun-locked, so I don't think this is changing any time soon.

I was helping a group of level 35 players out, so I wasn't alone. The issue is that WITH the help, I was still put down because I couldn't deal with the fire and no healing.

Also, I've used it multiple times against single enemies many times. I'm not sure where you got the "use it once in a fight" from.

Well, I can't help you with a lack of healing in a boss fight; that sounds like a group issue.

But I assure you that you have not used your drain multiple times on one enemy. It's even in the skill description. Once an enemy has been drained or fed upon, you can't drain them again. That effect even persists through your death.

Artemiisia

u can only use it once in a fight against one mob, but cycle it through all the mobs in the fight and u stay alive

nerevarine1138

Xithian wrote: »

They recently put in a 10 second CC immunity after stuns. As a nightblade, I open with a stealth attack that stuns. When the fight goes on longer than that stun last then your target will have a period of CC immunity. Honstly PvP is my only "for sure" example of this. I've been in Cyrodiil for days now so I can't remember other specific examples.

Ah. Was that 10-second immunity only added for players? I think that may be the case, because I haven't had any issue stun-locking my regular PvE mobs, but if a mob is "too powerful" for the stun effect, I can't use my drain ability.

Kyosji

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Kyosji wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Kyosji wrote: »

That's kind of dumb. They made me weaker vs them, so they gave me an essence drain to make up for it. Without it, I've become nearly useless against them in dungeons. Got my ass handed to me vs a level 34 dungeon boss yesterday because it was a bit of a tight area with a fire using boss. I was doing fine, until I realized I couldn't use this skill and fell like nothing. I'm a VR2 vs a level 34 boss. It shouldn't have ended so badly.

Well, for starters, dungeon bosses are tuned to groups, so you should be having trouble let with them.

And while a complete immunity to Essence Drain kind of sucks, remember that you'd only be able to use it once in a fight. General rule of thumb is to switch it out for another self-heal before going into a boss fight. Bosses aren't meant to be stun-locked, so I don't think this is changing any time soon.

I was helping a group of level 35 players out, so I wasn't alone. The issue is that WITH the help, I was still put down because I couldn't deal with the fire and no healing.

Also, I've used it multiple times against single enemies many times. I'm not sure where you got the "use it once in a fight" from.

Well, I can't help you with a lack of healing in a boss fight; that sounds like a group issue.

But I assure you that you have not used your drain multiple times on one enemy. It's even in the skill description. Once an enemy has been drained or fed upon, you can't drain them again. That effect even persists through your death.

removed it thinking I've only really done this fighting large groups

Xithian

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Xithian wrote: »

They recently put in a 10 second CC immunity after stuns. As a nightblade, I open with a stealth attack that stuns. When the fight goes on longer than that stun last then your target will have a period of CC immunity. Honstly PvP is my only "for sure" example of this. I've been in Cyrodiil for days now so I can't remember other specific examples.

Ah. Was that 10-second immunity only added for players? I think that may be the case, because I haven't had any issue stun-locking my regular PvE mobs, but if a mob is "too powerful" for the stun effect, I can't use my drain ability.

Honestly I'm not sure. I may just be thinking PvP due to overexposure. I recently hit Vamp 9 (stealth speeeeeeed) so the past few days has been a blur of getting every Skyshard in Cyrodiil. With a fair bit of ganking mixed in.

nerevarine1138

Kyosji wrote: »

removed it thinking I've only really done this fighting large groups

That sounds right. I actually find that I'm extremely helpful in vet dungeons when I don't focus on AoE for most regular mobs. Instead, I just stun-lock everything in sight after bringing down the healer. So I'll basically just drain one enemy after another while my group hits them with sticks.

Gmcartwright21b14_ESO

Bump... I was making my NB tank.. lvl 26 now and Drain essence doesnt work even on Quest mobs.. i was like WTH.. almost died cause of it.. i understand if stun wont work.. but let me drain at least.. only way NB can tank really..

Jade

NB can already have 3 drains without being a vamp so I don't know what you are on about there.

killedbyping

Why do people even use that nonsense ability ?
First of all, you have that ability naturaly if you just sneak behind or use any kind of invise and come to the back of the target (like Shadowy Disguise of NB) and then press X. No need to waste precious skill slot for that.
Did you know that Drain essence and Feeding is the same damn thing ? All what drain essence give to you is the ability to cast it in the face and without stealth.
Healing is not that big and totaly worthless if you fight more then 1 enemy because you will be killed while you channell.
Stamina heal is just an insult. You regen more naturaly for the same ammount of time.

Also, this ability can actualy be used more then once. Just the debuff you put on your enemy have pretty long duration.

Shiaxi

killedbyping wrote: »

Why do people even use that nonsense ability ?
First of all, you have that ability naturaly if you just sneak behind or use any kind of invise and come to the back of the target (like Shadowy Disguise of NB) and then press X. No need to waste precious skill slot for that.
Did you know that Drain essence and Feeding is the same damn thing ? All what drain essence give to you is the ability to cast it in the face and without stealth.
Healing is not that big and totaly worthless if you fight more then 1 enemy because you will be killed while you channell.
Stamina heal is just an insult. You regen more naturaly for the same ammount of time.

Also, this ability can actualy be used more then once. Just the debuff you put on your enemy have pretty long duration.

I don't think you actually played a vamp have you? if you have you haven't really played around with the abilities...

the feeding with x only works on humanoids and only on humanoids unaware of you. drain essence works on practically everything.... did you know that dremora are not counted as humanoid?

the healing is far from negligable; the stamina regen is good to and you can morph the ability to drain ultimate aswel.

in multi mob fights it is still very useful; 3 enemies = 3 drain targets; draining removes 1 damage dealer from the fight due to stunning him while doing pretty substantial damage. fight with pyros? target and drain the pyro first and finish him of eliminating the fire damage...

Pele

Xithian wrote: »

I believe the issue in question is that for most stun-immune mobs it simply lets you channel the drain without applying a stun. For bosses though it just says "NOPE" and doesn't even let you cast.

It may be once a fight, but the stamina healing alone makes it a very important part of your strategy. Suddenly finding it not working completely derails the fight for you.

The inconsistency is the real complaint. There's really no reason for it. Either the skill shouldn't work at all on stun immune mobs, or it should work but not stun. Whichever side they stick with, they need to apply it to all cases.

Agree. I'd settle for the drain and no stun.

Gwarok

I gave up vamp the day it got slapped upside the head with the nerf bat. 250g IIRC. I have found that I am a much happier gamer now. Vamp was "fun" while it lasted I even got to bite one person for free and but I am glad I got rid of it never to be acquired again, and don't even care if they boost it back up or not. It's a handicapping disease, IMO, and working as intended now.

Shiaxi

I'm thinking I'm going to get myself cured aswel.

I mean vampires are supposed to be terrifyingly powerful monsters. Now I understand that in a MMO you can't make 1 player more powerful then another without vampirism, but as it stands vampires are just gimped when compared to other players.

zaria

Xithian wrote: »

Mephos wrote: »

boss are immun to CC (most of the time). they probably couldn´t programm it so that it just does dmg and heals you without the CC ^^

Except that's exactly how it's programmed VS CC immunity. Someone just took a shortcut vs bosses and blanket blocked the skill from firing.

Sorcerer abilities who do damage and cc at once still do damage like crystal shards, some two dots bosses can be kicked down by crystal shards too think its more about the boss physical size.

Reiterpallasch

Mephos wrote: »

they probably couldn´t programm it so that it just does dmg and heals you without the CC ^^

There's no "can't" when it comes to programing, just "won't". They could make it give you infinite gold, change your name, and transfer you to another data center when using it if they really wanted to, as it would be far from impossible to do so. Making it do damage without the CC should be incredibly easy to do.

If I had to guess, I'd say it was probably just an oversight and they missed it.

Kyosji

killedbyping wrote: »

Why do people even use that nonsense ability ?
First of all, you have that ability naturaly if you just sneak behind or use any kind of invise and come to the back of the target (like Shadowy Disguise of NB) and then press X. No need to waste precious skill slot for that.
Did you know that Drain essence and Feeding is the same damn thing ? All what drain essence give to you is the ability to cast it in the face and without stealth.
Healing is not that big and totaly worthless if you fight more then 1 enemy because you will be killed while you channell.
Stamina heal is just an insult. You regen more naturaly for the same ammount of time.

Also, this ability can actualy be used more then once. Just the debuff you put on your enemy have pretty long duration.

What the hell are you talking about? For one thing, don't assume that all vamps are nightblades. I'm actually a sorc using it. Another, Drain essence and Feed are not the same thing. If they were, I would never have to worry about stages of vampirism ever. Also, the healing is a HUGE help while fighting, as the regen on it is insane. I can have 4 mobs attacking me, and I can be at 5% health, but as long as I get a drained essence in there, I can be at full health in a second or so, even with everyone hitting me. As for Stamina, again, I'm a sorc, I could care less about it as I don't use stamina except for adding a small amount of extra damage to my light/heavy staff attacks, and once I get to a point I feel comfortable respecing, all my stamina I already have is going to my health pool instead.

I really wish people wouldn't open their mouths if they haven't played the class you are asking about.