Stereo-3D - Get into the game !

Ghanth

Greetings adventurers,
Greetings developpers,

I would like to let you know that ESO looks AWSOME with stereo-3D. Although not perfect yet, seeing those wonderfull landscapes, towns, villages, architectures and creatures with depth gives a serious boost to immersion.
Especially as you play 1st person view, you almost get INTO the game, forgeting the flat of the screen!

So what can be done to make everything related to stereo-3D work as expected?
Well, first,

• enable a REAL DX9 fullscreen mode to enable stereo-3D mode at game's launch.

Then (there is not a long way to go to make it perfect if you at Zenimax could just fix those minor issues):

• the shadows depth has to be tweaked (they look out of convergence acyually)
• the moons have to be pushed back at infine plane (they appear too near actually)
• reflections need 3D fix (seems depth is not right actually)
• flame bulbs needs depth rendering (they are 2D actually)

ESO could be one of the best looking game in 3D stereo if you care.
I sincerly hope you will take that thing in consideration and give everyone the possibility to enjoy this game at its fullest!

cheers!

*EDIT:

GOOD NEWS fellow!
It is now possible to enjoy ESO in 3D stereo with (almost) full effects!

"How to" for new comers:
To play ESO in 3D stereo (almost) full effect, you will need to follow instructions to "kick 3Dstereo" at game start, also need to install some files to fix previously discribed issues. Be sure to read everything explained in the link below (including comment section).

Here it is : 3Dvision FIX for ESO on HelixMod

Fixed (full credits to user mike_ar69 for this):
- Shadows
- Lighting (most of it)
- Water reflections
- Put cross-hair and Hud at depth

remaining issues:
- Some specular lighting issues on rooftops, especially when raining
- Specular lighting on windows
- Raindrops on the ground are at screen depth
- Magic effects on the ground are rendered a little too deep

Enjoy!

ps: a single (talented) user managed to fix this in few days only! HURRAY! Now let's hope developpers will officialize this step forward in future patches and will acheive the 3D stereo fixing completely to make ESO look perfect in 3Dstereo!

Auric_ESO

true full screen is in on the pts right now. In the 1.1 patch. Hopefully this week or next it will be pushed out

SirAndy

Yeah, i made a post with similar comments somewhere (might have been in the PTS forums).

Besides some of the effects rendered in 2D, most of the game looks great with 3D vision.

My biggest complaint right now is the crosshair which is painted as a 2D UI element and in 3D it's right at the tip of your nose and very distracting.
Also, it seems some of the shaders are rendered in 2D as an UI overlay, they look off in 3D.

I really hope someone at ZOS will spent a few hours fixing this at some point. Better 3D support would be awesome!

Gwarok

Auric_ESO wrote: »

true full screen is in on the pts right now. In the 1.1 patch. Hopefully this week or next it will be pushed out

Thank The Nine Divines!!!

It's getting irritating tapping the shift key (especially when mounted) and getting a popup window (and taking me "out of game" /grrrrrrr!) from my system telling me I activated the Sticky Keys function.

SirAndy

You can turn off sticky keys ...

Ghanth

SirAndy wrote: »

My biggest complaint right now is the crosshair which is painted as a 2D UI element and in 3D it's right at the tip of your nose and very distracting.

Strange. Everything related to the UI displays in 2D and this is fine for me as remaining on my screen-plane at a fair distance of my face. Your UI elements are not affected by your convergence settings, right?

SirAndy wrote: »

Also, it seems some of the shaders are rendered in 2D as an UI overlay, they look off in 3D.

Are you talking about rain splashes on the ground?

awkwarrd

3D stereo! (ftw actually)

SirAndy

Ghanth wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

My biggest complaint right now is the crosshair which is painted as a 2D UI element and in 3D it's right at the tip of your nose and very distracting.

Strange. Everything related to the UI displays in 2D and this is fine for me as remaining on my screen-plane at a fair distance of my face. Your UI elements are not affected by your convergence settings, right?

SirAndy wrote: »

Also, it seems some of the shaders are rendered in 2D as an UI overlay, they look off in 3D.

Are you talking about rain splashes on the ground?

Convergence does effect UI elements as it also moves the 2D UI plane. I need to play with my settings a bit to see if i can get the crosshair further into the screen.

As far as shaders go, i noticed that some of the light/shadow effects on objects render "flat" (for the lack of a better word) in 3D.
Meaning, the effect appears to be applied after the world to screen matrix transformation.

Armitas

Any side effects for playing in 3d all day?

Asava

Just a head ache when your settings aren't quite right.

SirAndy

Armitas wrote: »

Any side effects for playing in 3d all day?

Besides me constantly "leaning over" because i somehow think i can peak around that corner?

pjwrwb17_ESO

What are the equipment requirements?

Ghanth

pjwrwb17_ESO wrote: »

What are the equipment requirements?

Any decent rig (that can play ESO maxed out in standart 2D mode) should be fine. Here's some detailled requiement (you will need at least):

• a recent graphic card with hdmi 1.4 out
• 3D graphic drivers (nvidia 3D vision / 3D tv play OR ati / tridef)
• a 3D monitor or 3D tv or 3D projector (usualy comes with their own synchronisation system and glasses)

then you'll have to follow theses steps to enable 3D in ESO (at least until full screen support that will likely come with next patch). Enjoy.

Ghanth

Armitas wrote: »

Any side effects for playing in 3d all day?

More than 2 years (around 1200 hours in Skyrim) i'm playing EXCLUSIVELY in 3D with no side effects at all. I just carefully set my depth and convergence settings to something natural for my eyes and feel comfortable with it. The only side effect is that i will never revert to 2D gaming anymore!

Zeeed

Well new version of TriDef is working guys !!!!
I have spent WHOLE WEEKEND playing eso in 3d and hit VR10. Looks so much better than wow in 3d.
11. I get 40-70fps on ultra no aa using power 3D when using normal 3D i dont get shadows ect and fps drops to 20-30 cpu limited yet again...

Ghanth +1 i must have around 100 DAYS PLAYED in wow in 3d. Plus all games i play in 3d for years now like: BF3 BF4 Deus EX Tomb raider South Park. Diablo 3+expansion. Games in 2D just look *** to me. BF3 in 3d DESTROYS BF4 win 2d hell even BF2 is better . Once You go 3D You will never come back.

Cant wait to buy Oculus rift or Sony VR helmet. ATM i got prescription glasses with adaptors for 3D. I was at opticians last week ( for real ) and since i wear glasses for gaming now my eye sight got better over last two years !!!!

Ghanth

SirAndy wrote: »

Convergence does effect UI elements as it also moves the 2D UI plane.

Are you using nvidia or tridef's crosshair? I don't.
Are you using an OculusRift ?
I'm using nvidia 337.50 and ESO UI (including crosshair) is 2D and are not affected by 3D depth and convergence settings.

SirAndy wrote: »

As far as shaders go, i noticed that some of the light/shadow effects on objects render "flat" (for the lack of a better word) in 3D.
Meaning, the effect appears to be applied after the world to screen matrix transformation.

Yes agree, i did mention that in first post. I hope your "technical words" can help ZOS fixing it.

Ghanth

Zeeed wrote: »

Well new version of TriDef is working guys !!!!
I have spent WHOLE WEEKEND playing eso in 3d and hit VR10. Looks so much better than wow in 3d.
11. I get 40-70fps on ultra no aa using power 3D when using normal 3D i dont get shadows ect and fps drops to 20-30 cpu limited yet again...

So you played PTS 1.1 fullscreen with TriDef in Power3D mode and everything looked perfect? I means no broken shadows, reflections, moons... ? everything ok?

Merlin13KAGL

SirAndy wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Any side effects for playing in 3d all day?

Besides me constantly "leaning over" because i somehow think i can peak around that corner?

Ha...ever take a pic of the screen with your phone and find yourself pulling it back, like you can somehow change the depth of field that way?!

Great little signs of an immersive game world.

(Had a buddy I play with making this repeating mumbling noise over the voice chat...after listening to it a couple times, he was repeating the 'grumble' the Bonesnap goblins do without even realizing why...;) )

SirAndy

Ghanth wrote: »

Are you using nvidia or tridef's crosshair? I don't.
Are you using an OculusRift ?
I'm using nvidia 337.50 and ESO UI (including crosshair) is 2D and are not affected by 3D depth and convergence settings.

Bone stock ESO, no addons, nVidia 3D Vision with nVidia glasses and Asus 27" 3D monitor, powered by dual GTX 780s.

Convergence does effect the UI plane. While it appears flat, it's still rendered in 3D using an orthographic projection matrix. Meaning, the UI plane is normally right about where your monitor screen is but can be moved closer/farther.

When you switch to 3D, that UI plane distance is OK for menus etc. but anything that is supposed to be part of the 3D world will appear much too close to you, like the standard ESO crosshair, especially when playing in 3rd person.
The crosshair is logically supposed to be near your character in the world, but because it's actually rendered in the UI plane it appears far removed from your character in 3rd person.

Philio

Auric_ESO wrote: »

true full screen is in on the pts right now. In the 1.1 patch. Hopefully this week or next it will be pushed out

They haven't removed the current "full screen" mode I hope?

I like being able to use my other screens without having to alt tab!

ryanmc_ESO

Long time 3d vision user here... so I attempted this on my 3d surround rig. My impressions.
Good

1. Can disable all shadows

2. Can disable DoF
Now for the bad, which the new full screen patch should fix some of it.

---

1. NPC dialog: different convergence values when speaking with NPC's, forced to run it at low convergence unless you want to constantly adjust values.

2. Crosshair - time old 3d user's bane. I will admit the gray style of skyrim does make it less but still remains an annoying reminder of 2d plane. Disabling this would be a huge step. Ideally rendering it at depth would be the holy grail. High convergence values make its annoyance less but soon as NPC dialog and make its back to step 1. At this point I find the UI to be a non-issue, I have become so used to stereo I can always navigate the UI. The only time I get into trouble is if the game attempts to dynamically adjust the UI based on depth values and push's it further into the screen depth with a 2d cursor, which is rare.

3. The game has all the classic MMO issues I've seen in the past with all the on-screen text rendered in 2d. Normally not an issue if not for problem 1 and can stay at a high convergence value.

4. Poor performance. Had to disable 3d surround and run of a single panel for the sake of testing for this. Its known SLI is not working, and I honestly don't expect amazing performance from a wow profile running 3d vision. This should be resolved soon (I hope) with next patch. Although I will say the game does look quite immersive in 3d surround barring the low fps due to lack of SLI.

5. Shadows - Need I say more? They are bad in 3d. Can disable em tho.

Ghanth

ryanmc_ESO wrote: »

1. Can disable all shadows

Yeah, some users find it better to disable the shadows for the moment. I personaly want those shadows as they are part of the graphical beauty and i just can't loose this. I have found a deph/convergence ratio that is minimizing the "broken effect" when in 3D so i can play with shadows on, slightly broken. Of course this is not a satisfying solution and this issue is discouraging many users from experiencing ESO in 3D. As a "long time" (veteran?) 3D user I can imagine how GREAT this game would look if they (ZOS) could just fix this!

ryanmc_ESO wrote: »

1. NPC dialog: different convergence values when speaking with NPC's, forced to run it at low convergence unless you want to constantly adjust values.

Totally agree with you on this: those "forced" NPC dialog's camera are disturbing. It really ruins immersion especialy while playing in 1st person. Here's a suggestion for this "issue", made some times ago (you can endorse if you like).

Cheers!

Ghanth

SirAndy wrote: »

When you switch to 3D, that UI plane distance is OK for menus etc. but anything that is supposed to be part of the 3D world will appear much too close to you, like the standard ESO crosshair, especially when playing in 3rd person.
The crosshair is logically supposed to be near your character in the world, but because it's actually rendered in the UI plane it appears far removed from your character in 3rd person.

Is all your 3D's depth behind your screen plane (nothing really pops out of it, towards you) ?
If so, you could try to increase convergence and lower depth so your 3rd person's character will be placed at the screen plane's depth near the crosshair.

Armitas

Zeeed wrote: »

Cant wait to buy Oculus rift or Sony VR helmet. ATM i got prescription glasses with adaptors for 3D. I was at opticians last week ( for real ) and since i wear glasses for gaming now my eye sight got better over last two years !!!!

@Zeeed What are these adapters? I also wear prescription glasses.

Zeeed

Ghanth i play LIFE CLIENT not PTS. Working like a dream on my setup. TriDef does not need true fullscreen mode to work it was working on beta but it was dark as hell due to some gama problems. But with new beta client they sorted that out and works AWESOME.

Armitas those are only for AMD gamers on passive monitors. Thats why i dont have NV cause for those u need contact lenses.

Ghanth

Zeeed wrote: »

Ghanth i play LIFE CLIENT not PTS. Working like a dream on my setup. TriDef does not need true fullscreen mode to work it was working on beta but it was dark as hell due to some gama problems. But with new beta client they sorted that out and works AWESOME.

Oh good news! Can you please tell us more about your setup and share some nice AWSOME S3D screenshots with us?

Zeeed

Thats how it looks more or less. And You can see my modified prescription glasses.

Zeeed

And photo


https://www.dropbox.com/s/tz305hn9de1smly/0002-ab.jpg

A/B but on screenshot you can see darkness bug but as You see its ok on normal gaming

My power pc is: 2500k@5ghz + 290x@1125/5500 watercooled 2133memmory@very tight timings.
When we had overclocking competition at OCUK i scored top sandybridge SuperPi score on this setup. All maxymized for bad coded single core applications aka Tridef 3D software

Ghanth

Thank you Zeeed for sharing.

Unfortunaly i ended my 14 days trial for TriDef so i can't give it a try. (cannot see your S3D photo too untill 3Dvision can manage this format)

Anyway, very GOOD NEWS for us nVidia users! An awsome S3D fix is coming soon on HelixBlog (greetings goes to mike_ar69).

it features:

• fixed shadows
• crossair pushed back in depth
• moons and clouds fix
• water reflection fix
• ...and much more...

Stay tuned!

here's the wip

SirAndy

Ghanth wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

When you switch to 3D, that UI plane distance is OK for menus etc. but anything that is supposed to be part of the 3D world will appear much too close to you, like the standard ESO crosshair, especially when playing in 3rd person.
The crosshair is logically supposed to be near your character in the world, but because it's actually rendered in the UI plane it appears far removed from your character in 3rd person.

Is all your 3D's depth behind your screen plane (nothing really pops out of it, towards you) ?
If so, you could try to increase convergence and lower depth so your 3rd person's character will be placed at the screen plane's depth near the crosshair.

@Ghanth
I played a bit more with convergence last night and here are the results:

- I can bump up convergence to the point where the UI plane is further into the screen than my character (in 3rd person view). That puts the crosshair in a good spot as it feels like it's between my character and the mobs, aiming at the mobs. The problem with that is that once i actually go into any menu, my character completely pops out of the screen and is now right in my face, making it hard to read the menus.

- If i tone down convergence, i can get a good compromise between character depth and UI depth but then the crosshair looks to be about halfway between me and my character and aiming at anything is really awkward.


It seems i can't find a setting where i'm satisfied with both. If ESO had an option to turn off the default crosshair, i could use the nVidia crosshair overlay.

Or better yet, have ZOS fix the rendering depth of the crosshair to be true 3D and not an UI element.

Ghanth

SirAndy you should give this ESO S3D HelixFix (W.I.P. from mike_ar69) a try as it comes with a crosshair's depth tweak.