Make refining materials give leveled mats!

Soloeus

No more dreugh wax or embroidery from Jute. Jute should only give Hemming.

This will stop Jute Bots (who harvest north of Fort Arand) from giving their guilds a definitive advantage in PVP.

This would go a long way toward fighting botters and making their efforts worthless. Normal players will be happy to extract Hemming from Jute; only botters will rage that they can't get Dreugh Wax.

Epona222

As a normal player (albeit one who does a lot of crafting, hence gathering of mats and refining them), I had absolutely no idea you could get dreugh wax from jute - I've played since early access and at one point had over 1000 raw jute stored up (for leveling crafting, and just collected during my adventures, not from bugged nodes or anything) and never got any high level tempers from it. I get higher level tempers from refining higher level raw mats. (EDIT: or from hirelings).

Soloeus

I have gotten high quality mats from Jute, including Dreugh Wax. I know others have. This is why they do it. They farm infinite jute north of Fort Arand, convert it, then they vendor the crap refined jute and keep the rare mats.

Epona222

And there was me thinking I'd put a lot of effort into collecting and refining stuff

gladen5rwb17_ESO

Soloeus wrote: »

No more dreugh wax or embroidery from Jute. Jute should only give Hemming.

This will stop Jute Bots (who harvest north of Fort Arand) from giving their guilds a definitive advantage in PVP.

This would go a long way toward fighting botters and making their efforts worthless. Normal players will be happy to extract Hemming from Jute; only botters will rage that they can't get Dreugh Wax.

Brilliant idea, let's nerf getting legendary items from Jute because of bots ..... again. How about NO. Instead deal with bots accounts, players that buy from bots and the black market industry in general instead. How? I do not know, but we have already had nerfs due to bots, enough all ready.

Tavore1138

You'd have to get pretty good RNG to get gold mats from baee resources without investing points in the refining trees of the relevant craft, my main has easily passed the 10,000 node barrier and has the 3rd tier refining abilities but can't have dropped more than a a few dozen gold mats at most.

The problem with nerfing drops is that like all of these ideas you screw over many more honest players. I am not in a guild but surely it is legitimate fir some guild members to burn points in crafting and then do the refining for guild mates who have not?

Enkil

I have smithing/wood/cloth to 25+ and been playing since early access. Haven't improved anything beyond blue level and have 1-2 gold and maybe 3-6 purple mats of each type since then and one I got from hireling. The current system works fine for normal players. No need to nerf it because of bots.. Would just make then swarm higher level spawns which would be even worse.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

actually it isn't a problem with jute or bots. it is that they have instantly respawing jute nodes. if they had to actually wait for the nodes to respawn normally they would never get enough raw jute to actually get the mats. so really a simple bug fix is all that it takes to solve this particular problem.

Soloeus

Even for non-botting, Jute should NOT give Dreugh Wax.

Jute: Hemming + (rare) Embroidery.
Cotton: Hemming, (Uncommon) Embroidery.

With this kind of model, resources will give the enhanced mats that make sense.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

Soloeus wrote: »

Even for non-botting, Jute should NOT give Dreugh Wax.

Jute: Hemming + (rare) Embroidery.
Cotton: Hemming, (Uncommon) Embroidery.

With this kind of model, resources will give the enhanced mats that make sense.

Why? the drop rates are insanely low, I have refined probably 1000+ jute and never got a single dreugh wax. but if you are a bot using an instant respawn node you could probably get 200k a day, which might get you some. throw in 5 more bots doing it at different nodes and it is a problem, unless you fix the nodes then it all goes away.

TBH I always assumed there was a very small chance of getting higher level mats but in all my experiences I basically observed the method you are suggesting be implemented, so without the exploitable nodes, there should be no problem.

dreamcatcher

Soloeus wrote: »

Even for non-botting, Jute should NOT give Dreugh Wax.

Jute: Hemming + (rare) Embroidery.
Cotton: Hemming, (Uncommon) Embroidery.

With this kind of model, resources will give the enhanced mats that make sense.

With this kind of model, bots will simply farm Coldharbour, not fort Arand. They will not even level up (there are lots of v1 bots in Coldharbour, btw), simply teleport to another player in Coldharbour and enjoy their infinite respawns there.

The way to solve a problem (apart from improving security measures) is to imply a cooldown on node, so it can not respawn for ~1 minute or imply a cooldown on player, so one player can loot same node only after 5 minutes. I like the second way: normally, player would not harvest the same node again, again and again or run in circles all the day long.

Also, yes, I would like to see scaled chances of temper extraction. I buy raw materials from other players and I'm awfully tired of explaining them why I pay same price per stack of iron and galatite ore.

There will, however, always be bots and farmers in this game, deal with it. Not because ZOS treats them in wrong way, but because both these parties will improve their strategy. I hope their quantity will reduce after 1.1, though.

dreamcatcher

Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »

Why? the drop rates are insanely low, I have refined probably 1000+ jute and never got a single dreugh wax. but if you are a bot using an instant respawn node you could probably get 200k a day, which might get you some. throw in 5 more bots doing it at different nodes and it is a problem, unless you fix the nodes then it all goes away.

TBH I always assumed there was a very small chance of getting higher level mats but in all my experiences I basically observed the method you are suggesting be implemented, so without the exploitable nodes, there should be no problem.

Drop rates are NOT insanely low. I gathered some statistics — you are expected to get a legendary temper out of 3-4 stacks of raw materials (extraction perks 3/3), would it be jute or voidbloom, iron or voidstone, raw material tier does not matter. So there IS a problem, actually.

Tavore1138

dreamcatcher wrote: »

Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »

Why? the drop rates are insanely low, I have refined probably 1000+ jute and never got a single dreugh wax. but if you are a bot using an instant respawn node you could probably get 200k a day, which might get you some. throw in 5 more bots doing it at different nodes and it is a problem, unless you fix the nodes then it all goes away.

TBH I always assumed there was a very small chance of getting higher level mats but in all my experiences I basically observed the method you are suggesting be implemented, so without the exploitable nodes, there should be no problem.

Drop rates are NOT insanely low. I gathered some statistics — you are expected to get a legendary temper out of 3-4 stacks of raw materials (extraction perks 3/3), would it be jute or voidbloom, iron or voidstone, raw material tier does not matter. So there IS a problem, actually.

You have to level your crafting up quite high to get the extraction perks at full, not really seeing why someone who is willing to put in the time to harvest the necessary nodes honestly even at lowish levels shouldn't be able to get the odd gold & purple item as a reward.

The problem with these 'simple' fixes is just like badly written laws, they affect the innocent and have an overall negative impact... I.e. Honest crafters getting effed off and leaving the game while bots just find new ways to profit.

We all want bots out but the problem need a smart solution not a fix that effectively removes the benefits of player cooperation & effort.

Fairydragon3

Improvement items are for every level, so no dont take this out, I havent even gotten one from this yet and I have 2 points in there. I just get Lucky with hirelings

Tavore1138

Fairydragon3 wrote: »

I just get Lucky with hirelings

You should not be 'getting lucky' with hirelings, many countries have employment law to stop this sort of thing... you should be ashamed of yourself!

Vanathi

This would just push them to whichever zone you would have those items drop from.

sylviermoone

Yeah...... I don't think this is actually solving any problem, only hurting normal players and driving up the cost of these mats by nerfing their (already low) drop rate.

I've refined a TON of Jute and Maple leveling up my clothier and woodworkers, and I have precisely (1) elegant lining and (1) turpen. Neither have actually come from the refining process, either; they are both from my hirelings. From my experience, this is working as intended.

Sadly, I don't think the listed "fix" does ANYTHING to punish bots, but could potentially punish real humans that play the game.

Fairydragon3

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Fairydragon3 wrote: »

I just get Lucky with hirelings

You should not be 'getting lucky' with hirelings, many countries have employment law to stop this sort of thing... you should be ashamed of yourself!

They Know they want it

babylon

What? No, drop rates are extremely low, this would only affect normal players.

They need to deal with the bots directly and BAN the accounts (not just ban the characters).

No more screwing with the regular players!

As it is they already need to undo all the damage they've done to us regular players with drop rates and containers - people are angry and getting frustrated with how hard it is to feel rewarded in this game as it is.

Soloeus

I shouldn't have the same odds to get Elegant Lining from Spidersilk as I do from Jute.