Who the hell pays for the bots

Psychoke

We all know by now that there are shittons of bots in this game,
but my question is
Who the hell pays for the bots? I havent met a single person who either has an insane amount of money or even needs money that bad (ingame money that is). I've searched around on the RWT sites and they all have *** prices and i think even people who consider it get turned down by that! So who is keeping the tens of thousands of bots alive? who is paying for them? aren't we a mature community that doesnt RWT?

Xithian

They're bots. They cost next to nothing to run. What they gather now is an investment for the future when (due to bots exploiting in the first place) it's alot harder to get these resources. I say resources because I doubt it's just gold. High tier upgrade materials are one of the most valued resources in the game, and they are not level tiered. They are also gained by harvesting and refining raw materials, something the bots have been doing nonstop.

There's also the argument that the goldsellers use stolen cards (and that doesn't mean they got them from ESO players; most operate across multiple games).

Keffertjes

Maybe the gold sellers work for ZOS making extre benefits xD Always had these taughts on other MMO's aswell^^

nerevarine1138

Keffertjes wrote: »

Maybe the gold sellers work for ZOS making extre benefits xD Always had these taughts on other MMO's aswell^^

And you've always been wrong. Developers lose money on bots and gold-sellers.

Bhakura

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And you've always been wrong. Developers lose money on bots and gold-sellers.

i dont see how, they have to pay subs as everyone else.
Sure they say they work on it, sure theres screenshots of GMs with spiffy names like Botbasher or whatever.
if those bots found a way to run ESO for free they wouldve been gone a long time ago.

nerevarine1138

Bhakura wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And you've always been wrong. Developers lose money on bots and gold-sellers.

i dont see how, they have to pay subs as everyone else.
Sure they say they work on it, sure theres screenshots of GMs with spiffy names like Botbasher or whatever.
if those bots found a way to run ESO for free they wouldve been gone a long time ago.

A sub paid for with a stolen credit card ends up getting refunded.

But no, you're probably right. Every other MMO has issues with bots due to the international conspiracy of developers.

Csub

The answer to the question in the title is simple: aliens.

Bhakura

Always someone has to exagerate.
it isnt a worldwide international conspiracy, games like these arent here for your entertainment, they are here to make money.
And youre not gonna tell me every single botter account is one payed with stolen creditcards, if that was the case there would be TONS of those.
Even so, if they where ALL payed with stolen cards and all those subs where refunded, they would been gone a long time ago, but they still here botting their merry way, arent they.
Why remove paying subs.

nerevarine1138

Bhakura wrote: »

Always someone has to exagerate.
it isnt a worldwide international conspiracy, games like these arent here for your entertainment, they are here to make money.
And youre not gonna tell me every single botter account is one payed with stolen creditcards, if that was the case there would be TONS of those.
Even so, if they where ALL payed with stolen cards and all those subs where refunded, they would been gone a long time ago, but they still here botting their merry way, arent they.
Why remove paying subs.

That's not how it works, and if you can't be bothered to look up the data on over a decade's worth of botting in MMOs, I can't be bothered to summarize it here.

Alurria

Bhakura wrote: »

Always someone has to exagerate.
it isnt a worldwide international conspiracy, games like these arent here for your entertainment, they are here to make money.
And youre not gonna tell me every single botter account is one payed with stolen creditcards, if that was the case there would be TONS of those.
Even so, if they where ALL payed with stolen cards and all those subs where refunded, they would been gone a long time ago, but they still here botting their merry way, arent they.
Why remove paying subs.

Because they interfere with real players who play this game. Killing everything like a swarm of locusts. The gold sellers would go away if players would quit buying from them.

Rev Rielle

They often use someone else's hacked account.

Ultimately though it is your fellow player that pays for these bots by supporting and buying from the gold sellers. So if you want someone to blame, blame them. If there wasn't a niche they (Gold Sellers etc) wouldn't exploit it.

Bhakura

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

That's not how it works, and if you can't be bothered to look up the data on over a decade's worth of botting in MMOs, I can't be bothered to summarize it here.

But its exactly how it works, any company releasing a game is interested in only one thing, your money, not how you like playing it.
A paying sub is income and adds to the whole, bot accounts pay, the whole goes up, not down, they remove the bot accounts and the whole goes down. Its simple math.
You really think they release a game and are unable to track people using their servers and what they are doing and how to stop them?
Im not a computer expert or come close to understanding how it all works i find it hard to believe it takes THIS long to stop them, hence only logical conclusion they are stalling to reap in the subs.
I dont blame Zenimax, they are doing what any smart company does, look at their income, its all that matters.
Any reports you send are replied with automated replies and pretty sure deleted right away.

nerevarine1138

Bhakura wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

That's not how it works, and if you can't be bothered to look up the data on over a decade's worth of botting in MMOs, I can't be bothered to summarize it here.

But its exactly how it works, any company releasing a game is interested in only one thing, your money, not how you like playing it.
A paying sub is income and adds to the whole, bot accounts pay, the whole goes up, not down, they remove the bot accounts and the whole goes down. Its simple math.
You really think they release a game and are unable to track people using their servers and what they are doing and how to stop them?
Im not a computer expert or come close to understanding how it all works i find it hard to believe it takes THIS long to stop them, hence only logical conclusion they are stalling to reap in the subs.
I dont blame Zenimax, they are doing what any smart company does, look at their income, its all that matters.
Any reports you send are replied with automated replies and pretty sure deleted right away.

Of course. That's why Blizzard et al. waste thousands upon thousands of dollars combating bots and gold sellers. That's why they file charges against bot developers. That's all just a front to make us believe that they're doing something.

Bhakura

Ah yes forgot, this is wow

Alurria

Bhakura wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

That's not how it works, and if you can't be bothered to look up the data on over a decade's worth of botting in MMOs, I can't be bothered to summarize it here.

But its exactly how it works, any company releasing a game is interested in only one thing, your money, not how you like playing it.
A paying sub is income and adds to the whole, bot accounts pay, the whole goes up, not down, they remove the bot accounts and the whole goes down. Its simple math.
You really think they release a game and are unable to track people using their servers and what they are doing and how to stop them?
Im not a computer expert or come close to understanding how it all works i find it hard to believe it takes THIS long to stop them, hence only logical conclusion they are stalling to reap in the subs.
I dont blame Zenimax, they are doing what any smart company does, look at their income, its all that matters.
Any reports you send are replied with automated replies and pretty sure deleted right away.

That's not logic it's opinion and the fact is they would lose more legitimate customers then the bots would leave too. But hey whatever you want to think... Oh and you are wrong about the CS replies. Stop spreading incorrect info.

class101

Psychoke wrote: »

Who the hell pays for the bots?

They are gold farmers doing another business, powerleveling service, a customer pay x euros and get its VT/50 character in y days, and farmers are making profit out of this by multiboxing so that they can powerlevel several customers at once

Psychoke wrote: »

I havent met a single person who either has an insane amount of money

Ofc they will never tell you that because you can report them

Bhakura

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

That's not logic it's opinion and the fact is they would lose more legitimate customers then the bots would leave too. But hey whatever you want to think... Oh and you are wrong about the CS replies. Stop spreading incorrect info.

got some proof about that? Been reporting spammers and bots from day 1, all i get are automated replies.
Spammers emailing me i report as harassment, now harassment report asks me if i want to report a goldspammer. Click yes, notified, deleted.
Um yea ...

nerevarine1138

Bhakura wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

That's not logic it's opinion and the fact is they would lose more legitimate customers then the bots would leave too. But hey whatever you want to think... Oh and you are wrong about the CS replies. Stop spreading incorrect info.

got some proof about that? Been reporting spammers and bots from day 1, all i get are automated replies.
Spammers emailing me i report as harassment, now harassment report asks me if i want to report a goldspammer. Click yes, notified, deleted.
Um yea ...

Of course you get an automated reply. What would you like instead?

Bhakura

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Of course you get an automated reply. What would you like instead?

A game that doesnt involve waisting time on reporting bots perhaps?

nerevarine1138

Bhakura wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Of course you get an automated reply. What would you like instead?

A game that doesnt involve waisting time on reporting bots perhaps?

Cool. Call us back when you find that.

Bhakura

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Cool. Call us back when you find that.

tell that to zenimax
And already found that, TSW has no bots, played it since closed beta, did every content times over, havent seen a single bot.

zaria

Bhakura wrote: »

Always someone has to exagerate.
it isnt a worldwide international conspiracy, games like these arent here for your entertainment, they are here to make money.
And youre not gonna tell me every single botter account is one payed with stolen creditcards, if that was the case there would be TONS of those.
Even so, if they where ALL payed with stolen cards and all those subs where refunded, they would been gone a long time ago, but they still here botting their merry way, arent they.
Why remove paying subs.

Idiot buys gold, his credit card data is collected, they then buy some TES accounts and something else who is their profit. The TES accounts are used to generate more gold to fool more people. They also hack accounts.

Now say somebody charged you for two extra copies of TES, some chance you would not even notice, if you did it would be then you looked at the transactions at end of month, you then contact credit card company who don't approve transaction. Now it take even more time before ZOS notice and then before the account is canceled, they could use the account from 14-30 days before it was canceled.

And yes any MMO uses a lot of resources fighting bots, this is hard, WOW still have plenty of bots, you don't see them much at least not outside battlegrounds then I was playing.

Nox_Aeterna

This game is a huge gold sink mate.

So yeah , i can totally see who pays for the bots to keep farming 24/7.

Alurria

Bhakura wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Mm

That's not logic it's opinion and the fact is they would lose more legitimate customers then the bots would leave too. But hey whatever you want to think... Oh and you are wrong about the CS replies. Stop spreading incorrect info.

got some proof about that? Been reporting spammers and bots from day 1, all i get are automated replies.
Spammers emailing me i report as harassment, now harassment report asks me if i want to report a goldspammer. Click yes, notified, deleted.
Um yea ...

Yes every reply I have got is worded differently, so yeah I do. You know if you are so bent on making the people who work on this game into the bad guy I wonder why you are here. On second thought its obvious

AVCN

Who pays?

Every single integrant of a community pays for the acts of its criminals. Increased taxes, higher insurance costs, etc. Same here. Joe D. Cheater buys stuff from Jack D. Botmeister. Jack's bots annoy players, gamers move away from the game, game's world becomes more boring. Software house has to spend time and money finding ways to hunt bots - time and money which could be used improving other aspects of the game. Since companies must make money, extra costs will be paid by their customers.

If Jack used stolen credit cards, Jack's actions will cause and increase in card's fees - they'll have to do some damage control, hopefully followed by developing enhanced security and their insurance will also cost more. Credit cards companies will charge more.

Credit card company and insurance company will contact police wich will have to investigate and this investigation will be paid by tax money because the police is part of the government. Since we all pay taxes and every time government expenses increase taxes increase too, it'll come from our pockets too.

Tl;dr: we all pay for the bots.

Talmet

Bhakura wrote: »

Im not a computer expert or come close to understanding how it all works i find it hard to believe it takes THIS long to stop them, hence only logical conclusion they are stalling to reap in the subs.

You aren't a computer expert...but you are at least somewhat intelligent, right?

What you are saying is basically the equivalent of:
"Why does it take THIS long for the FBI to stop all robberies/murders/kidnappings/etc?!?! They must be in on it!"

Or
"Why does it take THIS long for bank & credit card companies to stop their databases from being hacked??!?! They must be in on it!"

As for why it takes time, banning an individual bot is not all that helpful, it's nice & all..but much more useful is identifying an account that is using a bot & then tracking everything that account does so that ZOS's computer experts can figure out how to identify that bot program, so that they can automatically ban anyone who is using that bot program. (which happened for the first time in ESO a few weeks ago I think, which is why the teleporting node farming bots are basically gone).

Skillet

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Keffertjes wrote: »

Maybe the gold sellers work for ZOS making extre benefits xD Always had these taughts on other MMO's aswell^^

And you've always been wrong. Developers lose money on bots and gold-sellers.

If the developers were losing money on Bots, Bots would have been eradicated a month ago.

Talmet

Skillet wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Keffertjes wrote: »

Maybe the gold sellers work for ZOS making extre benefits xD Always had these taughts on other MMO's aswell^^

And you've always been wrong. Developers lose money on bots and gold-sellers.

If the developers were losing money on Bots, Bots would have been eradicated a month ago.

Exactly!

Because as we all know, hackers are so easy to stop. I can't believe that they exist anywhere on the internet. /sarcasm

randomriffyrocksprerb18_ESO

Well, they don't earn their revenue from only selling gold in ESO. They sell gold in others games aswell. They're just distributing their overall expenses across all the games that they are participating in including ESO, even when they don't make much money from ESO. So to answer your question, people buying gold from other games is paying for the bots in ESO

Keffertjes

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Keffertjes wrote: »

Maybe the gold sellers work for ZOS making extre benefits xD Always had these taughts on other MMO's aswell^^

And you've always been wrong. Developers lose money on bots and gold-sellers.

Yea and there's my point.

if your loosing money because of that why wouldnt you take advantage of the situation.

Also seems your spending more time on the forum then me so i geuss you have more fun on these forums then in-game + Your sarcasme is amuzing me keep going xD.

Bhakura

Talmet wrote: »

As for why it takes time, banning an individual bot is not all that helpful, it's nice & all..but much more useful is identifying an account that is using a bot & then tracking everything that account does so that ZOS's computer experts can figure out how to identify that bot program, so that they can automatically ban anyone who is using that bot program. (which happened for the first time in ESO a few weeks ago I think, which is why the teleporting node farming bots are basically gone).

So devs have no way to track a character to an account ... very believable. Or it takes ages to do so.
Took me 2 seconds to find this:
[Moderation note : Malicious links - Please do not share bots or hacks links]

And comparing real life crime hardly holds up, were talking about data running on their servers ffs, dont they have logs and stuff?