How do YOU feel about Bolt Escape?

Brizz

Brizz

Somewhat too strong. While the skill is good, it seems a bit too strong in a pvp environment.

I love that the classes are unique, but you shouldn't be able to outrun a horse with any skill.

Nox_Aeterna

Somewhat too strong. While the skill is good, it seems a bit too strong in a pvp environment.

For the first option , they must actually give said skills to the other classes.

Only class that can run after a Sorc is a NB.

DKs and Templars can pretty much only watch.

So yeah , they need to look into this in PvP , but then again , this is one of the MANY things that are out of balance in this game , and honestly , my patience for them to make things fair is ending kind of faster than they seem to fix anything.

Slantasiam

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

maybe they should give sorc more power and dps... if they have to escape all the time. maybe they need more power. common people stop the whining a dk takes no damage for 15 seconds ,,,no damage? no complaints about that....a nb can stealth stun you and pretty much one shot you..no complaints? but you wish to complain about a char that just wants to live. show me a book or a movie or anything that does not make the sorc the most powerful person in the world...they are powerful ...not average peasants that only dk and nb would like them to be... want me to stop escaping? give me enough power to stand up to them....

NordJitsu

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

Before voting, plz watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

guterreeb17_ESO

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

Runing away is overpowered
You should Just stand there as I kill you
In fact you shouldn't even be able to use any skills vs me
You know you might kill me with Bolt ESCAPE I mean I can get a Heart attack from all this running after you.

Travail

Somewhat too strong. While the skill is good, it seems a bit too strong in a pvp environment.

NordJitsu wrote: »

Before voting, plz watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

Those "counters" work in a vacuum, not in real combat. Some of them don't work at all. He also misrepresents the strength of Bolt Escape, namely that a player can use potions to Bolt Escape longer than the video suggests, and also that the other morph of Bolt Escape offers immunity to projectiles, which negates some of his "counters".

Because one morph of Bolt Escape absorbs projectiles, the Templar's Javelin doesn't do a thing. That wasn't mentioned in the video, because he had no interest in giving us an accurate portrayal of the power of the ability. The video is nothing but a propaganda piece.

All of those supposed "counters" either don't work at all, or only work under ideal conditions. For example, Sorcerer's can Bolt Escape while rooted, so their whole point about using Talons as a counter is flat-out wrong.

Finally, this assertion that "letting the Sorc go" is a viable counter doesn't help his credibility. Platitudes like, "Someone who runs away isn't killing you," doesn't further this discussion, and simply displays your ignorance of PVP tactics.

Come back to me and tell me it was harmless to let the Sorc go after he drops a forward camp, letting all of his friends (and everyone else in his alliance) rez right next to where they died. Because there's no way that could have an impact the larger battle, right?

-Travail.

acutulus

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

The poll does not ask a balanced question. You missed the option to vote that this skill is underpowered.

Dubah

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

I don't play a sorc, and i guess in PvP inf you want to be known for running like a girl thats a good sign, I play a Templar healer in pvp with my secondary bar some minor dps/cc abilities and i will say I HATE bolt escape but not because its OP or anything like that, but because people use it to run away. But that's just make fun of material for me, you want to run like a girl instead of fighting be my guest, that just shows i already overpowered you and can do it on a daily basis. If you can't beat a sorc that is using bolt escape then rethink what you are doing because apparently you aren't fighting with good tactics

Niffo

Completely Overpowered. Sorcerers abuse this skill both defensively and offensively and is too strong compared to other classes.

NordJitsu wrote: »

Before voting, plz watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

Counters don't work if they can be stopped by basic defensive abilities everyone gets or by the skill itself. Letting someone get away only to have them come back and kill you minutes later is not a counter. If there were counters to the ability the it would be balanced, but since all of the "counters" you've shown don't actually stop Bolt Escape or are themselves countered by it. All your video ends up doing is displaying how big of a boost Bolt Escape by itself, and how everyone else has to redesign their entire build for mediocre survivability in comparison to Bolt Escape.

kasain

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

It maybe overpowered now but don't mind. And it is not the main fact as I am a sor. As I leveled bolt escape but not morphed it yet. Instead of nerfing every ability to the ground even if it is over powered now, lets wait six months.

They already said they are adding new skill trees and abilities. If we keep nerfing everything where do we stop. Small nerfs in time can be ok, but the game is to fresh and so much yet to come, its really a shame to nerf anything until we see what we have in the next six to twelve months on new skills.

Vampire was an exception as it could take 30x players at once. That as an extreme case

Therium104

Somewhat too strong. While the skill is good, it seems a bit too strong in a pvp environment.

Polls do not work btw. All the sorcs will vote it is not overpowered. Everyone else and a few odd balls will vote to nerf it.

Lynnessa

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

I'd rather not have everything changed around so soon... I agree with @kasain

Nox_Aeterna

Somewhat too strong. While the skill is good, it seems a bit too strong in a pvp environment.

Therium104 wrote: »

Polls do not work btw. All the sorcs will vote it is not overpowered. Everyone else and a few odd balls will vote to nerf it.

Actually , it is good to see that most are already going sorc/DK.

When 80% of the player are either DK or sorc the devs will probably look into these classes.

Ofc , by there will be very few who will even care.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

Dubah wrote: »

I don't play a sorc, and i guess in PvP inf you want to be known for running like a girl thats a good sign, I play a Templar healer in pvp with my secondary bar some minor dps/cc abilities and i will say I HATE bolt escape but not because its OP or anything like that, but because people use it to run away. But that's just make fun of material for me, you want to run like a girl instead of fighting be my guest, that just shows i already overpowered you and can do it on a daily basis. If you can't beat a sorc that is using bolt escape then rethink what you are doing because apparently you aren't fighting with good tactics

My witch is a girl. She may run as she is not tough, but she is extremely powerful, well for her level, and she is just going to be back, all up in your grill, when you are not as ready as you were the first time ... and she is.

My DK will happily stay right in your face till you go down, but he is a different fishy stick entirely.

dcbdown

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

As i stated in another of the million ur class is op cause u can run away threads....

Rogues have had the luxury of sneaking up on ppl and the ability to get out of fights (without spending much in the way of resources) since the beginning of mmo's, suddenly a caster can do it while using all their magika to do so and ppl are causeing an uproar. Unfortunately it seems ppl are so used to anything caster related being a glass cannon/victim to melee that the idea of having an escape mechanism offends them. Not every class or every build is IWIN vs "X" class. Its much closer to (class x class)(build x build)/skills slotted=win.

BrassRazoo

I am not going to bother to vote.
I am a PvE player and I think it is fine.
Please take into consideration when all these "nerf" this and "OP" that are mentioned, that many players are not interested in, and do not play, PvP.
The changes and complaints that are made often effect them as well.

KoooZ

BrassRazoo wrote: »

I am not going to bother to vote.
I am a PvE player and I think it is fine.
Please take into consideration when all these "nerf" this and "OP" that are mentioned, that many players are not interested in, and do not play, PvP.
The changes and complaints that are made often effect them as well.

"Will somebody PLEASE think of the PvE".

NordJitsu

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

Travail wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Before voting, plz watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfzJ1lNlU4

Those "counters" work in a vacuum, not in real combat. Some of them don't work at all. He also misrepresents the strength of Bolt Escape, namely that a player can use potions to Bolt Escape longer than the video suggests, and also that the other morph of Bolt Escape offers immunity to projectiles, which negates some of his "counters".

Because one morph of Bolt Escape absorbs projectiles, the Templar's Javelin doesn't do a thing. That wasn't mentioned in the video, because he had no interest in giving us an accurate portrayal of the power of the ability. The video is nothing but a propaganda piece.

All of those supposed "counters" either don't work at all, or only work under ideal conditions. For example, Sorcerer's can Bolt Escape while rooted, so their whole point about using Talons as a counter is flat-out wrong.

Finally, this assertion that "letting the Sorc go" is a viable counter doesn't help his credibility. Platitudes like, "Someone who runs away isn't killing you," doesn't further this discussion, and simply displays your ignorance of PVP tactics.

Come back to me and tell me it was harmless to let the Sorc go after he drops a forward camp, letting all of his friends (and everyone else in his alliance) rez right next to where they died. Because there's no way that could have an impact the larger battle, right?

-Travail.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Give these a shot yourself before you comment, since I'm fairly certain you don't actually know how effective they are and haven't practiced them enough to utilize them well.

Path of Darkness does not count as redesigning your whole build. Its one skill, just like Bolt Escape.

Mobility counters mobility, that's how it works. If you're a big lumbering tank, you're not going to catch a mobile build most of the time. Just like they aren't supposed to out sustain you. This is called build/class diversity and its good for the game.

That said, if you use 1hand and Shield, you only need to get close enough for a single counter. Use Invasion or Fiery Reach or any other gap closer. Then spam Shield Bash. The shield bash spam will act as an interrupt and prevent him from Bolting away.

Interestingly enough, there is a "nerf Bolt Escape video" out there (which also whines about lots of general MMO things, classifies people who disagree with the video maker as immoral/bad "others", and tells the developers that the only way they can do their job right is to listen to him.) If you watch that video, he actually demonstrates this shield bash Counter. Then realizes he showed a Counter to BE in his nerf vid and basically says, "ignore what I just did though."

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

im a sorc and i dont even have bolt escape, and im vr8. ive used it before a respec, but always foudn it not worth the slot in my skill bar.

Hornex

Somewhat too strong. While the skill is good, it seems a bit too strong in a pvp environment.

My experience of this ability as a Dragon Knight is that sorcerers can just constantly keep moving. I saw a group of players get slaughtered by AOE induced by a sorc who just kept bolt escaping. A skilled sorc with this ability has a massive advantage.

P.S the lagg makes it worse since its hard to time abilities that can trap them.

NordJitsu

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

im a sorc and i dont even have bolt escape, and im vr8. ive used it before a respec, but always foudn it not worth the slot in my skill bar.

Ya there's quite a few people I've heard say similar things. Like someone said above, this thread doesn't include an option for buffing Bolt Escape so its quite biased. I think upping the damage of Streak would be a good start and maybe having the magicka regen debuff only affect Ball of Lightning. Both would encourage people to use the skill to fight more so than run away (because running away is apparently what people find so frustrating, lolololol.)

NordJitsu

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

Also, voting so far proves that the only people crying about this skill are inexperienced players who haven't taken the time to learn or test counter mechanics.

People who know how to play don't see the issue.

Travail

Somewhat too strong. While the skill is good, it seems a bit too strong in a pvp environment.

NordJitsu wrote: »

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Give these a shot yourself before you comment, since I'm fairly certain you don't actually know how effective they are and haven't practiced them enough to utilize them well.

Path of Darkness does not count as redesigning your whole build. Its one skill, just like Bolt Escape.

Mobility counters mobility, that's how it works. If you're a big lumbering tank, you're not going to catch a mobile build most of the time. Just like they aren't supposed to out sustain you. This is called build/class diversity and its good for the game.

That said, if you use 1hand and Shield, you only need to get close enough for a single counter. Use Invasion or Fiery Reach or any other gap closer. Then spam Shield Bash. The shield bash spam will act as an interrupt and prevent him from Bolting away.

Interestingly enough, there is a "nerf Bolt Escape video" out there (which also whines about lots of general MMO things, classifies people who disagree with the video maker as immoral/bad "others", and tells the developers that the only way they can do their job right is to listen to him.) If you watch that video, he actually demonstrates this shield bash Counter. Then realizes he showed a Counter to BE in his nerf vid and basically says, "ignore what I just did though."

I'm VR4 and usually run with at least 1 of every class while in Cyrodiil (we usually enter as a guild, so there are 7-10 of us at all times together.) The reason I know these counters don't work is specifically because our group has tried them in real combat situations.

The only counter that consistently works against Bolt Escape is to have a Sorc in your own group who Bolt Escapes after him. That's it. The other counters require such split-second timing that, while they might work occasionally, they aren't reliable counters. Most of them are also fairly impossible when fighting in group v. group situations. Unless you're telling me you can, on split-second notice, single out the Sorc in the opposing group and Shield Charge them at the exact moment they activate Bolt Escape. I'd like to see a video of you consistently doing that, but something tells me you don't have one.

Speaking of PvP groups, we also know there are very few counters to Bolt Escape because the Sorcerers in our own group use that skill, and get away with it 99% of the time. They successfully escape so often that they are laughing at the absurdity of it. And any experienced PvPer who adds something like Immovable to the mix is only going to make it even harder to counter.

Any reasonable person can see there are issues with PvP right now. Bolt Escape spam, Talons spam, Shield Bash damage, the ability of some classes to create enough ultimate to layer one ult on top of another, are just some of them. (I'd like to comment on Nightblades as well, but I'm not prepared to comment on their escape tools until the other class mechanics get fixed.)

- Add a small cooldown to Bolt Escape (3-4 seconds.)
- Allow us to gain immunity to roots somehow (either count them as hard CC, or give us unique tools to gain immunity to them.)
- Change bash so it still costs resources even when you "miss".
- Make it so you can't gain any ultimate resource while one of your ultimate abilities is currently in use.

Those all seem like reasonable fixes to many of the PvP balance issues in the game, which would not affect PvE in any significant way. You'd have to settle for using ultimate less often, but I'm sure that's what the devs intended anyway (looking at any other game with comparable "ultimate" skills, they aren't meant to be spammed. Ultimates are always meant to be used infrequently.)

All of those abilities would still be good, and still would be worth using. Specifically concerning this discussion, Bolt Escape would still be a great skill. Plenty of other games offer teleports with cooldowns, and those abilities are still ridiculously popular.

-Travail.

cbbouletb16_ESO

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

It defines the Sorcerer and is the only thing making them close to balanced.

whykillme

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

I'm a DK and i can 1v5 everyone but SORC runs away Q.Q HELP ME PLEASE.

Seriously, sorcs are weak in PVP specially with the magic absorb stuff, this is the only thing we can do.

Absinthe

So let me get this straight....NB's can lock you down or stealth away if they can't kill you outright, DK's can tank and usually kill 5-10 idiots at a time, and templars....well they are templars. And people complain about a sorc running away? Absolutely ludicrous.

I did not bother to vote on this poll as I have a v10 sorc (also a v5 NB). Thus my vote would be skewed. Having said that if you are not a templar then please stop your whining about bolt escape. Buff templars I say and I do not even play one.

Per the video posted within this thread I agree with some points and disagree with others. The video seems quite slanted to the sorc's favor as what was shown is nothing more than 2 people mucking around with abilities. In an actual fight rarely does anything shown actually happen. The best thing said however was let the sorc bolt escape away. Chase him at your peril if you will. I usually feint an attack and have 10-20 people immediately trying to catch up to me while the group I am with is allowed to flank.

Unless you are in a 1v1 bolt escape is not an issue (even then usually the sorc has conceded defeat and only wishes to reset the engagement or is simply trying to live). If your group gets flanked while chasing 1 or 2 sorcs pulling you to into an ambush then that is a YOU problem and not a bolt escape issue.

The theme of this and all threads like it is this "If I can not kill you then you are OP!"

Armitas

Somewhat too strong. While the skill is good, it seems a bit too strong in a pvp environment.

The video that Nordjitsu posted showed that bolt was well balanced around countering melee charges. There should be a give and take between range and melee and we could see that playing out well in the video. But the video failed to show all aspects of how bolt can be used realistically. Though I think the author of the video just overlooked the fine details rather than intentionally excluded them.

Example 1. Sorc passes through melee and melee turns and charges. This is not the case with streak because you are disoriented. That amount of time would be enough to bolt again out of melee range.

Example 2. Sorc bolts while melee sprints after him. Sorc runs out of magic and stops in the video. However the sorc can simply sprint from there, or pop retreating maneuver, or stealth up. There is simply no reason for the sorc to just stop running like that in the video because the sorc still has a full stamina bar unlike the person chasing him. After a full magic bar and stamina bar of bolting and sprinting away from the melee, if the melee actually kept up he would have no stamina to close the gap.

Are there any counters to these two examples where the intent of the sorc is not to fight 1v1 to the end but bail with impunity at the first sign of it being unfavorable? ESO pvp drew me in because it did not allow the "rogue" class to bail on unfavorable fights so I would hate for it to be the case that there still is a class like that.

Halrloprillalar

Completely fine. Players should find counters to the skill if they plan to catch a sorcerer.

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

im a sorc and i dont even have bolt escape, and im vr8. ive used it before a respec, but always foudn it not worth the slot in my skill bar.

not for PVE, but it's on my 'alt' bar for PVP. And mostly for chasing people down, not getting out because... invasion and knockdowns, trololo

kewl

Please add bacon option.

Still_Mind

Somewhat too strong. While the skill is good, it seems a bit too strong in a pvp environment.

Perfectly valid gap-creating skill for in-combat use.

My gripe with it is the hilarious amounts of mobility that Sorcs may attain out of combat - and to get out of combat, or avoid it altogether.