Please do not take this game in the same direction as other mmo companies have done in the past

Chryos

Please do not change this game to the point that it's no longer Elder Scrolls and becomes like every other MMO. Please do not cater to the "entitled" generation of MMORPGers.

Wayshrines (for example): In the old days of MMOs you were forced to actually have to explore and the game "felt" larger. Now the standard is be able to instant port everywhere, making the world seem less tangible.

Auction Houses: Bad idea. Ruins economy and makes it easier for bots to do business. Causes undercutting. Makes the games treasure that are normally earned through playing the game as intended, meaningless. Makes the game world emptier causing less people to interact with each other.

Difficulty: Did ZOE expect this many people to reach VR1 in the first month? If this is a never ending game world, are we not cutting short the life of this game. Now you guys will have to rush out new content to appease those whom are impatient and threaten to quit because they are bored. People complain because it cost too much gold to repair armor, or they complain when an xp penalty is enforced

At what point does catering to anyone who complains and threatens to quit change the spirit of ESO itself?

If anyone ruins ESO, it wont be ZOE, it will be the players themselves.

Agree or Disagree?

Catflinger

Agree, I'm loving the level of challenge and the way I am able to explore and how I can try out different skill builds and abilities even as I level. This is a brand new game with vastly different systems than other MMOs out there and I don't understand why people are in such a rush.

Chryos

I agree with you too. We might be a dying breed though.

Thete

Who is Zoe and why couldn't you just pm her?

Chryos

There, better?

Hellkath

Agreed!
I find the game perfect as it is (except for all the minor bugs). Don't change the core gameplay! don't make it easier! Don't reset all our skills 50 times in the next year to 'try' and balance things out! Cause it'll NEVER be balanced for everyone's taste.. there's always people to complain about everything.

Love the game, keep up the good work in clearing out Bots, Gold miners and bugs.. other than that, don't touch a thing! (unless you want to add more classes and or races )

Huckdabuck

Chryos wrote: »

Wayshrines (for example): In the old days of MMOs you were forced to actually have to explore and the game "felt" larger. Now the standard is be able to instant port everywhere, making the world seem less tangible.

Auction Houses: Bad idea. Ruins economy and makes it easier for bots to do business. Causes undercutting. Makes the games treasure that are normally earned through playing the game as intended, meaningless. Makes the game world emptier causing less people to interact with each other.

Difficulty: Did ZOE expect this many people to reach VR1 in the first month? If this is a never ending game world, are we not cutting short the life of this game. Now you guys will have to rush out new content to appease those whom are impatient and threaten to quit because they are bored. People complain because it cost too much gold to repair armor, or they complain when an xp penalty is enforced

At what point does catering to anyone who complains and threatens to quit change the spirit of ESO itself?

Point 1 - Disagree totally....I honestly don't want to run back and forth turning in quests. I enjoyed the trip out there and that was good enough for me.

Point 2 - Disagree totally....An AH allows players to find items which they may not have won a lottery loot drop on (even after searching and killing for hours). An AH actually creates a more stable economy by being able to value an item instead of "WOW I've got this awesome piece of white gear that I can sell for 5 bazillion gold!" Supply and Demand economics will always work in games like this. It really helps the casuals and noobs by showing them the value of an item as perceived by the server and it's players.

Point 2 - Agree somewhat....the difficulty of the game feels about right with what I've slogged through (Vet 6 at the moment). Honestly they had to know people were going to blow through the content in locust fashion.....the writing has been on the wall for years showing how MMO players are in general hence the veteran rank grind to stall for true end game content. People complain about anything and everything....who cares just do you and let them do them.

Side comment on "the spirit of ESO".....what in the world is that exactly? Seeing as ESO is a fresh born MMO, there really isn't a spirit since it's essentially a NEW title put forth to the MMO masses. Basically this is an Elder Scrolls based MMO (even though people rarely take advantage of the MMO portion of it and group up in PvE) but it's not any of it's predecessors and should have it's own vibe.

Just my 2 pennies!

Gulvar

Wayshrines: I was surprised that there are as many as there are. I'm not opposed to them but we probably didn't need as many as we have. Let's not be disingenuous though. In the 90's you could chop trees for 25 minutes and have enough gold to buy a set of worldwide travel runes in UO. Later in games like EQ and WoW relatively small amounts of platinum or gold could get you ports nearly anywhere within minutes. Travel "in the old days" was different but we didn't walk uphill in snow both ways very long post-launch.

Auction Houses: Macro, Micro, and Principles during my undergrad taught me to not argue economics on video game forums. People can believe whatever they choose to believe.

Difficulty: I'm happy with the difficulty. The mechanics in most fights I've encountered are somewhat simple but the game throws a lot of damage at us and that keeps us on our toes.

People complaining in general: It's a video game message board. People are going to complain. Others will complain about people complaining. If we allow people to vent and simply state our opinions without turning everything into an argument someone has to win then the forums can be peaceful.

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO

Chryos wrote: »

Auction Houses: Bad idea.

This game has no economy at all. And you want to keep it that way.

ESO is in desperate need of a global or provincial marketplace. This game's economy is so bad that it finishes in second place for the worst economy implemented in a game in the past 2 years.

Second only to Omerta: City of Gangsters, for its elementary school, lemonade stand economy.

ChairGraveyard

Global AHs are the stupidest thing to ever exist. There is no WalMart in Tamriel, get over it.

So you can't buy max-crafted gear for 10g on release day. Big freaking deal.

Chryos

@Gulvar Actually I really would like your opinion on AH's.

Chryos

You guys bring up good points. Those are just my feelings from my experiences, and they arent right or wrong per se.

One thing is good tho, and that is people are passionate about this game so far. That shows people care. Minus my worries, I absolutely love this game and I hope people stick around. Cuz there is some new MMOs in the works. It's nice to be on the pioneering edge of a new game, that is for sure.

Sadae

I honestly swore to never go near an MMO again. I'm so tired of the spoiled whiny brats of today's generation. They want quick push-button solutions to everything, expect instant gratification without earning it, and have absolutely ZERO sense of challenge or exploration!

Everything should be self-found only. No trading at all! Which would also mean no bots and no gold buyers either! When you see a player in a shiny new hard-to-get suit of armor, you'd know he/she earned it!

With a monthly fee (no pay-to-win, beyond gold buyers anyway), and being based on Elder Scrolls, this felt like an MMO I could enjoy again. Now if it were possible to make a 35+ year-old-only server that'd be perfect! Then we wouldn't have to see all that childish banter and constant whining in chat, and mostly have people who actually wanted to PLAY the game, and not just rush to max level then cry they're bored.

Asawasa

Sadae wrote: »

I honestly swore to never go near an MMO again....

Everything should be self-found only. No trading at all! Which would also mean no bots and no gold buyers either! When you see a player in a shiny new hard-to-get suit of armor, you'd know he/she earned it!

this right here makes me want to say i wish you never did go near this MMO

Rochette

Chryos wrote: »

Please do not change this game to the point that it's no longer Elder Scrolls and becomes like every other MMO.
Agree or Disagree?

Thank you Chryos for the post.
Ik agree with you: Hands off this game!
Two manny ganes have been spoiled by the (on the forums) yelling players. They who want to make every gane a wow game. And after they have done that, they say it is a bad copy from wow and leave the game.

Ik core game is very very good. Who needs flying? we have a better transport system and ik cost almost nothinh

Game economics? You mean open the road for bots and golddiggers? They have very litte to find in this game. Nice!
No you just need to pick up mats when you walk in his world and save it.

Bags and bank space can be a problem, but you can buy space cheap.

I love this game. No need for old wow (and I did play wow from beta).

Sylveria_Relden

As to wayshrines/exploration, I could take it or leave it. I've played games where you had "porting" in some form or another and also games where you had to actually time-sink explore, too. I prefer the time-sink method, personally- as it makes me feel more immersed in the environment. (taking more time to explore and see everything around me)

As to the economy- it really depends on the implementation. If they do similar to DAOC with the "consignment merchant" implementation- then it's going to fail horribly. (almost as bad as the current "guild" market) When I played DAOC and they introduced that whole thing- I was asking myself "They seriously expect me to browse thousands of consignment merchants in player housing just so I can buy something??" and made me wonder why they hadn't included a singular search interface so I could compare pricing, etc.

If they do the open shard-based economy, it's going to need a lot of "maintaining" so that people aren't manipulating the markets, too. There's fair trading- then there's those who in no matter what game will exploit the system to gain an advantage over others.

As to "balance" of the difficulty- it's in progress. This is always a dilemma, because what do you do with those who've already attained the ranks they have due to exploits or the system being imbalanced? Give them a "free pass"? Why should you, if you just made the game more difficult for everyone else? Seriously, ask yourself the question but consider all the variables, too. It's the same for "nerf/buff x class", etc. as well. No matter where you go, what you do, you'll always run into people who vary in opinion- what matters is facilitating communication to avoid escalating conflict. As long as two people in this world believe differently from each other on (fill in the blank) subject, there will be conflict.

As to the question of pandering to the masses- I agree completely in the sense that ZOS should continue to poll their players for feedback to ensure the highest degree of service- personally I'd like to see them soliciting more for feedback either in email or the form of polls, the latter of which is always skewed by the numbers that actually participate on the forums, versus the actual number of players actually engaged in content.

Kendaric

I'd love to see the number of wayshrines reduced, but that's not going to happen. About half the number of shrines per area would be more than sufficient, they aren't needed every 20 steps.

I also agree with the no global auction house. It's not needed and it destroys interaction with crafters.

As for difficulty, it varies wildly. Some pre-50 overland mobs could be a bit tougher, while the veteran mobs could use a little toning down (especially when coming in packs of three or more).

Sadae

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

As to the question of pandering to the masses- I agree completely in the sense that ZOS should continue to poll their players for feedback to ensure the highest degree of service- personally I'd like to see them soliciting more for feedback either in email or the form of polls, the latter of which is always skewed by the numbers that actually participate on the forums, versus the actual number of players actually engaged in content.

Absolutely not! This is exactly how games get ruined! It takes true creative talent to make a good game, not vague concepts by the gamers. Oh sure, they THINK their ideas are great, but they almost never are.

One game maker decided to add 6 new DLCs for their game. They designed 3 of them in-house, and had the players design the other 3. When they came out, everybody hated the 3 designed by the players.

They need to stop doing polls, and just hire people with true talent. This will always produce the best results. And NEVER cave in the the whiny kids who want to beat end-game bosses in the crappy noob gear. They will cry and they will cry (it's too hard!) , but guess what? Now have a REAL challenge! They won't give up until they finally beat that boss, and then actually be able to feel proud of themselves when they do!

7788b14_ESO

There are a lot of threads like this and the problem is that this game has concepts that were done about 8 or 9 years ago. I've played games that started with no mounts and you had to run from large cities to small towns and outposts. Games in which you had to make your own maps because the game didn't have any. It was fun while it lasted but it ended for a reason.

Times have changed people have changed. There will always be people who say lets have 15% xp lose on death to make it interesting. But thankfully those days are gone for the most part.

When ever a game tries to bring that stuff back players don't hang around except for the hardcore and hardcore players are a minority, so the game suffers with low population problems.

As to auction houses. The reason most MMO's have them is because they work for the majority of players who use them. No one is forced to use them.

Biding_My_Time

Chryos wrote: »

Wayshrines (for example): In the old days of MMOs you were forced to actually have to explore and the game "felt" larger. Now the standard is be able to instant port everywhere, making the world seem less tangible.

So you want it to be like old MMOs (in which you had to explore to get TP points), or like other old MMOs (in which you don't have to explore to get TP points ... and what MMOs were these?). I'm already confused.

Chryos wrote: »

Auction Houses: Bad idea. Ruins economy and makes it easier for bots to do business. Causes Undercutting. Makes the games treasure that are normally earned through playing the game as intended, meaningless. Makes the game world emptier causing less people to interact with each other.

Auction houses don't ruin economies, the practices that take place using auction houses can. Those same practices, as well as some new ones this game's setup affords, can be used to ruin game's economies (pluralized purposefully). Bots, undercutting and day-traders are not going away simply due to lack of an AH. To assume that your existing in your own little economic bubble within a trading guild completely removes you from those practices is naive, thanks in large part to being allowed to participate in multiple guilds simultaneously. Just because you're not aware of people buying products on the cheap in one guild just to turn around and resell them at higher prices in the "honest" guilds, doesn't mean it's not happening. In the end, it just means you're being exploited in different ways. Even if we weren't allowed to be in multiple guilds, this process would still occur via alts.

And the presence of an AH doesn't make the world "emptier", lack of entertainment does. This concept should be pretty self-explanatory so I won't elaborate further here.

Chryos wrote: »

Difficulty: Did ZOE expect this many people to reach VR1 in the first month? If this is a never ending game world, are we not cutting short the life of this game. Now you guys will have to rush out new content to appease those whom are impatient and threaten to quit because they are bored. People complain because it cost too much gold to repair armor, or they complain when an xp penalty is enforced

At what point does catering to anyone who complains and threatens to quit change the spirit of ESO itself?

Every modern MMO has this issue. I for one am glad this isn't another Lineage II or FFXI in terms of how long it takes to progress, but others may not be. Ultimately, decisions regarding this will be financial ones, specifically which decisions will lead to the greatest amount of sub retention. I'm taking my sweet time playing through this game, so I could care less about end game at the moment, but I'm just one person.

Chryos wrote: »

If anyone ruins ESO, it wont be ZOE, it will be the players themselves.

I can agree with this to some degree, but it takes two to tango here. There's lots I'm disappointed about with this game that doesn't have anything to do with the players, but in matters of issues such as potential ruination of the economy, that is generally player driven.

Chryos wrote: »

Please do not cater to the "entitled" generation of MMORPGers.

No offense meant here, but your entire post sounds by definition "entitled" to me. You like the game how it is and feel it shouldn't change. Screw what anyone else wants because it may ruin your good time.

Varivox9

Wayshrines. I think it is good as is. I'd want some better placement in towns since they never seem to be located anywhere useful. Other than that, it's good.

AH: I can see your point, but right now the alternative is to pray to RNGezus for the loot you want, pray to the god of insurmountable odds for finding things you want on the guild store(s)(thank got they made 5 guilds, now you can have 4 trading guilds and still never find what you want!), OR, spam /zone with "WTB/WTS". The current system relegates guilds to nothing more than a glorified vendor, encourages chatspam (without a dedicated trade chat), and does nothing anywhere. I don't want an AH since I think everything being on one megaserver is a huge issue there, but SOMETHING needs to be done.

Difficulty: I remember my first beta and fighting a monster in a quest where it kicked my butt, but when I finally won, I felt awesome. Right now, there is no PvE content (aside from group dungeons of course) designed where I have a challenge. There will always be those people who rush content, thats the way they play, but for ESO to have no real endgame aside from "get to VR10" ready on launch is a HHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEE issue. If your charging me a sub fee, you better damn well have SOMETHING ready for endgame content. I'm not asking for 10 years worth of content to compete with WoW, I'm just asking for anything more than what amounts to newgame+.

Biding_My_Time

Varivox9 wrote: »

AH: I can see your point, but right now the alternative is to pray to RNGezus for the loot you want, pray to the god of insurmountable odds for finding things you want on the guild store(s)(thank got they made 5 guilds, now you can have 4 trading guilds and still never find what you want!), OR, spam /zone with "WTB/WTS". The current system relegates guilds to nothing more than a glorified vendor, encourages chatspam (without a dedicated trade chat), and does nothing anywhere. I don't want an AH since I think everything being on one megaserver is a huge issue there, but SOMETHING needs to be done.

Difficulty: I remember my first beta and fighting a monster in a quest where it kicked my butt, but when I finally won, I felt awesome. Right now, there is no PvE content (aside from group dungeons of course) designed where I have a challenge. There will always be those people who rush content, thats the way they play, but for ESO to have no real endgame aside from "get to VR10" ready on launch is a HHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEE issue. If your charging me a sub fee, you better damn well have SOMETHING ready for endgame content. I'm not asking for 10 years worth of content to compete with WoW, I'm just asking for anything more than what amounts to newgame+.

I find so much in your post I have to agree with. In terms of the RNGeesus, what's worse about this setup is how completely unnecessary loot is in this game. Aside from the people running around in purely cosmetic (see broken) armor, my most recent attempt to sate my altitis is a character who plays completely naked, save for his body paint, Coldharbor shackles and a belt (because a belt with nothing else on just makes for a great navel in this game). Aside from weapons and the occasional piece of plate for blacksmithing research, I vendor everything. I've only run into one fight I couldn't handle so far, and it was due to my being far too low level to really attempt it.

And I like your point about lack of end game content while making a point to recognize this isn't a ten year old WoW and it shouldn't have as much content. That being said, at some point I'd like to stop having this discussion about lack of end game at launch every time a new MMO comes out. "Hey we were really surprised by the amount of people who capped in a day/week. We'll have something for you in a month or two." Isn't this common knowledge at this point? Don't be fooled, it's not a surprise to the developers, it's just selective apathy in the name of quicker launches and profits. I'm not saying it's wrong, people just need to stop defending it.

SuperScrubby

This game is already turning into other MMOs but possibly worse. The difficulty is a joke and to add insult to injury the only real means to progress in VR content is through doing really boring quests.

Supposedly you can dungeon grind and get some mediocre exp from solo pvp, otherwise you don't get too much.

They haven't balanced anything and have instead nerfed things to solve problems.

Exploration in this game is a joke. They basically point everything out for you on the map which makes it lack the actual joy of finding something new.

The AH is a mixed bag. I don't bother buying anything because crafting for me is boring and does nothing to further my gameplay since I can get by using crappy drops and quest rewards.

Like other's have said, if the developers didn't know that people would blitz through easy content then that's sad.

Chryos

I refuse to download a minimap addon!!!!

Chryos

All of you have some valid points that I respect, but like you guys, I try to push for what I want, I guess we all do in an effort to have the game they way we want. I gotz ta speak my mind ,so at least I can sleep better at night

Chryos

"So you want it to be like old MMOs (in which you had to explore to get TP points), or like other old MMOs (in which you don't have to explore to get TP points ... and what MMOs were these?). I'm already confused."

I kinda liked the old eq1 days where there was a tp class and u could teleport to certain druid circles or mage thingies. Druids and mages would charge people a toll or donation, i dunno i liked that system, but then again, I was a druid, lol. mainly tho, theres waaay too many tp points in every zone, like an excessive amount.

Chryos

Sadae wrote: »

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

As to the question of pandering to the masses- I agree completely in the sense that ZOS should continue to poll their players for feedback to ensure the highest degree of service- personally I'd like to see them soliciting more for feedback either in email or the form of polls, the latter of which is always skewed by the numbers that actually participate on the forums, versus the actual number of players actually engaged in content.

Absolutely not! This is exactly how games get ruined! It takes true creative talent to make a good game, not vague concepts by the gamers. Oh sure, they THINK their ideas are great, but they almost never are.

One game maker decided to add 6 new DLCs for their game. They designed 3 of them in-house, and had the players design the other 3. When they came out, everybody hated the 3 designed by the players.

They need to stop doing polls, and just hire people with true talent. This will always produce the best results. And NEVER cave in the the whiny kids who want to beat end-game bosses in the crappy noob gear. They will cry and they will cry (it's too hard!) , but guess what? Now have a REAL challenge! They won't give up until they finally beat that boss, and then actually be able to feel proud of themselves when they do!

You got a point, it's like changing up someone elses art to make it your own, instead of enjoying and appreciating it. Companies end up bowing down to the customer because, well, they got to eat.

Chryos

Make sure you guys show each other some love, and use the reactions feature.

Chryos

"Exploration in this game is a joke. They basically point everything out for you on the map which makes it lack the actual joy of finding something new."

What if there was no map?, and you were forced to remember, or go the old route of EQatlas? How big would the world seem without a map? Could you handle playing ESO without one?

(I do like a big map feature, but I do remember a time when you either had to make your own, or print one that someone else made.)

(SIDE NOTE: You do realize the more electronics we have to do memory functions to replace what our brain used to do, the worse our brains will get, in fact, our brains will de-evolve if we do not use them, just like any other animals thats lost the use of appendages they did not need anymore)

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

ZOE? you mean ZOS?

Ezeklol

This has to be a troll post?

Theres little i can say that ive found good in eso but the Wayshrines system is one of the best ways to get around i have ever seen
Even with this you still get to see a nice amount of scenery

Also regarding an auction house, if a heafty tax was applied i think this would work well too.